Thank You! Always ctd at dawnstar and morthal. Took me hours of patching with no success. This solved it, it should really be incorporated into the main patch. Only stumbled upon this patch by chance and reddit after hours, but it is essential right now to make the mountain of mods and patches related to it work.
Leaving this as a reference in case it's helpful to anyone else. Thank you so much PercythePersimmon for your hard work!
This mod patch (Main 2 file) fixed my exterior cell crashes except for the one Winterhold; I fixed it by adjusting the College of Winterhold Quest Expansion and it's patch as follows:
" " " COTN - Winterhold.esp The Great City of Winterhold v4.esp College of Winterhold - Quest Expansion.esp TGC Winterhold - COW Quest Expansion Patch.esp Northern Roads - TGC Winterhold Patch.esp COTN Winterhold - Alternate Start Patch.esp (I like this one because you spawn on the inn's ground floor instead of the loft) The Great Cities of JK's North - Patch.esp All these city mods are at the very bottom of my load order, only above my bashed patch.
Disclaimer: I haven't actually had an opportunity to play the game yet and this is a brand new, experimental load order for me. I haven't played the College Quest Expansion mod yet. I can't say everything is perfect yet but this solved the immediate crashes when entering Winterhold's exterior cells.
I have such a problem with Falkreath and Helgen Reborn. It's about the stairs to the jarl's long house in The Great Cities and JK Skyrim, the space under the stairs disappears as you go there, I've seen this is a common problem. When you remove Helgen Reborn then everything is fine but it would be nice if there was a patch what fixes it
Oh? You're using Gardden's Helgen Reborn patch, right? When you say it's a common problem, do you mean you were still having issues with the original TGCoJKN patch or was this problem introduced in my Main 2?
I have a growing list of patches to-do, but I'll toss this on the list if you'd be okay with sharing some more information. It'd be helpful to know in what order you've placed the patches, whether this was an issue you'd experienced previously (if you've used Gardden's original patch in the past), and whether you're using Main 1 or Main 2 of this update.
It'll definitely take me a while to properly look into it, fair warning. But I'm happy to help when I can.
Hi my game was working well till today, as i started experiencing CTD going near or teleporting to Dawnstar. I havent changed anything in the Load Order and i find it quite strange since i visited dawnstar just yesterday without any porblems. Crash analyzer says it's an issue with an Object Reference but even if i start a new save game it keeps CTD near Dawnstar. Do you know any fixes? Thx
Hello! This isn't enough information for me to even determine whether or not I can help out here. I haven't been terribly active lately, but if you'd like to share your crash log, I'll try to take a look when I can. If you think it's related to your city mods, double check to ensure you're on the proper versions of all of the requisite mods and please share which patches you're using (you might've found one that needs an update or something).
This is the Crash log (on a new save): https://pastebin.com/79nQRWjD
I checked the mods and they have the same version as those reported on GCOJKN. The CTD doesnt subsist if i disable GCOJKN mods and leave only one of them ( ex: only COTN active, or JK skyrim)
I'm not terribly familiar with Trainwreck, but I'm not seeing enough info in that log specifically to determine the cause of your crashing.
Without any further info, I'd guess you might be using an additional TGCoJKN patch that needs to be updated. I have a small list of patches confirmed to be okay on the main description page. If you're using any from the OG page but that aren't on that list, let me know and I can check whether they need an update.
Thank you so much, i didnt tought about the Patches, i m using "Traversing the Ulvenwald" and "Skyrim landscape and water fixes" . I disabled the landscape and water fixes one and the game now is going smoothly without CTDs.
No problem and thanks for identifying a patch that needed an update! I have a copy that I updated for my own load order a few months ago, but I guess sharing it on Nexus somehow slipped my mind. I've uploaded it now if you want to check it out. Like the original, it mainly forwards ownership records, so it's no big deal if you choose to forgo the patch entirely. But the option is there if you want it!
Hi Percy, can I please ask you a couple questions?
Am I supposed to merge this with GGarden's Patch, or replace it?
Do you know what Lux orbis patches I need to select to go with this? The lux orbis FOMOD has zillions of combinations of patches for COTN-JK-GCo and I don't know which ones to choose. For most of the towns there is an option for all 3 together, but it's referencing someone elses patch apparently, and MO2 is yelling at me that I have missing masters, because I'm using your patch, not this mysterious other one that LUX orbis FOMOD thinks I should have.
Regarding your first question: Allow to overwrite just the esp. So, don't fully replace or get rid of the OG mod. Merging should be fine. If you're on MO2, just placing this below the OG would also work. Whatever is best for your organization method.
Regarding the second: Someone actually brought up Mo's Ongoing Patches sometime ago. Although I haven't been using them in my current game, I did look over those patches and can tell you that they should still work! I'd recommend those for your Lux needs. Install any additional files that those patches require as masters and you should be good to go!
AH so thats what Mos patches is. Mo left a link in the main TGCoJKN comments section but it just went to the TGCoJKN patches and not to Mo's. Thank you, that helped me piece it together. I was using too many city combination patches.
I also discovered that my Lux Orbis patches were loading after the main TGCoJKN patch and switching them fixed a lot of issues I was having with floating buildings and such.
And one more request: Gardden has File 3 - The Great Cities of JK's Skyrim (Base) in its old files, which does not require Cities of the North to be installed. For users of The Great Cities and JK's Skyrim, it simply has no alternative. But, as knowledgeable people say, it is either outdated or unfinished. Could you watch it?
That's gonna be a no from me -- at least, not any time soon. I presently don't have the time to update and maintain another city combination patch. Sorry about that!
You're a real champion for uploading this. I was worrying about having to remove TGCoJKN and some of the other mods like the COTN series, or else wressle with a huge number of patches for every city. No longer! I'll be testing it now (I am using a fair few other patches for COTN Dawnstar and Morthal so we'll see if they cause problems as well XD)
EDIT: This has saved Morthal and Dawnstar for me. No issues AT ALL other than some floating lanterns.. Now if you could only make it so it works with the latest (4.1) version of Winterhold haha. I'm still getting issues with it that I'm trying to fix.
Hey! So, this page is structured in a bit of an odd way. There are two separate main files. The one I call main 2 (and currently have version numbered at 0.2.xx) does make changes for the Great City of Winterhold v4.1. You can see the changelog if you're interested in specific changes. If you're on that version and still noticing issues, please let me know the specific problems you're seeing and I'll get right on fixing them!
While we're here, I'm actually interested in those floating lanterns, too. If you wouldn't mind sharing their refIDs (just open the console and click), I could double check whether that's an issue with this patch. If you have something like More Informative Console, and could also share the "Ref last changed in" information, we could start to use that to see whether it's some other patch needs an update. No pressure if you don't want that extra bit of work! But if it is the case that there's something needs an update or additional patch, I'm happy to help out.
Ahh, I didn't realise it did stuff with Winterhold as well. That's what I get for not reading the description properly lol.
Of course! I'd be happy to help. There's a couple of things like that, the floating lanterns are (I think) added by the Medieval Lanterns of Skyrim (I honestly forgot I had it installed haha), so it might not be this patche's fault, but I'll dobule check. I will try the next test I do without it, just to be sure. I could also try a test with the COTN or TGC patches, just to see if it'll work.
That being said, I am having major issues with Winterhold still. I'm not sure if I'm missing a required patch or something but, following the LO guide for TGCoJKN, Winterhold has a variety of weird bugs, it seems mostly that the buildings either from vanilla or COTN are still present and mixed in with the Great City structures. At its worst (using Winterhold 4.1) the cobbled streets have no ground beneath them and holes in the terrain where the player and NPCs can fall in, as well as a load of I've tried to play without TGC installed at all (still using your mod and all the other mods in TGCoJKN), and that actually worked, somehow, but I still had the buildings clipping into each other. Will update you in a minute once I've tested a new game
EDIT: So yeah, the issues were with the Floating Lanterns added by Medieval Lanterns of Skyrim. Still not able to get Winterhold to work though, I may have to switch to the other version and try to fix Winterhold myself.
The Winterhold stuff definitely sounds like load order issues, so that's not something I can fix on this end. Doubled buildings and no roads are big enough issues that I'm sure I would've noticed them in my own playthrough. I'd highly encourage trying out More Informative Console for a faster debugging tool. E.g., for the Medieval Lanterns of Skyrim problem, it would've just outright told you that that mod added those lanterns, so you would have known without having to disable and reboot the game entirely.
Obviously, I don't know your load order, but I assume that if you do end up trying to select one of those extra Winterhold structures with More Informative Console enabled, you'll likely find that "ref last changed in" isn't this patch. So, essentially, what's happening is this patch disables/moves those items/buildings only to have that record overwritten by another patch you have installed somewhere lower, so the items/buildings are re-enabled and moved again. You can also just check for conflicts in xEdit -- see which patches might be overwriting this one. Based on the very limited information I have, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if, in installing one of the big patch collections, you accidentally selected another city combo patch.
Not sure how you tried without TGC of Winterhold installed -- it's a master for this patch. So, best case scenario, your mod manager disables this patch entirely before launching. Worst case scenario, your game doesn't start.
I don't know whether any of that was useful to you. Let me know if you have any questions. Otherwise, best of luck in your CreationKit journey if you do decide to patch things up on your own. With the disclaimer that I can't provide any more debugging support at that point. Still happy to answer questions that pop up, though. I just can't debug a plugin I've never seen.
What I can do is check out Medieval Lanterns of Skyrim for you. It might take a minute -- I can't really settle in and fiddle around with CK until the weekend, but I think a BOS-ified version of that mod might be fun. No promises though -- I need to check that it's feasible and get permission.
Hey, yeah it was! Your tip with More Informative Console came in really handy! It turns out an old patch for JK's AIO (before I found TCGoJKN) was still active despite disabling the patches and removing the mod in question, and somehow hadn't been flagged as overwriting or being overwritten. It seems to all be fixed now, aside from Medieval Lanterns 2 (but that's no biggie). I never thought it was your patch causing the issue, but maybe one of the other mods, but I'm glad to say it's all been sorted.
As for launching the game without TGCW installed... I have no idea, but it did work. Maybe because there was still a Winterhold worldspace (COTN) to load so it just loaded it and incorrectly applied this patch to it?
A Medieval Lanterns patch would be great as well! If you want I'd be happy to hunt through the affected towns and cities to look for out-of-place lanterns so you don't have to do it yourself? Seeing as I'd already agreed to hunt down the out-of-place objects earlier, and I've got just a couple more tests to run to make sure my LO is perfect.
Glad you were able to find the culprit. If you want to drop any RefIDs for out-of-place lanterns, it'd speed up the patch-creation process. So definitely feel free to let me know what you find.
Sorry, can you rephrase that? I'm not sure what merged updates you're talking about. If you mean patches, as stated in the main description, most don't require updates and are okay to use directly from the original page. I listed a few that I explicitly checked because those were ones that I use in my own game. As a general rule, if the patch doesn't touch Morthal or Dawnstar, it's probably fine. But you can check them in xEdit to be safe. If you're uncomfortable doing this yourself, let me know which patches you'd like to use and I can confirm whether they're okay without an update or update them if needed.
Sorry my bad, that's what spending 10 hours of modding does to a brain I guess. Yea I meant the merged patches on the og mod page, thanks for clarifying though.
Would like to add that your patch works great, in combination with Mo's patches everything seems to be working, no blocked paths, or floating buildings, or crashes, thank!
Is there any chance anybody on here could help me out a bit, while I have been trying to mod for years I've been met with varying degrees of success and am only now really sitting down and hammering out a load order so I can get a full playthrough out of it. Getting these mods to work together is probably the single thing I am most excited for in this whole modding project and I'm more than happy to bend my load order around these mods to get them working, but I just can't seem to get this to run reliably and I'm guessing there are just various patches and/or bug fixes I'm missing. Also if I could get some reasonable expectations as to what it should look like when implemented correctly that would be great. Again any help is appreciated, I'm happy to provide extra details if they can be of help and I'm more than happy to be patient in working on this I've been wanting to do this for years, at this point I just want one fully moded playthrough under my belt before Elder Scrolls 6 comes out :D!
Unfortunately, I have a busy week ahead of me, so I might not be the most responsive, but I can try to answer questions whenever I'm online. For this patch specifically, the best place to start would be Gardden's instructions. They wrote very detailed notes on load order and compatibility, so start with a thorough read of that. If you need additional help, please share the specific issues you're encountering and we can try to work them out together.
So I've gotten most things working, but the new Jarl's Castle in Falkreath is largely not rendering from behind, the front still appears, but when I went inside, a large part of the inside is also very screwed up. Also...Winterhold is a complete mess, I don't really know where to start. As far as I can tell I followed the load order posted on the patch's main mod page, I made sure to get all the required (as well as Mo's ongoing for good measure) any of the mods I have that on that list I made sure they are in the proper order. If you have any advice on where I can find help or tips on these issues it would be greatly appreciated!
Okay. That's a start. Would you mind sharing which versions of all of the requisite mods your using as well as which version of this update patch you have? Everything I have labelled 0.2+ was done specifically for TGC Winterhold v4.1. The 0.1 version of the file will have some minor issues with TGC Winterhold v4.1 (as I highlighted in the description), but even that shouldn't be a complete mess -- at least not one that's really obviously visible on the user end. A few blocked doors, floating icicles, and some very confused guards, but generally issues that one has to actually be looking for to see.
Can we clarify some terms here? By "screwed up" and "complete mess" do you mean that you're dealing with some things that are out of place? Like, things are potentially clipping through each other or they're floating? If that's the case, I'd fire up xEdit to confirm your specific patches are in the proper order and to ensure they're not being overridden by anything later in your LO. You might want to grab More Informative Console so you can get more info in-game. I kind of suspect that you'll find it's just one or two plugins that need to be moved to get things to just fall into place. And again, just to double check, you've made sure you haven't accidentally doubled-up on city combination patches, right?
I figured it out and it was honestly extremely embarrassing, but I'll post it here for the benefit of anyone who finds themselves in my situation. I was begin careful about the arrangement of my mods in MO2, but I was actually double checking the load order of my plugins in the plugin tab, turns out LOOT was loading them in the wrong order, but I had made the stupid assumption it would be matching up with the order of my Modlist, thanks for the tips, and if anybody else ends up here searching for the answer double check your plugins tab. I rearranged the plugins to match the proper load order and locked them so loot doesn't mess with them. Thanks again for the help, and for maintaining this awesome patch while the primary author is away, these cities are awesome and I can't wait to start my playthrough!
48 comments
Always ctd at dawnstar and morthal. Took me hours of patching with no success. This solved it, it should really be incorporated into the main patch. Only stumbled upon this patch by chance and reddit after hours, but it is essential right now to make the mountain of mods and patches related to it work.
This mod patch (Main 2 file) fixed my exterior cell crashes except for the one Winterhold; I fixed it by adjusting the College of Winterhold Quest Expansion and it's patch as follows:
" " "
COTN - Winterhold.esp
The Great City of Winterhold v4.esp
College of Winterhold - Quest Expansion.esp
TGC Winterhold - COW Quest Expansion Patch.esp
Northern Roads - TGC Winterhold Patch.esp
COTN Winterhold - Alternate Start Patch.esp (I like this one because you spawn on the inn's ground floor instead of the loft)
The Great Cities of JK's North - Patch.esp
All these city mods are at the very bottom of my load order, only above my bashed patch.
Disclaimer: I haven't actually had an opportunity to play the game yet and this is a brand new, experimental load order for me. I haven't played the College Quest Expansion mod yet. I can't say everything is perfect yet but this solved the immediate crashes when entering Winterhold's exterior cells.
I have a growing list of patches to-do, but I'll toss this on the list if you'd be okay with sharing some more information. It'd be helpful to know in what order you've placed the patches, whether this was an issue you'd experienced previously (if you've used Gardden's original patch in the past), and whether you're using Main 1 or Main 2 of this update.
It'll definitely take me a while to properly look into it, fair warning. But I'm happy to help when I can.
Crash analyzer says it's an issue with an Object Reference but even if i start a new save game it keeps CTD near Dawnstar.
Do you know any fixes?
Thx
https://pastebin.com/79nQRWjD
I checked the mods and they have the same version as those reported on GCOJKN.
The CTD doesnt subsist if i disable GCOJKN mods and leave only one of them ( ex: only COTN active, or JK skyrim)
Without any further info, I'd guess you might be using an additional TGCoJKN patch that needs to be updated. I have a small list of patches confirmed to be okay on the main description page. If you're using any from the OG page but that aren't on that list, let me know and I can check whether they need an update.
Am I supposed to merge this with GGarden's Patch, or replace it?
Do you know what Lux orbis patches I need to select to go with this? The lux orbis FOMOD has zillions of combinations of patches for COTN-JK-GCo and I don't know which ones to choose. For most of the towns there is an option for all 3 together, but it's referencing someone elses patch apparently, and MO2 is yelling at me that I have missing masters, because I'm using your patch, not this mysterious other one that LUX orbis FOMOD thinks I should have.
Regarding your first question: Allow to overwrite just the esp. So, don't fully replace or get rid of the OG mod. Merging should be fine. If you're on MO2, just placing this below the OG would also work. Whatever is best for your organization method.
Regarding the second: Someone actually brought up Mo's Ongoing Patches sometime ago. Although I haven't been using them in my current game, I did look over those patches and can tell you that they should still work! I'd recommend those for your Lux needs. Install any additional files that those patches require as masters and you should be good to go!
I also discovered that my Lux Orbis patches were loading after the main TGCoJKN patch and switching them fixed a lot of issues I was having with floating buildings and such.
And thanks for these updates.
No longer!
I'll be testing it now (I am using a fair few other patches for COTN Dawnstar and Morthal so we'll see if they cause problems as well XD)
EDIT: This has saved Morthal and Dawnstar for me. No issues AT ALL other than some floating lanterns.. Now if you could only make it so it works with the latest (4.1) version of Winterhold haha. I'm still getting issues with it that I'm trying to fix.
While we're here, I'm actually interested in those floating lanterns, too. If you wouldn't mind sharing their refIDs (just open the console and click), I could double check whether that's an issue with this patch. If you have something like More Informative Console, and could also share the "Ref last changed in" information, we could start to use that to see whether it's some other patch needs an update. No pressure if you don't want that extra bit of work! But if it is the case that there's something needs an update or additional patch, I'm happy to help out.
Of course! I'd be happy to help. There's a couple of things like that, the floating lanterns are (I think) added by the Medieval Lanterns of Skyrim (I honestly forgot I had it installed haha), so it might not be this patche's fault, but I'll dobule check. I will try the next test I do without it, just to be sure. I could also try a test with the COTN or TGC patches, just to see if it'll work.
That being said, I am having major issues with Winterhold still. I'm not sure if I'm missing a required patch or something but, following the LO guide for TGCoJKN, Winterhold has a variety of weird bugs, it seems mostly that the buildings either from vanilla or COTN are still present and mixed in with the Great City structures. At its worst (using Winterhold 4.1) the cobbled streets have no ground beneath them and holes in the terrain where the player and NPCs can fall in, as well as a load of
I've tried to play without TGC installed at all (still using your mod and all the other mods in TGCoJKN), and that actually worked, somehow, but I still had the buildings clipping into each other.
Will update you in a minute once I've tested a new game
EDIT:
So yeah, the issues were with the Floating Lanterns added by Medieval Lanterns of Skyrim. Still not able to get Winterhold to work though, I may have to switch to the other version and try to fix Winterhold myself.
Obviously, I don't know your load order, but I assume that if you do end up trying to select one of those extra Winterhold structures with More Informative Console enabled, you'll likely find that "ref last changed in" isn't this patch. So, essentially, what's happening is this patch disables/moves those items/buildings only to have that record overwritten by another patch you have installed somewhere lower, so the items/buildings are re-enabled and moved again. You can also just check for conflicts in xEdit -- see which patches might be overwriting this one. Based on the very limited information I have, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if, in installing one of the big patch collections, you accidentally selected another city combo patch.
Not sure how you tried without TGC of Winterhold installed -- it's a master for this patch. So, best case scenario, your mod manager disables this patch entirely before launching. Worst case scenario, your game doesn't start.
I don't know whether any of that was useful to you. Let me know if you have any questions. Otherwise, best of luck in your CreationKit journey if you do decide to patch things up on your own. With the disclaimer that I can't provide any more debugging support at that point. Still happy to answer questions that pop up, though. I just can't debug a plugin I've never seen.
What I can do is check out Medieval Lanterns of Skyrim for you. It might take a minute -- I can't really settle in and fiddle around with CK until the weekend, but I think a BOS-ified version of that mod might be fun. No promises though -- I need to check that it's feasible and get permission.
As for launching the game without TGCW installed... I have no idea, but it did work. Maybe because there was still a Winterhold worldspace (COTN) to load so it just loaded it and incorrectly applied this patch to it?
A Medieval Lanterns patch would be great as well! If you want I'd be happy to hunt through the affected towns and cities to look for out-of-place lanterns so you don't have to do it yourself? Seeing as I'd already agreed to hunt down the out-of-place objects earlier, and I've got just a couple more tests to run to make sure my LO is perfect.
Would like to add that your patch works great, in combination with Mo's patches everything seems to be working, no blocked paths, or floating buildings, or crashes, thank!
Can we clarify some terms here? By "screwed up" and "complete mess" do you mean that you're dealing with some things that are out of place? Like, things are potentially clipping through each other or they're floating? If that's the case, I'd fire up xEdit to confirm your specific patches are in the proper order and to ensure they're not being overridden by anything later in your LO. You might want to grab More Informative Console so you can get more info in-game. I kind of suspect that you'll find it's just one or two plugins that need to be moved to get things to just fall into place. And again, just to double check, you've made sure you haven't accidentally doubled-up on city combination patches, right?