First of all...nice effort for your first attempt at location modding.... From what i read in your description you have a lot of questions of how some things are or work in the game... May i suggest watching a few tutorials...on the creation kit...(there are many on youtube...)
A big mistake you made by "cleaning up" will cause performance issues to many users or issues like stuff flickering/appearing/disappearing ,old objects like trash/debris are still there etc... This is because you broke what we call the precombined meshes and previs for many cells . Mods that repair previs or have regenerated new data for locations close to yours will also cause issues and simply swapping load order wont fix the issue if your locations dont have their own data... In order to fix this if people start to complain is to regenerate precombined meshed and previs for all the cells you edited...(in your case its a bit complicated since you went and did multiple locations at once...that are "tied" to a single esp. Hence you have to move from location to location in the ck and generate data for each location and then pack up all that data into archives..(will make a big file)... Objects that arent detected via workshop to be moved or scrapped dont have a "recipe" because they arent meant to be moved or removed (precombined objects)....
Buildings that are hollow are what we call "shells" and those werent meant to be used but are mostly set dressing or just part of the visuals... If you want them usable you have to replace the walls with "full" versions and ofc add floors etc...BUT you also have to edit the navmesh so npc's can use them... The visual border is one of this game's idiotic ideas when they could have simply made the primitive or build area box visible in workshop mode and the thing they used cant be reshaped... So all you can do is duplicate/rename and resize a similar border from another location that matches your build area shape.
Suggestions... Dont do multiple locations in one mod in the future because you make it harder on yourself to work with...(example the previs issue).. Imagine when i do a location i sometimes have to redo the data over and over if an issue with an object shows up that wont allow proper generation of the previs/precombines...now imagine you that will have to deal with 5 locations to do the same... Learn to navmesh.... VERY essential if you move/remove/add objects that have collision and that the vanilla navmesh was built on..(imagine removing a wall or building that wasnt usable ....The vanilla navmesh was made so NPC's would go around it.. Hence its not a valid area for them to use if you add a real building to that spot or simply want to make it a road or path... As they say in the movie Robots.. "see a need fill a need... " ;) Look for something to do that isnt already done by several other mods.. Example: almost everyone already uses a settlement expansion mod to expand build areas... Every vanilla location already has clean versions done by several people..(in your case you "force" people to use 5 locations they may already have a mod for". Everyone uses a scrapping mod to remove unwanted trash/debris etc..that you cant usually do in the vanilla game...
I could go on for hours but i would rather you watch some tutorials on modding this game to save me my keyboard :P
Edit:... Dont add pics of the mod to the file...It makes the file a lot larger for no reason...(upload them to the mod page)
Edit:... Took a quick look with the CK... Navmesh in egret needs fixing where you removed the building... The truck you placed at Warwick blocks NPC's from walking (navmesh) ... You cant just place objects with collision anywhere...NPC's will try to walk through them if the navmesh says they can... Starlight is full of trash as in vanilla....(this is a precombined issue ) Objects you "disabled" are still referenced by the precombined data and will be re-enabled (partially in most cases where you have the object but cant remove it even with console commands).... There are also cases where one piece of trash/debris or even stuff like candles etc... are "grouped "with other objects so if you remove one object the others will "call it back " (these are what we call stacked)...In this case you have to find the "parent" object and delete the link refs to the objects you want to remove... (example: candles on a coffee table..... The coffee table links to all the objects that make up the candle cluster... )
Thanks for identifying some potential problems and trying to explain some modding technique. I still do not really understand about precombined meshes, does the object have a reference name that is linked to parent object, or does it work with some kind of list? I am pretty much just disabling different kinds of brush and trash, so not sure how they are combined. any trash that disappears when an associated object is scrapped, like a large shelf, was not touched by this mod. I only disabled trash that you cannot scrap in game. i did not notice that any of those objects were linked to anything, so not sure what you are seeing in game or how the game combines objects other than using references.
This is not my first mod, I have been modding Bethesda games for over ten years. I realize that FO4 is a lot different from FO3 and I may not be up to speed maybe on all the stuff Bethesda added to FO4, but some of my mods are pretty involved, like my Skyrim mod.
As far as Navmeshes, I have done quite a bit. This mod as an example, I added Navmeshes to the boats, buildings where they needed them, and adjusted some that got in the way. I did not catch the floating mesh at Egret, not sure why it would be there as the building i disabled could not be entered. I may fix it someday. Another example of my Navmeshing is Warwick. I added and fixed the Navmeshes on the gantry ways above the tanks, and all the way to the pump station roof. I built a diner up there and my hostess NPC was able to go all the way there.
as far as things like the truck being in the way, the intent was to scrap it so problem solved. but if for some reason you want to keep it, NPC's will find their way around it. not much difference in you placing a bus or train car in your settlement, it would sit on the games Navmeshes.
I like to add images to the zipped file because a player can just reference an image from a file on their computer, I do not like having to get on the net and go to a web page to see some images. This is especially true of my mods, like Bobblehead Run, maybe not so much for this mod, but that is the reason i like to add images. Maybe for this mod, i am just showing off how i developed a settlement, to share some ideas.
Cool that you understand my intent and didnt take it as some kind of bullying like i got a response from another new modder a few weeks ago..(his mod was a disaster to be honest)... Precombined meshes and identifying what is in which cluster is a very lengthy and technical process that you dont want to get into and i never look at that stuff since i regenerate all the data from scratch anyways... Just think about it like this...Most statics are in the precombined data. Even moving one of those objects one unit breaks the precombined mesh .This is why you have to be very careful when moving around in the CK and "grabbing" onto objects to shift your view etc..Sometimes we can touch an object and involuntarily move it/spin it etc...and the result is obvious if it belongs to a precombined mesh.. The real issue with broken precombines is that when a cell's precombined mesh breaks it effects the previs of MANY cells(3 cells outwards in every direction from the cell we broke...THIS is what causes the FPS drops.
Another reason we generate this data when we make changes to the cell and touch objects that are in a precombined cluster is because the vanilla precombined data has those objects referenced and will show them in their originally recorded positions...
About NOT being able to place stuff on certain surfaces like some floors etc... Is because those objects lack a certain keyword. The problem is that in order to add that keyword we have to make a duplicate of that object (and rename it) and use that to edit and replace the original object... Example:
When i started "know how" and methodology werent very specific and there were many good but also many bad opinions about how to...etc... I had to learn the hard way just to get the basics...So if i see someone truly dedicated to want to learn i try to help so they dont have to jump through the same hoops i did.. Its a really fun experience to mod once you get the basics down and it isnt as frustrating as it was at the beginning...
Um, I have no idea what you're talking about with any of these settlements. I have removed and built at all locations with zero problems. Especially Egret Tours. I have literally scrapped the entire building and built a custom dwelling in mt game.
on a working playthrough you may not see the issues... I test with a virgin save.... Also i looked at the locations with the editor...The problems ARE..there...especially the navmesh...(pics dont lie ;) )
If you cannot see the difference between this mod and the vanilla game, then this mod is not for you.
In my version of FO4, I cannot scrap any buildings at Egret Tours, so I am unsure how you can do this? I am also unable to add furniture to the building with the bar. My mod also takes care of the unscrapable items in the area, like the large shelves in the boat house. I guess all the bushes and brambles are fine with you, and that is great, but they distracted from my game, so I disabled them. Looks much nicer to me.
Who can build in the Lighthouse? I turned it into my clinic, I put my clinic all the way to the top, and added beds etc to the other levels. My medic NPC is able to go all the way to the top to perform services and sleeps on one of the beds. You can also build piers way out into the water.
If you want for reference look at my egret mod and see what i had to do to the old buildings... The original building with the bar is ONE object hence you cant edit it ingame and probably doesnt have the "stackableitem" keyword so you can place in it.. In my Forthagen mod i made a duplicate of that building so that it can be usable and fixed... (look at that mod as well...it has A LOT of work on buildings,terrain etc...
The settlements will not look very different, except that there should not be bushes/brambles/etc, and items you cannot scrap, like some trash piles and trash decals.
The terrain has grasses of various sizes and these cannot be disabled, so if you are seeing grasses, then those will be there, but hedges or bushes should all be gone.
Some differences to look for. Starlight Drive In should not have any movie reels in the projector area and the diner below should be trash free. The Egret Tours area should be missing the large building toward the parking lot, have two new boats in addition to no trash. You can also build beds on the boats and assign an NPC to sleep there, I did this for the red boat and my NPC was sleeping like a baby. So if you are at Egret and it looks just like vanilla FO4, then the mod must not be running.
Any trash that 'is' scrapable in game will still be there, some trash piles remain because you can scrap them or they disappear when you scrape associated furniture. So if you have trash that cannot be scraped still there, then okay something is going on.
12 comments
From what i read in your description you have a lot of questions of how some things are or work in the game...
May i suggest watching a few tutorials...on the creation kit...(there are many on youtube...)
A big mistake you made by "cleaning up" will cause performance issues to many users or issues like stuff flickering/appearing/disappearing ,old objects like trash/debris are still there etc...
This is because you broke what we call the precombined meshes and previs for many cells .
Mods that repair previs or have regenerated new data for locations close to yours will also cause issues and simply swapping load order wont fix the issue if your locations dont have their own data...
In order to fix this if people start to complain is to regenerate precombined meshed and previs for all the cells you edited...(in your case its a bit complicated since you went and did multiple locations at once...that are "tied" to a single esp. Hence you have to move from location to location in the ck and generate data for each location and then pack up all that data into archives..(will make a big file)...
Objects that arent detected via workshop to be moved or scrapped dont have a "recipe" because they arent meant to be moved or removed (precombined objects)....
Buildings that are hollow are what we call "shells" and those werent meant to be used but are mostly set dressing or just part of the visuals...
If you want them usable you have to replace the walls with "full" versions and ofc add floors etc...BUT you also have to edit the navmesh so npc's can use them...
The visual border is one of this game's idiotic ideas when they could have simply made the primitive or build area box visible in workshop mode and the thing they used cant be reshaped...
So all you can do is duplicate/rename and resize a similar border from another location that matches your build area shape.
Suggestions...
Dont do multiple locations in one mod in the future because you make it harder on yourself to work with...(example the previs issue).. Imagine when i do a location i sometimes have to redo the data over and over if an issue with an object shows up that wont allow proper generation of the previs/precombines...now imagine you that will have to deal with 5 locations to do the same...
Learn to navmesh.... VERY essential if you move/remove/add objects that have collision and that the vanilla navmesh was built on..(imagine removing a wall or building that wasnt usable ....The vanilla navmesh was made so NPC's would go around it.. Hence its not a valid area for them to use if you add a real building to that spot or simply want to make it a road or path...
As they say in the movie Robots.. "see a need fill a need... " ;)
Look for something to do that isnt already done by several other mods..
Example: almost everyone already uses a settlement expansion mod to expand build areas... Every vanilla location already has clean versions done by several people..(in your case you "force" people to use 5 locations they may already have a mod for". Everyone uses a scrapping mod to remove unwanted trash/debris etc..that you cant usually do in the vanilla game...
I could go on for hours but i would rather you watch some tutorials on modding this game to save me my keyboard :P
Edit:...
Dont add pics of the mod to the file...It makes the file a lot larger for no reason...(upload them to the mod page)
Edit:...
Took a quick look with the CK...
Navmesh in egret needs fixing where you removed the building...
The truck you placed at Warwick blocks NPC's from walking (navmesh) ... You cant just place objects with collision anywhere...NPC's will try to walk through them if the navmesh says they can...
Starlight is full of trash as in vanilla....(this is a precombined issue )
Objects you "disabled" are still referenced by the precombined data and will be re-enabled (partially in most cases where you have the object but cant remove it even with console commands)....
There are also cases where one piece of trash/debris or even stuff like candles etc... are "grouped "with other objects so if you remove one object the others will "call it back " (these are what we call stacked)...In this case you have to find the "parent" object and delete the link refs to the objects you want to remove... (example: candles on a coffee table..... The coffee table links to all the objects that make up the candle cluster... )
Example for the navmesh at Egret...
This is not my first mod, I have been modding Bethesda games for over ten years. I realize that FO4 is a lot different from FO3 and I may not be up to speed maybe on all the stuff Bethesda added to FO4, but some of my mods are pretty involved, like my Skyrim mod.
As far as Navmeshes, I have done quite a bit. This mod as an example, I added Navmeshes to the boats, buildings where they needed them, and adjusted some that got in the way. I did not catch the floating mesh at Egret, not sure why it would be there as the building i disabled could not be entered. I may fix it someday. Another example of my Navmeshing is Warwick. I added and fixed the Navmeshes on the gantry ways above the tanks, and all the way to the pump station roof. I built a diner up there and my hostess NPC was able to go all the way there.
as far as things like the truck being in the way, the intent was to scrap it so problem solved. but if for some reason you want to keep it, NPC's will find their way around it. not much difference in you placing a bus or train car in your settlement, it would sit on the games Navmeshes.
I like to add images to the zipped file because a player can just reference an image from a file on their computer, I do not like having to get on the net and go to a web page to see some images. This is especially true of my mods, like Bobblehead Run, maybe not so much for this mod, but that is the reason i like to add images. Maybe for this mod, i am just showing off how i developed a settlement, to share some ideas.
Precombined meshes and identifying what is in which cluster is a very lengthy and technical process that you dont want to get into and i never look at that stuff since i regenerate all the data from scratch anyways...
Just think about it like this...Most statics are in the precombined data. Even moving one of those objects one unit breaks the precombined mesh .This is why you have to be very careful when moving around in the CK and "grabbing" onto objects to shift your view etc..Sometimes we can touch an object and involuntarily move it/spin it etc...and the result is obvious if it belongs to a precombined mesh..
The real issue with broken precombines is that when a cell's precombined mesh breaks it effects the previs of MANY cells(3 cells outwards in every direction from the cell we broke...THIS is what causes the FPS drops.
Another reason we generate this data when we make changes to the cell and touch objects that are in a precombined cluster is because the vanilla precombined data has those objects referenced and will show them in their originally recorded positions...
About NOT being able to place stuff on certain surfaces like some floors etc... Is because those objects lack a certain keyword.
The problem is that in order to add that keyword we have to make a duplicate of that object (and rename it) and use that to edit and replace the original object...
Example:
It's awesome of you to help out newcomers like this! :)
I had to learn the hard way just to get the basics...So if i see someone truly dedicated to want to learn i try to help so they dont have to jump through the same hoops i did..
Its a really fun experience to mod once you get the basics down and it isnt as frustrating as it was at the beginning...
I test with a virgin save....
Also i looked at the locations with the editor...The problems ARE..there...especially the navmesh...(pics dont lie ;) )
In my version of FO4, I cannot scrap any buildings at Egret Tours, so I am unsure how you can do this? I am also unable to add furniture to the building with the bar. My mod also takes care of the unscrapable items in the area, like the large shelves in the boat house. I guess all the bushes and brambles are fine with you, and that is great, but they distracted from my game, so I disabled them. Looks much nicer to me.
Who can build in the Lighthouse? I turned it into my clinic, I put my clinic all the way to the top, and added beds etc to the other levels. My medic NPC is able to go all the way to the top to perform services and sleeps on one of the beds. You can also build piers way out into the water.
How is that not different from the vanilla game?
The original building with the bar is ONE object hence you cant edit it ingame and probably doesnt have the "stackableitem" keyword so you can place in it..
In my Forthagen mod i made a duplicate of that building so that it can be usable and fixed... (look at that mod as well...it has A LOT of work on buildings,terrain etc...
Used a fresh save out of the vault ....all trash etc still there...
The terrain has grasses of various sizes and these cannot be disabled, so if you are seeing grasses, then those will be there, but hedges or bushes should all be gone.
Some differences to look for.
Starlight Drive In should not have any movie reels in the projector area and the diner below should be trash free.
The Egret Tours area should be missing the large building toward the parking lot, have two new boats in addition to no trash. You can also build beds on the boats and assign an NPC to sleep there, I did this for the red boat and my NPC was sleeping like a baby. So if you are at Egret and it looks just like vanilla FO4, then the mod must not be running.
Any trash that 'is' scrapable in game will still be there, some trash piles remain because you can scrap them or they disappear when you scrape associated furniture. So if you have trash that cannot be scraped still there, then okay something is going on.
Not to mention the increased buildable area.