Wait a minute. You are also the author of CBBE 3BA right? Is it not possible to change the issue with joints at fundamental level? Or is the problem something inherited from base CBBE?
The fundamental problem lies in skeleton and animation And 3D animations and 3D latest games can have this issue even not skyrim But unlike skyrim they have solutions and fixed it
The reason is that when you bend a straw like knees Just think about bending once or bending more than twice so when once bent, it looks the same as Skyrim's knee but more than twice is not
Or there are ways that animators can refrain from such movements or manually release joint restrictions and add correction But this requires the animators have to do more work and a lot of understanding of the animation
This is just an example and there are other ways to solve this problem besides adding joints but skyrim is a 2011 game so unlike other latest games these modifications have not been added
Other than fundamentally solving, there are ways to prevent them from being easily noticed even not solve the issue Few of them includes bone weights, mesh shape, bone position the less noticeable it when the thicker the thigh or don't use some sliders that break the mesh mapped to bone position like the Knee height slider
and there is a difference in bone weights bone weights are actually a double-edged sword
Below is a comparison bone weights and top is CBBE and bottom is BHUNP
a weak bend
Spoiler:
Show
CBBE is natural but BHUNP is caved
a middle bend
Spoiler:
Show
They both looks okay
a strong bend
Spoiler:
Show
CBBE is totally clipping but BHUNP is less more than CBBE
CBBE making it look natural when without that animation but has left this issue to the animators BHUNP making it look natural in that animation but prayed that the user would not notice any other problem
The result was that the most animators did not add correction or added not enough a correction about it and people are paying attention to the problem and didn't notice other problem That's the main reason CBBE feels like it's a big knee problem
But the fundamental problem is skeleton and animation from the 2011 game so it's just like licks the surface and it's like fighting over who's hiding it well, not just solved or unsolved
anyway the purpose of this mod is to insert a manual correction that the animators have not added in real time so it can fix the bone joint issue and reduce the work of animators because it is automated
Okay, an interesting observation. For some reason on my LO (400+mods), when I remove and/or add new mods (I am not within the limit of esp/espfe) I do keep CTDs upon loading save games. This applies to even simpliest mods, like an outfit ones, without any scripts/quests.
Crash logger kept reporting fHDTSMP and MuJoint in the logs, but I needed to redo a lot of stuff with the LO I just decided to abandon the save and after editing LO start a new game.
And yet it happened again - while I only added 1 outfit mod, I can no longer load my save. What is interesting tho, is that it only applies to Autosave and Quicksave - the earlier created normal savegame works fine - despite the fact that mod difference is the same between them.
Can you please confirm if it is or not related to these two?
PS Okay, scratch the above. Uninstalling MuJoint results in completely same behaviour, thus it is for sure not related.
PSS Not even related to physics. Removed MuJoint, fHDTSMP and CBPC - same result, auto/quick saves are CTDing, while normal saves do not - just crash logger no longer mention them.
Most of the time when you have a CTD , crash loger will point these modes at the top, and they are not actually the cause, scroll further down, and look at the mod with the highest call. If the crash log does not show the cause then you have a mod with incorrect meshes or occlusion issues. Lighting modes usually don't show up if you have a lighting problem.
I assume it has something to do with specifically quick/autosaves and changing LO, in particular changing ESPFE order. I tried cleaning the save, tried running NifScan (and fixed some broken meshes it found), fixed some errors in .esp files with xEdit - all the same, it keeps crashing on load, while normally loading the manual saves.
even it exists in log, doesn't necessarily mean it caused problems
when you look at [ 0] 0x7FFDF96A3D84 SchlongsOfSkyrim.dll+0013D84 num 0 is where the crash happened, so you can see where it happened
but even if you know where the crash pointthere are times when don't know why it happened in particular, you won't know under what circumstances it was loaded [ 1] 0x7FFDFDCA86FFskse64_1_6_640.dll+00886FF num 1 is the function that was loaded just before the num 0 function was loaded It is directly related to num 0 (crash point) and if you look into it, you can see why
of course, there are times when you don't know why even you look into this then you can look into the line num 2 right below it but compared to num 1, it's less relevant to num 0
the more you go down, and the bigger the line number, most likely not related to the crash so you should focus only on lines with moderately small numbers
[12] 0x7FFDFA92A8B9hdtSMP64.dll+00BA8B9 [13] 0x7FFDFA2E5EC7 MuJointFix.dll+0025EC7 so its line numbers 12 and 13 are very far from the crash point you don't deserve to look into it
so at least to be relevant, you need to find it within 5 lines yeah, you won't find out just by address so i know you have no choice but to focus on the familiar names that are written to investigate it in detail, you need to reverse engineering yourself using IDA but with these rules in the call stack, at least you can see if it relevant with the crash even without IDA
btw, In your log, it happened in SOS there was a crash while reading save data in SOS
it is a famous crash and if you investigate the SOS crash, you'll get a lot of relevant info The SMP and MuJointFix shown there are only putting them on the call stack to load themselves when the frame is first called and nothing is actually loaded
also the save load is also done at the beginning of the frame so it's not relevant, but it's just marked together because it's close in time
Thats definitely help to understand it better. My hugest regards for this detailed explanation. Will look closer to SoS.
PS Yes, it is SoS, and yes, workaround works. Remove SchlongsOfSkyrim.dll from you SKSE folder, load save, make a new manual save, quit, place dll back and you are good to go. Thanks again. I am glad I have not yet deleted the saves I thought are dead.
Here is the replacement .dll file fix for SoS.dll file so you can download more mods. I don't know if I can paste the links here but if not please tell me after you read how so I can remove it. It is an old thread pre-anniversary edition but I think it will work in any version of the game
Needf help figuring this one out. This happens particularly common with multiple female mannequins. The Safehouse in LOTD for example. https://pastebin.com/W3ZsQ8xf
So, I am on a new install and running 1.6.1130 I am crashing when trying to start a new playthrough. I tried removing the SOS.dll but still crashing. My crash log : 2024-01-27-04-09-05.log - Pastebin.com Maybe I am not seeing something, or I have done something wrong. Does anyone have any
advice for me? Thanks in advance.
Update: I removed SOS, HDTSMP, and Mu Joint. I launched again to see what would happen and crashed again. This was the new crash log: 2024-01-27-04-38-00.log - Pastebin.com in case it helps.
Update: It turns out my issue was within one of my JK's Interiors Patches. I got that all settled and now my WASD keys don't work.
Thank you for this detailed informations. Tried to follow all links and ideas in the sticky but I just get CTDs. Is there anyone can explain the rutine of making this run with SOS?
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And 3D animations and 3D latest games can have this issue even not skyrim
But unlike skyrim they have solutions and fixed it
The reason is that when you bend a straw like knees
Just think about bending once or bending more than twice
so when once bent, it looks the same as Skyrim's knee
but more than twice is not
Or there are ways that animators can refrain from such movements or manually release joint restrictions and add correction
But this requires the animators have to do more work and a lot of understanding of the animation
This is just an example and there are other ways to solve this problem besides adding joints
but skyrim is a 2011 game so unlike other latest games these modifications have not been added
Other than fundamentally solving, there are ways to prevent them from being easily noticed even not solve the issue
Few of them includes bone weights, mesh shape, bone position
the less noticeable it when the thicker the thigh or don't use some sliders that break the mesh mapped to bone position like the Knee height slider
and there is a difference in bone weights
bone weights are actually a double-edged sword
Below is a comparison bone weights
and top is CBBE and bottom is BHUNP
a weak bend
CBBE is natural but BHUNP is caved
a middle bend
They both looks okay
a strong bend
CBBE is totally clipping but BHUNP is less more than CBBE
CBBE making it look natural when without that animation but has left this issue to the animators
BHUNP making it look natural in that animation but prayed that the user would not notice any other problem
The result was that the most animators did not add correction or added not enough a correction about it
and people are paying attention to the problem and didn't notice other problem
That's the main reason CBBE feels like it's a big knee problem
But the fundamental problem is skeleton and animation from the 2011 game so it's just like licks the surface
and it's like fighting over who's hiding it well, not just solved or unsolved
anyway the purpose of this mod is to insert a manual correction that the animators have not added in real time
so it can fix the bone joint issue and reduce the work of animators because it is automated
Sorry for taking up so much of your time.
please post entire crash log
If you don't know how to generate crash logs
please use Crash Logger
And you can use controlc or pastebin or spoiler to post that long log
if there are definitive conditions for your crash
then let me know that conditions
if not, i can't do anything without crash log
For some reason on my LO (400+mods), when I remove and/or add new mods (I am not within the limit of esp/espfe) I do keep CTDs upon loading save games. This applies to even simpliest mods, like an outfit ones, without any scripts/quests.
Crash logger kept reporting fHDTSMP and MuJoint in the logs, but I needed to redo a lot of stuff with the LO I just decided to abandon the save and after editing LO start a new game.
And yet it happened again - while I only added 1 outfit mod, I can no longer load my save.
What is interesting tho, is that it only applies to Autosave and Quicksave - the earlier created normal savegame works fine - despite the fact that mod difference is the same between them.
And yet again crashlogger keeps mentioning fHDTSMP and MuJoint.
Can you please confirm if it is or not related to these two?
PS
Okay, scratch the above.
Uninstalling MuJoint results in completely same behaviour, thus it is for sure not related.
PSS
Not even related to physics.
Removed MuJoint, fHDTSMP and CBPC - same result, auto/quick saves are CTDing, while normal saves do not - just crash logger no longer mention them.
I tried cleaning the save, tried running NifScan (and fixed some broken meshes it found), fixed some errors in .esp files with xEdit - all the same, it keeps crashing on load, while normally loading the manual saves.
when you look at
[ 0] 0x7FFDF96A3D84 SchlongsOfSkyrim.dll+0013D84
num 0 is where the crash happened, so you can see where it happened
but even if you know where the crash pointthere are times when don't know why it happened
in particular, you won't know under what circumstances it was loaded
[ 1] 0x7FFDFDCA86FFskse64_1_6_640.dll+00886FF
num 1 is the function that was loaded just before the num 0 function was loaded
It is directly related to num 0 (crash point) and if you look into it, you can see why
of course, there are times when you don't know why even you look into this
then you can look into the line num 2 right below it
but compared to num 1, it's less relevant to num 0
the more you go down, and the bigger the line number, most likely not related to the crash
so you should focus only on lines with moderately small numbers
[12] 0x7FFDFA92A8B9hdtSMP64.dll+00BA8B9
[13] 0x7FFDFA2E5EC7 MuJointFix.dll+0025EC7
so its line numbers 12 and 13 are very far from the crash point
you don't deserve to look into it
so at least to be relevant, you need to find it within 5 lines
yeah, you won't find out just by address
so i know you have no choice but to focus on the familiar names that are written
to investigate it in detail, you need to reverse engineering yourself using IDA
but with these rules in the call stack, at least you can see if it relevant with the crash even without IDA
btw, In your log, it happened in SOS
there was a crash while reading save data in SOS
it is a famous crash and if you investigate the SOS crash, you'll get a lot of relevant info
The SMP and MuJointFix shown there are only putting them on the call stack to load themselves when the frame is first called
and nothing is actually loaded
also the save load is also done at the beginning of the frame
so it's not relevant, but it's just marked together because it's close in time
Will look closer to SoS.
PS
Yes, it is SoS, and yes, workaround works.
Remove SchlongsOfSkyrim.dll from you SKSE folder, load save, make a new manual save, quit, place dll back and you are good to go.
Thanks again. I am glad I have not yet deleted the saves I thought are dead.
https://www.loverslab.com/topic/180467-schlongs-of-skyrim-dll-ctd-fix/page/2/#comment-3779387
https://pastebin.com/W3ZsQ8xf
Update: I removed SOS, HDTSMP, and Mu Joint. I launched again to see what would happen and crashed again. This was the new crash log: 2024-01-27-04-38-00.log - Pastebin.com in case it helps.
Update: It turns out my issue was within one of my JK's Interiors Patches. I got that all settled and now my WASD keys don't work.
"2.0.0 is available right now! migration to commonlib-NG ..so one dll file can support SE/VR/AE"
I'm trying to debug game freezing and need a list of last loaded NPCs.
Prev. versions had this option:
#logging to "My Documents\My Games\Skyrim Special Edition or Skyrim VR\SKSE\MuJointFix.log" file
Logging = 0
Or is it in a different location now?
https://ibb.co/jVqMxNf
https://ibb.co/KhXcbMD