This is by far the best race balancing mod I've seen on nexus. if the balance is rapidly sinking in other mods, then the situation is noticeably better here. The main idea of this mod has the greatest potential. In my opinion, only Orcs (too powerful in melee combat), Bosmer and Khajiit really are out of balance (too powerful at stealth archer build that should not exist). In general, simple damage increases for a specific weapon are a bad example of game design.
Instead of these solutions, I would suggest giving the orcs a passive that increases their health regeneration and melee attack damage depending on their missing health, the bosmers an increase in bow attack speed upon successful hit and khajiit just 10% bonus speed. This is just an example.
I also did not understand at all why the "strong and hardy people of Skyrim", i.e. the Nords, have a bonus to light (!!!) armor, and not to heavy. This is simply absurd. They should have only heavy armor bonus. Speech skill bonus to them also doesn't make any sense. The Khajiit are some of Tamriel's most agile and successful merchants, so it would be fair to replace that alchemy bonus with the speech bonus. There are still a bunch of little things that you could fix. If you want, I could help you with that a little bit. But only if there is a desire, of course.
But overall, the mod is still better than all the others. Thanks to the author for his beautiful work!
I'm glad you like it! I made this because I didn't really like any of the existing race overhauls myself either ;) I appreciate the in-depth feedback, I'll drop my thoughts on your points below.
As for balance, I personally don't think that the bonuses to melee or archery damage are overpowered. My approach to balancing the stat bonuses was to have them be equivalent to an early-to-mid-game enchanted item. For example, the Altmer's Magicka bonus is equivalent to an Adept Hood. Whereas the Bosmer's archery bonus is equivalent to a piece of armor/jewelry of Major Archery. These are items that you can expect to find once you're level 10.
A nuance to keep in mind with these bonuses is that they are applied the same way as enchantments, which means that they stack additively with bonuses from enchanted gear. So for example a bosmer with a 50% archery bonus from equipment, has a total bonus of 75%. Whereas if it were a true multiplier, they would have a total bonus 87.5% (1.25 * 1.5 = 1.875).
Khajiit really only get some early game improvement to sneak with the muffle effect. It's fairly trivial to get up to 100% muffle on any character (Muffled Movement perk and boots of muffling give 50% muffle, Silence perk gives 100% muffle). Khajiit can just get there a bit easier.
I don't dislike your suggestion for Orcs, but it goes against the relatively simple approach I went for with this mod, and it has some overlap with the Argonian's increased health regeneration. As for Bosmer and Khajiit, attack and movement speed increases are rare in Skyrim, and I would not want to restrict a specific bonus of this kind to a race. Maybe for a mod that looks to make races more distinct from one another this would be a good fit.
Changing the racial skill bonuses is something that other commenters have touched on. Ultimately I don't find the skill bonuses to be very impactful, even with the experience bonuses that this mod provides. That being said, I would not be opposed to tweaking them in a future update. I think you make some good points with the examples you've given.
Only gripes is somehow Orcs, who're arguably the strongest race, got much stronger. :( And nerfing the passive magic resist from breton to 15% further nerfing my favorite race for melee, is like a kick to the shin. I get the Greater Power was buffed to make up for it, but it's a 60 second buff I have to wait 24 in-game hours to get back.
The goal was to give each race a combat style that it excels in, without nerfing other combat styles. Bretons' magic resistance is an all-around strong ability that helps in various situations. I kept it to preserve the race's vanilla identity, but I think the nerf is justified. Breton is considered by many to be the strongest race in vanilla.
As for Orcs, they don't have any passive bonuses at all in vanilla, so your assertion that they are arguably the strongest race is purely based on their Greater Power, which as you pointed out, only works for 60 seconds once a day. I agree that it's a strong power, but I think with this mod, every race has a solid power that can help them turn the tides in a tough combat encounter.
I obviously haven't done extensive playthroughs with every race myself just to test these changes, as that would take a lot of time. So if you feel strongly about balancing issues, feel free to provide some suggestions!
The bonuses each race have to skills is vanilla, which is why some look a bit strange; Bretons get Speech because they've lost Mysticism from their Morrowind/Oblivion days. Imperials losing Speech is somewhat berserk; I guess the fall of the Septims has been rough on the whole people? Anyways, it's rather easy to edit these values in xEdit if you wish; I recommend the following: - Swap Bretons' Speech bonus for Enchanting, they are focused on defensive skills - Swap Imperials to have +10 Speech instead of Restoration. Keep their Destruction, their skills lean offensive. - Swap Nords to have +5 Restoration rather than Speech, they are known to respect healing magic.
Looks awesome. A few curiosity questions: Imperials don't have Speech as Minor skill? Orcs have Enchanting as Ms? And as for Redguards, wouldn't fast metabolism make the poisons spread faster? Possibly change the name of that '^.^
But overall, innovative and practical work, very nice :) I'll try this out in next playthrough.
I didn't make any changes to the major/minor skills from vanilla. Orcs having enchanting makes sense, as they're supposed to be excellent craftsmen. Imperials not having speech as a minor skill is indeed odd. Maybe I'll adjust some skills in a future update.
The removal of waste and toxics is also part of the metabolic process ;)
No. Imperious is anoter race overhaul, and as such it makes changes to the same things that this mod does. If you want to combine aspects of both mods, you will have to create a patch.
15 comments
Instead of these solutions, I would suggest giving the orcs a passive that increases their health regeneration and melee attack damage depending on their missing health, the bosmers an increase in bow attack speed upon successful hit and khajiit just 10% bonus speed. This is just an example.
I also did not understand at all why the "strong and hardy people of Skyrim", i.e. the Nords, have a bonus to light (!!!) armor, and not to heavy. This is simply absurd. They should have only heavy armor bonus. Speech skill bonus to them also doesn't make any sense. The Khajiit are some of Tamriel's most agile and successful merchants, so it would be fair to replace that alchemy bonus with the speech bonus. There are still a bunch of little things that you could fix. If you want, I could help you with that a little bit. But only if there is a desire, of course.
But overall, the mod is still better than all the others. Thanks to the author for his beautiful work!
As for balance, I personally don't think that the bonuses to melee or archery damage are overpowered. My approach to balancing the stat bonuses was to have them be equivalent to an early-to-mid-game enchanted item. For example, the Altmer's Magicka bonus is equivalent to an Adept Hood. Whereas the Bosmer's archery bonus is equivalent to a piece of armor/jewelry of Major Archery. These are items that you can expect to find once you're level 10.
A nuance to keep in mind with these bonuses is that they are applied the same way as enchantments, which means that they stack additively with bonuses from enchanted gear. So for example a bosmer with a 50% archery bonus from equipment, has a total bonus of 75%. Whereas if it were a true multiplier, they would have a total bonus 87.5% (1.25 * 1.5 = 1.875).
Khajiit really only get some early game improvement to sneak with the muffle effect. It's fairly trivial to get up to 100% muffle on any character (Muffled Movement perk and boots of muffling give 50% muffle, Silence perk gives 100% muffle). Khajiit can just get there a bit easier.
I don't dislike your suggestion for Orcs, but it goes against the relatively simple approach I went for with this mod, and it has some overlap with the Argonian's increased health regeneration. As for Bosmer and Khajiit, attack and movement speed increases are rare in Skyrim, and I would not want to restrict a specific bonus of this kind to a race. Maybe for a mod that looks to make races more distinct from one another this would be a good fit.
Changing the racial skill bonuses is something that other commenters have touched on. Ultimately I don't find the skill bonuses to be very impactful, even with the experience bonuses that this mod provides. That being said, I would not be opposed to tweaking them in a future update. I think you make some good points with the examples you've given.
And nerfing the passive magic resist from breton to 15% further nerfing my favorite race for melee, is like a kick to the shin. I get the Greater Power was buffed to make up for it, but it's a 60 second buff I have to wait 24 in-game hours to get back.
As for Orcs, they don't have any passive bonuses at all in vanilla, so your assertion that they are arguably the strongest race is purely based on their Greater Power, which as you pointed out, only works for 60 seconds once a day. I agree that it's a strong power, but I think with this mod, every race has a solid power that can help them turn the tides in a tough combat encounter.
I obviously haven't done extensive playthroughs with every race myself just to test these changes, as that would take a lot of time. So if you feel strongly about balancing issues, feel free to provide some suggestions!
- Swap Bretons' Speech bonus for Enchanting, they are focused on defensive skills
- Swap Imperials to have +10 Speech instead of Restoration. Keep their Destruction, their skills lean offensive.
- Swap Nords to have +5 Restoration rather than Speech, they are known to respect healing magic.
But overall, innovative and practical work, very nice :) I'll try this out in next playthrough.
The removal of waste and toxics is also part of the metabolic process ;)
Thanks for the feedback and the kind words!