This is the Skyrim Special Edition version. For the original Skyrim game, click here
Any feedback is welcome here. If you don't like my work, I can respect that as long as you show respect in return. And if you have any suggestions, feel free to post them too.
There's been a lot of reports in the last couple months about Form 43 not being updated to Form 44.
For TTRSO, this will not cause you any problems.
I've answered extensively on the reasons why it's fine and why third party programs tend to report this as an error even if it's not always one. Simply search the comments if you want to know more.
I would ask you kindly to stop reporting about it.
People comes with good intentions, but sadly they usually report about it in the worst fear spreading way possible... It's getting irritating to have to explain again and again why it's not a problem. I'm one of the very, very, very few mod author that still support and answer questions on his mods after 9 years. I'd wager we're less than 10 total in the whole Skyrim community. Please, be mindful of how you report stuff, it's important to motivate mod authors to continue their good work ;)
Anyone think they can make a patch to kill the skill-related debuffs from this mod? Love it (and its part of mayhem so its mandatory), but god I HATE those. They don't offer balance or choices, they punish you for trying to diversify at all, railroading you down ONE path.
(Not explicitly asking you, the mod dev; just anyone who feels they can/want to)
make a patch to kill the skill-related debuffs from this mod
Could you elaborate on what you mean please?
Love it (and its part of mayhem so its mandatory), but god I HATE those. They don't offer balance or choices, they punish you for trying to diversify at all, railroading you down ONE path.
Nothing in this mod is mandatory, each skill tree is offered as an optional modular installation. So why say it's mandatory???
Also, the whole goal of the mod is to balance the skill trees between each other and offer you choices so you're not forced to one path... So I have no idea why you'd think otherwise.
I'll give you a few days to explain what you mean, otherwise I'll consider this comment as spreading fear without any proof. As with all comments like these, I delete them because they're not discussing a problem with the mod, they're only trying to make people fear the mod for the commenter's entertainment. I really hope it wasn't your intention and that I'll get more explanation for the blank statement you made.
a patch. to remove the debuffs? related to heavy armor/light armor? Unfortunately it *is* mandatory as part of the merge-mod Mayhem, which relies on the merged version of this mod, Path of Sorcery, Ordinator, and Elemental Destruction Magic; nothing can be opted out of on that front. Thus my asking for a patch. Not spreading fear, this is a personal preference thing; imo punishing the player for wanting variety in their kit is bad. As-is this isn't very balanced at all, and to point out, "balance" in the scope of a singleplayer non-competitive game is a bit silly. Even if I could just turn off the offending modules, I don't mind the skills existing, its literally only the debuffs that are awful to deal with
you've gotta understand the frustration that forcing mixed-focus builds into relative uselessness brings
Let me point out that if you're a mage, and want to wear one of the dragon priest masks, you can't they're light armor you get punished for it...they're primarily meant for mages...so why punish them for it?
You want to be a battle mage? heavy armor? forget it, the debuffs just remove your ability to play your chosen play-style Stuff like this, is the problem
Unfortunately it *is* mandatory as part of the merge-mod Mayhem, which relies on the merged version of this mod, Path of Sorcery, Ordinator, and Elemental Destruction Magic; nothing can be opted out of on that front.
You're saying it's not this mod that makes it mandatory, but the "merged-mod Mayem".
I understand better now, but I would like to point out you should consider this from my perspective too. You came here without giving much context about your situation, complained about the choices from another mod while using words that made it look like my mod is the culprit...
I mean, I think you can understand why I'm a bit less receptive to your plea...
imo punishing the player for wanting variety in their kit is bad. As-is this isn't very balanced at all, and to point out, "balance" in the scope of a singleplayer non-competitive game is a bit silly. Even if I could just turn off the offending modules, I don't mind the skills existing, its literally only the debuffs that are awful to deal with
you've gotta understand the frustration that forcing mixed-focus builds into relative uselessness brings
Let me point out that if you're a mage, and want to wear one of the dragon priest masks, you can't they're light armor you get punished for it...they're primarily meant for mages...so why punish them for it?
You want to be a battle mage? heavy armor? forget it, the debuffs just remove your ability to play your chosen play-style Stuff like this, is the problem
And we'll have to disagree on pretty much anything you said here. This is simply not true at all and most likely you're having difficulty trouble from other mods you installed, nothing to do with TTRSO in particular.
TTRSO is all about giving you more options by boosting the weaker one and nerfing the overpowered ones. If anything, I'd guess it's because you're trying only 1 thing while avoiding all those options that you're in this situation.
The balance between clothes, light armor and heavy armor was fine tuned to offer different playstyles, but not to prevent you from using any styles you want. With the right perks, spells and enchantments, the damage reduction should be:
85% for Heavy Armor
75% for Light Armor
65% for Clothes
If taking 20% more damage is too difficult, change tactics until you can take it.
Once you perk up, the penalties to magicka cost and regeneration are:
20% for Heavy Armor
10% for Light Armor
Again, I kind of fail to see where you're having trouble and why it's "so much" according to you?
If you wear Heavy Armor so you can unleash Flames at point blank while being less than level 10 and having low magicka, you might want to change tactics. At least use a plethora of potions to keep up...
When starting a game, you can't just rush in the middle of everything and think everything will be fine... Once you become stronger, you won't have any problem anymore. The only difficulty I haven't tried is Legendary and I had no difficulty whatsoever in completing the game with this mod.
There are plenty of ways to complete the game, some options are weaker at the beginning than others while being stronger than their counterparts further along in the game.
If you really want to be a battlemage with Heavy Armor as soon as possible, I would try this strategy:
Get the Equilibrium spell
Invest your stat points in Health
Use Conjuration to conjure some weapons (not harsh on magicka consumption)
Use potions (as Equilibrium will consume health instead of magicka, both health and magicka potions are a good fit)
Hold a staff in 1 hand to boost your spells and magicka regeneration (requires Enchanter Focus perk)
Enchant your gear with spell cost reduction
There are other ways like using other schools of magic while Destruction is too costly. Illusion is particularly powerful at the start for example.
You can search for my answers to metapsyborg's comment (25 June 2024, 11:16AM). I list other strategies and they're playing on Legendary difficulty.
If all else fails, you could:
lower the difficulty setting
stock up on potions
use trainers to train your skills
cheat yourself some gold
If the only thing you want to do is use the most magicka consuming spells from Destruction while having no perk, no enchantment, no potions, no health/magicka and at the highest difficulty level... then yes, this mod is definitely not for you... And it's fine too.
in fairness I did specifically state I wasn't asking *you* to do a patch for it. And no, any negative reinforcement of playstyle is bad. Reward the player, don't punish. Even -1% anything is too much. Positive is always better. Rather than punish a battlemage, built around heavy armor, reward a mage that foregoes physical armor; effect is similar, but player reception is much much better. It's a game-design thing, something a bunch of modders seem to fail to grasp.
Negatives = "I'm not going to bother with this" Positives = "I might try that out actually" to put it simply
Also again, if you could provide pointers on manually removing the debuffs, that'd be appreciated; I got as far as finding all the magnitudes and multipliers and...partially got them set to 0, though some seem resistant to modification (and I did make sure to do it to the copies in Mayhem's ESP too). Primarily the Horseman and Finesse modifiers seem sticky, even with the perks that negate them now, despite being 0'd out. for the time being I've compensated with extremely overpowered enchantments to force regenerations to work "normal"
This isn't a difficulty dependant thing, its a principle matter, something that should've been entirely optional separate from the rest of their modules* (*Though, again, mayhem forces the hand here in requiring the merged version of TTRSO)
Also again, if you could provide pointers on manually removing the debuffs, that'd be appreciated; I got as far as finding all the magnitudes and multipliers and...partially got them set to 0, though some seem resistant to modification (and I did make sure to do it to the copies in Mayhem's ESP too). Primarily the Horseman and Finesse modifiers seem sticky, even with the perks that negate them now, despite being 0'd out.
In fairness, you're asking me to give you the exact records I modified over 10 years ago 😅
Given you said you already used a tool and reset them to 0, I'm going to assume you used an appropriate tool to do so and that you targeted the specific records within the Light Armor and Heavy Armor esp files.
My guess is that your modifications were applied to new instances of the effect, but not on the instances already active on you.
What I would try is to "stop" and "restart" those modules (Light & Heavy armor) using the console to "unsticky" the active effects.
Now bear with me because your situation is not as simple as having only my mod. You also have a merged patch of which I know nothing about...
But usually, I would expect to go at it this way:
Open the console and type SetStage TTR_Reset_HeavyArmor 50 SetStage TTR_Reset_LightArmor 50
Hopefully, this will reset the effect on your and apply a new one, which would use your new numbers
If it doesn't work, you might have to uninstall these modules:
Open the console and type SetStage TTR_Reset_HeavyArmor 100 SetStage TTR_Reset_LightArmor 100
Save your game in a new slot, not a quick save either => HARD SAVE IN NEW SLOT!!!
Close the game
Uncheck both Light Armor and Heavy Armor modules
You might have to uncheck the Mayem mod and the merged patch too (I don't know)
Load your game again, select the latest hard save, wait like 10 seconds and save it in a new slot => HARD SAVE IN NEW SLOT!!!
Close the game again
Check all the mods you disabled at step 4 and 5
Load your game again, select the latest hard save
On loading, the Light and Heavy armor modules should start their initialization quest and you should see messages about it
Wait until all the messages are done and hopefully the effects will have your new values
I really do hope this solve the problem for you.
I spent over 45 minutes writing the procedure above for you, so I hope you'll give a bit of thoughts to what I wrote below...
in fairness I did specifically state I wasn't asking *you* to do a patch for it.
True, but I don't think you understand how it was perceived 😅
It's like posting a big ad on my door asking for someone to fix my lawn, not necessarily me... When I said your words were not well chosen, that's what I hinted at 😉
If you had been rude, which you were not, I would have insta-banned you. Being polite is the only rule I enforce, and I take it very seriously. People can disagree all they want with my choices and it's perfectly fine with me. All I ask is to be polite...
And no, any negative reinforcement of playstyle is bad. Reward the player, don't punish. Even -1% anything is too much. Positive is always better. Rather than punish a battlemage, built around heavy armor, reward a mage that foregoes physical armor; effect is similar, but player reception is much much better. It's a game-design thing, something a bunch of modders seem to fail to grasp.
I understand very well what you mean.
The problem here is a question of perspective... You believe I nerfed the Heavy Armor to punish the player. I believe I reward a mage for trying something else than the only logical choice in vanilla Skyrim. Without a small nerf, other armor types are meaningless 🤷♂️
I will also point out that I crunched a lot more numbers for this mod than pretty much any gamer ever did in Skyrim. I spent over 150 hours preparing, calculating and balancing the numbers on paper before coding them. There so much more to take into account than just focusing on Heavy Armor...
The truth about Skyrim is that the game is very hard to balance. Bethesda did things in such a way that if you make it very easy at the start, you will be a god by the time you hit 1/3 of the game. Everything will become meaningless as you're just going through the motions. If you make it too hard for the end game (the last 1/3 off the game), the start of the game will be impossible to play...
What I did to "balance" stuff in TTRSO is:
Plug the exploits for the end game so you don't lose interest 2/3 of the game through
Boost the lack luster skills so they're usable in end game, which opens a ton more options for the player
Nerfed a bit the overpowered skills because they were simply game breaking, which allow players to not feel bad for using other options than the only logical choices (but it does make it a bit harder at the beginning to use those skills; it's still manageable and I went through multiple playthrough to validate it)
You argue that any nerf is bad. I disagree with you, they're the reason TTRSO achieve so many options for the player at any point in the game (start, middle, end). It's much easier to blame the "balance" of the mod than to accept your tactic might not be appropriate for your character level and active perks. Every time I had trouble with some part of a game, any game, changing my tactic made it much easier to go through. Focusing too much on the tree make you lose sight of the forest 🤷♂️
bit late but I came back, checked, and did the steps you outlined; It did run the script it seems, I got he notifications for it. Though in the case of Nimble Fingers debuff, its straight up broken. Not a 50% debuff to lockpicking, a 100% debuff seems to be applied, even with the effect edited such that it shouldn't be applying anything? For context I can't pick ANY lock with gloves on, novice even. Even after taking a potion of fortify lockpicking with a magnitude of >8000%. With the perk that cancels the debuff...Take the gloves off and suddenly any lock is a cakewalk, even without the potion Almost certainly something I broke, somehow, but just not sure...how...or what
Tool I used is just SSEEdit.
Mayhem runs off the single-file merged version of TTRSO, this is what I'd meant by nothing being optional. It literally doesn't let you choose to not use anything. It weaves TTRSO, Ordinator, and Elemental Destruction Magic (The old version before the recent redo that doesn't add perks) together into one cohesive perk overhaul...but keeps most of the issues of ordinator's balance *and* TTRSO's "Debuff random things" approach at the same time. It also uses copies of TTRSO and ordinator perks to make changes on its end, overwriting them both (usually just small tweaks from what I saw in SSEEdit)
Thanks for taking the time to go through that, though. But yeah the debuffs 100% come off as "f*#@ that playstyle entirely". Heavy armor mage isn't usually what people tend to go for, and if anything, I figure you'd want to put a stop to Sneaky Archer Supremacy rather than the fairly uncommon use of non-clothes-only mages... Also lockpicking is a hard-requirement in the game for a lot of stuff; its not a character thing to most folk because the game expects you to do it and be good at it so limiting it feels very antagonistic to the user; same with pickpocketing but to a lesser degree as its required for like...2? quests? I think one is even Creation nonsense.
(Also editing this in but part of the debuff issue is an order-of-operations problem; you can't buff your way out of them at all, thus making them feel very rail-roady. Slapping tons of regeneration buffs on to see a tiny, tiny increase because they were post-processed down to half (or less) of the original value is painful)
Thanks for taking the time to come back with some feedback.
You mention Mayhem runs off the single-file version of TTRSO. I never thought of that because I didn't create that particular file, I only share it.
There's a sticky at the top of the comments stating the single-file version wasn't tested extensively. To be fair, I never had someone complain about that file, so I'm inclined to think the problem doesn't lie there.
I see a few possibilities that could cause the error...
It's possible the single-file version used in Mayen is not the one I distribute at all. I'm not even sure the author of Mayem even asked for my permission to distribute my file 😒 In any case, if it's not the exact same file, I cannot guarantee there's no error within the file in Mayem 🤷♂️
It's also possible Mayem modifies some stuff in TTRSO. They made a patch, meaning they had to make choices when some records were in conflict, and you never know if they added something or not to the mod either.
❓ Questions
Have you ever tried a game with just TTRSO alone to see if the same problem applies?
Did you try to give you 100 in Lockpicking with the console? (invest perk points in lockpicking and validate if it solves the problem)
🚨 Possible Solution Given there's a single-file version of TTRSO included in Mayem, it means it should be possible to override the values with the original TTRSO files.
You could try to add the Lockpicking module only and load it last just to see if it fixes the problems while wearing gloves. If it does, it means a lot of stuff might just be borked in the patch or how the single-file was made. Simply load the non-conflicting TTRSO modules last in your load order, and it will fix the damage caused by Mayem. If it doesn't fix it, I guess the problem is deeper than that.
And just to cover my basis because I can't see for myself your game... If I remember well, with just TTRSO alone on a new game, the lockpicking was not very easy at first. You needed to break a couple lockpicks until your experience starts compounding and make it easier to lockpick stuff. Sometimes it's a question of perspective. If a level 1 character were able to unlock locks while using very cumbersome and rigid gloves, it would make no sense whatsoever. I wouldn't want my heart surgeon to use medieval gloves to operate on me, their agility and precision would be atrocious... But I don't think you're in that situation since you seem to have no problem whatsoever to unlock locks if you remove the gloves.
I really do think there might be something wrong with either the file in Mayem or your savegame might be corrupted. You're really the only one that I can remember that ever had trouble with these debuffs. I know it's frustrating and I would be frustrated too, but it might be something totally out of our control at this point. Savegames sometimes simply get corrupted if using the quicksave (f5) option. You don't always see it right away and it takes time for the corruption to bubble up in your game. Heck, in Oblivion I was the only person in the world that couldn't start my own new game, spent months with Bethesda support to get it working... until they gave up and sent me a savegame from someone else and I had no problem whatsoever with that one... Bethesda games are wonky as hell in very mysterious ways 🤷♂️
I like this perk overhaul because it is very mild and does not just make your character overpowered the way a lot of perk overhauls do.
Playing on legendary though I had to disable the Smithing, Open Locks, Heavy Armor and Light Armor modules. The regen debuff was just too brutal.
But now that my enchanting is 100 I see I now can put 3 enchantments on each piece of gear. This feels like it's going to make me unkillable and OP. Is it somehow balanced out? I might just disable the enchanting module.
Magic, Combat and Stealth skill trees have been balanced to offer meaningful choices with perks, spells and some mechanics. Overall, the game is gonna be a bit harder since I've fixed a lot of exploits, but it won't be overwhelming nor will prevent you from becoming a legend.
TTRSO is about balancing the skills between each other. To that end, some skills were buffed, some were nerfed, and some were tweaked a little.
It is perfectly normal that you might have a bit of trouble playing on Legendary difficulty at the beginning. The problem with the balancing in general is that if it becomes too easy towards the end-game, it's going to be too easy at the start too. By making it harder at the end-game, it's making it harder at the start too. That's what you're experiencing now. The greater the challenge at the beginning, the more you appreciate when things become easier over time. I assure you, you should be able to get by just fine after you level up and perk up enough.
If disabling modules is making you happy for your playthrough on Legendary difficulty, go for it 👍 But I would advise you not to do that and adjust your approach instead. It is doable, the fact you're playing on Legendary instead of a lower difficulty level shows you wanted a challenge so the mod is fulfilling its function regarding that 😉
As for Enchanting, it depends how you see it. As mentioned earlier, skills are balanced between each other and not how difficult the game should be.
On one hand, Enchanting was nerfed from the Vanillavalues and you won't be able to put the same enchantment on every piece either. You can't get ridiculous boosts the way the Vanilla game allowed.
On the other hand, TTRSO is not meant to rebalance the whole game difficulty. If the Vanilla values were allowing you to be a killing machine on Legendary, you will most likely be a killing machine nonetheless... just much less overpowered than you'd be with Vanilla values.
I took great care in making TTRSO balanced in a way where you need to use all the options at your disposal the higher difficulty you play. I closed the loophole between Alchemy, Enchanting and Smithing to prevent players from being too overpowered to the point the game becomes boring. From your comments, I gather you're trying to play Legendary difficulty using only 1 of them instead of all of them at the same time. I suggest you change your approach instead of disabling modules. If Legendary is too hard, start with the previous difficulty level and bump it up later when you're comfortable enough.
In any case, you're master of your own fun. Play the game however you see fit to maximize your fun, that's all there is to it really 😁
I figured the root of the problem may be in using modules piecemeal. I do use all the crafts, it's always been my top priority to level those because they are so powerful. I initially chose to disable the armor modules because I was playing destruction mage and it was impossible to kill things with destruction magic and the regen debuff made it worse. Smithing and lockpicking I just didn't want those changes. But I see you have a holistic approach and I'm breaking the balance. Three enchantments per piece will be more balanced if I re-enable those modules so smithing tempering will be nerfed and I'll need to use the extra enchants to offset the weaker armor and debuffed regen.
I figured the root of the problem may be in using modules piecemeal.
I wouldn't say it's a problem to use modules piecemeal. The very reason I made the mod piecemeal is so you can choose which ones you want. Obviously, things are gonna be more "balanced" if you use all the modules together, but it's not a requirement.
With that said, Mages are a lot harder when starting a game because they're Magika constrained. It's not too bad on normal difficulty, but it will be much more punitive on Legendary difficulty because you need to cast a lot more spells to finish enemies off.
My recommendation would be to start with enchantments that reduce Magika cost. Craft a lot of Magika potions and supplement your attacks with another school of magic. The problem with Destruction spells is that you require direct line of sight and this isn't a great strategy at the start of a Legendary playthrough...
To supplement Destruction spells, I would use:
Items
🚨Use Staves !!! We tend to forget about them because they used to be complete sh*t, but this mod upgrade them and make them an integral part of being a mage
Use wards from Restoration school (not an item, but it acts as a shield
Perks
Mage Armor at all time - Alteration
Stability - Alteration
Tip the Scale can be very useful by concentrating only on health - Alteration
Soul Squeezer to recharge staves - Enchanting
Soul Siphon (1 & 2) can be really useful to recharge staves - Enchanting
Enchanter Focus will slowly recharge your staves - Enchanting
Weave Focus (Holding a staff grants you a 25% magicka regeneration bonus and an extra 50 magicka) - Enchanting
Atronach Focus (Holding a staff allows you to absorb 15% of the magicka of any spells that hit you) - Enchanting
Quiet Casting will allow you to sneak attack with spells more easily - Illusion
Ward Deflection will negate arrow damage - Restoration
Ward Absorb will recharge your magicka when hit with spells - Restoration
Recovery will regenerate magicka faster - Restoration
Avoid Death auto heals you if your health is too low (once a day) - Restoration
Spells
Runes
Summons from Conjuration
Calm, Fear and Fury type spells will help thin the herd (they're very underrated, TTRSO improves them a lot and they particularly shine on higher difficulties)
Using spells from other schools of magic is totally optional. It could help relieve the pressure on you directly, but it's not necessary. If you apply a hit & run strategy, you can definitely get by with only Destruction spells. I think the most important thing to understand is that at first mages are very weak so it's better to rely on equipment like staves for most of your attacks. Later, it's still better to use staves even if it's just holding them while casting from the other hand.
Sometimes we are too focused on what we want to accomplish, our end goal, and miss the other opportunities along the road. It's totally fine if you want to concentrate only in Destruction, but a Legendary playthrough requires you to use all the tools at your disposition. You might be imposing yourself some limits just for the sake of it. In any case, as long as you enjoy the game, that's all that matters.
Does it affects shouts in any way?. I have Ultimate Shouts installed, it adds some awesome upgrades to vanilla shouts. Since I installed this mod, the effects that mod gives are not longer available. Even I can't use Lighting Cloack (or any cloack) with both hands to upgrade it's effect and duration. Maybe it's just me?.
Does it affects shouts in any way?. I have Ultimate Shouts installed, it adds some awesome upgrades to vanilla shouts. Since I installed this mod, the effects that mod gives are not longer available.
Yes, the Speech module affects shouts.
You can check the screenshots for the full details, but basically shouts have perks to give longer duration, greater magnitude and lower cooldown:
Cooldowns on shouts have been reworked entirely so you can actually use them and be efficient
Duration and magnitude of shouts have been reworked entirely so having shout perks will yield more benefits than vanilla Skyrim while being weaker if you don't invest at all in those perks
Shouts aren't affected by any Magic perk anymore
Shouts give experience proportional to their cooldown, meaning a small cooldown gives less experience and a big cooldown gives more
It's possible the Speech module has some incompatibilities with other mods that modifies shouts. You could load Ultimate Shouts after TTRSO Speech module, so you have the desired shout effects while still benefiting from the other Speech perks in TTRSO (although you will lose the shout effects from TTRSO). If you don't want any perks from the Speech module, simply uninstall it (follow instructions listed on description page to avoid problems)
I can't use Lighting Cloack (or any cloack) with both hands to upgrade it's effect and duration.
Yes, it's normal and wanted. TTRSO is about balancing the skills between each other. To that end, some skills were buffed, some were nerfed, and some were tweaked a little.
In the case of cloaks:
Cloak spells don't dispel summons anymore
Cloak type spells are automatically turned off while sneaking to avoid detection
Cloak type spells now show their real damage in their description, have slightly reduced damage and dual casting doesn't affect them anymore
As mentioned in the introduction of the mod:
Magic, Combat and Stealth skill trees have been balanced to offer meaningful choices with perks, spells and some mechanics. Overall, the game is gonna be a bit harder since I've fixed a lot of exploits, but it won't be overwhelming nor will prevent you from becoming a legend.
While the cloak change might look disappointing at first, I encourage you to embrace the changes. It won't rob you from feeling extremely powerful, but it will stop you from feeling bored because everything is too easy.
Will Combat mods, interfere with say the unarmed combat quest for some NPCs. Right now I have Blade & Blunt in my list. And whenever I challenge the NPC to a fist fight, real damage gets applied. And then all hell breaks loose. I get a bounty, and my followers start attacking. I've tried to do some looking myself since I know a moderate amount of modding experience, but this kinda has be scratching my head. I hope you can shed some light on this issue. Hell I even installed the Modern Brawl Bug again and put it at the end, without success. I don't know if it has to do with how damage works with the new brawler gloves that CC provides.
Edit: The character is a blacksmith, and is gaining additional damage against specific armor types through your smithing perk tree.
From what I read, you're asking if my mod will have the same problem as the Blade & Blunt mod has with fist fights. But what throws me off a bit is that the edit references "your smithing perk tree". 🤔
Normally, you shouldn't have trouble with fist fights with TTRSO (this mod). I never encountered a problem with these fist fight quests in any of my walkthroughs. I even bundle the Moder Brawl Bug mod directly in the installation of this mod so people don't forget about it. So no, you should NOT encounter the same problems as you did with Blade & Blunt.
But in the off chance you would, for whatever supernatural reason, you could always use the console to reset any perk tree you want. You won't lose your perk points as they will be fully "reimbursed" to you while resetting the perk tree, like you never spent them! You could use that to do the quest you want and then spend your perk points again to get back what you had. It would be a workaround, but at least you would have a way to continue without missing a good chunk of content to play. Better have options than no options at all 😁
Well I have both installed, sorry, I have trouble explaining things. I thought maybe about applying an exception rule in the bonus damage that the smithing tree can apply, and make it, so that it doesn't affect unarmed combat. But I will try it without Blade & Blunt and see what happens. (if that is the issue. )
So I did a new game, no perks in smithing and no Blade and Blunt. But with brawler gloves from the CC. And I was still getting aggro doing the fist fight encounter. I don't usually have this problems with some of my other mod lists, just seems to happen with this one. That's why I wanted to look into the effects. See if CC is compatible with TTRSO. And I know you make edits to combat as well.
Sorry CC is short for the Creation Club mods that come with Anniversary Edition. As for the combat, I suppose I just mean the way TTRSO changes the Perks; And at the same time my ignorance about TTRSO. But I'm thinking that the issue isn't TTRSO. So once again I apologize.
Um.. but specifically, there's nothing I can really see in there.
All I know is that even with the Modern Brawl Bug Fix from your mod, and my own. Doing Unarmed combat during the fist fight scenarios. Like with the female nord in white run you can get as a follower (Uthgerd the Unbroken). Leads them to becoming agroo'd as if it were a real fight. (and me getting a bounty, and being killed xD)
[ Short answer ] No and this is NOT what's happening to you
[ Long answer ] Every armor type is balanced along the same characteristics, their nature determines their pros & cons.
Heavy armor offers more physical protection, but you will incur a more severe penalty to Stamina and Magicka regeneration. If you're NOT having enough Stamina regeneration, you might not see your Stamina regenerate at all. Same thing with Magicka. You can solve this by wearing enchanted items that boost your Stamina and/or your Magicka regeneration.
Clothing offers no penalty to Stamina and Magicka regeneration, but provides much less physical protection. You can solve the physical protection problem by using Wards (they've been balanced accordingly) and spells like Ironflesh.
Light Armor is in the middle of Clothing and Heavy Armor. It offers some physical protection, but you will incur a some penalty to Stamina and Magicka regeneration. You can solve this by wearing enchanted items that boost your Stamina and/or your Magicka regeneration.
TTRSO is meant to be a balanced experience. Every related skills have been balanced to offer relatively the same outcome. Some skills have been nerfed while some have been boosted to achieve a relative equilibrium. Your skill choices do "matter".
I've come across what I'm assuming is a bug. I'm using just the Magic portion with Skyrim Special Edition. With this active, I can no longer enchant head gear, rings or necklaces with the "Fortify Destruction" (or Alteration, Illusion, Restoration, Conjuration) enchantment. I've tested with all my other mods turned off and just TTR_Skill_Overhaul active to verify that it's this mod that's causing the issue. I'm not sure if this was an intentional change or not.
Just to be clear, I'm referring to the "Fortify Destruction" enchantment. Not the "Fortify Destruction & Magicka Regen" enchantment which I'm aware can only be used on chest pieces.
After consulting my notes, it's been 10 years so I consult them a lot when I get some questions like this, I realize now that I shouldn't have used a color coded system to note which enchantment can be applied to which kind of gear ?
If I'm not mistaken, you should be able to enchant:
head gear (ex: helmets)
body gear (ex: armors)
hand gear (ex: gloves)
ring
amulet
Given at the moment you can't enchant head, rings or amulet, I can only think of these possibilities:
The mod didn't install correctly, you can uninstall it and reinstall it to check if this solves the problem.
This happened more often than it should have with the NexusModManagers, which sometimes just skipped files from the archive, I wouldn't put it past Vortex to do the same sometimes...
It's also possible that the Creation Engine corrupted your savegame file, you can try a previous savegame or a new game completely.
Usually, those small corruptions are imperceptible, but sometimes you randomly can't do something that you should be able to do... The Creation Engine is very finicky and have some wild quirks sometimes.
For example...
In Skyrim, at some point I stopped being able to train Restoration. Even on a new game without any mod installed... Even re-installing Windows didn't solve the problem...
In Oblivion, which is the same engine, I stopped being able to create new games. I had to use a savegame downloaded from the community otherwise the game would simply not launch. I contacted Bethesda at the time and after 4 months of back and forth, and many Windows re-install, they just couldn't figure out why my savegames were not booting in-game, they couldn't boot them on their side either...
What I do know is that I tested this mod from top to bottom. Every single thing has been tested and I spent over 250 hours just on validating all of it. The possibility of this being a bug per se is not likely. I play a mage in all my games so I would have definitely seen it if something was wrong with Destruction given it's the main school of magic for direct damage... Try the 2 fixes I suggested and let me know how it went. We'll check it out from there. Have a nice day!
For #1 I started off by simply disabling the mod then uninstalling and reinstalling it. That didn't change anything. So I tried completely deleting the mod from Vortex, redownloaded it, added it back into Vortex, installed it and enabled it. This has no effect either.
For #2 I loaded up one of my earliest saves before I had ANY mods installed. It was such an early save, I had to give myself a Ring of Peerless Destruction so I could Disenchant that to get the enchantment to test with. That had no effect. I took that same save and ran it with TTRSO disabled and I was able to enchant head armor correctly. I didn't try the other since the character in that particular save didn't have anything else on hand I could test with, but figured this was likely an "all or nothing" issue.
Not sure what else to try. For the time being I get around it by activating the "Enchanting Freedom" mod, and then deactivating it when I'm not actively creating magic items, but that's an bothersome work-around.
I guess I should point out that I'm only using the "TTR_Skill_Overhaul" main file. I'm not using the optional "TTR_Skill_Overhaul_Merged" file even though I do have all the DLC content. When I install "TTR_Skill_Overhaul" within Vortex, I do select all three DLC on that page, and I only select the 6 Mage related skills.
Idea #1 Would it be possible to check the files are physically there please?
I'm not privy on how Vortex actually put files on the disk, I know they hired the guy from another very popular mod manager to make Vortex. His previous mod manager used a virtual filesystem so maybe Vortex does the same.
In any case, I would make sure you see:
the 6 ESP files (1 per magic school)
the ESM file
the scripts from my mod are installed under Scripts folder (you can check TTRSO archive file for the names of the scripts)
If something is missing, Vortex might have a bug. If everything is there, I guess it's something else ;)
Idea #2 Try to put TTRSO ESP files loaded last in your mod order.
I don't expect much change given you've tried without any mod, but this is just to cover the basics.
Idea #3 Have you visited TTRSO custom merchant in Winterhold?
If he has a `Fortify "school of magic"` item, try disenchanting this item instead and then use that one to enchant.
While a long shot, it's possible I had to create a new enchantment for this and this is the only one that allows enchanting on most gear pieces.
Idea #4 What is your edition of Skyrim?
If you have the anniversary edition, it's possible TTRSO has some conflicts with it. They changed a whole lot of stuff if I recall correctly.
Note I just want to add I'm sorry you're going through this problem. I usually takes extensive notes about the changes I've made, but this one fell through the cracks. I simply don't know what is the actual expected behavior because I used a color coded system 10 years ago and I didn't note what means what... That was really silly of me and I'm a bit banging my head against the wall for that ;)
I'm a bit confused by the changes to the Dragonhide Alteration spell. The mod description says it's supposed to be like the other mage armor spells with an armor rating (the spell description is still the Vanilla one though so it's not very helpful), but it seems weaker than Ebonyflesh.
With all 3/3 Mage Armor Dragonhide gives 376 armor rating while Ebonyflesh gives 400. Weirdly, I can cast Ebonyflesh on top of Dragonhide and get an armor rating of 475 (The active spells menu only says Ebonyflesh is active regardless of which order I cast the spells).
I've also tried it with less than all 3 Mage Armor perks and the armor rating values are weird.
If I had to guess, Dragonhide is supposed to have an Armor rating of 125, but the base armor rating is missing so instead of giving 125 with 0/3 Mage Armor it instead gives some small value that gets rounded up to 1 and each level of Mage Armor adds +125 rating.
the spell description is still the Vanilla onethe spell description is still the Vanilla one
Dragonhide + Ebonyflesh Armor Rating
TTRSO definitely modifies the description of Dragonhide. It should show the same description as the other flesh spells.
Also, in vanilla Skyrim, the spell WAS a completely different magic effect. TTRSO changed it to use the same magic effect as Ebonyflesh and the others with a base of 120 AR. Given it's the exact same magic effect in TTRSO, it's absolutely impossible to stack them.
The fact the description is NOT the one from TTRSO and that you can cast Dragonhide + Ebonyflesh at the same time and they're stacking shows there's something abnormal.
Possible solutions Have you tried to load TTRSO as far down as possible in your mod list order?
Have you tried with an earlier savegame? It's not unheard of that savegames corrupt themselves in very weird ways sometimes...
If it doesn't seem to work with an earlier savegame, try to download an unmoded savegame from this site. I've seen cases in Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim where even starting a completely new game after reinstalling the game didn't work... You can always cheat yourself the spells and perk points to test it out.
If it doesn't work, you should try reinstalling the Alteration module. You can find instructions for that in the description, there's no need to reinstall the whole mod, simply do it for Alteration.
Keep me posted please, I'm curious to see if it solved the problem and what actually solved it.
It was plugin order that mattered. I moved TTRSO to the bottom of the mod order, no change. I moved the TTRSO plugins to the bottom of the plugin order and that fixed (and broke) things.
Cutting Room Floor was the problem; I have both CRF and the CRF survival patch installed, and it was the base mod plugin not the patch plugin. Moving the TTRSO plugin broke another mod I was using, Forceful Tongue - Shout Overhaul. Forceful Tongue needs to have its plugin after TTRSO to make sure the Dragon Aspect shout doesn't revert to vanilla (didn't check other shouts).
The plugin order that appears to resolve things:
Cutting Room Floor.esp
TTRSO esp plugins
ForcefulTongue.esp
This plugin order Dragonhide now has the 125 armor and 10% unarmed description. Casting Dragonhide with 3/3 Mage Armor gives 500 rating. And Forceful Tongue's Dragon Aspect works.
However the Ebonyflesh + Dragonhide state is still possible, and it works the same with Iron, Stone, and Oak.
3/3 Mage Armor ____flesh + Dragonhide: Ebony -> 475 (100 + 125*3) Iron -> 455 (80 + 125*3) Stone -> 435 (60 + 125*3) Oak -> 415 (40 + 125*3)
Further testing I've found this isn't unique to Dragonhide, it seems to happen any time you cast a lower tier Mage Armor spell after a higher tier one (The order for Dragonhide + ____Flesh spell probably didn't matter before because Dragonhide wasn't working properly).
Ebony + Iron -> 380 rating (80 + 100*3) Iron + Oak -> 280 (40 + 80*3) etc.
It seems like lower tier Mage Armor spells aren't overwriting the higher tier Mage Armor perk bonuses properly. Casting a higher tier Mage Armor spell overwrites the armor rating properly.
For the behavior with ForcefulTongue, it's totally normal, TTRSO didn't break anything. When 2 mods change the same in-game record, the last loaded mod wins and apply its change over any other mod. That's why load order is important.
As for the flesh spells combining, I'm a bit perplexed. On one hand, I haven't touch TTRSO in years so I'm fuzzy on the very technical details... I think it might be a Skyrim bug where a lower value effect can't overwrite the upper value effect in some cases. It would explain why if you cast Dragonhide before, the Mage Armor perk doesn't get overridden, but if you cast Dragonhide after, the Mage Armor perk gets overridden with the higher value. At this point, it looks legit to me. The important part is that the player is not penalized so I guess it's acceptable.
I hope this answers all your questions. If not, don't hesitate to post again.
Actually, the only reason I'm using Forceful Tongues, really, is because I like the changes it made to Dragon Aspect. However the FT shouts don't give Speech experience and I'm wondering how TTRSO gives Speech experience and whether I could make my own patch to make FT's shouts give exp.
I've never made a mod or patch before, but I'm looking the shout magic effects in SSEEdit and I can see that TTRSO adds a script that seems to be responsible, along with some keywords for shout magic and duration(when applicable), and I'm guessing if I patched those onto the FT shouts they could work with TTRSO. Am I on the right track here?
I noticed the description recommended NMM, which has been discontinued and is known to break the game. Could you switch the recommendation to MO2, or if you really want to stick with Nexus, Vortex?
To be fair, while it's true NNM has been discontinued for a while now, the last version of the mod has been published way before that
I haven't tested what happens with the other mod managers, so I'm a bit reluctant to recommend anything else I haven't tested myself...
As long as the mod manager you use is fulfilling the scripting specs that NMM had for installing mods (FOMOD), I guess there shouldn't be any problem whatsoever. You're also the first one to bring that up and since people have moved away from NMM long ago and I never heard any complaints, I guess it's another reason to think it should be fine.
I'll try to find some time to update the description.
Note: It might not be as simple... That description is live on a couple sources:
All my mods descriptions on NexusMods
Install procedures inside the FOMOD (those won't be updated)
My current website mod pages
My new website mod pages
etc.
So yeah, simple demand, not always so easily applicable
257 comments
Any feedback is welcome here. If you don't like my work, I can respect that as long as you show respect in return. And if you have any suggestions, feel free to post them too.
The file wasn't tested extensively, but there shouldn't be any trouble.
You can all thank Will58448 for this version, I'm merely distributing the file.
For TTRSO, this will not cause you any problems.
I've answered extensively on the reasons why it's fine and why third party programs tend to report this as an error even if it's not always one. Simply search the comments if you want to know more.
I would ask you kindly to stop reporting about it.
People comes with good intentions, but sadly they usually report about it in the worst fear spreading way possible... It's getting irritating to have to explain again and again why it's not a problem. I'm one of the very, very, very few mod author that still support and answer questions on his mods after 9 years. I'd wager we're less than 10 total in the whole Skyrim community. Please, be mindful of how you report stuff, it's important to motivate mod authors to continue their good work ;)
(Not explicitly asking you, the mod dev; just anyone who feels they can/want to)
Could you elaborate on what you mean please?
Nothing in this mod is mandatory, each skill tree is offered as an optional modular installation. So why say it's mandatory???
Also, the whole goal of the mod is to balance the skill trees between each other and offer you choices so you're not forced to one path... So I have no idea why you'd think otherwise.
I'll give you a few days to explain what you mean, otherwise I'll consider this comment as spreading fear without any proof. As with all comments like these, I delete them because they're not discussing a problem with the mod, they're only trying to make people fear the mod for the commenter's entertainment. I really hope it wasn't your intention and that I'll get more explanation for the blank statement you made.
Unfortunately it *is* mandatory as part of the merge-mod Mayhem, which relies on the merged version of this mod, Path of Sorcery, Ordinator, and Elemental Destruction Magic; nothing can be opted out of on that front. Thus my asking for a patch. Not spreading fear, this is a personal preference thing; imo punishing the player for wanting variety in their kit is bad. As-is this isn't very balanced at all, and to point out, "balance" in the scope of a singleplayer non-competitive game is a bit silly.
Even if I could just turn off the offending modules, I don't mind the skills existing, its literally only the debuffs that are awful to deal with
you've gotta understand the frustration that forcing mixed-focus builds into relative uselessness brings
Let me point out that if you're a mage, and want to wear one of the dragon priest masks, you can't
they're light armor
you get punished for it...they're primarily meant for mages...so why punish them for it?
You want to be a battle mage? heavy armor? forget it, the debuffs just remove your ability to play your chosen play-style
Stuff like this, is the problem
You're saying it's not this mod that makes it mandatory, but the "merged-mod Mayem".
I understand better now, but I would like to point out you should consider this from my perspective too. You came here without giving much context about your situation, complained about the choices from another mod while using words that made it look like my mod is the culprit...
I mean, I think you can understand why I'm a bit less receptive to your plea...
And we'll have to disagree on pretty much anything you said here. This is simply not true at all and most likely you're having difficulty trouble from other mods you installed, nothing to do with TTRSO in particular.
TTRSO is all about giving you more options by boosting the weaker one and nerfing the overpowered ones. If anything, I'd guess it's because you're trying only 1 thing while avoiding all those options that you're in this situation.
The balance between clothes, light armor and heavy armor was fine tuned to offer different playstyles, but not to prevent you from using any styles you want. With the right perks, spells and enchantments, the damage reduction should be:
If taking 20% more damage is too difficult, change tactics until you can take it.
Once you perk up, the penalties to magicka cost and regeneration are:
Again, I kind of fail to see where you're having trouble and why it's "so much" according to you?
If you wear Heavy Armor so you can unleash Flames at point blank while being less than level 10 and having low magicka, you might want to change tactics. At least use a plethora of potions to keep up...
When starting a game, you can't just rush in the middle of everything and think everything will be fine... Once you become stronger, you won't have any problem anymore. The only difficulty I haven't tried is Legendary and I had no difficulty whatsoever in completing the game with this mod.
There are plenty of ways to complete the game, some options are weaker at the beginning than others while being stronger than their counterparts further along in the game.
If you really want to be a battlemage with Heavy Armor as soon as possible, I would try this strategy:
There are other ways like using other schools of magic while Destruction is too costly. Illusion is particularly powerful at the start for example.
You can search for my answers to metapsyborg's comment (25 June 2024, 11:16AM). I list other strategies and they're playing on Legendary difficulty.
If all else fails, you could:
If the only thing you want to do is use the most magicka consuming spells from Destruction while having no perk, no enchantment, no potions, no health/magicka and at the highest difficulty level... then yes, this mod is definitely not for you... And it's fine too.
And no, any negative reinforcement of playstyle is bad. Reward the player, don't punish. Even -1% anything is too much. Positive is always better. Rather than punish a battlemage, built around heavy armor, reward a mage that foregoes physical armor; effect is similar, but player reception is much much better. It's a game-design thing, something a bunch of modders seem to fail to grasp.
Negatives = "I'm not going to bother with this"
Positives = "I might try that out actually"
to put it simply
Also again, if you could provide pointers on manually removing the debuffs, that'd be appreciated; I got as far as finding all the magnitudes and multipliers and...partially got them set to 0, though some seem resistant to modification (and I did make sure to do it to the copies in Mayhem's ESP too). Primarily the Horseman and Finesse modifiers seem sticky, even with the perks that negate them now, despite being 0'd out. for the time being I've compensated with extremely overpowered enchantments to force regenerations to work "normal"
This isn't a difficulty dependant thing, its a principle matter, something that should've been entirely optional separate from the rest of their modules*
(*Though, again, mayhem forces the hand here in requiring the merged version of TTRSO)
In fairness, you're asking me to give you the exact records I modified over 10 years ago 😅
Given you said you already used a tool and reset them to 0, I'm going to assume you used an appropriate tool to do so and that you targeted the specific records within the Light Armor and Heavy Armor esp files.
My guess is that your modifications were applied to new instances of the effect, but not on the instances already active on you.
What I would try is to "stop" and "restart" those modules (Light & Heavy armor) using the console to "unsticky" the active effects.
Now bear with me because your situation is not as simple as having only my mod. You also have a merged patch of which I know nothing about...
But usually, I would expect to go at it this way:
SetStage TTR_Reset_HeavyArmor 50SetStage TTR_Reset_LightArmor 50
If it doesn't work, you might have to uninstall these modules:
SetStage TTR_Reset_HeavyArmor 100SetStage TTR_Reset_LightArmor 100
I really do hope this solve the problem for you.
I spent over 45 minutes writing the procedure above for you, so I hope you'll give a bit of thoughts to what I wrote below...
True, but I don't think you understand how it was perceived 😅
It's like posting a big ad on my door asking for someone to fix my lawn, not necessarily me... When I said your words were not well chosen, that's what I hinted at 😉
If you had been rude, which you were not, I would have insta-banned you. Being polite is the only rule I enforce, and I take it very seriously. People can disagree all they want with my choices and it's perfectly fine with me. All I ask is to be polite...
I understand very well what you mean.
The problem here is a question of perspective... You believe I nerfed the Heavy Armor to punish the player. I believe I reward a mage for trying something else than the only logical choice in vanilla Skyrim. Without a small nerf, other armor types are meaningless 🤷♂️
I will also point out that I crunched a lot more numbers for this mod than pretty much any gamer ever did in Skyrim. I spent over 150 hours preparing, calculating and balancing the numbers on paper before coding them. There so much more to take into account than just focusing on Heavy Armor...
The truth about Skyrim is that the game is very hard to balance. Bethesda did things in such a way that if you make it very easy at the start, you will be a god by the time you hit 1/3 of the game. Everything will become meaningless as you're just going through the motions. If you make it too hard for the end game (the last 1/3 off the game), the start of the game will be impossible to play...
What I did to "balance" stuff in TTRSO is:
You argue that any nerf is bad. I disagree with you, they're the reason TTRSO achieve so many options for the player at any point in the game (start, middle, end). It's much easier to blame the "balance" of the mod than to accept your tactic might not be appropriate for your character level and active perks. Every time I had trouble with some part of a game, any game, changing my tactic made it much easier to go through. Focusing too much on the tree make you lose sight of the forest 🤷♂️
Almost certainly something I broke, somehow, but just not sure...how...or what
Tool I used is just SSEEdit.
Mayhem runs off the single-file merged version of TTRSO, this is what I'd meant by nothing being optional. It literally doesn't let you choose to not use anything. It weaves TTRSO, Ordinator, and Elemental Destruction Magic (The old version before the recent redo that doesn't add perks) together into one cohesive perk overhaul...but keeps most of the issues of ordinator's balance *and* TTRSO's "Debuff random things" approach at the same time. It also uses copies of TTRSO and ordinator perks to make changes on its end, overwriting them both (usually just small tweaks from what I saw in SSEEdit)
Thanks for taking the time to go through that, though. But yeah the debuffs 100% come off as "f*#@ that playstyle entirely". Heavy armor mage isn't usually what people tend to go for, and if anything, I figure you'd want to put a stop to Sneaky Archer Supremacy rather than the fairly uncommon use of non-clothes-only mages...
Also lockpicking is a hard-requirement in the game for a lot of stuff; its not a character thing to most folk because the game expects you to do it and be good at it so limiting it feels very antagonistic to the user; same with pickpocketing but to a lesser degree as its required for like...2? quests? I think one is even Creation nonsense.
(Also editing this in but part of the debuff issue is an order-of-operations problem; you can't buff your way out of them at all, thus making them feel very rail-roady. Slapping tons of regeneration buffs on to see a tiny, tiny increase because they were post-processed down to half (or less) of the original value is painful)
You mention Mayhem runs off the single-file version of TTRSO. I never thought of that because I didn't create that particular file, I only share it.
There's a sticky at the top of the comments stating the single-file version wasn't tested extensively. To be fair, I never had someone complain about that file, so I'm inclined to think the problem doesn't lie there.
I see a few possibilities that could cause the error...
It's possible the single-file version used in Mayen is not the one I distribute at all. I'm not even sure the author of Mayem even asked for my permission to distribute my file 😒 In any case, if it's not the exact same file, I cannot guarantee there's no error within the file in Mayem 🤷♂️
It's also possible Mayem modifies some stuff in TTRSO. They made a patch, meaning they had to make choices when some records were in conflict, and you never know if they added something or not to the mod either.
❓ Questions
🚨 Possible Solution
Given there's a single-file version of TTRSO included in Mayem, it means it should be possible to override the values with the original TTRSO files.
You could try to add the Lockpicking module only and load it last just to see if it fixes the problems while wearing gloves. If it does, it means a lot of stuff might just be borked in the patch or how the single-file was made. Simply load the non-conflicting TTRSO modules last in your load order, and it will fix the damage caused by Mayem. If it doesn't fix it, I guess the problem is deeper than that.
And just to cover my basis because I can't see for myself your game... If I remember well, with just TTRSO alone on a new game, the lockpicking was not very easy at first. You needed to break a couple lockpicks until your experience starts compounding and make it easier to lockpick stuff. Sometimes it's a question of perspective. If a level 1 character were able to unlock locks while using very cumbersome and rigid gloves, it would make no sense whatsoever. I wouldn't want my heart surgeon to use medieval gloves to operate on me, their agility and precision would be atrocious... But I don't think you're in that situation since you seem to have no problem whatsoever to unlock locks if you remove the gloves.
I really do think there might be something wrong with either the file in Mayem or your savegame might be corrupted. You're really the only one that I can remember that ever had trouble with these debuffs. I know it's frustrating and I would be frustrated too, but it might be something totally out of our control at this point. Savegames sometimes simply get corrupted if using the quicksave (f5) option. You don't always see it right away and it takes time for the corruption to bubble up in your game. Heck, in Oblivion I was the only person in the world that couldn't start my own new game, spent months with Bethesda support to get it working... until they gave up and sent me a savegame from someone else and I had no problem whatsoever with that one... Bethesda games are wonky as hell in very mysterious ways 🤷♂️
Playing on legendary though I had to disable the Smithing, Open Locks, Heavy Armor and Light Armor modules. The regen debuff was just too brutal.
But now that my enchanting is 100 I see I now can put 3 enchantments on each piece of gear. This feels like it's going to make me unkillable and OP. Is it somehow balanced out? I might just disable the enchanting module.
TTRSO is about balancing the skills between each other. To that end, some skills were buffed, some were nerfed, and some were tweaked a little.
It is perfectly normal that you might have a bit of trouble playing on Legendary difficulty at the beginning. The problem with the balancing in general is that if it becomes too easy towards the end-game, it's going to be too easy at the start too. By making it harder at the end-game, it's making it harder at the start too. That's what you're experiencing now. The greater the challenge at the beginning, the more you appreciate when things become easier over time. I assure you, you should be able to get by just fine after you level up and perk up enough.
If disabling modules is making you happy for your playthrough on Legendary difficulty, go for it 👍 But I would advise you not to do that and adjust your approach instead. It is doable, the fact you're playing on Legendary instead of a lower difficulty level shows you wanted a challenge so the mod is fulfilling its function regarding that 😉
As for Enchanting, it depends how you see it. As mentioned earlier, skills are balanced between each other and not how difficult the game should be.
On one hand, Enchanting was nerfed from the Vanilla values and you won't be able to put the same enchantment on every piece either. You can't get ridiculous boosts the way the Vanilla game allowed.
On the other hand, TTRSO is not meant to rebalance the whole game difficulty. If the Vanilla values were allowing you to be a killing machine on Legendary, you will most likely be a killing machine nonetheless... just much less overpowered than you'd be with Vanilla values.
I took great care in making TTRSO balanced in a way where you need to use all the options at your disposal the higher difficulty you play. I closed the loophole between Alchemy, Enchanting and Smithing to prevent players from being too overpowered to the point the game becomes boring. From your comments, I gather you're trying to play Legendary difficulty using only 1 of them instead of all of them at the same time. I suggest you change your approach instead of disabling modules. If Legendary is too hard, start with the previous difficulty level and bump it up later when you're comfortable enough.
In any case, you're master of your own fun. Play the game however you see fit to maximize your fun, that's all there is to it really 😁
I wouldn't say it's a problem to use modules piecemeal. The very reason I made the mod piecemeal is so you can choose which ones you want. Obviously, things are gonna be more "balanced" if you use all the modules together, but it's not a requirement.
With that said, Mages are a lot harder when starting a game because they're Magika constrained. It's not too bad on normal difficulty, but it will be much more punitive on Legendary difficulty because you need to cast a lot more spells to finish enemies off.
My recommendation would be to start with enchantments that reduce Magika cost. Craft a lot of Magika potions and supplement your attacks with another school of magic. The problem with Destruction spells is that you require direct line of sight and this isn't a great strategy at the start of a Legendary playthrough...
To supplement Destruction spells, I would use:
Items
Perks
Spells
Using spells from other schools of magic is totally optional. It could help relieve the pressure on you directly, but it's not necessary. If you apply a hit & run strategy, you can definitely get by with only Destruction spells. I think the most important thing to understand is that at first mages are very weak so it's better to rely on equipment like staves for most of your attacks. Later, it's still better to use staves even if it's just holding them while casting from the other hand.
Sometimes we are too focused on what we want to accomplish, our end goal, and miss the other opportunities along the road. It's totally fine if you want to concentrate only in Destruction, but a Legendary playthrough requires you to use all the tools at your disposition. You might be imposing yourself some limits just for the sake of it. In any case, as long as you enjoy the game, that's all that matters.
I have Ultimate Shouts installed, it adds some awesome upgrades to vanilla shouts.
Since I installed this mod, the effects that mod gives are not longer available. Even I can't use Lighting Cloack (or any cloack) with both hands to upgrade it's effect and duration. Maybe it's just me?.
All information about these things is available in the screenshots. A more searchable format is available on the HTML version of the description page: https://thethirdrace.com/games/skyrim/my-mods/ttrso.aspx
But, in the spirit of saving you a bit of time...
Yes, the Speech module affects shouts.
You can check the screenshots for the full details, but basically shouts have perks to give longer duration, greater magnitude and lower cooldown:
It's possible the Speech module has some incompatibilities with other mods that modifies shouts. You could load Ultimate Shouts after TTRSO Speech module, so you have the desired shout effects while still benefiting from the other Speech perks in TTRSO (although you will lose the shout effects from TTRSO). If you don't want any perks from the Speech module, simply uninstall it (follow instructions listed on description page to avoid problems)
Yes, it's normal and wanted. TTRSO is about balancing the skills between each other. To that end, some skills were buffed, some were nerfed, and some were tweaked a little.
In the case of cloaks:
As mentioned in the introduction of the mod:
While the cloak change might look disappointing at first, I encourage you to embrace the changes. It won't rob you from feeling extremely powerful, but it will stop you from feeling bored because everything is too easy.
Edit: The character is a blacksmith, and is gaining additional damage against specific armor types through your smithing perk tree.
Normally, you shouldn't have trouble with fist fights with TTRSO (this mod). I never encountered a problem with these fist fight quests in any of my walkthroughs. I even bundle the Moder Brawl Bug mod directly in the installation of this mod so people don't forget about it. So no, you should NOT encounter the same problems as you did with Blade & Blunt.
But in the off chance you would, for whatever supernatural reason, you could always use the console to reset any perk tree you want. You won't lose your perk points as they will be fully "reimbursed" to you while resetting the perk tree, like you never spent them! You could use that to do the quest you want and then spend your perk points again to get back what you had. It would be a workaround, but at least you would have a way to continue without missing a good chunk of content to play. Better have options than no options at all 😁
Not much trouble, just skipping a few things along the way 😅
From you last comment, I guess `CC` another mod?
If so, then there might be something I could check if you provide me the link to the mod.
This doesn't narrow things for me 😅
Also I don't remember TTRSO making direct changes to "combat"... 🤔
Maybe you could elaborate a bit on this one so I better understand the situation?
Um.. but specifically,
there's nothing I can really see in there.
All I know is that even with the Modern Brawl Bug Fix from your mod, and my own. Doing Unarmed combat during the fist fight scenarios. Like with the female nord in white run you can get as a follower (Uthgerd the Unbroken). Leads them to becoming agroo'd as if it were a real fight. (and me getting a bounty, and being killed xD)
No and this is NOT what's happening to you
[ Long answer ]
Every armor type is balanced along the same characteristics, their nature determines their pros & cons.
Heavy armor offers more physical protection, but you will incur a more severe penalty to Stamina and Magicka regeneration. If you're NOT having enough Stamina regeneration, you might not see your Stamina regenerate at all. Same thing with Magicka. You can solve this by wearing enchanted items that boost your Stamina and/or your Magicka regeneration.
Clothing offers no penalty to Stamina and Magicka regeneration, but provides much less physical protection. You can solve the physical protection problem by using Wards (they've been balanced accordingly) and spells like Ironflesh.
Light Armor is in the middle of Clothing and Heavy Armor. It offers some physical protection, but you will incur a some penalty to Stamina and Magicka regeneration. You can solve this by wearing enchanted items that boost your Stamina and/or your Magicka regeneration.
TTRSO is meant to be a balanced experience. Every related skills have been balanced to offer relatively the same outcome. Some skills have been nerfed while some have been boosted to achieve a relative equilibrium. Your skill choices do "matter".
Just to be clear, I'm referring to the "Fortify Destruction" enchantment. Not the "Fortify Destruction & Magicka Regen" enchantment which I'm aware can only be used on chest pieces.
After consulting my notes, it's been 10 years so I consult them a lot when I get some questions like this, I realize now that I shouldn't have used a color coded system to note which enchantment can be applied to which kind of gear ?
If I'm not mistaken, you should be able to enchant:
Given at the moment you can't enchant head, rings or amulet, I can only think of these possibilities:
This happened more often than it should have with the NexusModManagers, which sometimes just skipped files from the archive, I wouldn't put it past Vortex to do the same sometimes...
Usually, those small corruptions are imperceptible, but sometimes you randomly can't do something that you should be able to do... The Creation Engine is very finicky and have some wild quirks sometimes.
For example...
In Skyrim, at some point I stopped being able to train Restoration. Even on a new game without any mod installed... Even re-installing Windows didn't solve the problem...
In Oblivion, which is the same engine, I stopped being able to create new games. I had to use a savegame downloaded from the community otherwise the game would simply not launch. I contacted Bethesda at the time and after 4 months of back and forth, and many Windows re-install, they just couldn't figure out why my savegames were not booting in-game, they couldn't boot them on their side either...
What I do know is that I tested this mod from top to bottom. Every single thing has been tested and I spent over 250 hours just on validating all of it. The possibility of this being a bug per se is not likely. I play a mage in all my games so I would have definitely seen it if something was wrong with Destruction given it's the main school of magic for direct damage...
Try the 2 fixes I suggested and let me know how it went. We'll check it out from there.
Have a nice day!
For #1 I started off by simply disabling the mod then uninstalling and reinstalling it. That didn't change anything. So I tried completely deleting the mod from Vortex, redownloaded it, added it back into Vortex, installed it and enabled it. This has no effect either.
For #2 I loaded up one of my earliest saves before I had ANY mods installed. It was such an early save, I had to give myself a Ring of Peerless Destruction so I could Disenchant that to get the enchantment to test with. That had no effect. I took that same save and ran it with TTRSO disabled and I was able to enchant head armor correctly. I didn't try the other since the character in that particular save didn't have anything else on hand I could test with, but figured this was likely an "all or nothing" issue.
Not sure what else to try. For the time being I get around it by activating the "Enchanting Freedom" mod, and then deactivating it when I'm not actively creating magic items, but that's an bothersome work-around.
I guess I should point out that I'm only using the "TTR_Skill_Overhaul" main file. I'm not using the optional "TTR_Skill_Overhaul_Merged" file even though I do have all the DLC content. When I install "TTR_Skill_Overhaul" within Vortex, I do select all three DLC on that page, and I only select the 6 Mage related skills.
Would it be possible to check the files are physically there please?
I'm not privy on how Vortex actually put files on the disk, I know they hired the guy from another very popular mod manager to make Vortex. His previous mod manager used a virtual filesystem so maybe Vortex does the same.
In any case, I would make sure you see:
If something is missing, Vortex might have a bug. If everything is there, I guess it's something else ;)
Idea #2
Try to put TTRSO ESP files loaded last in your mod order.
I don't expect much change given you've tried without any mod, but this is just to cover the basics.
Idea #3
Have you visited TTRSO custom merchant in Winterhold?
If he has a `Fortify "school of magic"` item, try disenchanting this item instead and then use that one to enchant.
While a long shot, it's possible I had to create a new enchantment for this and this is the only one that allows enchanting on most gear pieces.
Idea #4
What is your edition of Skyrim?
If you have the anniversary edition, it's possible TTRSO has some conflicts with it. They changed a whole lot of stuff if I recall correctly.
Note
I just want to add I'm sorry you're going through this problem. I usually takes extensive notes about the changes I've made, but this one fell through the cracks. I simply don't know what is the actual expected behavior because I used a color coded system 10 years ago and I didn't note what means what... That was really silly of me and I'm a bit banging my head against the wall for that ;)
With all 3/3 Mage Armor Dragonhide gives 376 armor rating while Ebonyflesh gives 400. Weirdly, I can cast Ebonyflesh on top of Dragonhide and get an armor rating of 475 (The active spells menu only says Ebonyflesh is active regardless of which order I cast the spells).
I've also tried it with less than all 3 Mage Armor perks and the armor rating values are weird.
Dragonhide Armor Rating:
0/3 Mage Armor -> 1
1/3 Mage Armor -> 126
2/3 Mage Armor -> 251
3/3 Mage Armor -> 376
Dragonhide + Ebonyflesh Armor Rating:
0/3 Mage Armor -> 100
1/3 Mage Armor -> 225
2/3 Mage Armor -> 350
3/3 Mage Armor -> 475
If I had to guess, Dragonhide is supposed to have an Armor rating of 125, but the base armor rating is missing so instead of giving 125 with 0/3 Mage Armor it instead gives some small value that gets rounded up to 1 and each level of Mage Armor adds +125 rating.
You stated 2 things that make me think this:
TTRSO definitely modifies the description of Dragonhide. It should show the same description as the other flesh spells.
Also, in vanilla Skyrim, the spell WAS a completely different magic effect. TTRSO changed it to use the same magic effect as Ebonyflesh and the others with a base of 120 AR. Given it's the exact same magic effect in TTRSO, it's absolutely impossible to stack them.
The fact the description is NOT the one from TTRSO and that you can cast Dragonhide + Ebonyflesh at the same time and they're stacking shows there's something abnormal.
Possible solutions
Have you tried to load TTRSO as far down as possible in your mod list order?
Have you tried with an earlier savegame? It's not unheard of that savegames corrupt themselves in very weird ways sometimes...
If it doesn't seem to work with an earlier savegame, try to download an unmoded savegame from this site. I've seen cases in Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim where even starting a completely new game after reinstalling the game didn't work... You can always cheat yourself the spells and perk points to test it out.
If it doesn't work, you should try reinstalling the Alteration module. You can find instructions for that in the description, there's no need to reinstall the whole mod, simply do it for Alteration.
Keep me posted please, I'm curious to see if it solved the problem and what actually solved it.
Cutting Room Floor was the problem; I have both CRF and the CRF survival patch installed, and it was the base mod plugin not the patch plugin. Moving the TTRSO plugin broke another mod I was using, Forceful Tongue - Shout Overhaul. Forceful Tongue needs to have its plugin after TTRSO to make sure the Dragon Aspect shout doesn't revert to vanilla (didn't check other shouts).
The plugin order that appears to resolve things:
This plugin order Dragonhide now has the 125 armor and 10% unarmed description. Casting Dragonhide with 3/3 Mage Armor gives 500 rating. And Forceful Tongue's Dragon Aspect works.
However the Ebonyflesh + Dragonhide state is still possible, and it works the same with Iron, Stone, and Oak.
3/3 Mage Armor ____flesh + Dragonhide:
Ebony -> 475 (100 + 125*3)
Iron -> 455 (80 + 125*3)
Stone -> 435 (60 + 125*3)
Oak -> 415 (40 + 125*3)
Further testing I've found this isn't unique to Dragonhide, it seems to happen any time you cast a lower tier Mage Armor spell after a higher tier one (The order for Dragonhide + ____Flesh spell probably didn't matter before because Dragonhide wasn't working properly).
Ebony + Iron -> 380 rating (80 + 100*3)
Iron + Oak -> 280 (40 + 80*3)
etc.
It seems like lower tier Mage Armor spells aren't overwriting the higher tier Mage Armor perk bonuses properly. Casting a higher tier Mage Armor spell overwrites the armor rating properly.
For the behavior with ForcefulTongue, it's totally normal, TTRSO didn't break anything. When 2 mods change the same in-game record, the last loaded mod wins and apply its change over any other mod. That's why load order is important.
As for the flesh spells combining, I'm a bit perplexed. On one hand, I haven't touch TTRSO in years so I'm fuzzy on the very technical details... I think it might be a Skyrim bug where a lower value effect can't overwrite the upper value effect in some cases. It would explain why if you cast Dragonhide before, the Mage Armor perk doesn't get overridden, but if you cast Dragonhide after, the Mage Armor perk gets overridden with the higher value. At this point, it looks legit to me. The important part is that the player is not penalized so I guess it's acceptable.
I hope this answers all your questions. If not, don't hesitate to post again.
I've never made a mod or patch before, but I'm looking the shout magic effects in SSEEdit and I can see that TTRSO adds a script that seems to be responsible, along with some keywords for shout magic and duration(when applicable), and I'm guessing if I patched those onto the FT shouts they could work with TTRSO. Am I on the right track here?
I haven't tested what happens with the other mod managers, so I'm a bit reluctant to recommend anything else I haven't tested myself...
As long as the mod manager you use is fulfilling the scripting specs that NMM had for installing mods (FOMOD), I guess there shouldn't be any problem whatsoever. You're also the first one to bring that up and since people have moved away from NMM long ago and I never heard any complaints, I guess it's another reason to think it should be fine.
I'll try to find some time to update the description.
Note: It might not be as simple... That description is live on a couple sources:
- All my mods descriptions on NexusMods
- Install procedures inside the FOMOD (those won't be updated)
- My current website mod pages
- My new website mod pages
- etc.
So yeah, simple demand, not always so easily applicable