I'm not very good at confronting people, because it's usually counter-productive. People feel singled out, and it amounts to very little positive change.

Instead I just wait, and let it happen for a bit, so I can write an article to address a general problem.

This is something that's happened on the majority of my releases throughout my modding career, and is a common reason why I end up not updating my mods. Because it's an incredibly dispiriting experience.

It's when people act pedantic. For instance, a few months back I figured that it would be awesome to have a zombie survival experience in Fallout 4, and I thought of ways to make that happen. I figured out that I could simply substitute regular spawn points with ghouls, and you got a pretty cool zombie survival experience that really just uses regular things in the game. Thus, you have not only zombie survival, but it's even lore friendly. Simply recycling enemies in-game.

Thus "Lore Friendly Zombie Apocalypse" was born. Wasn't long before people begun to act pedantic, complaining about how going beyond their imaginary feral ghoul quotas was a clear violation of canon. Ignoring the literal sea of radiation that covers half of the map. Same thing happened on my anarchist mod, my communist mod, and even my flag replacer texture.

I mean, it's a flag replacer texture. A pathetic detail that someone still managed to find an issue with, because I decided to include a quote in Latin. To take a little bit of creative freedom to find a cool motto for the Minutemen. Because I was audacious enough to do that, I believe I got at least three comments complaining about my ruthless defiance of their convention.

One whose sole problem with my mod was how it was a motto based on the Ugandan philosophy of "I am because we are.", and how the real Minutemen "Weren't African." True, but the real Minutemen hunted Native Americans and burned down people's homes. So maybe there's a bit of flexibility there since they seemed to have more in common with the very raiders that the new Minutemen are fighting.

So, now I release PLUNDER, and I get pedantic comments again. I wanted it to make Survival feel more rewarding, so I added more loot to dungeons. So the difficult combat and harsh save rules pay off. Since you might end up raiding the same building five times over if you're facing particularly tough enemies, not to mention the carry weight being what it is.

And lo' and behold, "This isn't what survival is about."

Survival can be about anything. It's a matter of preference. I made it the way I like since it's my mod.

But the absolute worst part is the sheer arrogance of all this. Because

A) They never cite sources for their arguments on lore, or something else.
B) They're always rude and demanding.
C) Chances are, we've thought about what they're about to say already, and have a valid reason for still doing something.
D) If I talk back, then I'm an "elitist who can't handle criticism." Once I got into a massive argument from lodes of people simply for pointing out how being condescending isn't contributing too much.

But actually, I can handle criticism. I just can't handle whatever the hell this is.

Most of you are amazing, and you're really supportive. 90% of all encounters here are nothing but positive and reaffirming, and I totally understand that us modders are oft times arrogant and horrible. (No, really, we are. I'm not just being modest. I've gotten plenty of abuse from modders as well.)

And since you're all so awesome, might as well point out how I don't really want you to change at all. I'm just venting. Here's some highlights:



All I did was increase feral ghoul spawns. Not sure why he's going on about zombies.






https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_association_%28communism_and_anarchism%29





Belize
Brazil
Dominican Republic
Egypt
Ecuatorial Guinea
Guatemala
Haiti
Iran
Iraq
Malta
Nicaragua
Paraguay
San Marino
Saudi Arabia





Replied to the guy above and told him that being condescending isn't contributing much. Random comes in with this:






Being associated with Africans is an insult now? *Cough* racist...

And last, but not least, internet tough guy private message:



Fun fact: I sourced 6k cloth resolution textures and remade the entire flag from scratch using public domain photograph assets to make it look realistic. But hey, you don't need any technical expertise in modding to have a valid judgement... apparently.

That being said, in all these instances lodes of people came to back me up. Which is really what this post is about. Keep it up. Just one good comment is enough to cancel out an entire thread of negativity. Thanks, everyone. No need to insult people, or break Nexus policy, simply expressing disagreement towards these bullies goes a long way, and last I checked, saying "Stop being so pedantic." or "You're wrong about this.", is perfectly allowed.

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Thumblesteen

13 comments

  1. Thumblesteen
    Thumblesteen
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    Locked
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    Are the images cropped for no apparent reason?

    Right click > View image.
  2. mvm900
    mvm900
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    Hey I'm gonna go ahead and fix what was said because lore friendly isn't that subjective. Example: I write in that the US was conquered by the UK before the nukes dropped. That's a blatant change to what was previously established. Simple as that, really. I don't really care what Bethesda decides to do now because I won't personally accept it because that's both not what the original devs would have wanted and it doesn't make any sense anyway.In FO3 you talked to like.. one super mutant. They turned into boring generic bandits. They don't even try to make them seem like beings that at some point had a purpose or reason to live.
    Just remove 'lore friendly'. Problem fixed.
    Marx never made sense anyway so there's that. His definition of state, as far as I understood, meant that it was inherently oppressive and all that jazz. Basically something dumb that's kind of irrelevant considering the actual definition of state.
    I don't think the minutemen should have anything to do with Africa. Why would they. And honestly your response of what actual Minutemen did doesn't really... address the problem of 'why would they have a ugandan slogan'. And that's not racism, racism is the belief that inferiority or superiority is based on race. Saying the /American Minutemen have nothing to do with Africa/ and /that it might be an insult to what they stood for/ isn't racist. Kinda dumb but not racist.
    But yeah, people complain a lot. Some people are woefully toxic.
  3. SydneyB
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    My piece of advice:
    Don't care about lore-friendliness, immersive and all that rubbish. Just make a mod that you want to have in your game.
    * If somebody says that "x is not lore-friendly" tell him not to use mods. By definition, only Bethesda can release something that is strictly lore-friendly. Anything from a mod is a deviation from the lore-friendlness.
    * If somebody says this breaks his immersion tell him that it is a pity he lacks imagination and probably shouldn't be playing games at all as imagination is the base of games.
    * If somebody says that he wants something else, tell him to do it himself and point him to tutorials.

    That's the only way of staying sane
    1. Thirdstorm
      Thirdstorm
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      +1
    2. RaffTheSweetling
      RaffTheSweetling
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      Nailed it!
  4. User_15964729
    User_15964729
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    Spot on Ruinedworld. As much as we may lament Bethesdas interpretation of the lore, it's pretty much the cards we have been dealt with. Many things we can change but other things are either too time consuming, hardcoded or due to engine restrictions. Complaining that a mod don't agree with your subjective is pretty much a waste of time for all parties involved. If you like a mod but think certain details are out of place, starting a discussion with the mod author and/or the other users about it is the most effective and socially creative thing to do. It's odd, people seem to find posting a tirade of messages easier than spending five minutes addressing something
     
    Modding is by definition sort of the the opposite of immersion, if it means the world has certain preordained rules such as gravity and history. It's a way to micromanage your gaming experience regardless of what was intended by Interplay or Bethesda and as such only suitable for persons with a DYI approach.
  5. Ruinedworld
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    Lore friendly and immersion are all subjective topics… Which is a concept I feel most people have trouble understanding. People feel that only their opinion of these topics matter, and everyone else is wrong. This is a problem as it stifles creativity and starts genres down an increasingly narrow funnel that has little to no wiggle room to expand and explore new ideas. As an artist I have to contend with this all the time, I am not allowed to draw my interpretation of a Stormtrooper, or Cylon without instantly being inundated with comments that have little or nothing to do with the artwork at all, but is because it doesn’t look exactly like the concept art that was drawn 30 years ago by a different artist… SO WHAT!
  6. caldera3
    caldera3
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    This problem exists across all facets of development, in all honesty. Just keep on plugging and ignore the jerks. As a programmer, I salute you for contributing to this community regardless of hate that gets flung at you.
  7. Gothpunk4Christ
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    People will only complain about immersion when it suits them, because, you know, every female in game walks around with a massive rack, no older than 18, and half naked all the time. At least, from what I recall, most all of the first mods were based something along these lines...

    It's a MOD... at author's discretion can do anything. If they don't like it, they shouldn't use it.
  8. Brakier
    Brakier
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    People being mean is so counter productive, making a mod can take alot of sweat and hours, and to having to deal with such comments can make any modder lose intrest in sharing thier mod, being mean is not the same as being critical, use the report function.
  9. Thirdstorm
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    The people who enjoy mods and usually silent, and those that find a "minor" flaw(Real or perceived) are shockingly vocal...

    Very minor modder, but with my limited experience I'm surprised people don't burn out quicker.

    Keep putting out things you enjoy, and remember some will love it (and might never say so), many will enjoy it (and might never say anything or endorse) and of the few that take offense the majority should be ignored.
  10. Yehudi
    Yehudi
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    can you handle some brutal honesty thumblesteen if so pm me .
  11. User_15964729
    User_15964729
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    Ah yes. To take part in a community such as this can be a minefield. If you ignore or insult everyone from the get go you pretty much miss out on all the benefits of sharing your mod/idea/story with people.

    Guess thats why it's so annoying when people deem themselves some kind of roman emperor of mods where they with a casual flick of their thumb judge this or that mods right to exist. It's an odd behaviour.

    Nexus has such huge diversity and can pretty much cater to anyones tastes. To try and silence or abuse mods you don't like is, besides being petty asocial behaviour, also a wake up call to start making mods you want to see yourself, not attacking the authors of mods you don't want to see.

    Suppose much of it is trolling but I fear even more is stifled creativity turned into negativity. Since you share you assets with the permission to be used by anyone without any questions asked so long as credit is given it's easier to just change what you dislike about the mod instead of having a pointless battle of personal preferences.