Congrats! I read through the mod page, its a really neat system, well made and captures elements of both KYE and TA to make something new. Now you can start planning your next mod! (only joking)
Hah! Thanks! I still have a lot of work to do on KYTA to make it as good as I can. I get the feeling it’s going to become a bit of a time sink for me, but it’s fun, so that’s OK.
With your help and a lot of banging my head against the wall, I've managed to create my own armor mod that is a sort of blend between this and True Armor. I've got it working and ready to publish, but I have one small problem:
I don't know how to make the file (.pex) to distribute the perk to the player.
I know I could just ask people to add it via console, and I'll do that if necessary, but it seems sloppy. Are you willing to perhaps help me compile a file for my mod? (I have no idea if what I'm asking you is a huge time sink. If it is, please tell me and I'll apologize and forget about it)
Hey, happy to help. To create compiled script files you need to use the CK. My usual approach is to make a new question, flag it to run once and be start game enabled. Click OK to close the quest window, then reopen it and go to the script tab. Add a new script. Call it whatever you want, then the contents should be something like this:
Scriptname <name of your script> extends Quest
actor property PlayerRef auto perk property <name of your perk> auto
event oninit() PlayerRef.addPerk(<name of your perk>) debug.notification("<name of your mod> initialized.") endevent
Then save and compile the script, then click "properties" and fill in the script properties. After that save and exit the CK and it should work, just make sure to bundle the scripts with your mod when you release it.I hope this helps, let me know if you have other questions.
As usual, you're super helpful. I followed your instructions, and I copied and pasted what you wrote. I compiled the script, and it produced a .pex file. But when I tested it, the perk was not added to my character. When I checked the file in Xedit, it didn't have any properties.
So my question is this: When you say to "fill in the script properties", what exactly do you mean? I have absolutely zero experience with the CK, so the more specific you can be, the better.
I need to know what to enter for Type (I chose Perk), Name (I assume this is whatever I want), Array Box (left it unchecked), Initial Value (I have no clue), and Documentation String. I copied and pasted the same info from before into the documentation string, but that was apparently wrong. Oh, and what do you mean by "bundle your scripts"? Does that just mean to make a "Scripts" folder in my mod and put the .pex file into it? That's what I did.
Also, I would like to have you take a look at my mod before I publish it officially. I think I was careful to not use any of your (or anyone else's) assets, although I absolutely did copy the overall format and approach you used to make your perks. Hopefully that's okay. I don't want to get in trouble or make anyone angry.
No worries, happy to help. It sounds like you are making good progress.
Script properties are one of the least intuitive parts of papyrus programming. So there are two parts to making script properties. The first is to declare the property in your script, like this:
perk property <name of your perk> auto
This means that within your script there is some property and your script knows it is a perk. However, right now its just an empty placeholder for a perk. To actually put the perk in to in, you need to exit the script editor and look at the list of scripts attached to your quest (you'll only have one). Select the script (but don't open it) then click the properties button. Here's an image: https://ck.uesp.net/wiki/Scripts_Tab
With the properties window open, you should see a list with your two properties (or how ever many you have). If you don't see them your script did not compile correctly. For each property, you select it then click "edit value" then choose the perk (or whatever) from the long list. If you gave your properties the exact same name as the perk itself, then you can use "auto fill all" to automate this process. Here's another image: https://ck.uesp.net/wiki/Scripts#Properties
> Oh, and what do you mean by "bundle your scripts"? Does that just mean to make a "Scripts" folder in my mod and put the .pex file into it? That's what I did. Yeah, that's it. I also include the uncompiled scripts in scripts/source (or is it source/scripts, I can't remember) so others can read it too.
> Also, I would like to have you take a look at my mod before I publish it officially. I think I was careful to not use any of your (or anyone else's) assets, although I absolutely did copy the overall format and approach you used to make your perks. Hopefully that's okay. I don't want to get in trouble or make anyone angry. If you send it to me I can take a quick look, but I don't actually have skyrim installed at the moment so can't test it. Using other people scripts as inspiration is fine. Personally I don't mind if you include a few scripts too, as long as you don't include the entire esp! :-)
I feel like I am just one tiny step away from having this done. I generated the files and put them in my mod. When I loaded the game, I can see that the quest is there by checking with the console. But the perk is STILL not being added automatically. When I looked in Xedit, I saw the quest with two properties, and I confirmed that one was the correct perk and the other was a PlayerRef. Could the fact that I created the .esp and everything in it using Xedit be causing problems? What about the fact that I already flagged it as a .esl?
I'm going to walk you through EXACTLY what steps I'm taking so that you can hopefully point out where I'm going wrong:
1. Open the working copy of my mod which is stored in a folder on the desktop. Drag and drop the .7z file into the right pane of MO2. Install and activate the mod. 2. Run CK through MO2 and set my mod as active 3. Click the Quests tab and create a new quest. Ensure that "Start Game Enabled" and "Run Once" are checked (they are by default). Leave the quest name blank. Give it an ID # (I entered "KYTA") and then hit OK. 4. Open the quest and go to Scripts. Add new script. 5. Name the script kyta_perk_adder and make sure "Quest" appears in the Extends box (default). 6. Enter the following in the Documentation String (This is copied and pasted):
Scriptname kyta_perk_adder extends Quest actor property PlayerRef auto perk property KYTA_Player_Perk auto event oninit() PlayerRef.addperk(KYTA_Player_Perk) debug.notification("KYTA initialized") endevent
7. Click ok. The script should compile automatically. Save. 8. Select Script and click on Properties. 9. There are no properties, so I have to add two (Perk and PlayerRef) 10. Click Add Property. For the first Property - Type: Perk / - Name: KYTA_Player_Perk 11. Leave Initial Value blank and don't touch anything else. Leave the documentation string box blank, and click OK. 12. Property now shows up with a pencil icon next to it. 13. Repeat the previous step, entering Type: - Object / - Name: PlayerRef. Again, leave everything else alone and click OK. 14. My second property shows up with another pencil icon. 15. Click OK. Save and exit. 16. In the left pane of MO2, right click my mod and "Explore". Create two new folders. Scripts and Source/Scripts. 16. Go to the Overwrite folder of MO2. Find the Scripts folder. My .pex file is there. I cut and paste it into a newly created Scripts Folder in my mod. Do the same for the .psc file. 17. Start new game and....nothing. The console shows that there is a quest. But it doesn't get added to my character. Quit in frustration. 18. Check Xedit to compare and contrast my Quest with the kye2a_init_quest, and aside from the spell property in your quest, our properties are identical. The ONLY differences in the quest record are that your flags include Run Once, Start Game Enabled, and Starts Enabled, while mine only have Start Game Enabled and Run Once. I do not see an option in the CK for Starts Enabled. Yours also has the "Full Name" box filled. I'm guessing that means I just need to name my quest when I create it, but I can't see that being the thing causing this to fail.
And that's it. I hit a wall.
Below, I copied and pasted what appears in the .psc file I generated:
Scriptname kyta_perk_adder extends Quest {Scriptname kyta_perk_adder extends Quest actor property PlayerRef auto perk property KYTA_Player_Perk auto event oninit() PlayerRef.addperk(KYTA_Player_Perk) debug.notification("KYTA initialized") endevent} Perk Property KYTA_Player_Perk Auto ObjectReference Property PlayerRef Auto
So this bit is definitely a sign something is wrong:
8. Select Script and click on Properties. 9. There are no properties, so I have to add two (Perk and PlayerRef)
If your script is functioning correctly the properties should be there already. Also, your final script looks weird - it's like your script gets wrapped in curly brackets and put inside another script.
Could you be creating a script fragment on the quest stages tab, as opposed to making a script on the script tab?
Ah no, wait, I got it! This is your error:
> 6. Enter the following in the Documentation String
OK, don't enter your script in the doc string, this is where you put comments to help other people read your script. Instead leave that blank and just click ok. Then, right click on your script in the script list and select "edit source" that will bring up the script editor. That's where you put your script. Then save and add properties etc.
That was it! I knew it had to be something simple. I can't begin to explain how grateful I am for your help. Now I can get on with the business of publishing my mod.
I've just been catching up on Dequitem and Scholar Gladitoria's two awesome back and forth videos on Youtube discussing ideal weapons for defeating full/plate armor types in one on one combat, especially the mace and great (two-handed) sword. Regardless of which of those guys is "right", I think it's clear the two-handed sword, with its unique techniques like half-swording is a solid contender for defeating armor.
That got me wondering, would it be possible for KYE2A to differentiate two-handers? For example, making two handed bladed better at defeating heavy. It would be more complexity, but one vs two handed in Skyrim is a fairly "top-level" concept.
This is definitely doable and I did think about this when making the mod. This issue is that, if two handed weapons are good against armor, what are one handed weapons for? Unless one-handed weapons had some distinct advantage this just makes two handed weapons the better choice which is bad for game balance. And two-handed weapons already deal more damage. You might say that one-handed weapons let you keep something in your off hand (like a shield or spell) and this is true, but two handed weapons can be used to block anyway, and hotkeys making switching weapons/spells easy. For all these reasons I decided not to differentiate one and two handed weapons. What do you think?
Good point. In most semi-recent combat stacks, shields are not anything like the defensive powerhouses they would have to be give how common they are in the game world nor to match in-game laws of physics. The way vanilla and almost all combat stacks balance defense, the denizens of Skyrim would likely never use shields, probably never have invented shields in the first place.
I'm currently playing with the stack of Chocolate Poise Plus, Precision, Valhalla, Blade and Blunt, TK Dodge RE, and KYE* set to 4 across the board. I've hand edited a bit to tone down B&B's 2H speed/stamina insanity and dial back up from B&B shield nerfing. Both Precision and Poise also both drastically nerf long and slow weapons in specific circumstances for the better and make shield blocking more rewarding.
In that stack, you can make devastating use of 2H. But the timing has to be perfect and there has to be plenty of space to swing without hitstopping a wall or tree. Mistime a swing and Poise+ gets you killed. Swing into a wall or tree and Precision gets you killed. Step inside a slow enemy swing and hit with a fast 1H sword and Poise+ rewards you greatly. The only drawback I really feel in this stack is that once I get into heavy armor, enemies with greatswords are just bouncing off me instead of being my greatest threat. And that I can't really play the plate-covered, half-swording scourge I sometimes feel like!
Once I got more into the thinking and watched a few more of Dequitem's analysis videos, I realized it's not really about 1H vs 2H. It really just comes down to long and great swords being very good at defeating armor and blunt weapons being shockingly bad at that. Of course, if you put that reality into a game (or a game mod) you'll soon be playing tower defense against millions of internet trolls breathlessly telling you about the power of maces and the real reason HMS Hood sunk. :)
Anyway, I don't have good ideas to offer. Everything I've thought of turns into a complicated mess for you to maintain/explain with only marginally funner play for most people other than me. If it was easy (hah) to let players match weapon type to resist levels in the MCM, that'd solve it. But my instinct is that alone would 2X the code complexity compared to the whole mod without it.
Thanks for your thoughts. You're right about reception - KYE makes draugr resistant to maces, and it did make heavy armor resistant to maces at one point too, both of these rankle people who are used to fantasy tropes. I do see your point about heavy armor becoming too good though, but yeah, with KYE2 is blunt weapons, not greatswords, you want to look out for.
Oh gosh, I really want to try these new KYE2 out.. but I want more to try this Skyrim Arrow Overhaul but I'm pretty sure they won't play super nicely together without patching. I have my suspicions that the synthesis patch isn't gonna get'r done.
I'm not sure. I don't use SAO don't don't really know how it works under the hood. My guess is that will at least partially patch the armors. Maybe ask the patch creator?
Good point, I should ask there. Thank you for your time. If you can spare enough for one more question, I'm wondering if I should be worrying about patches for armor mods. Like Immersive Armors, Armor Variants Expansion, various one off armor mods (e.g. College Prestige, Toughened Traveler, etc.) I'd presume so, but perhaps through various distributors I do not need to?
KYE2 is more robust than KYE1 with regards to mod added armors so you will be fine almost all the time. Only risk is that sometimes you won't get the shock resistance or weakness due to leather/metal/etc, but the rest should work all the time.
Wearing a cuirass and full set gives me a Resist Sneak buff, reducing damage taken from sneak attacks. But as the player I'm never taking a sneak attack, only dealing them.
Going through the files it shows the Sneak and Illusion buff under the player perks, not NPC. Am I misunderstanding it or should this be under the NPC perk?
This is all fine. There's no way to modifying incoming sneak damage, only outgoing sneak damage. So the player's outgoing sneak damage is modified according to the target's intelligence. Same for illusion, though in that case I think it could be done the other way round too.
Very informal playing around with KYE2A and Blade and Blunt vs KYE2A and Valvalis. Both with and without ARO. The difference between KYE2A setting 1 and setting 4 seems smaller with B&B than with Valvalis and overall much, much less impactful under B&B. 4 under B&B feels like 1 or 2 under Valvalis. Again, just a very quick, non-definitive play around.
Question: Is there some way for a big combat overhaul mod like B&B to "counteract" KYE2 directly or indirectly. Something I might look for in the ESP. Maybe some way of ignoring resistance, or maybe just something unrelated that only makes it look to a player like some resistance is not applying?
Interesting, I have never heard of this before. As far as I know there is no way for another mod to counteract KYE2. KYE2 just multiplies damage, e.g. multiplying it by 0.5 for a 50% resistance. The only way to counteract it would be for a mod to multiply the same damage by a value > 1, but I don't think B&B does this. All I can think is that B&B's combat is generally slower, and maybe this gives the impression of resistances mattering less?
Thanks. I only noticed anything because I was doing back to back tests of exactly the same fights with B&B and Valvalis. I hate archers under B&B and had been hoping to see KYE2A counteracting those one-shot wonders under B&B. Unfortunately, even dialed up to 4, the reduction barely brings B&B's anti-tank guided missiles arrows and infantry fighting vehicles archers down to "normal" threat levels. :) I mean 4 in KYE2 is plenty! It shouldn't be in-scope for KYE2 to "fix" other mods.
Other than being only slightly bummed about the archers, I'm quite enjoying the stack of KYE2+A at 4, ARO Full, B&B, Dragon War, Choco Poise Plus, Precision, and Valhalla.
Anyway, thanks again for taking the time to help me better understand what I see here.
No worries. Odd that you are having so much difficulty with archers. I also use B&B and don't recall that myself. I was playing a glass-cannon mage, and even with 100 hp I could take multiple arrows before dying. That said, I was using armor spells, so maybe that helped a bit. Still, I wouldn't expect a warrior to have much difficulty. And if you wear a heavy cuirass with KYE2A you should be pretty sturdy.
I don't really see your logic. The properties of metal that would make it weak to fire (conductivity) would also make it weak to frost and shock. As it is, for balance reasons I use only the shock weakness as otherwise shock is useless against armor.
150 comments
Please post below any thoughts, questions or concerns. I try to maintain an active (and friendly) presence in the comments :-)
Thanks for your downloads, comments and endorsements.
Vokrii
Mysticism
Scion
Man beast
Aetherius
With your help and a lot of banging my head against the wall, I've managed to create my own armor mod that is a sort of blend between this and True Armor. I've got it working and ready to publish, but I have one small problem:
I don't know how to make the file (.pex) to distribute the perk to the player.
I know I could just ask people to add it via console, and I'll do that if necessary, but it seems sloppy. Are you willing to perhaps help me compile a file for my mod? (I have no idea if what I'm asking you is a huge time sink. If it is, please tell me and I'll apologize and forget about it)
Scriptname <name of your script> extends Quest
actor property PlayerRef auto
perk property <name of your perk> auto
event oninit()
PlayerRef.addPerk(<name of your perk>)
debug.notification("<name of your mod> initialized.")
endevent
Then save and compile the script, then click "properties" and fill in the script properties. After that save and exit the CK and it should work, just make sure to bundle the scripts with your mod when you release it.I hope this helps, let me know if you have other questions.
So my question is this: When you say to "fill in the script properties", what exactly do you mean? I have absolutely zero experience with the CK, so the more specific you can be, the better.
I need to know what to enter for Type (I chose Perk), Name (I assume this is whatever I want), Array Box (left it unchecked), Initial Value (I have no clue), and Documentation String. I copied and pasted the same info from before into the documentation string, but that was apparently wrong. Oh, and what do you mean by "bundle your scripts"? Does that just mean to make a "Scripts" folder in my mod and put the .pex file into it? That's what I did.
Also, I would like to have you take a look at my mod before I publish it officially. I think I was careful to not use any of your (or anyone else's) assets, although I absolutely did copy the overall format and approach you used to make your perks. Hopefully that's okay. I don't want to get in trouble or make anyone angry.
Thanks my friend.
Script properties are one of the least intuitive parts of papyrus programming. So there are two parts to making script properties. The first is to declare the property in your script, like this:
perk property <name of your perk> auto
This means that within your script there is some property and your script knows it is a perk. However, right now its just an empty placeholder for a perk. To actually put the perk in to in, you need to exit the script editor and look at the list of scripts attached to your quest (you'll only have one). Select the script (but don't open it) then click the properties button. Here's an image: https://ck.uesp.net/wiki/Scripts_Tab
With the properties window open, you should see a list with your two properties (or how ever many you have). If you don't see them your script did not compile correctly. For each property, you select it then click "edit value" then choose the perk (or whatever) from the long list. If you gave your properties the exact same name as the perk itself, then you can use "auto fill all" to automate this process. Here's another image: https://ck.uesp.net/wiki/Scripts#Properties
> Oh, and what do you mean by "bundle your scripts"? Does that just mean to make a "Scripts" folder in my mod and put the .pex file into it? That's what I did.
Yeah, that's it. I also include the uncompiled scripts in scripts/source (or is it source/scripts, I can't remember) so others can read it too.
> Also, I would like to have you take a look at my mod before I publish it officially. I think I was careful to not use any of your (or anyone else's) assets, although I absolutely did copy the overall format and approach you used to make your perks. Hopefully that's okay. I don't want to get in trouble or make anyone angry.
If you send it to me I can take a quick look, but I don't actually have skyrim installed at the moment so can't test it. Using other people scripts as inspiration is fine. Personally I don't mind if you include a few scripts too, as long as you don't include the entire esp! :-)
I'm going to walk you through EXACTLY what steps I'm taking so that you can hopefully point out where I'm going wrong:
1. Open the working copy of my mod which is stored in a folder on the desktop. Drag and drop the .7z file into the right pane of MO2. Install and activate the mod.
2. Run CK through MO2 and set my mod as active
3. Click the Quests tab and create a new quest. Ensure that "Start Game Enabled" and "Run Once" are checked (they are by default). Leave the quest name blank. Give it an ID # (I entered "KYTA") and then hit OK.
4. Open the quest and go to Scripts. Add new script.
5. Name the script kyta_perk_adder and make sure "Quest" appears in the Extends box (default).
6. Enter the following in the Documentation String (This is copied and pasted):
Scriptname kyta_perk_adder extends Quest
actor property PlayerRef auto
perk property KYTA_Player_Perk auto
event oninit()
PlayerRef.addperk(KYTA_Player_Perk)
debug.notification("KYTA initialized")
endevent
7. Click ok. The script should compile automatically. Save.
8. Select Script and click on Properties.
9. There are no properties, so I have to add two (Perk and PlayerRef)
10. Click Add Property. For the first Property - Type: Perk / - Name: KYTA_Player_Perk
11. Leave Initial Value blank and don't touch anything else. Leave the documentation string box blank, and click OK.
12. Property now shows up with a pencil icon next to it.
13. Repeat the previous step, entering Type: - Object / - Name: PlayerRef. Again, leave everything else alone and click OK.
14. My second property shows up with another pencil icon.
15. Click OK. Save and exit.
16. In the left pane of MO2, right click my mod and "Explore". Create two new folders. Scripts and Source/Scripts.
16. Go to the Overwrite folder of MO2. Find the Scripts folder. My .pex file is there. I cut and paste it into a newly created Scripts Folder in my mod. Do the same for the .psc file.
17. Start new game and....nothing. The console shows that there is a quest. But it doesn't get added to my character. Quit in frustration.
18. Check Xedit to compare and contrast my Quest with the kye2a_init_quest, and aside from the spell property in your quest, our properties are identical. The ONLY differences in the quest record are that your flags include Run Once, Start Game Enabled, and Starts Enabled, while mine only have Start Game Enabled and Run Once. I do not see an option in the CK for Starts Enabled. Yours also has the "Full Name" box filled. I'm guessing that means I just need to name my quest when I create it, but I can't see that being the thing causing this to fail.
And that's it. I hit a wall.
Below, I copied and pasted what appears in the .psc file I generated:
Scriptname kyta_perk_adder extends Quest
{Scriptname kyta_perk_adder extends Quest
actor property PlayerRef auto
perk property KYTA_Player_Perk auto
event oninit()
PlayerRef.addperk(KYTA_Player_Perk)
debug.notification("KYTA initialized")
endevent}
Perk Property KYTA_Player_Perk Auto
ObjectReference Property PlayerRef Auto
8. Select Script and click on Properties. 9. There are no properties, so I have to add two (Perk and PlayerRef)
If your script is functioning correctly the properties should be there already. Also, your final script looks weird - it's like your script gets wrapped in curly brackets and put inside another script.
Could you be creating a script fragment on the quest stages tab, as opposed to making a script on the script tab?
Ah no, wait, I got it! This is your error:
> 6. Enter the following in the Documentation String
OK, don't enter your script in the doc string, this is where you put comments to help other people read your script. Instead leave that blank and just click ok. Then, right click on your script in the script list and select "edit source" that will bring up the script editor. That's where you put your script. Then save and add properties etc.
You're the best!
That got me wondering, would it be possible for KYE2A to differentiate two-handers? For example, making two handed bladed better at defeating heavy. It would be more complexity, but one vs two handed in Skyrim is a fairly "top-level" concept.
I'm currently playing with the stack of Chocolate Poise Plus, Precision, Valhalla, Blade and Blunt, TK Dodge RE, and KYE* set to 4 across the board. I've hand edited a bit to tone down B&B's 2H speed/stamina insanity and dial back up from B&B shield nerfing. Both Precision and Poise also both drastically nerf long and slow weapons in specific circumstances for the better and make shield blocking more rewarding.
In that stack, you can make devastating use of 2H. But the timing has to be perfect and there has to be plenty of space to swing without hitstopping a wall or tree. Mistime a swing and Poise+ gets you killed. Swing into a wall or tree and Precision gets you killed. Step inside a slow enemy swing and hit with a fast 1H sword and Poise+ rewards you greatly. The only drawback I really feel in this stack is that once I get into heavy armor, enemies with greatswords are just bouncing off me instead of being my greatest threat. And that I can't really play the plate-covered, half-swording scourge I sometimes feel like!
Once I got more into the thinking and watched a few more of Dequitem's analysis videos, I realized it's not really about 1H vs 2H. It really just comes down to long and great swords being very good at defeating armor and blunt weapons being shockingly bad at that. Of course, if you put that reality into a game (or a game mod) you'll soon be playing tower defense against millions of internet trolls breathlessly telling you about the power of maces and the real reason HMS Hood sunk. :)
Anyway, I don't have good ideas to offer. Everything I've thought of turns into a complicated mess for you to maintain/explain with only marginally funner play for most people other than me. If it was easy (hah) to let players match weapon type to resist levels in the MCM, that'd solve it. But my instinct is that alone would 2X the code complexity compared to the whole mod without it.
If you can spare enough for one more question, I'm wondering if I should be worrying about patches for armor mods. Like Immersive Armors, Armor Variants Expansion, various one off armor mods (e.g. College Prestige, Toughened Traveler, etc.) I'd presume so, but perhaps through various distributors I do not need to?
But as the player I'm never taking a sneak attack, only dealing them.
Going through the files it shows the Sneak and Illusion buff under the player perks, not NPC.
Am I misunderstanding it or should this be under the NPC perk?
Question: Is there some way for a big combat overhaul mod like B&B to "counteract" KYE2 directly or indirectly. Something I might look for in the ESP. Maybe some way of ignoring resistance, or maybe just something unrelated that only makes it look to a player like some resistance is not applying?
anti-tank guided missilesarrows andinfantry fighting vehiclesarchers down to "normal" threat levels. :) I mean 4 in KYE2 is plenty! It shouldn't be in-scope for KYE2 to "fix" other mods.Other than being only slightly bummed about the archers, I'm quite enjoying the stack of KYE2+A at 4, ARO Full, B&B, Dragon War, Choco Poise Plus, Precision, and Valhalla.
Anyway, thanks again for taking the time to help me better understand what I see here.