Looks like an interesting mod. What was your reasoning behind the changes to ethnicity based on their location? Can I expect the citizens out at night to be younger?
My guess would be Corporate stereotyping, Neon is home of Ryujiin industries and as a city itself has more of a Honk Kong or Tokyo vibe with Tech and fishing being the two largest industries. That just makes sense. New Atlantis is a bit of a head scratcher, I would think as the capital of the UC that would be the most diverse without one ethnicity outweighing another. However with the limited residential living options, the Elitist feel of the towers, the availability of medical services, and the branches of government. I would expect that population to have the oldest residents. If any region in game needs a second city nearby where the younger population could afford to live it's definitely NA. Akila being a stereotypical early American 'Western Frontier' type region, traditional norms would make it equal parts African, Hispanic, European. However there was a huge boon in Asian population on the frontier towards the end of Westward expansion aided by construction of railroads. Of course that's all subjective and based on the fact that I am American.. so that's just my limited world view and experience.
I've wanted to make each city to be quite different, based on how each city made me feel in the vanilla game. I started with some base values in the leveled lists in creation kit and then adjusted them after using the built-in spawn preview in creation kit. As Fireapple posted above, I've made Neon to have more citizens with asian ancestry because of Ryujin influence. Now that I have play tested it for more hours, I see I'll have to adjust the rates a bit, because the system works a little differently than I expected. Right now, the same amount of young/old/middle aged citizens spawn at day or night, but I think I am going to adjust that too, to make more younger people spawn in Neon at night for example. Another thing is that an european crowd head type has no mesh for old variant, so no old people of european ancestry are spawning it seems. The other have all three types, for example the asian one has CrowdHead_as_md1 (middle aged), CrowdHead_as_ol1 (old age) and CrowdHead_as_yo1 (young age), while european only has CrowdHead_eu_md1 (middle aged) and CrowdHead_eu_yo1_NOTPLAYABLE (young age), so the old variant seems to be missing from the vanilla game. So no old european people in the base game, I guess that answers the question of what Chunks are made off.
Perhaps don't bother with ethnicities at all for this age of 'enhanced' cosmopolitan colonization, it would make more sense when you think about it. A stop to enhance costs the price of a restaurant and sex and skin color are a matter of tastes and fashion. The style clothes and age variation is a really nice touch.
A stop to enhance costs the price of a restaurant and sex and skin color are a matter of tastes and fashion.
An interesting point, still not all citizens can afford it, especially in places like Ebbside or are willing to undertake the process etc. What I find more interesting is that it's possible to expand the system and make for example some hairstyles, clothes or hats to spawn only for a specific group. It is possible by adding leveled lists, outfits and NPC records. I could make for example, young citizens of asian ancestry in Neon only to have cyberfade and hairspray bob hairstyles etc. The more I delve into the system the more possibilities I see. I had to make a chart that shows how the leveled lists and outfits are connected, because it was too confusing at first.
Could you apply the same social setups and styles in a SOC plug-in to add in your mod so they would apply to any NPC of any setup ? I don't know if it's possible, that would be dope :)
My biggest issue with this (and the NPCs in general) is more peoples extremely heavy accents. On Earth, in modern day, accents are still extremely varied and robust, even so accents are diluting into each other and it is only a matter of time before there are no differences in accents. But 300 years in the future, where most, if not all, cultures and civilizations have been living together and amongst one another, and we have some people with heavy Southern US 'Old West Style' accents, British, Indian, Asian, etc. And you can find people with these accents having lived in NA all their lives. Where did they pick these accents up from?
Bethesda could have used this chance to change language and humanities primary accent, create an entire new way of speaking for 300 years into our future, Like they do with Elder Scrolls. Hell, the way we speak no a days is vastly different to 20 years ago, let alone 300. and many expressions/ usage of languages have changed as well.
""Strikers and Disciples gang members now have a chance to spawn in their parts of Ebbside (since they are part of the crowd group, they will run when attacked, I haven't found a way around this yet)""
I think it's not worth changing and correcting this point. There have always been hangers-on in any society who were together while everything was fine and who ran away when it was bad and needed to be united... Let them stay that way, enlivening and diversifying the world of NPCs... In reality, there are also many people who wear leather jackets of famous gangs and motorcycle gangs, but in fact they are not!
So far at first glance, having briefly visited New Atlantis, Akila City, and Neon, I'm liking the changes, subtle but effective. I'll go back and check it all one more time but Endorsed and thanks for the mod.
First of all, great mod. Good that you thought of something like this. One question, there are already some great mods for clothing, e.g. from “Zone79 - Eit Clothiers Plus”.
Is it perhaps possible that this clothing could be included in the pool of NPCs, including glasses & co. and the clothing is cooler and more modern overall, not from 1970. That would be a massive immersion upgrade. Just as an idea, please keep it up.. thanks. :)
Hairstyle list, does this mean that other mods relating to hairstyles are superfluous, or are they no longer taken into account by the game? e.g. https://www.nexusmods.com/starfield/mods/8364
Thanks for the suggestion, I'll look into that. Clothes from the mod should be possible if I add them to the leveled lists in my mod, but glasses are probably no go, because crowd citizens NPCs don't have head types like normal NPCs or player character.
Crowd NPCs use their own hairstyle type, I imagine mods that add hairstyles to regular NPCs and player character won't affect the crowd hairstyle lists in any case. My mod has its own leveled lists for hairstyles, clothes, heads of crowd NPCs that replace the vanilla leveled lists in the crowd NPC outfits so if other mod changes the vanilla crowd NPC hairstyles, clothes or heads lists, they won't show ingame.
The main purpose of the crowd system with their own hair/head meshes is to improve performance, so they are not as detailed as the normal NPCs or player character, but you can put normal NPCs to spawn in the crowd regions list and replace the crowd NPCs with them, I think that's what the other crowd mods like Souls of cities or Better crowd citizens are doing. I could make a compromise and keep the crowd NPCs in the crowd regions lists but add a few normal NPCs with custom clothes for example. That should work, but there will be a tiny performance hit, based on the set density of the normal NPCs spawns.
I could use this method to improve the crowds a bit more, like spawning a few gang NPCs like Strikers, Disciples, Seokguh syndicate among the crowd NPCs in Neon. I've tested it in Neon Spaceport by editing the crowd list for that area by adding a record with 100% chance to spawn a normal NPC in a swimsuit and leaving the records to spawn crowd spaceport technicians. Both NPC types spawned at their set chance. I had to modify the new normal swimsuit NPC a bit by changing the AI package to the crowd DefaultWander one but that was easy enough to do.
Or... you do a performance version, don't worry about a performance hit. There are enough people with powerful systems. Alternatively, everyone can adjust the settings down for themselves. Think of the modder of the mod Starfield-HD, he gets the most out of the system and has 600k downloads. If it's not too much effort, then let the NPCs run in the highest quality and quantity. The players' systems are getting better step by step anyway. So in short, make a performance version if possible. And the inclusion of Eit Clothiers Plus alone would be a massive upgrade for the game. Thanks for the effort you're putting in.
I am not worried about people's systems but the game engine. I have 5800X3D, 64GB RAM and RTX 3090 and the stuttering in Neon or New Atlantis is already bad enough.
Please dont use my stuff for this mod. I have already made a mod like this with my stuff that I have not released yet. It should be released in a couple weeks. Thanks.
Regarding "...they will run when attacked, I haven't found a way around this yet." For me this is a feature not a problem. To have some "criminal scum" who are cowards, poseurs or simply have a completely rational desire to not die is an improvement.
I don't change their inventories, the clothes are assigned to their outfits - each NPC actor has a default outfit that has the clothes/hats/weapons etc. Crowd NPC actors are a bit different, because they don't have individual face chargen settings in the actor record but they the faces from the default outfit that has leveled lists with faces.
For example NPC CrowdActor_Akila_Female_01 it has a default outfit Outfit_Crowds_Akila_Female set in the inventory tab. If you go to Items->Outfit in the main object window, you'll find the Outfit_Crowds_Akila_Female record there. If you then open the record, you can see what the outfit consists of. For NPC CrowdActor_Akila_Female_01 there are three leveled lists for clothes, for hairs and hats, for heads. You can delete the stuff you don't want from the outfit and add the one you want the NPC to wear, that can be done only by dragging the record of the clothes or leveled list from the object window to the outfit window. For normal NPC actors, like Jessamine Griffith for example, she has only one item in her default outfit Outfit_Elite_JessamineGriffin and that's Clothes_Trucker_Tee_Jacket_01, if you delete that record from the outfit window and drag a record Clothes_Naked_Body_SwimSuit to the outfit window, she should be wearing a swimsuit instead next time you open her actor NPC record. Or at least for me it works immediately after changing the outfit record. Normal NPCs also another another default outfit for spacesuits. It works the same, so by editing Jessamine's Outfit_Spacesuit_Elite_JessamineGriffin you can replace her default Shocktroop spacesuit with Crimson Fleet spacesuit etc.
Thank you for the answer. That's exactly what I did for them. They're carrying what I have assigned (checked with showinventory console command) but now showing up. When I use resetinventory they started to wearing them. It happened both on a new game, and an existing save. So I was trying to figure out what I have missed. I really wanted to make a mod to tweak crowd npcs and named npcs using the vanilla assets. Other mods here work just fine...
I am glad it is working for you now, I've never had that problem ingame both for crowd NPCs or normal NPCs like Jessamine, the clothes I assigned her in my Jessamine mod showed ingame right away. One probable cause could be if the NPCs have two clothes records of the same type, they tend to show up with the one that is more valuable, I think that's how it worked in FO4, I haven't tested if it is the same in Starfield.
Cool idea, but I'd like to see a more diverse one honestly. After humanity reaches the stars, there's no countries separating them, I'd expect Europeans to understand Japanese and so on. Like this mod for the clothes, hair, and body types though.
I could make a separate version that wouldn't touch the ancestry spawn rates and leave them at default vanilla rates (equal chance of spawning af, as, eu heads for the crowd outfits), it is a matter of adjusting just a few leveled lists.
Hi, yes it is compatible, I've just tested it. It touches only the mesh files and no item records, my mod uses default vanilla meshes which Thicc Civilian Outfits replaces, so no conflicts with my mod.
I feel like Akila should mostly be based on American ethnicities. Not mostly European. I'd think you'd see a great amount of black and hispanic population in Akila based on the lore.
The problem is that the crowd system has only three crowd types with corresponding meshes - european, asian, african (original naming in the game files) and each has a chance to spawn with a skin complexion ranging from lighter to darker. I haven't found a way yet to create another type and assign them a specific complexion so I could make a hispanic type for example and assign it its own spawn list for each location.
Really great thinking about the crowds in Starfield!
I use 2 other mods I really like concerning the crowd system: Crowd kids and Souls of cities. It would be good to know sometime ahead if they can work together with your mod and what you loose/gain with different setups, or maybe you already have looked into this?
I did a very quick test, using MO2 and LOOT. LOOT sorted your mod first, overwritten by Crowd kids, overwritten by Souls of cities. At least the game works with all three mods installed, but I haven't yet been able to figure out what is actually lost in your mod with this setup, if anything. I will do some more testing to see if I can figure that out. Any ideas about this?
It should be compatible with Crowd kids, because my mod doesn't touch any child records. Child citizen NPCs aren't part of the crowd system from what I've been able to discern in the creation kit, they seem to be placed manually at the locations. Souls of cities is an amazing mod that goes very deep in modifying the crowd system, I don't think it is compatible with my mod, because it has its own mechanisms and leveled lists. I am new to creation kit and I don't think I'll be able to make such features as in Souls of cities. Right now I am trying to figure out the values for the crowd head morphs and see if I can touch that too, to randomize the faces even more, because they tend to repeat if you use high crowd density setting.
New feature I am working on right now is to have location based hairstyle variation, to make some hairstyles more popular in New Atlantis than in other places etc. In vanilla base game, the crowd groups (Akila, Neon, New Atlantis) get hair types from the same lists with an equal chance to spawn any of them.
It won't work with souls of cities because it replaces generic crowd spawn in 4 major cities, but it will take effect everywhere else (minor cities etc.), or ryujin interior in Neon for example where generic crowd spawn takes place along with SOC. That's a cool mod option for those who don't have powerful enough rigs to use souls of cities, and the load order is right if you want to combine them, SOC after this one. Endorsed when i can :)
And you definitely should add it to creations, because it doesn't need SFSE and will work for consoles :)
41 comments
New Atlantis is a bit of a head scratcher, I would think as the capital of the UC that would be the most diverse without one ethnicity outweighing another. However with the limited residential living options, the Elitist feel of the towers, the availability of medical services, and the branches of government. I would expect that population to have the oldest residents. If any region in game needs a second city nearby where the younger population could afford to live it's definitely NA.
Akila being a stereotypical early American 'Western Frontier' type region, traditional norms would make it equal parts African, Hispanic, European. However there was a huge boon in Asian population on the frontier towards the end of Westward expansion aided by construction of railroads.
Of course that's all subjective and based on the fact that I am American.. so that's just my limited world view and experience.
Perhaps don't bother with ethnicities at all for this age of 'enhanced' cosmopolitan colonization, it would make more sense when you think about it. A stop to enhance costs the price of a restaurant and sex and skin color are a matter of tastes and fashion.
The style clothes and age variation is a really nice touch.
An interesting point, still not all citizens can afford it, especially in places like Ebbside or are willing to undertake the process etc. What I find more interesting is that it's possible to expand the system and make for example some hairstyles, clothes or hats to spawn only for a specific group. It is possible by adding leveled lists, outfits and NPC records. I could make for example, young citizens of asian ancestry in Neon only to have cyberfade and hairspray bob hairstyles etc. The more I delve into the system the more possibilities I see. I had to make a chart that shows how the leveled lists and outfits are connected, because it was too confusing at first.
I don't know if it's possible, that would be dope :)
Bethesda could have used this chance to change language and humanities primary accent, create an entire new way of speaking for 300 years into our future, Like they do with Elder Scrolls. Hell, the way we speak no a days is vastly different to 20 years ago, let alone 300. and many expressions/ usage of languages have changed as well.
I think it's not worth changing and correcting this point. There have always been hangers-on in any society who were together while everything was fine and who ran away when it was bad and needed to be united... Let them stay that way, enlivening and diversifying the world of NPCs... In reality, there are also many people who wear leather jackets of famous gangs and motorcycle gangs, but in fact they are not!
https://www.nexusmods.com/starfield/mods/8473
Is it perhaps possible that this clothing could be included in the pool of NPCs, including glasses & co. and the clothing is cooler and more modern overall, not from 1970. That would be a massive immersion upgrade. Just as an idea, please keep it up.. thanks. :)
Hairstyle list, does this mean that other mods relating to hairstyles are superfluous, or are they no longer taken into account by the game?
e.g. https://www.nexusmods.com/starfield/mods/8364
I could use this method to improve the crowds a bit more, like spawning a few gang NPCs like Strikers, Disciples, Seokguh syndicate among the crowd NPCs in Neon. I've tested it in Neon Spaceport by editing the crowd list for that area by adding a record with 100% chance to spawn a normal NPC in a swimsuit and leaving the records to spawn crowd spaceport technicians. Both NPC types spawned at their set chance. I had to modify the new normal swimsuit NPC a bit by changing the AI package to the crowd DefaultWander one but that was easy enough to do.
You are probably using the mod “Starfield Engine Fixes”. Only one further step is necessary.
You must activate this line in this path.
C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Starfield\Data\sfse\Plugins -> StarfieldEngineFixes.ini
Change bEngineLoadOptimizer=0 to “1”.
It's in German, but maybe it will help anyway.
hope it has helped
Regarding "...they will run when attacked, I haven't found a way around this yet." For me this is a feature not a problem. To have some "criminal scum" who are cowards, poseurs or simply have a completely rational desire to not die is an improvement.
I only need to change the outfits, so I replaced their inventories.
But when I played the new game or the existing save, they were wearing the same default ones.
I checked with showinventory, and they were actually carrying one of the items I assigned in the lists.
Only when I resetinventory on them, they started to wear them.
It happened on the named NPCs too.
Can you tell me what am I doing wrong?
For example NPC CrowdActor_Akila_Female_01 it has a default outfit Outfit_Crowds_Akila_Female set in the inventory tab. If you go to Items->Outfit in the main object window, you'll find the Outfit_Crowds_Akila_Female record there. If you then open the record, you can see what the outfit consists of. For NPC CrowdActor_Akila_Female_01 there are three leveled lists for clothes, for hairs and hats, for heads. You can delete the stuff you don't want from the outfit and add the one you want the NPC to wear, that can be done only by dragging the record of the clothes or leveled list from the object window to the outfit window. For normal NPC actors, like Jessamine Griffith for example, she has only one item in her default outfit Outfit_Elite_JessamineGriffin and that's Clothes_Trucker_Tee_Jacket_01, if you delete that record from the outfit window and drag a record Clothes_Naked_Body_SwimSuit to the outfit window, she should be wearing a swimsuit instead next time you open her actor NPC record. Or at least for me it works immediately after changing the outfit record. Normal NPCs also another another default outfit for spacesuits. It works the same, so by editing Jessamine's Outfit_Spacesuit_Elite_JessamineGriffin you can replace her default Shocktroop spacesuit with Crimson Fleet spacesuit etc.
Nice concept though!
Like I said, it's a f*#@ing nice concept though 😁.
compatible with this mod?
Thicc Civilian Outfits
https://www.nexusmods.com/starfield/mods/6645
thanks :)
I use 2 other mods I really like concerning the crowd system: Crowd kids and Souls of cities. It would be good to know sometime ahead if they can work together with your mod and what you loose/gain with different setups, or maybe you already have looked into this?
I did a very quick test, using MO2 and LOOT. LOOT sorted your mod first, overwritten by Crowd kids, overwritten by Souls of cities. At least the game works with all three mods installed, but I haven't yet been able to figure out what is actually lost in your mod with this setup, if anything. I will do some more testing to see if I can figure that out. Any ideas about this?
That's a cool mod option for those who don't have powerful enough rigs to use souls of cities, and the load order is right if you want to combine them, SOC after this one. Endorsed when i can :)
And you definitely should add it to creations, because it doesn't need SFSE and will work for consoles :)