In order to debug any problems that may occur with the mod, some information is REQUIRED - without it, there's nothing I can do. Comments reporting problems with the mod will be ignored unless this information is supplied.
In order to make this slightly easier to gather, I've updated the package with a global debug toggle that will turn on the log messages on demand.
You will obviously need to make sure your SkyrimCustom.ini file has the following section:
Open the menu for the mod, select options, enable the "Script Debugging" option, and then close the menu. This menu will also tell you if the quest is running too.
Without MCM
Open the console with the ~ key and type:
Set ARTHWVADebugGlobal to 1
The Log Files
Your Payrus logs will begin tracking any and all activity generated by the system. While playing, if you run into a problem (folks running inside for no apparent reason etc) then I will need the following from that play session:
1. A copy of "C:/Users/<USERNAME>/Documents/My Games/Skyrim/Logs/Script/Papyrus.0.log" 2. A copy of "C:/Users/<USERNAME>/Documents/My Games/Skyrim/Logs/Script/Script/AliasDump/AliasDump.0.log"
Archive these files and put them on something like DropBox, or paste the contents to Pastebin.com, then provide a link to where I can get these.
One thing - don't bother if you're one of those people who has altered your Papyrus memory settings. Any logs I see in which this has taken place will be dismissed. Altering those settings is bad for the game and leads to malfunctions in scripting that can cause all sorts of unwanted behavior. If you're not using default vanilla Papyrus memory settings, I don't want to hear from you.
Posts advising people to deactivate or uninstall the mod to fix problems will be summarily deleted. People should know by now this is not a good idea for Skyrim and I will not allow such advice to remain posted.
Does this mod affect enemy NPC-S or only Citizens?
Because recently I met the orc that wanted a "good death" and he fled as soon as I got his health below half. And that doesn't make sense, for an orc that wishes to die in battle, why would he flee? So I was wondering if this mod affects the behaviour of enemy NPC-s
Thanks for the info. It's either a vanilla "feature" or it's one of my combat behavioural mods(I guess AI becoming 'smarter' might also result in AI having stronger self preservation instincts)
This is not compatible with Immersive citizens, it is on the list of incompatible mods on their official website. Run for your lives (version 2.1 or above)
The information on that site is incorrect. This mod is 100% compatible with ICAO, but frankly ICAO is enough of a problem on its own that it should just be avoided for all the issues it causes with NPCs and quests.
Okay, I'm sorry but the compatibility seemed strange to me because of the description of the web and that both make NPCs flee from danger. Are you saying Immersive Citizens is unstable? It's strange, it's a top mod, however I trust you, you have many mods that I love.
It has a lot of issues with resource usage due to the number of aliases it sets. NPCs will often get stuck in weird places, which can cause quests to break. There's even been reports of NPCs showing up in Helgen at the start of a new game who promptly get killed by Alduin, which then breaks anything they were involved with.
Plus if you follow Shurah's load order advice, it will break pretty much any navmesh work done in a city or village so you'd need to move it above anything that edits those. Not adjusting things can result in NPCs trying to walk through buildings it doesn't know about, and possibly getting stuck indoors when they shouldn't be there.
I have to thank you for your advice and I am very sorry if I have offended you, for me you are one of the best Nexus modders and you always answer our questions. I'm going to follow your advice and replace Immersive Citizens with AI Overhaul SSE which does not modify navigation meshes and is compatible with Run For Your Lives.
Orc chiefs (Larak in this case) with Foolhardy confidence are running to the longhouse during dragon attacks. While all his people stay and fight.
It's not a confidence issue as this chief is Foolhardy while his people are Brave. This might be an oversight, just wanted to point it out. Any way I could fix this myself in SSEdit?
I don't know when either of the relevant descriptions were updated, but the Immersive Citizens (IC-AIO) functionality description (on their webpage specifically, see below) seems to supersede this one.
I see that the description here (RFYL) says:
Several people have asked over the last few months if this mod is still needed if they are using ICAO. The answer to that question is YES.
ICAO sets up its aliases at the moment it is installed into your game. If you later install more mods that add NPCs to population areas, like Interesting NPC, Inconsequential NPCs, Cutting Room Floor, or other similar mods, then ICAO will not protect those NPCs. The only way it's at all possible to account for doing so on a consistent basis is if the protection for the NPCs is triggered on demand at the time of the event. That is what Run For Your Lives does.
If someone advises you to uninstall RFYL because you're using ICAO - don't listen to them. The advice is uninformed at best.
But the Immersive Citizens webpage describes the following solution:
Since the version 0.2.5, if you install on your save a mod adding extra NPCs while Immersive Citizens is already loaded in your save, then all you need to do to allow Immersive Citizens to affect these newly added NPCs is to update "Immersive Citizens" via a configuration menu available through a Power called "Citizens control" present in the magic section.
That mod's comments are locked and I haven't tested this feature, so I am simply assuming the "update" function works as described.
It sounds to me like this (RFYL) mod's description is out of date, and that you really can just pick which mod to use based on the functionality desired, even if you think you might add other NPC mods down the road. This mod does some similar things to IC-AIO, but in a different way. IC-AIO is a much bigger mod changing NPC behavior. You probably only need one.
(Since mod comment search is not available, I cannot reasonably check if this specific point has been posted about before. I did check the first couple pages.)
Nothing has changed about the descriptions. It is still uninformed advice that RFYL would be obsolete when used with ICAO. ICAO handles things with static aliases and that's never changed. RFYL uses on demand aliases, which also has not changed. On demand is better for supporting dynamic NPCs and the additions of mods over time in general.
Was reading your comment and notice you said ICAO post section was locked with usually turns me away from mods thinking they are/will be dead mods, so I look for alternate AI mod. There is AI overhaul was updated in Dec 2023 and is compatible with this mod. So instead of wondering/worry which mod to use there is an alternative. thank you for pointing out ICAO having a locked post section
if this mod made citizens run indoors when there was fighting on the streets, vampire attacks, and players dead thralls or inhuman conjurations... i think i would be more inclined to download it.
Vampire attacks are already handled even though Bethesda disabled those years ago.
There is no need to make people run away from a player's thrall because presumably you've got the thing under control and it won't be attacking the town.
Vampire attacks are already handled even though Bethesda disabled those years ago.
i wish this was re enabled. any effort to make the npcs behave more Realistically and immersively is always a plus
presumably you've got the thing under control and it won't be attacking the town.
i think having a zombie following you around would arouse Serious Suspicion . i think citizens should call the guards on you. if Nords have an aversion to magic, they would not turn a blind eye to necromancy. you can say that everyone in skyrim is accustomed to magics, and are used to seeing zombies and atronachs. thats fine. i dont prefer that.
if i recall correctly, in Oblivion, all the magics were legal except Necromancy. but that might be a different game. I have to get my Lore correct.
Well the devs disabled the vampire attacks for a very good reason and I'm all for it. Having quests break because vamps killed the people involved wasn't fun and is a difficult thing to attempt to recover from without reverting to older saves. Realism had to give way to sensible gameplay.
Bethesda hasn't included any indicators that people will be wary of your conjurations no matter what they are. Only the guards ever even comment about it. IMO that's up to them to decide and they've decided not to go that route.
Changing either of these things is beyond the scope of what this mod is designed for, which is to get NPCs off the street if a dragon attacks the city. The only reason vampires are still included is sheer laziness on my part to not remove those functions.
Changing either of these things is beyond the scope of what this mod is designed for,
your mod specifically says Dragon Attacks. that is understood. we are just discussing Skyrim in general right now.
Having quests break because vamps killed the people involved wasn't fun and is a difficult thing to attempt to recover from without reverting to older saves.
since we are on the topic of Skyrim and quests. I want to say that I think the vanilla game is Overly Quest-Driven. and Underly-Immersive and Sandboxish. They hacked out the immersion in favor of a quest driven gameplay. I think thats what mods are for, to revert some gameplay design decisions and to tune it more to the individual.
I prefer ALL Npcs to be killed. I prefer that no quest is more important than the character wants. I prefer death is the end for everyone, even the dragonborn. And once your dead - all the quests dont matter any more.
Ideally there should be a Toggle-Mode for everything. Toggle Quest driven or Toggle Sandbox Immersion. Toggle Realism or Toggle Hybrid Realism.
It sounds to me like this mod isn't what you're looking for then since it isn't about letting everyone be killed. Quite the opposite, it's designed to protect them at all costs against a poor AI system.
Vampires only attack towns and cities if you revert the update Bethesda made way back on 1.5.53, or if you're playing VR which never updated that far. (or you're on LE, so why are you even here? :P )
>NPCs react to necromancy<- check this jayserpas mod.
i tried this. the NPCs would say things like, 'that magic looks Unnatural. ' but they would never really do anything, i think their reaction was underwhelming and not very convincing. They are like Hay ! there's a dead body animated... oh well.. get back to work in Skyrim, business as usual..
Awesome thanks. Mostly just also wanted to use the other mod so NPCs felt more alive while also making sure the NPCs dont get themselves killed. But wanted to make sure neither mod would conflict with each other.
Yes it's enabled. The status in the MCM is there to use for troubleshooting purposes if for some odd reason the quest doesn't stop after each encounter on its own.
Give Feedback
616 comments
In order to make this slightly easier to gather, I've updated the package with a global debug toggle that will turn on the log messages on demand.
You will obviously need to make sure your SkyrimCustom.ini file has the following section:
[Papyrus]
bEnableLogging=1
bEnableTrace=1
bLoadDebugInformation=1
bWarnOnFillAliasFailure=1
bShowEventHandlingOutput=1
Enable the mod's debug log:
In MCM
Open the menu for the mod, select options, enable the "Script Debugging" option, and then close the menu. This menu will also tell you if the quest is running too.
Without MCM
Open the console with the ~ key and type:
Set ARTHWVADebugGlobal to 1
The Log Files
Your Payrus logs will begin tracking any and all activity generated by the system. While playing, if you run into a problem (folks running inside for no apparent reason etc) then I will need the following from that play session:
1. A copy of "C:/Users/<USERNAME>/Documents/My Games/Skyrim/Logs/Script/Papyrus.0.log"
2. A copy of "C:/Users/<USERNAME>/Documents/My Games/Skyrim/Logs/Script/Script/AliasDump/AliasDump.0.log"
Archive these files and put them on something like DropBox, or paste the contents to Pastebin.com, then provide a link to where I can get these.
One thing - don't bother if you're one of those people who has altered your Papyrus memory settings. Any logs I see in which this has taken place will be dismissed. Altering those settings is bad for the game and leads to malfunctions in scripting that can cause all sorts of unwanted behavior. If you're not using default vanilla Papyrus memory settings, I don't want to hear from you.
Posts advising people to deactivate or uninstall the mod to fix problems will be summarily deleted. People should know by now this is not a good idea for Skyrim and I will not allow such advice to remain posted.
Because recently I met the orc that wanted a "good death" and he fled as soon as I got his health below half. And that doesn't make sense, for an orc that wishes to die in battle, why would he flee? So I was wondering if this mod affects the behaviour of enemy NPC-s
If you're asking if I'll ESLify it, the answer is no, because doing so would break everyone's saves if they update.
Run for your lives (version 2.1 or above)
Are you saying Immersive Citizens is unstable? It's strange, it's a top mod, however I trust you, you have many mods that I love.
Plus if you follow Shurah's load order advice, it will break pretty much any navmesh work done in a city or village so you'd need to move it above anything that edits those. Not adjusting things can result in NPCs trying to walk through buildings it doesn't know about, and possibly getting stuck indoors when they shouldn't be there.
I'm going to follow your advice and replace Immersive Citizens with AI Overhaul SSE which does not modify navigation meshes and is compatible with Run For Your Lives.
While all his people stay and fight.
It's not a confidence issue as this chief is Foolhardy while his people are Brave.
This might be an oversight, just wanted to point it out. Any way I could fix this myself in SSEdit?
I see that the description here (RFYL) says:
But the Immersive Citizens webpage describes the following solution:
That mod's comments are locked and I haven't tested this feature, so I am simply assuming the "update" function works as described.
It sounds to me like this (RFYL) mod's description is out of date, and that you really can just pick which mod to use based on the functionality desired, even if you think you might add other NPC mods down the road. This mod does some similar things to IC-AIO, but in a different way. IC-AIO is a much bigger mod changing NPC behavior. You probably only need one.
(Since mod comment search is not available, I cannot reasonably check if this specific point has been posted about before. I did check the first couple pages.)
i think i would be more inclined to download it.
There is no need to make people run away from a player's thrall because presumably you've got the thing under control and it won't be attacking the town.
any effort to make the npcs behave more Realistically and immersively is always a plus
you can say that everyone in skyrim is accustomed to magics, and are used to seeing zombies and atronachs. thats fine. i dont prefer that.
if i recall correctly, in Oblivion, all the magics were legal except Necromancy. but that might be a different game. I have to get my Lore correct.
Bethesda hasn't included any indicators that people will be wary of your conjurations no matter what they are. Only the guards ever even comment about it. IMO that's up to them to decide and they've decided not to go that route.
Changing either of these things is beyond the scope of what this mod is designed for, which is to get NPCs off the street if a dragon attacks the city. The only reason vampires are still included is sheer laziness on my part to not remove those functions.
I prefer ALL Npcs to be killed. I prefer that no quest is more important than the character wants. I prefer death is the end for everyone, even the dragonborn.
And once your dead - all the quests dont matter any more.
Ideally there should be a Toggle-Mode for everything. Toggle Quest driven or Toggle Sandbox Immersion. Toggle Realism or Toggle Hybrid Realism.
If you want >NPCs react to necromancy<- check this jayserpas mod. @namechooser
but they would never really do anything, i think their reaction was underwhelming and not very convincing.
They are like Hay ! there's a dead body animated... oh well.. get back to work in Skyrim, business as usual..
is this normal?
i have bells of skyrim installed
Bells of Skyrim may have a different set of conditions it works from to determine when NPCs return to normal.
sorry about that but thanks for the reply