Warning! Do not run multiple navmesh mods in the same location/cells! If two mods/plugins affect the same cell there is a good chance it will cause significant problems! Total pathing failure or CTDs if you are very unlucky! FAQ: Will you be doing all the settlements? and if so can you do the XYZ settlement next plz?
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Yes, I will be doing all of them. Your vote for next settlement will be noted, and I will take that in consideration for whatever the next navmesh update is.
The navmeshed versions of your settlements mods are separate from the deep-cleaned version right?
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They are separate, indeed. I am keeping navmeshed versions available as standalone versions. Deep Clean Settlement mod/ Collection allows for individual installation via DL or selection from the fomod installer. So you can chose if you do or do not want to use a DC settlement mod.
Are you including these navmesh updates in your Deep Clean version?
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All the navmesh updates are getting added to the DCnR features as well. Which is convenient for both playstyles (the messy vanilla original with better navmeshing or the deep cleaned-up and better navmeshing).
Is this navmesh update mod compatible with SS2, SS1 or ?
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SS1 & SS2? Absolutely Yes. These navmesh fixes were requested by an SS2 team member named Yasigan who runs the SS2 city competitions as to compete they can only use vanilla settlements.
My Deep Clean settlements are also SS2 compatible, and get these updated navmeshes.
For all other mods, mostly yes. If a mod updates terrain significantly, or changes navmesh for the settlements than no, otherwise the answer is yes.
At this time I only know of one other modder who even does just navmesh updates, and they have 2. The might be a handful of other modders that have re-navmeshing in their settlement mods, but I doubt it would be more than a 2-3. RealJenn (who made the tutorial video I learned from to do these) has the Simple Clean series for example that updated navmesh, but modifies the terrain and structures in the settlements so much it would not be compatible with these updated navmesh mods (meant for vanilla settlements) or my Deep Clean series, which modifies the terrain only a little bit. So what problems did you fix? I'm interested but I am not sure what issues are there.
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Stolen from Glitchfinder's JP Navmesh Update: Ever found yourself building at most settlements, only to realize the settlers weren't the sharpest tools in the shed? Trying to walk through benches, running around the settlement rather than through it, and generally just not really understanding where they could walk? Turns out most settlements need some real work.
The main issues are precuts, areas missing navmesh, navmesh below terrain and navmesh poorly shaped.
Precuts: objects that can be scrapped or moved get a special navmesh under them to prevent NPCs from moving thru them, this is called "pre-cut". When you scrap or move those objects the navmesh under them opens up for NPCs. Most precuts in the game were autogenerated and have poor shapes creating delays to NPCs navigating the space. Also most exterior pre-cuts where much larger than the objects they were under to the point where large sections of settlements would be un-navigable by NPCs, until those trees, cars, etc were scrapped. Lastly, a lot of objects that are scrapable did not get precuts at all.
Areas missing Navmesh: A large variety of objects/sections are missing or deliberately did not get navmeshed, these include: Large rocks/Cliffs, small/low rocks, hill edges, ramping terrain, fallen logs, junk or trash piles that are low to the ground, so on. When remeshing these I do not do objects with more than an apparent 30 degree ramp up, or large protruding objects BUT honestly there is no reason that low flat logs parallel to the ground should not be navigable. Also many of the high to low sections like cliffs and hill edges can get something called an Edge Portals, which I call jump-downs (as that is what the NPCs do when they use them), so I mesh those cliff/hill edges so the NPCs will actually use them. Many of the hill edges were setup that only flyers would use them, as far as I know flyers will use those Edge Portals to go up.
Navmesh below terrain: A large part of the navmesh in most exterior cells is below the terrain itself. Sometimes it is not very much and the pathing AI can handle it, other times its a massive difference and the AI fails badly. Rocky cliff areas have the worst of this I have seen so far with mesh several feet below the surface, but if you look at a before image (I try to post a before and after for each of these), you will notice massive sections of road and ground that are below the red triangles that make up the navmesh.
Navmesh poorly shaped: So the autogenerated navmesh (especially the precuts) make weird elongated shapes that the NPCs will hesitate or act drunk or spin around using. While the transition sections thru doorways and changes in elevation can have narrow triangles (I do this myself) these are sections that the mesh must use the narrow triangles. Autogen mesh with create primary paths where it is not uncommon to have an elongated triangle 1/3rd the length of a cell (roughly 100 feet) and less than a foot wide, that is a triangle with dimensions 100 x 100 x 1... and it is normal to have several triangles like this stacked!
Optional Files - Garage/Barn Floor fix - in base game the floor in the garage of Coastal Cottage was missing a property that prevented objects from placing correctly on it, causing them to sinking into it. The plugin will fix this issue, by putting in the one missing record to static object record.
Optional file does not affect mesh or Precombines/Previs
Hi, I've installed your navmesh updates and after I played in Coastal Cottage I'm not sure if it's entirely working as intended. I don't remember if so much stuff in the vanilla settlement is unscrappable, I remember a lot of debris stay and even a couch on a pile of detritus, but I also cannot delete some of the trees which I don't remember to be normal. Also, the small barn with the workshop is partially blocked by a big invisible wall/block/idk inside of it - is this something to do with your optional patch for that area? Anyway, thanks for your time and work.
Your recent navmesh mods are music to my ears, especially since I've been putting off going back to some of them because of the stupid NPCs. I'm not using any mods that modify cells, I mostly mod for items / NPC immersion. Would it be safe to add a navmesh fix mid game?
Can we use the sinking floor patch with the full collection mod?
Edit. It seems it isn't, if I load the patch after the Coastal Cottage from the collection, mostly everything disappear (walls, floors, etc), and loading before does not make anything of course.
I understand it is not been included in the full collection yet (no problem, just to make sure).
Not going to have time. It's already very time consuming to make the vanilla version and also integrate them into my Deep Clean and Remodel mods. After this one still have like 18 more settlements left.
Did you check that mod to see if it has updated navmesh?
I think its just really time consuming and they just did an auto-script that built it and hand fixed a few spots when it was obvious there were issues.
In Sanc, in several homes there is holes in the mesh and they put rugs over them. It works as a fix but just very rushed in the navmesh department.
15 comments
FAQ:
Will you be doing all the settlements? and if so can you do the XYZ settlement next plz?
Yes, I will be doing all of them. Your vote for next settlement will be noted, and I will take that in consideration for whatever the next navmesh update is.
The navmeshed versions of your settlements mods are separate from the deep-cleaned version right?
They are separate, indeed. I am keeping navmeshed versions available as standalone versions. Deep Clean Settlement mod/ Collection allows for individual installation via DL or selection from the fomod installer. So you can chose if you do or do not want to use a DC settlement mod.
Are you including these navmesh updates in your Deep Clean version?
All the navmesh updates are getting added to the DCnR features as well. Which is convenient for both playstyles (the messy vanilla original with better navmeshing or the deep cleaned-up and better navmeshing).
Is this navmesh update mod compatible with SS2, SS1 or ?
SS1 & SS2? Absolutely Yes. These navmesh fixes were requested by an SS2 team member named Yasigan who runs the SS2 city competitions as to compete they can only use vanilla settlements.
My Deep Clean settlements are also SS2 compatible, and get these updated navmeshes.
For all other mods, mostly yes. If a mod updates terrain significantly, or changes navmesh for the settlements than no, otherwise the answer is yes.
At this time I only know of one other modder who even does just navmesh updates, and they have 2. The might be a handful of other modders that have re-navmeshing in their settlement mods, but I doubt it would be more than a 2-3. RealJenn (who made the tutorial video I learned from to do these) has the Simple Clean series for example that updated navmesh, but modifies the terrain and structures in the settlements so much it would not be compatible with these updated navmesh mods (meant for vanilla settlements) or my Deep Clean series, which modifies the terrain only a little bit.
So what problems did you fix? I'm interested but I am not sure what issues are there.
Ever found yourself building at most settlements, only to realize the settlers weren't the sharpest tools in the shed? Trying to walk through benches, running around the settlement rather than through it, and generally just not really understanding where they could walk? Turns out most settlements need some real work.
The main issues are precuts, areas missing navmesh, navmesh below terrain and navmesh poorly shaped.
Precuts: objects that can be scrapped or moved get a special navmesh under them to prevent NPCs from moving thru them, this is called "pre-cut". When you scrap or move those objects the navmesh under them opens up for NPCs. Most precuts in the game were autogenerated and have poor shapes creating delays to NPCs navigating the space. Also most exterior pre-cuts where much larger than the objects they were under to the point where large sections of settlements would be un-navigable by NPCs, until those trees, cars, etc were scrapped. Lastly, a lot of objects that are scrapable did not get precuts at all.
Areas missing Navmesh: A large variety of objects/sections are missing or deliberately did not get navmeshed, these include: Large rocks/Cliffs, small/low rocks, hill edges, ramping terrain, fallen logs, junk or trash piles that are low to the ground, so on. When remeshing these I do not do objects with more than an apparent 30 degree ramp up, or large protruding objects BUT honestly there is no reason that low flat logs parallel to the ground should not be navigable. Also many of the high to low sections like cliffs and hill edges can get something called an Edge Portals, which I call jump-downs (as that is what the NPCs do when they use them), so I mesh those cliff/hill edges so the NPCs will actually use them. Many of the hill edges were setup that only flyers would use them, as far as I know flyers will use those Edge Portals to go up.
Navmesh below terrain: A large part of the navmesh in most exterior cells is below the terrain itself. Sometimes it is not very much and the pathing AI can handle it, other times its a massive difference and the AI fails badly. Rocky cliff areas have the worst of this I have seen so far with mesh several feet below the surface, but if you look at a before image (I try to post a before and after for each of these), you will notice massive sections of road and ground that are below the red triangles that make up the navmesh.
Navmesh poorly shaped: So the autogenerated navmesh (especially the precuts) make weird elongated shapes that the NPCs will hesitate or act drunk or spin around using. While the transition sections thru doorways and changes in elevation can have narrow triangles (I do this myself) these are sections that the mesh must use the narrow triangles. Autogen mesh with create primary paths where it is not uncommon to have an elongated triangle 1/3rd the length of a cell (roughly 100 feet) and less than a foot wide, that is a triangle with dimensions 100 x 100 x 1... and it is normal to have several triangles like this stacked!
Optional file does not affect mesh or Precombines/Previs
Both ESL or ESP - ESL Flagged versions available.
Thanks again - you're doing the great work here!
Can we use the sinking floor patch with the full collection mod?
Edit. It seems it isn't, if I load the patch after the Coastal Cottage from the collection, mostly everything disappear (walls, floors, etc), and loading before does not make anything of course.
I understand it is not been included in the full collection yet (no problem, just to make sure).
Thanks.
I just integrated the navmesh updates into Coastal Cottage DCnR.
See that mod for a full list of the other updates it gets.
Did you check that mod to see if it has updated navmesh?
I would not recommend using that mod but instead go with DCnR or Clean and Simple (all of the C&S have navmesh updates, but lack PnP).
Without the mesh update that house will not be navigable by any enemy or friendly NPCs.
I am following with great interest!
In Sanc, in several homes there is holes in the mesh and they put rugs over them. It works as a fix but just very rushed in the navmesh department.
Several objects were missing the mesh, some were the kind of objects you can scrap and should be able to walk thru there:
- All the little wooden fence/sand things (9-11 of them)
- Boat in garage
- The rocks heading down to the road had almost no mesh
- Several wooden Boxes
Both the front roof and floor of the upstairs did not have jump down mechnics.The layout/design of mesh going from broken house into hole was poorly implemented.
Mesh on the far north side was all messed up with a large mesh section with float/fly only critters typing.