One question, I was using one of the older Ownership overhauls, but it clashes with some of my mods as it moves some containers, specially so far that I am seeing on Balmora, will this do the same?
Edit: loaded the ESM and wow, all of the wrongly replaced containers in Balmora are now aligned to original values, ty much for this my friend!
What do you guys use as storage before player owned houses? I'd rather not confine myself to a cave and stay in-town to store things but there doesn't seem to be any options aside from the ground
I'm using Openmw. The mod works, but it doesn't show the text "owned". I'm using esm and compatible anti-cheese mod. Load order should be fine. Please help!
EDIT: Got it to work. Sorry, forgot to apply the option in the Openmw launcher....
I would suggest disowning all the flora_mucksponge and the muck shovels which are required if using graphic herbalism in Gnisis, otherwise it makes the quest for the imperial cult to retrieve muck hard for nothing, it's just muck. And for the shovels you can't buy them anywhere so if you can't just take them to use them for the muck, it's a loss.
Without patching this there is a way to do it : there is a 2nd patch of muck sponges just after the main one from gnisis, just go from the main one in direction of the river, you should see the 2nd one down there soon, it's still owned, but there are no guards patrolling around, and the other problem : no shovel !!! I saw there are a few muck sponges which are supposed to be owned by the imperial cult faction, but I don't know where they are ! (without the patch I suggest adding at least the shovel with the console, eventually the muck too because this quest is supposed to be easy, you don't have to find crazy ideas to be able just to get some muck... !).
I looked into it, and those mucksponge plants are faction owned by the imperial cult, at the lowest rank, so if you're on the quest you can harvest them without stealing. (The ones further away are owned outright.) And I can confirm I can harvest muck without a shovel with GH.
oh those mods aren't actually required by sig's version of MAC. nexus doesn't let you specify requirements per-file, so it's just that those mods are required by some file on that page, but not that one.
it's been a long time since i looked at the original version, but IIRC it makes some ownership related edits that conflict with this mod. that wouldn't be a huge deal though.
The mod is great in the general sense, but I take specific exception to the following items being listed as "owned" in Seyda Neen in the Census and Excise office:
1. The dagger stuck into the table 2. The crab meat on the plate 3. The bottle of flin ----- 4. The lockpick 5. The bedroll in the basement 6. silver candlestick
Ownership is a messy thing Morrowind. As you surely know, once you steal something (like that dagger or crab meat), every single item of that same type that you pick up, will be marked as "stolen" and belonging to the first npc/faction you stole it from... forever. Anything so marked then gets confiscated by the guards upon your arrest (barring mods/exploits).
This means that if some noob player accidentally nicks a bowl and gets "caught" by the guards, your mod will make them lose their "starter weapon" (no noob is picking the lock on the evidence chest)...the one the game is obviously *designed* to provide to the player because there's literally a script that plays when you walk into the room that says roughly "pick up that dagger and equip it."
And that's my argument with these 6 items...they are all tagged with noob popups that offer tutorial information. I admit that the devs got lazy and left gobs of containers all over umpteen towns and houses that should bloody well be owned by ... someone ... but these five items are surrounded by owned things and clearly meant not to be owned so that even someone playing with TFH enabled (in lieu of mods/patches that show ownership) wouldn't be afraid to pick them up.
This has been my nitpicky moment of the month. You still make awesome mods :)
You have a point, especially regarding the dagger, which the game will intrusively instruct you to pick up (for the other items the popup only appears if you pick it up in the first place). Although with the dagger in particular it's not so bad because that dagger is a unique item (not the same as the other iron daggers in the game).
I think the real problem is how brokenly the game handles stolen merchandise, and the real solution is some MWSE-lua mod overhauling/fixing it.
I really do like the mod, and I did endorse it. I was just feeling nit-picky.
I can't imagine what kinds of work it would be to overhaul how the game handles stolen things. I could understand how a guard would know you'd stolen something if you *just* took it. Like..in my mind, I imagine all those crates in Balmora have Customs Manifests on file, and that they can see the open lid, and your full pockets, and compare your loot to the crate manifest, and now it's obvious you stole those Kwama eggs. I mean, who carries 20 eggs in their pockets except crazy alchemists...and crazier thieves? ;)
But I never could figure out how a guard in Vivec knew my marshmerrow was stolen from some crate in Ald'run six months ago....
I'd love to get into making mods like this, but I don't even know where to *start* in really understanding lua with respect to Morrowind (or anything else really). Best I ever did was to program turtle robots to dig and build walls for me in Minecraft.
Reading existing mods' code can help a lot in figuring out how MWSE-lua works. Also check out the documentation. If you see something that gives you a cool idea, try to make your idea happen. Ask on the MMC Discord for help. Start small.
Very cool, thanks. I have very basic understanding of what appears to be the object oriented structure of lua in general (though...last time I *seriously* sat down and tried to learn programming, Pascal was still a quite marketable language to learn *blush*), but I have always had a hard time understanding where people go to get the data specific to anything they want to do (like alter Morrowind).
I actually got enough into Skyrim some years ago to make one...very small...tiny little (non-lua) color change mod, which I published. But since it was messing with a spell effect, I had to learn a bit more than "here's a new mesh/texture." Most of my ideas revolve around trying to fix some mods that I'd like to use but that don't currently work, and appear to have been abandoned.
For the Fyr owned items, it looks like by setting ownership over the chests and their contents, all of the items found during the treasure hunt still is owned by Fyr after picking them up. So when you commit any crime and get caught by the guards, those items get taken. Would it be possible to set the chests of keys to ownership, but leave the rest of the items in those containers as unowned?
I love this mod, but hate that legendary items from that treasure hunt get taken by guards even when minor crimes are committed.
Yeah that's an unfortunate consequence of these changes. Fyr dares you to rip him off, but you're still ripping him off, which means the loot can get taken by guards later as stolen goods.
The way the game handles this is pretty broken in general. Guards shouldn't have a way to instantly tell which items are stolen and which aren't.
Anyway, it would be possible to make the key chests owned but the artifact chests/containers unowned, but that seems inconsistent to me. Also it seems like it would incentivize just picking the locks of the artifact containers rather than solving the key puzzle (while I use a mod that outright forces you to solve the puzzle if you want the artifacts).
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Edit: loaded the ESM and wow, all of the wrongly replaced containers in Balmora are now aligned to original values, ty much for this my friend!
EDIT: Got it to work. Sorry, forgot to apply the option in the Openmw launcher....
Without patching this there is a way to do it : there is a 2nd patch of muck sponges just after the main one from gnisis, just go from the main one in direction of the river, you should see the 2nd one down there soon, it's still owned, but there are no guards patrolling around, and the other problem : no shovel !!! I saw there are a few muck sponges which are supposed to be owned by the imperial cult faction, but I don't know where they are ! (without the patch I suggest adding at least the shovel with the console, eventually the muck too because this quest is supposed to be easy, you don't have to find crazy ideas to be able just to get some muck... !).
But I'll look into the muck issue. Ingredients that the cult specifically sends you to take should be faction owned so you can do that.
*groans*
Well done!
- Better Bodies ZWchevron_righ
- Glass Domes of Vivec - Moonrain Editionchevron_righ
- No-Frills Closed Molag Marchevron_righ
- No-Frills Open Vivecchevron_rig
But I don't want to install these mods.Therefore my question:
What happens when I use your mod with Morrowind Anti-Cheese vanilla?
there are actually at least three different versions of MAC, the original, sig's OO compatible version, and sig's BTBGI compatible version (which is also OO compatible).
it's been a long time since i looked at the original version, but IIRC it makes some ownership related edits that conflict with this mod. that wouldn't be a huge deal though.
K, will trust your word then, fingers crossed. ;)
Edit:
Well strange, Sig's esp is smaller then the vanilla esp. Hmmm...
1. The dagger stuck into the table
2. The crab meat on the plate
3. The bottle of flin
-----
4. The lockpick
5. The bedroll in the basement
6. silver candlestick
Ownership is a messy thing Morrowind. As you surely know, once you steal something (like that dagger or crab meat), every single item of that same type that you pick up, will be marked as "stolen" and belonging to the first npc/faction you stole it from... forever. Anything so marked then gets confiscated by the guards upon your arrest (barring mods/exploits).
This means that if some noob player accidentally nicks a bowl and gets "caught" by the guards, your mod will make them lose their "starter weapon" (no noob is picking the lock on the evidence chest)...the one the game is obviously *designed* to provide to the player because there's literally a script that plays when you walk into the room that says roughly "pick up that dagger and equip it."
And that's my argument with these 6 items...they are all tagged with noob popups that offer tutorial information. I admit that the devs got lazy and left gobs of containers all over umpteen towns and houses that should bloody well be owned by ... someone ... but these five items are surrounded by owned things and clearly meant not to be owned so that even someone playing with TFH enabled (in lieu of mods/patches that show ownership) wouldn't be afraid to pick them up.
This has been my nitpicky moment of the month.
You still make awesome mods :)
I think the real problem is how brokenly the game handles stolen merchandise, and the real solution is some MWSE-lua mod overhauling/fixing it.
I was just feeling nit-picky.
I can't imagine what kinds of work it would be to overhaul how the game handles stolen things. I could understand how a guard would know you'd stolen something if you *just* took it. Like..in my mind, I imagine all those crates in Balmora have Customs Manifests on file, and that they can see the open lid, and your full pockets, and compare your loot to the crate manifest, and now it's obvious you stole those Kwama eggs. I mean, who carries 20 eggs in their pockets except crazy alchemists...and crazier thieves? ;)
But I never could figure out how a guard in Vivec knew my marshmerrow was stolen from some crate in Ald'run six months ago....
I'd love to get into making mods like this, but I don't even know where to *start* in really understanding lua with respect to Morrowind (or anything else really). Best I ever did was to program turtle robots to dig and build walls for me in Minecraft.
I have very basic understanding of what appears to be the object oriented structure of lua in general (though...last time I *seriously* sat down and tried to learn programming, Pascal was still a quite marketable language to learn *blush*), but I have always had a hard time understanding where people go to get the data specific to anything they want to do (like alter Morrowind).
I actually got enough into Skyrim some years ago to make one...very small...tiny little (non-lua) color change mod, which I published. But since it was messing with a spell effect, I had to learn a bit more than "here's a new mesh/texture." Most of my ideas revolve around trying to fix some mods that I'd like to use but that don't currently work, and appear to have been abandoned.
I love this mod, but hate that legendary items from that treasure hunt get taken by guards even when minor crimes are committed.
The way the game handles this is pretty broken in general. Guards shouldn't have a way to instantly tell which items are stolen and which aren't.
Anyway, it would be possible to make the key chests owned but the artifact chests/containers unowned, but that seems inconsistent to me. Also it seems like it would incentivize just picking the locks of the artifact containers rather than solving the key puzzle (while I use a mod that outright forces you to solve the puzzle if you want the artifacts).