This is the Skyrim Special Edition version. For the original Skyrim game, click here
Any feedback is welcome here. If you don't like my work, I can respect that as long as you show respect in return. And if you have any suggestions, feel free to post them too.
There's been a lot of reports in the last couple months about Form 43 not being updated to Form 44.
For TTRSO, this will not cause you any problems.
I've answered extensively on the reasons why it's fine and why third party programs tend to report this as an error even if it's not always one. Simply search the comments if you want to know more.
I would ask you kindly to stop reporting about it.
People comes with good intentions, but sadly they usually report about it in the worst fear spreading way possible... It's getting irritating to have to explain again and again why it's not a problem. I'm one of the very, very, very few mod author that still support and answer questions on his mods after 9 years. I'd wager we're less than 10 total in the whole Skyrim community. Please, be mindful of how you report stuff, it's important to motivate mod authors to continue their good work ;)
Will Combat mods, interfere with say the unarmed combat quest for some NPCs. Right now I have Blade & Blunt in my list. And whenever I challenge the NPC to a fist fight, real damage gets applied. And then all hell breaks loose. I get a bounty, and my followers start attacking. I've tried to do some looking myself since I know a moderate amount of modding experience, but this kinda has be scratching my head. I hope you can shed some light on this issue. Hell I even installed the Modern Brawl Bug again and put it at the end, without success. I don't know if it has to do with how damage works with the new brawler gloves that CC provides.
Edit: The character is a blacksmith, and is gaining additional damage against specific armor types through your smithing perk tree.
From what I read, you're asking if my mod will have the same problem as the Blade & Blunt mod has with fist fights. But what throws me off a bit is that the edit references "your smithing perk tree". 🤔
Normally, you shouldn't have trouble with fist fights with TTRSO (this mod). I never encountered a problem with these fist fight quests in any of my walkthroughs. I even bundle the Moder Brawl Bug mod directly in the installation of this mod so people don't forget about it. So no, you should NOT encounter the same problems as you did with Blade & Blunt.
But in the off chance you would, for whatever supernatural reason, you could always use the console to reset any perk tree you want. You won't lose your perk points as they will be fully "reimbursed" to you while resetting the perk tree, like you never spent them! You could use that to do the quest you want and then spend your perk points again to get back what you had. It would be a workaround, but at least you would have a way to continue without missing a good chunk of content to play. Better have options than no options at all 😁
Well I have both installed, sorry, I have trouble explaining things. I thought maybe about applying an exception rule in the bonus damage that the smithing tree can apply, and make it, so that it doesn't affect unarmed combat. But I will try it without Blade & Blunt and see what happens. (if that is the issue. )
So I did a new game, no perks in smithing and no Blade and Blunt. But with brawler gloves from the CC. And I was still getting aggro doing the fist fight encounter. I don't usually have this problems with some of my other mod lists, just seems to happen with this one. That's why I wanted to look into the effects. See if CC is compatible with TTRSO. And I know you make edits to combat as well.
Sorry CC is short for the Creation Club mods that come with Anniversary Edition. As for the combat, I suppose I just mean the way TTRSO changes the Perks; And at the same time my ignorance about TTRSO. But I'm thinking that the issue isn't TTRSO. So once again I apologize.
Um.. but specifically, there's nothing I can really see in there.
All I know is that even with the Modern Brawl Bug Fix from your mod, and my own. Doing Unarmed combat during the fist fight scenarios. Like with the female nord in white run you can get as a follower (Uthgerd the Unbroken). Leads them to becoming agroo'd as if it were a real fight. (and me getting a bounty, and being killed xD)
[ Short answer ] No and this is NOT what's happening to you
[ Long answer ] Every armor type is balanced along the same characteristics, their nature determines their pros & cons.
Heavy armor offers more physical protection, but you will incur a more severe penalty to Stamina and Magicka regeneration. If you're NOT having enough Stamina regeneration, you might not see your Stamina regenerate at all. Same thing with Magicka. You can solve this by wearing enchanted items that boost your Stamina and/or your Magicka regeneration.
Clothing offers no penalty to Stamina and Magicka regeneration, but provides much less physical protection. You can solve the physical protection problem by using Wards (they've been balanced accordingly) and spells like Ironflesh.
Light Armor is in the middle of Clothing and Heavy Armor. It offers some physical protection, but you will incur a some penalty to Stamina and Magicka regeneration. You can solve this by wearing enchanted items that boost your Stamina and/or your Magicka regeneration.
TTRSO is meant to be a balanced experience. Every related skills have been balanced to offer relatively the same outcome. Some skills have been nerfed while some have been boosted to achieve a relative equilibrium. Your skill choices do "matter".
I've come across what I'm assuming is a bug. I'm using just the Magic portion with Skyrim Special Edition. With this active, I can no longer enchant head gear, rings or necklaces with the "Fortify Destruction" (or Alteration, Illusion, Restoration, Conjuration) enchantment. I've tested with all my other mods turned off and just TTR_Skill_Overhaul active to verify that it's this mod that's causing the issue. I'm not sure if this was an intentional change or not.
Just to be clear, I'm referring to the "Fortify Destruction" enchantment. Not the "Fortify Destruction & Magicka Regen" enchantment which I'm aware can only be used on chest pieces.
After consulting my notes, it's been 10 years so I consult them a lot when I get some questions like this, I realize now that I shouldn't have used a color coded system to note which enchantment can be applied to which kind of gear ?
If I'm not mistaken, you should be able to enchant:
head gear (ex: helmets)
body gear (ex: armors)
hand gear (ex: gloves)
ring
amulet
Given at the moment you can't enchant head, rings or amulet, I can only think of these possibilities:
The mod didn't install correctly, you can uninstall it and reinstall it to check if this solves the problem.
This happened more often than it should have with the NexusModManagers, which sometimes just skipped files from the archive, I wouldn't put it past Vortex to do the same sometimes...
It's also possible that the Creation Engine corrupted your savegame file, you can try a previous savegame or a new game completely.
Usually, those small corruptions are imperceptible, but sometimes you randomly can't do something that you should be able to do... The Creation Engine is very finicky and have some wild quirks sometimes.
For example...
In Skyrim, at some point I stopped being able to train Restoration. Even on a new game without any mod installed... Even re-installing Windows didn't solve the problem...
In Oblivion, which is the same engine, I stopped being able to create new games. I had to use a savegame downloaded from the community otherwise the game would simply not launch. I contacted Bethesda at the time and after 4 months of back and forth, and many Windows re-install, they just couldn't figure out why my savegames were not booting in-game, they couldn't boot them on their side either...
What I do know is that I tested this mod from top to bottom. Every single thing has been tested and I spent over 250 hours just on validating all of it. The possibility of this being a bug per se is not likely. I play a mage in all my games so I would have definitely seen it if something was wrong with Destruction given it's the main school of magic for direct damage... Try the 2 fixes I suggested and let me know how it went. We'll check it out from there. Have a nice day!
For #1 I started off by simply disabling the mod then uninstalling and reinstalling it. That didn't change anything. So I tried completely deleting the mod from Vortex, redownloaded it, added it back into Vortex, installed it and enabled it. This has no effect either.
For #2 I loaded up one of my earliest saves before I had ANY mods installed. It was such an early save, I had to give myself a Ring of Peerless Destruction so I could Disenchant that to get the enchantment to test with. That had no effect. I took that same save and ran it with TTRSO disabled and I was able to enchant head armor correctly. I didn't try the other since the character in that particular save didn't have anything else on hand I could test with, but figured this was likely an "all or nothing" issue.
Not sure what else to try. For the time being I get around it by activating the "Enchanting Freedom" mod, and then deactivating it when I'm not actively creating magic items, but that's an bothersome work-around.
I guess I should point out that I'm only using the "TTR_Skill_Overhaul" main file. I'm not using the optional "TTR_Skill_Overhaul_Merged" file even though I do have all the DLC content. When I install "TTR_Skill_Overhaul" within Vortex, I do select all three DLC on that page, and I only select the 6 Mage related skills.
Idea #1 Would it be possible to check the files are physically there please?
I'm not privy on how Vortex actually put files on the disk, I know they hired the guy from another very popular mod manager to make Vortex. His previous mod manager used a virtual filesystem so maybe Vortex does the same.
In any case, I would make sure you see:
the 6 ESP files (1 per magic school)
the ESM file
the scripts from my mod are installed under Scripts folder (you can check TTRSO archive file for the names of the scripts)
If something is missing, Vortex might have a bug. If everything is there, I guess it's something else ;)
Idea #2 Try to put TTRSO ESP files loaded last in your mod order.
I don't expect much change given you've tried without any mod, but this is just to cover the basics.
Idea #3 Have you visited TTRSO custom merchant in Winterhold?
If he has a `Fortify "school of magic"` item, try disenchanting this item instead and then use that one to enchant.
While a long shot, it's possible I had to create a new enchantment for this and this is the only one that allows enchanting on most gear pieces.
Idea #4 What is your edition of Skyrim?
If you have the anniversary edition, it's possible TTRSO has some conflicts with it. They changed a whole lot of stuff if I recall correctly.
Note I just want to add I'm sorry you're going through this problem. I usually takes extensive notes about the changes I've made, but this one fell through the cracks. I simply don't know what is the actual expected behavior because I used a color coded system 10 years ago and I didn't note what means what... That was really silly of me and I'm a bit banging my head against the wall for that ;)
I'm a bit confused by the changes to the Dragonhide Alteration spell. The mod description says it's supposed to be like the other mage armor spells with an armor rating (the spell description is still the Vanilla one though so it's not very helpful), but it seems weaker than Ebonyflesh.
With all 3/3 Mage Armor Dragonhide gives 376 armor rating while Ebonyflesh gives 400. Weirdly, I can cast Ebonyflesh on top of Dragonhide and get an armor rating of 475 (The active spells menu only says Ebonyflesh is active regardless of which order I cast the spells).
I've also tried it with less than all 3 Mage Armor perks and the armor rating values are weird.
If I had to guess, Dragonhide is supposed to have an Armor rating of 125, but the base armor rating is missing so instead of giving 125 with 0/3 Mage Armor it instead gives some small value that gets rounded up to 1 and each level of Mage Armor adds +125 rating.
the spell description is still the Vanilla onethe spell description is still the Vanilla one
Dragonhide + Ebonyflesh Armor Rating
TTRSO definitely modifies the description of Dragonhide. It should show the same description as the other flesh spells.
Also, in vanilla Skyrim, the spell WAS a completely different magic effect. TTRSO changed it to use the same magic effect as Ebonyflesh and the others with a base of 120 AR. Given it's the exact same magic effect in TTRSO, it's absolutely impossible to stack them.
The fact the description is NOT the one from TTRSO and that you can cast Dragonhide + Ebonyflesh at the same time and they're stacking shows there's something abnormal.
Possible solutions Have you tried to load TTRSO as far down as possible in your mod list order?
Have you tried with an earlier savegame? It's not unheard of that savegames corrupt themselves in very weird ways sometimes...
If it doesn't seem to work with an earlier savegame, try to download an unmoded savegame from this site. I've seen cases in Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim where even starting a completely new game after reinstalling the game didn't work... You can always cheat yourself the spells and perk points to test it out.
If it doesn't work, you should try reinstalling the Alteration module. You can find instructions for that in the description, there's no need to reinstall the whole mod, simply do it for Alteration.
Keep me posted please, I'm curious to see if it solved the problem and what actually solved it.
It was plugin order that mattered. I moved TTRSO to the bottom of the mod order, no change. I moved the TTRSO plugins to the bottom of the plugin order and that fixed (and broke) things.
Cutting Room Floor was the problem; I have both CRF and the CRF survival patch installed, and it was the base mod plugin not the patch plugin. Moving the TTRSO plugin broke another mod I was using, Forceful Tongue - Shout Overhaul. Forceful Tongue needs to have its plugin after TTRSO to make sure the Dragon Aspect shout doesn't revert to vanilla (didn't check other shouts).
The plugin order that appears to resolve things:
Cutting Room Floor.esp
TTRSO esp plugins
ForcefulTongue.esp
This plugin order Dragonhide now has the 125 armor and 10% unarmed description. Casting Dragonhide with 3/3 Mage Armor gives 500 rating. And Forceful Tongue's Dragon Aspect works.
However the Ebonyflesh + Dragonhide state is still possible, and it works the same with Iron, Stone, and Oak.
3/3 Mage Armor ____flesh + Dragonhide: Ebony -> 475 (100 + 125*3) Iron -> 455 (80 + 125*3) Stone -> 435 (60 + 125*3) Oak -> 415 (40 + 125*3)
Further testing I've found this isn't unique to Dragonhide, it seems to happen any time you cast a lower tier Mage Armor spell after a higher tier one (The order for Dragonhide + ____Flesh spell probably didn't matter before because Dragonhide wasn't working properly).
Ebony + Iron -> 380 rating (80 + 100*3) Iron + Oak -> 280 (40 + 80*3) etc.
It seems like lower tier Mage Armor spells aren't overwriting the higher tier Mage Armor perk bonuses properly. Casting a higher tier Mage Armor spell overwrites the armor rating properly.
For the behavior with ForcefulTongue, it's totally normal, TTRSO didn't break anything. When 2 mods change the same in-game record, the last loaded mod wins and apply its change over any other mod. That's why load order is important.
As for the flesh spells combining, I'm a bit perplexed. On one hand, I haven't touch TTRSO in years so I'm fuzzy on the very technical details... I think it might be a Skyrim bug where a lower value effect can't overwrite the upper value effect in some cases. It would explain why if you cast Dragonhide before, the Mage Armor perk doesn't get overridden, but if you cast Dragonhide after, the Mage Armor perk gets overridden with the higher value. At this point, it looks legit to me. The important part is that the player is not penalized so I guess it's acceptable.
I hope this answers all your questions. If not, don't hesitate to post again.
Actually, the only reason I'm using Forceful Tongues, really, is because I like the changes it made to Dragon Aspect. However the FT shouts don't give Speech experience and I'm wondering how TTRSO gives Speech experience and whether I could make my own patch to make FT's shouts give exp.
I've never made a mod or patch before, but I'm looking the shout magic effects in SSEEdit and I can see that TTRSO adds a script that seems to be responsible, along with some keywords for shout magic and duration(when applicable), and I'm guessing if I patched those onto the FT shouts they could work with TTRSO. Am I on the right track here?
I noticed the description recommended NMM, which has been discontinued and is known to break the game. Could you switch the recommendation to MO2, or if you really want to stick with Nexus, Vortex?
To be fair, while it's true NNM has been discontinued for a while now, the last version of the mod has been published way before that
I haven't tested what happens with the other mod managers, so I'm a bit reluctant to recommend anything else I haven't tested myself...
As long as the mod manager you use is fulfilling the scripting specs that NMM had for installing mods (FOMOD), I guess there shouldn't be any problem whatsoever. You're also the first one to bring that up and since people have moved away from NMM long ago and I never heard any complaints, I guess it's another reason to think it should be fine.
I'll try to find some time to update the description.
Note: It might not be as simple... That description is live on a couple sources:
All my mods descriptions on NexusMods
Install procedures inside the FOMOD (those won't be updated)
My current website mod pages
My new website mod pages
etc.
So yeah, simple demand, not always so easily applicable
First of all thank you for your awesome mod, I can't even play skyrim without it now !
I wanted to know if there is a place where I can find the exact changes your mod made, for example for shout recovery, magnitude, ... Cause the HTML version of your site doesn't work anymore and I didn't find any details on your website.
Thanks for the kind words. I spent a whole lot of time on this mod, but the feedback over the years has made it more than worth it. Thanks!
?Cause the HTML version of your site doesn't work anymore and I didn't find any details on your website
My website is doing just fine, I don't know why you wouldn't have access to it... There was a 1 hour downtime for maintenance this week, but that's about it. (I think it was Wednesday)
You'll find mostly all the information you need on my website, but you can also check the `Miscellaneous files` in the `Files` section right here. There's an Excel document I used to plan and balance this mod. I think it's practically 100% up to date, but it's been years so maybe a couple small things didn't make it there...
If you still have problems with my website don't hesitate to ping me again.
First thank you for the quick answer ! That's odd that I can't access it but anyway I didn't see the file in the "Miscellaneous" section, I will definitly check that out.
Sorry, I'm not an expert of lighting mods so I can't answer with absolute certainty.
My guess is: light is light, no matter the source.
If a mod changes the light sources, it will affect the light level. If the light level is darker than original, you'd have less chances to be detected. If the light level is brighter than original, you'd have more chances to be detected. If the light level is relatively the same, you'd probably have no change whatsoever.
Again, take this with a grain of salt as I simply don't know exactly how the lighting engine works in Skyrim. And since it's been 9 years since I did this mod, the details are fuzzy...
What I do remember is:
The goal was to stop the player from sneaking in broad day light without much difficulty and no investment in sneaking
I boosted the variable for detection vs light to a more realistic value
I added 2 perks that reduce said variable to improve sneaking vs light
I tested multiple times to check everything was working correctly and it did
`Infusions` are 2 perks, 1 for heavy and 1 for light armor, that simply unlock crafting recipes.
The recipes allows you to craft armor pieces with any metal and still get maximum protection. Heavy metals will provide the same protection as Daedric while light metals will provide the same protection as Dragon Scale.
It frees you from using either Daedric or Dragon Scale as your only armor choice. You can now rock whatever armor style you want without losing protection. The only downside is those infused armor pieces are heavier and sell for less money.
Give Feedback
245 comments
Any feedback is welcome here. If you don't like my work, I can respect that as long as you show respect in return. And if you have any suggestions, feel free to post them too.
The file wasn't tested extensively, but there shouldn't be any trouble.
You can all thank Will58448 for this version, I'm merely distributing the file.
For TTRSO, this will not cause you any problems.
I've answered extensively on the reasons why it's fine and why third party programs tend to report this as an error even if it's not always one. Simply search the comments if you want to know more.
I would ask you kindly to stop reporting about it.
People comes with good intentions, but sadly they usually report about it in the worst fear spreading way possible... It's getting irritating to have to explain again and again why it's not a problem. I'm one of the very, very, very few mod author that still support and answer questions on his mods after 9 years. I'd wager we're less than 10 total in the whole Skyrim community. Please, be mindful of how you report stuff, it's important to motivate mod authors to continue their good work ;)
Edit: The character is a blacksmith, and is gaining additional damage against specific armor types through your smithing perk tree.
Normally, you shouldn't have trouble with fist fights with TTRSO (this mod). I never encountered a problem with these fist fight quests in any of my walkthroughs. I even bundle the Moder Brawl Bug mod directly in the installation of this mod so people don't forget about it. So no, you should NOT encounter the same problems as you did with Blade & Blunt.
But in the off chance you would, for whatever supernatural reason, you could always use the console to reset any perk tree you want. You won't lose your perk points as they will be fully "reimbursed" to you while resetting the perk tree, like you never spent them! You could use that to do the quest you want and then spend your perk points again to get back what you had. It would be a workaround, but at least you would have a way to continue without missing a good chunk of content to play. Better have options than no options at all 😁
Not much trouble, just skipping a few things along the way 😅
From you last comment, I guess `CC` another mod?
If so, then there might be something I could check if you provide me the link to the mod.
This doesn't narrow things for me 😅
Also I don't remember TTRSO making direct changes to "combat"... 🤔
Maybe you could elaborate a bit on this one so I better understand the situation?
Um.. but specifically,
there's nothing I can really see in there.
All I know is that even with the Modern Brawl Bug Fix from your mod, and my own. Doing Unarmed combat during the fist fight scenarios. Like with the female nord in white run you can get as a follower (Uthgerd the Unbroken). Leads them to becoming agroo'd as if it were a real fight. (and me getting a bounty, and being killed xD)
No and this is NOT what's happening to you
[ Long answer ]
Every armor type is balanced along the same characteristics, their nature determines their pros & cons.
Heavy armor offers more physical protection, but you will incur a more severe penalty to Stamina and Magicka regeneration. If you're NOT having enough Stamina regeneration, you might not see your Stamina regenerate at all. Same thing with Magicka. You can solve this by wearing enchanted items that boost your Stamina and/or your Magicka regeneration.
Clothing offers no penalty to Stamina and Magicka regeneration, but provides much less physical protection. You can solve the physical protection problem by using Wards (they've been balanced accordingly) and spells like Ironflesh.
Light Armor is in the middle of Clothing and Heavy Armor. It offers some physical protection, but you will incur a some penalty to Stamina and Magicka regeneration. You can solve this by wearing enchanted items that boost your Stamina and/or your Magicka regeneration.
TTRSO is meant to be a balanced experience. Every related skills have been balanced to offer relatively the same outcome. Some skills have been nerfed while some have been boosted to achieve a relative equilibrium. Your skill choices do "matter".
Just to be clear, I'm referring to the "Fortify Destruction" enchantment. Not the "Fortify Destruction & Magicka Regen" enchantment which I'm aware can only be used on chest pieces.
After consulting my notes, it's been 10 years so I consult them a lot when I get some questions like this, I realize now that I shouldn't have used a color coded system to note which enchantment can be applied to which kind of gear ?
If I'm not mistaken, you should be able to enchant:
Given at the moment you can't enchant head, rings or amulet, I can only think of these possibilities:
This happened more often than it should have with the NexusModManagers, which sometimes just skipped files from the archive, I wouldn't put it past Vortex to do the same sometimes...
Usually, those small corruptions are imperceptible, but sometimes you randomly can't do something that you should be able to do... The Creation Engine is very finicky and have some wild quirks sometimes.
For example...
In Skyrim, at some point I stopped being able to train Restoration. Even on a new game without any mod installed... Even re-installing Windows didn't solve the problem...
In Oblivion, which is the same engine, I stopped being able to create new games. I had to use a savegame downloaded from the community otherwise the game would simply not launch. I contacted Bethesda at the time and after 4 months of back and forth, and many Windows re-install, they just couldn't figure out why my savegames were not booting in-game, they couldn't boot them on their side either...
What I do know is that I tested this mod from top to bottom. Every single thing has been tested and I spent over 250 hours just on validating all of it. The possibility of this being a bug per se is not likely. I play a mage in all my games so I would have definitely seen it if something was wrong with Destruction given it's the main school of magic for direct damage...
Try the 2 fixes I suggested and let me know how it went. We'll check it out from there.
Have a nice day!
For #1 I started off by simply disabling the mod then uninstalling and reinstalling it. That didn't change anything. So I tried completely deleting the mod from Vortex, redownloaded it, added it back into Vortex, installed it and enabled it. This has no effect either.
For #2 I loaded up one of my earliest saves before I had ANY mods installed. It was such an early save, I had to give myself a Ring of Peerless Destruction so I could Disenchant that to get the enchantment to test with. That had no effect. I took that same save and ran it with TTRSO disabled and I was able to enchant head armor correctly. I didn't try the other since the character in that particular save didn't have anything else on hand I could test with, but figured this was likely an "all or nothing" issue.
Not sure what else to try. For the time being I get around it by activating the "Enchanting Freedom" mod, and then deactivating it when I'm not actively creating magic items, but that's an bothersome work-around.
I guess I should point out that I'm only using the "TTR_Skill_Overhaul" main file. I'm not using the optional "TTR_Skill_Overhaul_Merged" file even though I do have all the DLC content. When I install "TTR_Skill_Overhaul" within Vortex, I do select all three DLC on that page, and I only select the 6 Mage related skills.
Would it be possible to check the files are physically there please?
I'm not privy on how Vortex actually put files on the disk, I know they hired the guy from another very popular mod manager to make Vortex. His previous mod manager used a virtual filesystem so maybe Vortex does the same.
In any case, I would make sure you see:
If something is missing, Vortex might have a bug. If everything is there, I guess it's something else ;)
Idea #2
Try to put TTRSO ESP files loaded last in your mod order.
I don't expect much change given you've tried without any mod, but this is just to cover the basics.
Idea #3
Have you visited TTRSO custom merchant in Winterhold?
If he has a `Fortify "school of magic"` item, try disenchanting this item instead and then use that one to enchant.
While a long shot, it's possible I had to create a new enchantment for this and this is the only one that allows enchanting on most gear pieces.
Idea #4
What is your edition of Skyrim?
If you have the anniversary edition, it's possible TTRSO has some conflicts with it. They changed a whole lot of stuff if I recall correctly.
Note
I just want to add I'm sorry you're going through this problem. I usually takes extensive notes about the changes I've made, but this one fell through the cracks. I simply don't know what is the actual expected behavior because I used a color coded system 10 years ago and I didn't note what means what... That was really silly of me and I'm a bit banging my head against the wall for that ;)
With all 3/3 Mage Armor Dragonhide gives 376 armor rating while Ebonyflesh gives 400. Weirdly, I can cast Ebonyflesh on top of Dragonhide and get an armor rating of 475 (The active spells menu only says Ebonyflesh is active regardless of which order I cast the spells).
I've also tried it with less than all 3 Mage Armor perks and the armor rating values are weird.
Dragonhide Armor Rating:
0/3 Mage Armor -> 1
1/3 Mage Armor -> 126
2/3 Mage Armor -> 251
3/3 Mage Armor -> 376
Dragonhide + Ebonyflesh Armor Rating:
0/3 Mage Armor -> 100
1/3 Mage Armor -> 225
2/3 Mage Armor -> 350
3/3 Mage Armor -> 475
If I had to guess, Dragonhide is supposed to have an Armor rating of 125, but the base armor rating is missing so instead of giving 125 with 0/3 Mage Armor it instead gives some small value that gets rounded up to 1 and each level of Mage Armor adds +125 rating.
You stated 2 things that make me think this:
TTRSO definitely modifies the description of Dragonhide. It should show the same description as the other flesh spells.
Also, in vanilla Skyrim, the spell WAS a completely different magic effect. TTRSO changed it to use the same magic effect as Ebonyflesh and the others with a base of 120 AR. Given it's the exact same magic effect in TTRSO, it's absolutely impossible to stack them.
The fact the description is NOT the one from TTRSO and that you can cast Dragonhide + Ebonyflesh at the same time and they're stacking shows there's something abnormal.
Possible solutions
Have you tried to load TTRSO as far down as possible in your mod list order?
Have you tried with an earlier savegame? It's not unheard of that savegames corrupt themselves in very weird ways sometimes...
If it doesn't seem to work with an earlier savegame, try to download an unmoded savegame from this site. I've seen cases in Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim where even starting a completely new game after reinstalling the game didn't work... You can always cheat yourself the spells and perk points to test it out.
If it doesn't work, you should try reinstalling the Alteration module. You can find instructions for that in the description, there's no need to reinstall the whole mod, simply do it for Alteration.
Keep me posted please, I'm curious to see if it solved the problem and what actually solved it.
Cutting Room Floor was the problem; I have both CRF and the CRF survival patch installed, and it was the base mod plugin not the patch plugin. Moving the TTRSO plugin broke another mod I was using, Forceful Tongue - Shout Overhaul. Forceful Tongue needs to have its plugin after TTRSO to make sure the Dragon Aspect shout doesn't revert to vanilla (didn't check other shouts).
The plugin order that appears to resolve things:
This plugin order Dragonhide now has the 125 armor and 10% unarmed description. Casting Dragonhide with 3/3 Mage Armor gives 500 rating. And Forceful Tongue's Dragon Aspect works.
However the Ebonyflesh + Dragonhide state is still possible, and it works the same with Iron, Stone, and Oak.
3/3 Mage Armor ____flesh + Dragonhide:
Ebony -> 475 (100 + 125*3)
Iron -> 455 (80 + 125*3)
Stone -> 435 (60 + 125*3)
Oak -> 415 (40 + 125*3)
Further testing I've found this isn't unique to Dragonhide, it seems to happen any time you cast a lower tier Mage Armor spell after a higher tier one (The order for Dragonhide + ____Flesh spell probably didn't matter before because Dragonhide wasn't working properly).
Ebony + Iron -> 380 rating (80 + 100*3)
Iron + Oak -> 280 (40 + 80*3)
etc.
It seems like lower tier Mage Armor spells aren't overwriting the higher tier Mage Armor perk bonuses properly. Casting a higher tier Mage Armor spell overwrites the armor rating properly.
For the behavior with ForcefulTongue, it's totally normal, TTRSO didn't break anything. When 2 mods change the same in-game record, the last loaded mod wins and apply its change over any other mod. That's why load order is important.
As for the flesh spells combining, I'm a bit perplexed. On one hand, I haven't touch TTRSO in years so I'm fuzzy on the very technical details... I think it might be a Skyrim bug where a lower value effect can't overwrite the upper value effect in some cases. It would explain why if you cast Dragonhide before, the Mage Armor perk doesn't get overridden, but if you cast Dragonhide after, the Mage Armor perk gets overridden with the higher value. At this point, it looks legit to me. The important part is that the player is not penalized so I guess it's acceptable.
I hope this answers all your questions. If not, don't hesitate to post again.
I've never made a mod or patch before, but I'm looking the shout magic effects in SSEEdit and I can see that TTRSO adds a script that seems to be responsible, along with some keywords for shout magic and duration(when applicable), and I'm guessing if I patched those onto the FT shouts they could work with TTRSO. Am I on the right track here?
I haven't tested what happens with the other mod managers, so I'm a bit reluctant to recommend anything else I haven't tested myself...
As long as the mod manager you use is fulfilling the scripting specs that NMM had for installing mods (FOMOD), I guess there shouldn't be any problem whatsoever. You're also the first one to bring that up and since people have moved away from NMM long ago and I never heard any complaints, I guess it's another reason to think it should be fine.
I'll try to find some time to update the description.
Note: It might not be as simple... That description is live on a couple sources:
- All my mods descriptions on NexusMods
- Install procedures inside the FOMOD (those won't be updated)
- My current website mod pages
- My new website mod pages
- etc.
So yeah, simple demand, not always so easily applicableFirst of all thank you for your awesome mod, I can't even play skyrim without it now !
I wanted to know if there is a place where I can find the exact changes your mod made, for example for shout recovery, magnitude, ...
Cause the HTML version of your site doesn't work anymore and I didn't find any details on your website.
Thank you !
Thanks for the kind words. I spent a whole lot of time on this mod, but the feedback over the years has made it more than worth it. Thanks!
My website is doing just fine, I don't know why you wouldn't have access to it... There was a 1 hour downtime for maintenance this week, but that's about it. (I think it was Wednesday)
You'll find mostly all the information you need on my website, but you can also check the `Miscellaneous files` in the `Files` section right here. There's an Excel document I used to plan and balance this mod. I think it's practically 100% up to date, but it's been years so maybe a couple small things didn't make it there...
If you still have problems with my website don't hesitate to ping me again.
Have a nice day!
TheThirdRace
First thank you for the quick answer ! That's odd that I can't access it but anyway I didn't see the file in the "Miscellaneous" section, I will definitly check that out.
Thank you !
My guess is: light is light, no matter the source.
If a mod changes the light sources, it will affect the light level. If the light level is darker than original, you'd have less chances to be detected. If the light level is brighter than original, you'd have more chances to be detected. If the light level is relatively the same, you'd probably have no change whatsoever.
Again, take this with a grain of salt as I simply don't know exactly how the lighting engine works in Skyrim. And since it's been 9 years since I did this mod, the details are fuzzy...
What I do remember is:
**EDIT**
Nvm am dumb, didn't see the "Infused" category of all armour pieces in the forge
`Infusions` are 2 perks, 1 for heavy and 1 for light armor, that simply unlock crafting recipes.
The recipes allows you to craft armor pieces with any metal and still get maximum protection. Heavy metals will provide the same protection as Daedric while light metals will provide the same protection as Dragon Scale.
It frees you from using either Daedric or Dragon Scale as your only armor choice. You can now rock whatever armor style you want without losing protection. The only downside is those infused armor pieces are heavier and sell for less money.