Do you plan on doing the scale mail armor armor too? Was kinda sad they removed the knee guards in full release. They were there during EA and some npcs still wear that version
What drew my attention to the Leather sets was the asymmetry of +1. I might not have given it much thought, if both knee-pads were missing.
I'll take a look at scale mail. If it can be done as a straight model-swap, I likely will address it.
The process of creating model-swaps isn't "difficult"; just very time-consuming and tedious (given all the races and body-types). Doubly-so if the models use a separate texture from the pants. That is, compared to making a single .lsf to effectively do the same thing.
But I'm reluctant to code-over base-game items. That's normally considered a bad idea.
Most NPCs have models applied directly to their coded entries. When that's the case, the armor they appear to be wearing isn't actually set up as an item.
The Kith'rak of the Creche in Act 1 is a good example of this. Which is precisely why I made Kith'rak's Armor. But this was only possible by creating a new item via code. Though, I did opt to do some modeling work; just to clean up Larian's 'rough edges'.
There are many other examples, but lets not spoil anything for those who've not played all the through the game yet.
BTW, you mentioned some NPCs still use the scale mail knee-pads as part of their appearance. Can you suggest one by name or description, along with their rough location? I'd like to see what they look like in-game.
[UPDATE]
I looked into this. Doing this as a model-swap would be impractical, based on how much work would be involved. The main reason is that the virtual-textures used by the pants and knee-pads are quite different. If I removed the weird little leg-cape-thing on the knee-pads it would be slightly easier, but still a lot of work.
Incidentally, it's likely that the clipping issues those weird leg-cape-things probably caused with most of the boots in the game, that prompted Larian to remove the knee-pads from the Scale Mail's item entries in their .lsf files.
Either way, this would be WAY easier to do by creating a new item that uses the desired model aspects (Objects, in Blender). But that wouldn't have the far-reaching effect that a model-swap would.
I think the npcs in game use them without the cape thing on them like Geraldus in act 3. At the harper hideout. Bit I get what you mean. Idk if any of the npcs use the cape thing.
I can take another look at this, given the info you've both provided.
In an item created in code you assign models, virtual-textures and color pallets separately. So, if Adamantine Scale's knee protection is cape-free, then Larian is probably just using A.S.'s models and textures, but altering the color pallet to match that of normal Scale Mail.
Unless the leg-capes are removed from the knee-pad model, they can't be omitted via code. They are one and the same Object.
That being said, I could easily cut it away myself. But the problem I ran into was that the virtual-texture Scale Male's pants uses has no areas which would be suitable for use on any aspect of the knee protection. See, I can join the knee protection to the pants in Blender, after adjusting their UV Map to the virtual-texture used by the pants, but that assumes there is some area of the virtual-texture that already has the right look. For the purposes of this game, it's a 'one texture per Object situation'.
If you just want a "Scale Male +2 looking armor", that you can use for with Transmog Enhanced, that's a different matter entirely. But that's a solution in a bottle, so to speak. It would extend to your party alone. Whereas a model swap (like this mod) is meant to effect every instance of its subject-model. So, when you use this mod, most NPCs wearing Leather Armor +1, and all NPCs wearing +2, will have their armor fixed too. The reach is far broader.
I will take another look at this, now that Nine-Fingers' armor is taken care of. But, again, the major issue is the texture, not the model.
In order to create a Scale Mail model-swap, I'll need to join the knee-protection to the pants in Blender, and that means they have to use the same texture (according to BG3, not Blender).
I'm going try to do this as a model AND texture-swap. But I don't know it textures can be overwritten, due to the way they are stored. Rather, I don't know what their directory-structure looks like, past the point of compression.. It might not work at all. In a case like this a swap is better because the effect will span the game, even to some of the NPCs who wear scale mail.
If that doesn't work though, I'll make a single-instance item that one can either wear or use with Transmog Enhanced.
can I share an idea (not a request)? I always thought the leather armor line would look cool with a hem, like leather extending past the waist a bit, on the back? or even longer. not sure what that's called properly but might look cool.
I'm sorry but I don't know what you mean. A hem is what you have along the bottom edge of a shirt or at the bottom of each pant-leg. It's just fabric that's been turned under a couple times and stitched, to prevent the fabric from unraveling. Can you clarify further? Or if you can supply a picture, that might help clear it up.
sorry, I meant where it extends past the waist to form a sort of "skirt." this is an example. it could be shorter than that, or can be cloth. But this made me realize we already have the armor in the picture lol (thought the default version of it looks pretty goofy).
I agree that it does look a bit goofy. And the more advanced version of that armor looks goofier-still. I can have a look at the models to see if some of those questionable angles can be sorted out; like it being high in the back and low in the front. If anything, I would think that one would want the opposite, so they could more readily kneel down to pick things up, check for tracks or traps, sneak around, etc.
Virtual textures are sort of a neon blob, when viewed outside the game, so no promises it will pan-out. But I'll look.
Thanks for this. I get fashion and all, but single kneepad is really just silly.
I've noticed that Nine-Fingers Keene in game also wears Leather Armor +2, but the trim is metallic. Not sure if it's possible, but would you consider or be interested in editing the armor models to include a version with the metallic trim? I don't think I've ever seen it anywhere else and I think it's a nice alternative to an already nice outfit.
That "metal trim" is the 'Accent_Color' channel of the color pallet. Any dye which uses a gold color in its Accent_Color channel will produce this effect. I could not name an existing dye which does this, off the top of my head, but I know I've seen a few that do. Some of which, I believe, were base-game dyes too. But I would check out TC Dyes (a huge bag of dyes that you can buy in-game as one item - pretty hit or miss for me though; color-wise), Dyes of Faerun (muted colors that blend into the based-game very well), or Faerun Colors (extremely saturated - great for over-riding color-biases in some textures).
I have no idea which armor or clothing that scarf is being scavenged from, but I like it too. I'll check into that...
I'm pretty sure it's different. Like Nine Finger's version uses a different texture or material for the trim. As the maker of TC Dyes, I'm aware that accent color is what dyes the matte trim on the normal Leather Armor +1 and +2, and the metallic effect cannot be replicated by any color value used by the accent channel, as much as I wish it would. But no worries though, as it was just a suggestion since you were interested in adjusting the base game Leather Armor and I thought you might be interested in other possible variants.
Scarf can be found in the Basket of Equipment mod, I believe. But I don't think I've seen it attached to any other piece of armor in game, so that might be evidence that Nine Finger's version of Leather Armor is unique?
Then the difference is probably owed to the Material value given to the item's entry. I can check again though. But I'm pretty sure there isn't a separate virtual-texture for Nine-Finger's Leather Armor +2.
If what you want is to create a new item, via code, it's no problem at all. But that is a one-off solution. The item will exist for the player's use, but NPCs will go right on using what they've always used. This is a limitation of creating a new item via coda, which simply utilizes existing models and virtual-textures. Whereas model-swaps can be done without any code at all.
It is technically possible to preform sweeping changes to existing items via code. But, in general, it is ill-advised for modders to alter (via coded over-rides) a game's default code. Doing so opens the door to all kinds of potential conflicts with other mods. But that's just my own POV. Other modders can do as they please, I guess.
It may be worth mentioning too that in most cases the knee-protection for a given armor is a separate model/Object; both in Blender and in the game's code. The item's entry in the game's code simply calls on more than one Object; along with a virtual-texture for each. The Objects can be combined in Blender, but they then need to use the same virtual-texture. This is not a limitation on Blender's part. You could assign dozens of textures to a model in Blender, with separate UV Maps utilizing each texture, if you're so-inclined. But the game is limited to calling on one texture per Object. And again, this all assumes you want to create a new items, rather than swap-in a model that over-rides the original. [UPDATE]
Yes, Nine-Finger's armor DOES use a different texture than does the standard Leather Armor +2, which is very likely where that metallic shine on the trim comes from. Specifically:
HUM_M_ARM_Leather_A_2_Guild_Gorget_MSKcloth.DDS
vs the standard,
HUM_M_ARM_Leather_A_2_Gorget_MSKcloth.DDS
This would be simple enough to add in a mod that offers a new version of Leather Armor +2 to players.
As for the scarf...still looking. It can be a pain to track down (and then interpret) how a given NPC's appearance is derived; since there are multiple ways Larian could have done it. She's probably like Kith'rak Therezzyn; with Objects added directly to her entry, rather than actually wearing an in-game item.
I found the scarf. It is, of course, a separate mesh/Object. It's named:
HUM_F_ARM_Cult_Absolute_Scarf_A.GR2
It's UUID in the game's files is:
23e95273-2945-e172-99cc-c04506200b8f
Keep in mind though that his UUID is just for the Human Female Body-type 1.
Just thought I'd drop this info here, in-case anyone was thinking about taking a stab at making their own armor mod (wink-wink, nudge-nudge).
Here's a screenshot of what the armor looks like in Blender, with the scarf's clipping issues fixed and its UV Map adjusted to utilize the same texture that the sleeves use, and with the virtual-textures which feature the metallic trim.
(right-click on the broken icon and select Open Image in New Tab)
I just now made the connection between your user-name and your own dye mod that I recommended to you. Sorry, I should read more thoroughly I guess! lmao..
As I've enjoyed the use of your dyes quite a bit, I'll throw together a mod that makes Nine-Fingers' version of Leather Armor available to players, as a 'thank you'. ^_^
[UPDATE]
It turns out that the Leather Armor pants that Nine-Fingers wears don't use the virtual texture that's specifically made to match the top.
The point I'm getting at is, would you prefer an exact match to Nine-Fingers Leather Armor, or do you want the otherwise-unacquirable pants virtual-texture that actually match the top? To be clear, I'm not actually sure if the in-game outcome will even be noticeable. Because virtual-textures look like square neon-colored blobs, devoid of most finer detail. Either way, they'll have knee-pads.
No problem about the dye thing, lol. I enjoy making dyes and am glad to see that people like and use them despite my very particular preferences in color schemes.
I really appreciate you taking the time to find and make a mod out of Nine Finger's armor. You really don't have to, so thank you :)
As for the pants, looking at her pants in game vs the normal Leather Armor pants, I can't really see any difference between the two. So whichever you prefer will be fine, I'm sure.
Just an update on making Nine-Fingers' armor available. I've got it done, mostly. It's a functional mod now, technically.
There is one little problem I'm trying to work out though. The way the texture displays on the scarf looks perfect in the character-pane. But in the active game-world it has these weird black blotches on it. I have no clue what's causing that to happen though; only guesses. I had reoriented the scarf's UV Map to utilize a cloth area on the texture that the armor's sleeves utilize, mostly to make sure it used the Cloth_Color channel I wanted it to (the area under the lacing on the sleeves), and because I could find that texture's .DDS easily.
But this meant I had to rotate some UV blocks and resize them. This could have caused some visual mischief, but I really can't see why it would have done so. Especially given that the scarf looks perfect in the character-pane. So it might have something to do with how the texture's coded values react to light/shadows. Which kind of makes sense, given that that portion of the texture is meant to appear in a place on the sleeves that would be prone to shadows.
Anyway, it's 99% done. Just trouble-shooting this stupid texture. The scarf's original texture uses the same Cloth_Color channel that the bulk of the sleeves do, which is too much of the same color, in my opinion. As well, the scarf's original texture is one of those exceptions; where, no matter how you go about it, you can't find a connection between the UUID (which is: "db55b835-481b-0aa5-3d85-baebc4cf6ecb") and the actual *MSKcloth.DDS file names. That happens some times.. Especially with generic textures that get used in a multitude of ways.
I did swap-out my modified scarf's Object entry for the original, in the mod's main .lsf, and it worked just fine (albeit with the aforementioned over-use of that Cloth_Color channel). Worst case I start over with the model in Blender. Trying to solve this by more expedient ways via code first though. A lot of tweaking was needed on the model in Blender, to get rid of clipping issues. Either way, it's progressing.
26 comments
I'll take a look at scale mail. If it can be done as a straight model-swap, I likely will address it.
The process of creating model-swaps isn't "difficult"; just very time-consuming and tedious (given all the races and body-types). Doubly-so if the models use a separate texture from the pants. That is, compared to making a single .lsf to effectively do the same thing.
But I'm reluctant to code-over base-game items. That's normally considered a bad idea.
The Kith'rak of the Creche in Act 1 is a good example of this. Which is precisely why I made Kith'rak's Armor. But this was only possible by creating a new item via code. Though, I did opt to do some modeling work; just to clean up Larian's 'rough edges'.
There are many other examples, but lets not spoil anything for those who've not played all the through the game yet.
BTW, you mentioned some NPCs still use the scale mail knee-pads as part of their appearance. Can you suggest one by name or description, along with their rough location? I'd like to see what they look like in-game.
[UPDATE]
I looked into this. Doing this as a model-swap would be impractical, based on how much work would be involved. The main reason is that the virtual-textures used by the pants and knee-pads are quite different. If I removed the weird little leg-cape-thing on the knee-pads it would be slightly easier, but still a lot of work.
Incidentally, it's likely that the clipping issues those weird leg-cape-things probably caused with most of the boots in the game, that prompted Larian to remove the knee-pads from the Scale Mail's item entries in their .lsf files.
Either way, this would be WAY easier to do by creating a new item that uses the desired model aspects (Objects, in Blender). But that wouldn't have the far-reaching effect that a model-swap would.
In an item created in code you assign models, virtual-textures and color pallets separately. So, if Adamantine Scale's knee protection is cape-free, then Larian is probably just using A.S.'s models and textures, but altering the color pallet to match that of normal Scale Mail.
Unless the leg-capes are removed from the knee-pad model, they can't be omitted via code. They are one and the same Object.
That being said, I could easily cut it away myself. But the problem I ran into was that the virtual-texture Scale Male's pants uses has no areas which would be suitable for use on any aspect of the knee protection. See, I can join the knee protection to the pants in Blender, after adjusting their UV Map to the virtual-texture used by the pants, but that assumes there is some area of the virtual-texture that already has the right look. For the purposes of this game, it's a 'one texture per Object situation'.
If you just want a "Scale Male +2 looking armor", that you can use for with Transmog Enhanced, that's a different matter entirely. But that's a solution in a bottle, so to speak. It would extend to your party alone. Whereas a model swap (like this mod) is meant to effect every instance of its subject-model. So, when you use this mod, most NPCs wearing Leather Armor +1, and all NPCs wearing +2, will have their armor fixed too. The reach is far broader.
In order to create a Scale Mail model-swap, I'll need to join the knee-protection to the pants in Blender, and that means they have to use the same texture (according to BG3, not Blender).
If that doesn't work though, I'll make a single-instance item that one can either wear or use with Transmog Enhanced.
imgur link
Virtual textures are sort of a neon blob, when viewed outside the game, so no promises it will pan-out. But I'll look.
I've noticed that Nine-Fingers Keene in game also wears Leather Armor +2, but the trim is metallic. Not sure if it's possible, but would you consider or be interested in editing the armor models to include a version with the metallic trim? I don't think I've ever seen it anywhere else and I think it's a nice alternative to an already nice outfit.
I have no idea which armor or clothing that scarf is being scavenged from, but I like it too. I'll check into that...
Scarf can be found in the Basket of Equipment mod, I believe. But I don't think I've seen it attached to any other piece of armor in game, so that might be evidence that Nine Finger's version of Leather Armor is unique?
It is technically possible to preform sweeping changes to existing items via code. But, in general, it is ill-advised for modders to alter (via coded over-rides) a game's default code. Doing so opens the door to all kinds of potential conflicts with other mods. But that's just my own POV. Other modders can do as they please, I guess.
It may be worth mentioning too that in most cases the knee-protection for a given armor is a separate model/Object; both in Blender and in the game's code. The item's entry in the game's code simply calls on more than one Object; along with a virtual-texture for each. The Objects can be combined in Blender, but they then need to use the same virtual-texture. This is not a limitation on Blender's part. You could assign dozens of textures to a model in Blender, with separate UV Maps utilizing each texture, if you're so-inclined. But the game is limited to calling on one texture per Object. And again, this all assumes you want to create a new items, rather than swap-in a model that over-rides the original.
[UPDATE]
Yes, Nine-Finger's armor DOES use a different texture than does the standard Leather Armor +2, which is very likely where that metallic shine on the trim comes from. Specifically:
HUM_M_ARM_Leather_A_2_Guild_Gorget_MSKcloth.DDS
vs the standard,
HUM_M_ARM_Leather_A_2_Gorget_MSKcloth.DDS
This would be simple enough to add in a mod that offers a new version of Leather Armor +2 to players.
As for the scarf...still looking. It can be a pain to track down (and then interpret) how a given NPC's appearance is derived; since there are multiple ways Larian could have done it. She's probably like Kith'rak Therezzyn; with Objects added directly to her entry, rather than actually wearing an in-game item.
HUM_F_ARM_Cult_Absolute_Scarf_A.GR2
It's UUID in the game's files is:
23e95273-2945-e172-99cc-c04506200b8f
Keep in mind though that his UUID is just for the Human Female Body-type 1.
Just thought I'd drop this info here, in-case anyone was thinking about taking a stab at making their own armor mod (wink-wink, nudge-nudge).
Here's a screenshot of what the armor looks like in Blender, with the scarf's clipping issues fixed and its UV Map adjusted to utilize the same texture that the sleeves use, and with the virtual-textures which feature the metallic trim.
As I've enjoyed the use of your dyes quite a bit, I'll throw together a mod that makes Nine-Fingers' version of Leather Armor available to players, as a 'thank you'. ^_^
[UPDATE]
It turns out that the Leather Armor pants that Nine-Fingers wears don't use the virtual texture that's specifically made to match the top.
The point I'm getting at is, would you prefer an exact match to Nine-Fingers Leather Armor, or do you want the otherwise-unacquirable pants virtual-texture that actually match the top? To be clear, I'm not actually sure if the in-game outcome will even be noticeable. Because virtual-textures look like square neon-colored blobs, devoid of most finer detail. Either way, they'll have knee-pads.
I really appreciate you taking the time to find and make a mod out of Nine Finger's armor. You really don't have to, so thank you :)
As for the pants, looking at her pants in game vs the normal Leather Armor pants, I can't really see any difference between the two. So whichever you prefer will be fine, I'm sure.
There is one little problem I'm trying to work out though. The way the texture displays on the scarf looks perfect in the character-pane. But in the active game-world it has these weird black blotches on it. I have no clue what's causing that to happen though; only guesses. I had reoriented the scarf's UV Map to utilize a cloth area on the texture that the armor's sleeves utilize, mostly to make sure it used the Cloth_Color channel I wanted it to (the area under the lacing on the sleeves), and because I could find that texture's .DDS easily.
But this meant I had to rotate some UV blocks and resize them. This could have caused some visual mischief, but I really can't see why it would have done so. Especially given that the scarf looks perfect in the character-pane. So it might have something to do with how the texture's coded values react to light/shadows. Which kind of makes sense, given that that portion of the texture is meant to appear in a place on the sleeves that would be prone to shadows.
Anyway, it's 99% done. Just trouble-shooting this stupid texture. The scarf's original texture uses the same Cloth_Color channel that the bulk of the sleeves do, which is too much of the same color, in my opinion. As well, the scarf's original texture is one of those exceptions; where, no matter how you go about it, you can't find a connection between the UUID (which is: "db55b835-481b-0aa5-3d85-baebc4cf6ecb") and the actual *MSKcloth.DDS file names. That happens some times.. Especially with generic textures that get used in a multitude of ways.
I did swap-out my modified scarf's Object entry for the original, in the mod's main .lsf, and it worked just fine (albeit with the aforementioned over-use of that Cloth_Color channel). Worst case I start over with the model in Blender. Trying to solve this by more expedient ways via code first though. A lot of tweaking was needed on the model in Blender, to get rid of clipping issues. Either way, it's progressing.