I went all in on DPF. Version 2 is now the official version. It switches every armor piece it can now. This might, most likely, affect quest items if they are <armor>. Since I can't remember a single quest where I would have this problem I, for now, wont be fixing it. Just exclude the NPC in the SPID distribution file (and make sure the NPC isn't already processed), or reset inventory.
yo really cool premise, but i was wondering if there was a way for you to add a filter so we can prevent the destruction of enchanted gear? i have left unknown - item identification system installed and i'm a little concerned it'll conflict in strange ways, but i really like the idea of reducing the gear that drops in my game outside of enchanted loot.
But before implementing that I want to have a really good way of handling broken armor when in your inventory. Currently not happy about it just unequipping.
Very promising! I'm using Service Your Gear mod, which does a similar thing to NPCs (as an option to the main feature - player's armor degradation and breakage). I suppose turning off the NPC feature in that mod and letting your mod go into action will work without issues?
I noticed in the description that you also included size restriction for armor. Mortal Weapons and Armors has that feature, but it introduces an ugly visual effect of armor disappearing / appearing on NPCs upon their death. If your mod eliminates this, that's a huge step forward, much appreciated! Does the size checking mechanic work similar to MWA mod, and are we informed somehow by your mod that an armor part doesn't fit our character?
Since you mentioned that the armor stays on NPCs visually, I assume it works fine with Dismembering Framework?
Never heard of SYG. Might work, since DPF clones the armor pieces to a form. But more likely not since this mod fires as late as it can, and thus probably replaces whatever SYG has done (more so with the upcoming 2.0). But again DPF is a champ in cloning stuff. Tempering from Loot & Degradation works, so maybe.
Yes, the flickering is gone since the armor is replaced while you are not looking (which has it's own downsides, as seen above). I can't remember how MWA did the informing, but here, for now, they are just tagged as [Non-fitting], [Too Small] etc, and will unequip if you try to equip it anyway.
I have no idea how DF works, unfortunately. But from reading their mode page I'd guess no.
I played for a short bit with this and the result is mixed.
Service Your Gear and your mod don't seem to be in hard conflict (at least in armor breaking functionality), both fire up and just "share" the available armor items between them. The only issue is inconsistency in how broken armor is treated, due to differences in mechanics. Your mod adds those short descriptions to broken items, and SYG does not. Equipping restrictions work a bit differently too (this however partly depends on settings chosen in SYG). So in short, things kind of work together, but in a messy way.
Looks like Dismembering Framework doesn't conflict, I can cut off the enemies' limbs and still find broken items treated by your mod in their inventory.
What doesn't seem to work for me at all is the size difference feature. I haven't seen even a single item during my play that I couldn't equip due to size differences - I mean only the items that were not affected by the breaking mechanics from both your mod and SYG (breaking of armor excludes size restriction, right?). I could equip these items without issues and there were no size tags at all. I had this feature set to "Hard" in MCM, so I suppose it would happen quite frequently if it worked? Turning SYG off entirely didn't help either.
I guess something is interefering on my end... I don't know, maybe I played too short after all or something? Will try once more, maybe with a different player armor breakage mod?
Another feature that does work and is much appreciated, is the removal of any additional, non-equipped armor / clothing. It definitely helps to bring a bit more challenge to the game. Thank you for your mod!
The size difference should work. This feature internally is integrated with the breakage system. If one doesn't work, the other shouldn't either. They even share the same keywords, for now.
But wait on the 2.0 update. Maybe I botched something in the 1.0 release.
Hm, tried the new update and the mod just doesn't seem to work for me at all. I even deactivated Service Your Gear and Dismembering Framework, set my weapon skill to high, set everything in your mod to highest chance. Nothing happens - no tags on items and I can equip everything without problems :( I don't know, maybe there's some mod conflict I can't recognize. I guess I'll pass for now. Still, the mod idea is really nice, especially the size difference. Anyway, thank you for your hard work on the mod!
EDIT: Ok, I apologize, need to correct myself - I started new game with this installed (updated version), and looks like things began to work - both breakage and size difference. I noticed though that the unequipped items aren't removed now. I can see some spare armor pieces on them which I can safely equip. Interestingly, these are the same items that got broken (or set to unfitting). So for example there's a broken Iron Armor, unfitting Iron Gauntlets + unequipped, but unbroken and fitting Iron Armor and Iron Gauntlets. Almost as if your mod duplicated the armor pieces for breaking. In short, there are two sets of the same items: broken / unfitting and unbroken/fitting. I'm guessing a mod conflict again, but this time with this one feature... I don't know. At least I can see the mod finally in action :) Thank you!
Yeah, probably old NPCs with the old script loaded. Shouldn't affect anything except that.
Again? I thought I fixed that. I had an hellish experience trying to solve that and equipping everything correctly. Can you do a console check on those, see if they belong to my mod? On the reference part they shouldn't have any reference, unlike every other mod. I'll check it out soon, but I enabled all my mods again and not a few things have broken haha.
One more observation: for me the mod seems to mess up item names - the ones that are broken or unfitting. Example of what I sometimes find on npcs (written exactly how I see it in-game): [Too Small] Rugged Mask [Too Small] Rugged MaskHide Armor [Too Small] Rugged MaskHide ArmorHide Boots [Slashed] Studded Armor [Slashed] Studded ArmorHide Bracers [Slashed] Studded ArmorHide BracersHide Boots
Perhaps scripts going crazy with multiple dead enemies?
You get many interesting bugs that I "have" squashed =)
That happened before because an armor (like body-armor) could have more than one slot, and thus existed in more that one slot in the index. But gloves only ever exist on one slot...
I can confirm that both the double naming and unequipped bug is there. The double naming feels most likely due to script lag. I think I can fix that by deleting whatever the damaged part of the name contains. The other one is a mess. I might run the inventory clean up at a later stage.
No problem, glad I could help. The mod itself is really nice in its concept and will definitely add a value to the gameplay, if cleaned from these bugs.
I am working on moving even more over to the quest (and has in my test build removed SPID). So far so good. And I think I have an solution for the renaming problem, but the unequipped is still remaining.
I just don't know why some armors keep coming back. According to the logs I generate they get identified and destroyed, and even then the exact same formid remains. And sometimes another set of clothes is there instead.
From what I saw in my quick testing, there weren't always exactly just the duplicates of broken armor parts. Sometimes there were also some other gloves or boots etc. On the other hand, almost always there were those duplicates too. So it's as if the mod didn't work 100% correctly in removing additional gear. I think renaming issue, although visually messy, isn't as serious as the duplicating problem, since this one kind of eliminates the whole point of the mod. I wish you good luck in solving this, the mod is certainly worth it.
I installed the new version a couple of days ago and went through short testing. So far the naming issue seems to have gone. Duplicating problem doesn't occur either most of the time. I had a few encounters where bandits still had some duplicates. Strangely enough, it happened only in the main Skyrim worldspace, never in interiors (like caves, forts etc.). I don't know if it's some kind of pattern or not, would have to play more to tell for sure. (Probably a coincidence, because why would the game make this mod work differently in different locations...) Overall, looks like a huge improvement, congratulations and thank you!
Interesting. Please keep me updated, because I haven't had any issues with unequipped armor pieces remaining so far. Otherwise you just have to see them as an NPC carrying some spare pieces =)
I think I have an idea for repairing stuff, with the new Courier mod that came out a couple of days ago. Anything else that can be improved?
Of course, if the issue isn't very frequent, one might just roleplay. I'll keep an eye out for duplicate situations though.
Not as much an improvement as an additional feature of sorts: do you think it's possible to make the mod's size difference feature affect NPCs that are already dead in the game? Like those dead bandits you encounter in the first hall of Bleak Falls Barrow etc. This would certainly make the gameplay even more challenging, equpiment-wise. No more happy robbing of corpses that you remember where to find ;) I'm also not sure if your mod affects NPCs killed by other NPCs? Can't remember if it was the case during testing, so apologies, if it's already there.
Alright, when searching for corpses I found multiple NPCs that failed to remove unequipped stuff. So, yeah, a shoe in inventory I can accept, but this was the whole original armor set. Sometimes it seems to fail completely. Not acceptable.
I have let the mod affect dead NPCs too, now (not uploaded). And it works by the same code that processes NPCs killed by anyone not you. So no more freebies. Since I don't calculate that, it is currently a 1 in 3 chance something is broken and if not it checks if it is the wrong size.
Played a bit more and yes - still having duplicates. Sometimes it's exactly the same sets, sometimes it's another armor. Like I said earlier, it happens mostly in the outside locations, which seems weird, but that's what I'm experiencing. Mod works definitely better than before, but looks like it still needs some tweaking
Duplicates still happen after the last update, but again, I didn't play much. Recently I've been staring new game pretty often and the only encounters that I have a chance to try are the ones around Riverwood and Whiterun. In these areas at least a chance for duplicate set (or additional armor pieces) is around 40/60. Broken armor found on already dead NPCs doesn't seem to work in Bleak Falls Barrow (two guys lying in the first hall). I found a bandit killed by some Vigilants that were on the road though, and he had all armor pieces broken or unfitting, so the feature is doing its job, just not always, it seems (understandable, if there's just a percentage chance for that). The naming problem seems to be gone for good.
Duplicates still happen after the last update, but again, I didn't play much. May it be that the NPCs holding the duplicates didn't have any broken or unfitting armor? Because the way the mods works, if it for some reason fails to clone armor it doesn't remove unequipped either.
I have written a script for this, the removal of unequipped armor even though the main script fails. I just have to test it.
Broken armor found on already dead NPCs doesn't seem to work in Bleak Falls Barrow (two guys lying in the first hall). That's the unfortunate reality. If you load in to a new area and the NPC, dead or living, spawns right in front of you there's no way for the mod to clone the armor without you seeing it. Same in an inn, shop, etc.
Since I havent had any unequipped armors for a while, but for the exception of un-processed NPCs, can you please confirm if that's the case for you too? If nothing is broken or unfitting feel safe to assume they are un-processed.
I played today for a bit and visited some bandit locations (Bleak Falls Barrow again, Silent Moons Camp, Redoran's Retreat, Swindler's Den, White River Watch) + encountered some bandits on the road.
In some of these spots the killed bandits had some duplicates - by which I mean that they had both broken / unfitting armor pieces (sometimes full sets) and some additional items (sometimes the same type, sometimes a different one). These cases are much, much less frequent now though. I'd say that in 90% of encounters the mod works properly for me now. I guess I was wrong about 40/60 chance.
Since they had both broken stuff and additional unequipped stuff, I suppose these NPCs were "processed", as you said. In other words, it's the same issue I've been having from the beginning, but ALMOST eliminated by your updates.
NPCs killed by other NPCs seem to work - I visited those spots with Lydia, who defeated many of those bandits. Can't remember though if duplicates were also on HER victims or entirely on mine.
To summarize, the issue is still there for me, but less frequent. No big deal really, at least for me. The mod works nice in most cases :)
I've always dreamed of a modification that would force me to reforge an armor if I found it on an incompatible character, i.e., another race or gender (also a dwemer) Damage is also cool idea, after a fight it's big chance it won't be usable just like that
I'd like to suggest killmoves as a condition for breakage. Putting a greatsword through a bandit leader's chest should be guaranteed destruction of the breastplate.
I like the sounds of this mod. However it doesn't want to work properly for me. I use Realm of Lorkhan as my startup, and interestingly enough all the males get turned into females wearing female clothing (male heads still). And the game resets to desktop instantly when you click on any of the travel gems. I have tired it early in the game (after the requirements) and near the end. Same result. I use BD's Armor and Clothes Replacer mostly. Except for the female housecarl addons I'm not sure what could cause it. Ideas?
Oh - I do use Ostim and Obody.
Got it sort of - does not like my female cicero replacer. Still CTD when I try to leave Realm of Lorkhan though.
I haven't encountered any of these problems you have. I do use Obody, but not Ostim or Realm of Lorkhan.
However I've encountered some other bugs. Stuff that wont get cloned, or removed, NPCs that explode into a cloud of their equipment and so on. And on the Dynamic Persistent Forms comment section it is mentioned some problems with esl flagged files.
I'm working on it and am considering clone the standard Skyrim way.
I would love it if there were an "opt in" option. By default no armors will be allowed to be broken, but I can add specific armors I want added. The issue I imagine I'll have is unique armors dropped will be wasted, or very rare armor pieces that are less likely to break (ie daedric) will be wasted. Probably not a problem for vanilla users, but with mod added content this will be a bigger concern. Tracked for now, great idea.
First: I want to keep the script as slim as possible at the moment of NPC spawn, so no special searches and such. I can add tons of stuff to the mod, but I have to limit myself due to reasons of wanting to keep the script from lagging the game.
Second: Perfect! That's the design philosophy of the mod. You should be afraid of breaking the armor the NPC wears.
With that said I want (and have it commented out in the script) the ability to choose damage type for minimizing the risk of breaking certain armor types. Like for example: the NPC has that sexy sexy wizard robe you want. Well, clothes burn easily so don't use fire. Also don't use slashing damage. Use blunt, or even better use unarmed.
Fair enough, maybe not the mod for me then. I would definitely use the mod if I could finely customize what kinds of gear can be broken under what conditions. Still, really good mod idea.
It punishes us players/playercharacter not to abuse or rely on recycling materials for crafting armors made of ingots
and maybe
If possible we need to loot at least loot 3 broken iron boots for example to be recycle and become an iron ingot 3 broken iron boots = 1 ingot 4 broken iron gauntlets = 1 ingot 1 broken iron armor =1 ingot 2 broken iron helmet = 1 ingot
66 comments
Since I can't remember a single quest where I would have this problem I, for now, wont be fixing it. Just exclude the NPC in the SPID distribution file (and make sure the NPC isn't already processed), or reset inventory.
But before implementing that I want to have a really good way of handling broken armor when in your inventory. Currently not happy about it just unequipping.
Don't forget to implement UI as well :)))))
I noticed in the description that you also included size restriction for armor. Mortal Weapons and Armors has that feature, but it introduces an ugly visual effect of armor disappearing / appearing on NPCs upon their death. If your mod eliminates this, that's a huge step forward, much appreciated! Does the size checking mechanic work similar to MWA mod, and are we informed somehow by your mod that an armor part doesn't fit our character?
Since you mentioned that the armor stays on NPCs visually, I assume it works fine with Dismembering Framework?
Might work, since DPF clones the armor pieces to a form. But more likely not since this mod fires as late as it can, and thus probably replaces whatever SYG has done (more so with the upcoming 2.0). But again DPF is a champ in cloning stuff. Tempering from Loot & Degradation works, so maybe.
Yes, the flickering is gone since the armor is replaced while you are not looking (which has it's own downsides, as seen above). I can't remember how MWA did the informing, but here, for now, they are just tagged as [Non-fitting], [Too Small] etc, and will unequip if you try to equip it anyway.
I have no idea how DF works, unfortunately. But from reading their mode page I'd guess no.
I'll do some testing and see how that works.
Service Your Gear and your mod don't seem to be in hard conflict (at least in armor breaking functionality), both fire up and just "share" the available armor items between them. The only issue is inconsistency in how broken armor is treated, due to differences in mechanics. Your mod adds those short descriptions to broken items, and SYG does not. Equipping restrictions work a bit differently too (this however partly depends on settings chosen in SYG). So in short, things kind of work together, but in a messy way.
Looks like Dismembering Framework doesn't conflict, I can cut off the enemies' limbs and still find broken items treated by your mod in their inventory.
What doesn't seem to work for me at all is the size difference feature. I haven't seen even a single item during my play that I couldn't equip due to size differences - I mean only the items that were not affected by the breaking mechanics from both your mod and SYG (breaking of armor excludes size restriction, right?). I could equip these items without issues and there were no size tags at all. I had this feature set to "Hard" in MCM, so I suppose it would happen quite frequently if it worked? Turning SYG off entirely didn't help either.
I guess something is interefering on my end... I don't know, maybe I played too short after all or something? Will try once more, maybe with a different player armor breakage mod?
Another feature that does work and is much appreciated, is the removal of any additional, non-equipped armor / clothing. It definitely helps to bring a bit more challenge to the game.
Thank you for your mod!
The size difference should work. This feature internally is integrated with the breakage system. If one doesn't work, the other shouldn't either. They even share the same keywords, for now.
But wait on the 2.0 update. Maybe I botched something in the 1.0 release.
I even deactivated Service Your Gear and Dismembering Framework, set my weapon skill to high, set everything in your mod to highest chance. Nothing happens - no tags on items and I can equip everything without problems :(
I don't know, maybe there's some mod conflict I can't recognize. I guess I'll pass for now.
Still, the mod idea is really nice, especially the size difference.
Anyway, thank you for your hard work on the mod!
EDIT: Ok, I apologize, need to correct myself - I started new game with this installed (updated version), and looks like things began to work - both breakage and size difference.
I noticed though that the unequipped items aren't removed now. I can see some spare armor pieces on them which I can safely equip. Interestingly, these are the same items that got broken (or set to unfitting). So for example there's a broken Iron Armor, unfitting Iron Gauntlets + unequipped, but unbroken and fitting Iron Armor and Iron Gauntlets. Almost as if your mod duplicated the armor pieces for breaking. In short, there are two sets of the same items: broken / unfitting and unbroken/fitting. I'm guessing a mod conflict again, but this time with this one feature... I don't know. At least I can see the mod finally in action :)
Thank you!
Again? I thought I fixed that. I had an hellish experience trying to solve that and equipping everything correctly.
Can you do a console check on those, see if they belong to my mod? On the reference part they shouldn't have any reference, unlike every other mod.
I'll check it out soon, but I enabled all my mods again and not a few things have broken haha.
[Too Small] Rugged Mask
[Too Small] Rugged MaskHide Armor
[Too Small] Rugged MaskHide ArmorHide Boots
[Slashed] Studded Armor
[Slashed] Studded ArmorHide Bracers
[Slashed] Studded ArmorHide BracersHide Boots
Perhaps scripts going crazy with multiple dead enemies?
That happened before because an armor (like body-armor) could have more than one slot, and thus existed in more that one slot in the index. But gloves only ever exist on one slot...
The double naming feels most likely due to script lag. I think I can fix that by deleting whatever the damaged part of the name contains.
The other one is a mess. I might run the inventory clean up at a later stage.
Thanks for the reports!
The mod itself is really nice in its concept and will definitely add a value to the gameplay, if cleaned from these bugs.
And I think I have an solution for the renaming problem, but the unequipped is still remaining.
I just don't know why some armors keep coming back. According to the logs I generate they get identified and destroyed, and even then the exact same formid remains. And sometimes another set of clothes is there instead.
I think renaming issue, although visually messy, isn't as serious as the duplicating problem, since this one kind of eliminates the whole point of the mod. I wish you good luck in solving this, the mod is certainly worth it.
Overall, looks like a huge improvement, congratulations and thank you!
I think I have an idea for repairing stuff, with the new Courier mod that came out a couple of days ago.
Anything else that can be improved?
Not as much an improvement as an additional feature of sorts: do you think it's possible to make the mod's size difference feature affect NPCs that are already dead in the game? Like those dead bandits you encounter in the first hall of Bleak Falls Barrow etc. This would certainly make the gameplay even more challenging, equpiment-wise. No more happy robbing of corpses that you remember where to find ;)
I'm also not sure if your mod affects NPCs killed by other NPCs? Can't remember if it was the case during testing, so apologies, if it's already there.
I have let the mod affect dead NPCs too, now (not uploaded). And it works by the same code that processes NPCs killed by anyone not you. So no more freebies. Since I don't calculate that, it is currently a 1 in 3 chance something is broken and if not it checks if it is the wrong size.
Mod works definitely better than before, but looks like it still needs some tweaking
Broken armor found on already dead NPCs doesn't seem to work in Bleak Falls Barrow (two guys lying in the first hall). I found a bandit killed by some Vigilants that were on the road though, and he had all armor pieces broken or unfitting, so the feature is doing its job, just not always, it seems (understandable, if there's just a percentage chance for that).
The naming problem seems to be gone for good.
May it be that the NPCs holding the duplicates didn't have any broken or unfitting armor? Because the way the mods works, if it for some reason fails to clone armor it doesn't remove unequipped either.
I have written a script for this, the removal of unequipped armor even though the main script fails. I just have to test it.
Broken armor found on already dead NPCs doesn't seem to work in Bleak Falls Barrow (two guys
lying in the first hall).
That's the unfortunate reality. If you load in to a new area and the NPC, dead or living, spawns right in front of you there's no way for the mod to clone the armor without you seeing it. Same in an inn, shop, etc.
Since I havent had any unequipped armors for a while, but for the exception of un-processed NPCs, can you please confirm if that's the case for you too? If nothing is broken or unfitting feel safe to assume they are un-processed.
In some of these spots the killed bandits had some duplicates - by which I mean that they had both broken / unfitting armor pieces (sometimes full sets) and some additional items (sometimes the same type, sometimes a different one). These cases are much, much less frequent now though. I'd say that in 90% of encounters the mod works properly for me now. I guess I was wrong about 40/60 chance.
Since they had both broken stuff and additional unequipped stuff, I suppose these NPCs were "processed", as you said. In other words, it's the same issue I've been having from the beginning, but ALMOST eliminated by your updates.
NPCs killed by other NPCs seem to work - I visited those spots with Lydia, who defeated many of those bandits. Can't remember though if duplicates were also on HER victims or entirely on mine.
To summarize, the issue is still there for me, but less frequent. No big deal really, at least for me. The mod works nice in most cases :)
Damage is also cool idea, after a fight it's big chance it won't be usable just like that
Oh - I do use Ostim and Obody.
Got it sort of - does not like my female cicero replacer. Still CTD when I try to leave Realm of Lorkhan though.
I do use Obody, but not Ostim or Realm of Lorkhan.
However I've encountered some other bugs. Stuff that wont get cloned, or removed, NPCs that explode into a cloud of their equipment and so on.
And on the Dynamic Persistent Forms comment section it is mentioned some problems with esl flagged files.
I'm working on it and am considering clone the standard Skyrim way.
Second: Perfect! That's the design philosophy of the mod. You should be afraid of breaking the armor the NPC wears.
With that said I want (and have it commented out in the script) the ability to choose damage type for minimizing the risk of breaking certain armor types. Like for example: the NPC has that sexy sexy wizard robe you want. Well, clothes burn easily so don't use fire. Also don't use slashing damage. Use blunt, or even better use unarmed.
Is there any chance that we will have a percentage of looting a not damaged armor like 1%-100% and 1%-100% cannot smelted/recycled ???
So armor breakage mods will come to a big part :)))))))))
It punishes us players/playercharacter not to abuse or rely on recycling materials for crafting armors made of ingots
and maybe
If possible we need to loot at least loot 3 broken iron boots for example to be recycle and become an iron ingot
3 broken iron boots = 1 ingot
4 broken iron gauntlets = 1 ingot
1 broken iron armor =1 ingot
2 broken iron helmet = 1 ingot