It is not entirely clear where the default control keys are hidden, in the SWF file scripts or in the mod scripts? The thing is that the pin set key doesn't work for me if I use the default keys, which I understand is the space bar. Yes, I can re-select keys in the MCM menu, but as you write, their responsiveness will depend on the overload of active scripts. I looked at the scripts of the swf file and found that the key combination is the same as in the mod scripts. And now a funny situation: I changed the key for set the pin in the SWF file to "enter", but I didn't touch anything in the mod's scripts, and as a result both keys started working - space and enter. But now, for the sake of experiment, when I try to re-select keys in the MCM menu, no matter which key I select to set the pin, none of them work. It is not clear why use duplicate keys in the mod script if they are already in the SWF file?
They're different methods of catching the key presses, primarily because I don't know how to make the swf listener work for gamepad. The swf menu should only listen for key presses from the actionscript side if the custom key setting in the MCM is off (or if the mouse controls are enabled, in which case it's used to listen for exit keys iirc). Check line 426 of __LockpickingRedoneManager.psc for the relevant call. The intended behavior of this switch is that key presses will either be caught on the swf side or the script side, but not both. It certainly sounds like something about the key handling is busted for you, but I'm not sure why that would be. Perhaps something weird is going on in the Flash environment?
If you have time, could you double-check whether you get this same behavior with a fresh install of this mod, without your recompiled copy of the swf, and/or on a new savefile? And if you do, it would be very helpful to know what non-default settings you have in the MCM when seeing the problem, so I can try to debug it on my side!
The problem with the default pin set key not working was there from the very beginning, when I hadn't changed anything in the mod yet. Then I didn’t bother and simply re-selected the keys in the MCM menu. In version 1.0.3. the same problem. This happens immediately, with default settings and even if the settings file "*.toml" is missing.
Thanks for letting me know. That's very strange! I just tested it again myself, downloading a fresh copy in case I had made local changes, and space to set pin works without problems for me. I'm wondering now if there could be something about certain keyboards, or something else at that level, that may be causing weird behavior around keypresses. If so it might be possible to add a workaround option to listen for control presses instead of specific keys-- so whatever you press to jump could set the pin, for example, which I think should avoid any issues of key codes being different locally. Not sure if that style would be easily configurable in the MCM unfortunately, but I'll do some thinking.
Also, want to make sure I'm understanding correctly, space for set not being recognized was happening on your side before 1.0.3, right? I added a rate limiter to the set key as well as the push key in this version, but if the issue existed before it shouldn't be related.
The thing is that the default key for set the pin does not work only if it is the same in the mod script and in the SWF file script, and it does not matter whether it is a space or any other key. Maybe there is a conflict with some mod? I have a whole bunch of them, including DLL plugins. I have slightly changed my mind here about using the default keys, I will rather redefine them in the MCM menu. This decision was influenced by "OwlPancakes" comment about the cheating method of hacking. Even though you added a 0.2 sec cooldown, you can still keep the simplest pin up at all times when you fully upgrade your lockpicking by holding down the "push" key. As I understand it, it is impossible to make a key is triggered once when held down, without repeating, through SWF scripts? Just, the redefine keys do not have this problem, the lockpick only jerks 1 time, despite the fact that you hold down "push". I played in this mode for quite a long time, pumping up lockpicking to the maximum and did not notice any problems with the responsiveness of the mod's scripts.
Regular plugins shouldn't be conflicting afaik. However I know basically nothing about how DLL stuff works, so I can't really give a clear answer there unfortunately. Anecdotally, in the past I did observe some weird behavior with Fancy Fishing's menu that seemed to appear consistently on some setups but not others, and I thought I was hitting it less often when I tried with minimal DLL mods, but it's very hard to correctly recognize a pattern with a bug that appears on some but not all game start-ups. Consider it at the level of a rumor, I guess.
Custom keys use SKSE's OnKeyDown, which gives one keypress call when the key is first pressed. Default keys use ActionScript's onKeyDown, which gives one keypress call when the key is first pressed, then near-continuous calls after a delay (which this mod deals with via the cooldown time), like if you press and hold a letter key on a word processor. It's not impossible to respond to one input per keypress for the ActionScript side, it was just a bit quicker to implement this way. When I tested it locally, holding up didn't actually give enough uptime to guarantee fixing the pin, but that might be down to my personal settings (I made the defaults for sweetspot time etc pretty generous). And in any case, as you mention switching on custom controls will make it so a keypress and hold gives only one input, and there shouldn't be any noticeable latency unless you already have a lot of script lag or a very low game FPS.
That's why I'll still use redefined keys. Moreover, I use the "Papyrus Tweaks" plugin, in which I enabled the "bSpeedUpNativeCalls" function, which unbinds scripts from FPS. True, I don't know if this feature affects your mod's scripts though:)))
Ah, that's good to know. I don't use Papyrus Tweaks NG myself, but I have heard that problems with timing-sensitive scripts are possible. Not sure if, in this case, the custom menu invocation and UI.Set/Invoke calls are happening stacked up in the same frame. That feels potentially problematic-- at a glance I'm not sure, but I can tell you I wrote those setup calls with the assumption they wouldn't overlap and saw some weird behavior when testing in the Flash environment before without some delay between them. Perhaps worth seeing if it's possible to exclude the UI functions from the list of functions that are frame-uncoupled, or alternatively add some Utility.Wait(0.001) in the manager script to manually force them to wait until the next frame.
No, I understand that. My concern is that it may affect the interface between Papyrus and ActionScript where the mod launches the custom menu and handles its setup by invoking ActionScript functions from the Papyrus side, causing the timing of such calls to be different.
I forgot to say that with the default keys, exiting the minigame is done via ESC, not via TAB, despite the fact that in the scripts the key code = 9, which corresponds to the TAB key. The lock pick movement keys work fine, you can immediately control them with the arrow keys or WSAD.
Thanks for the info! That matches up with the theory that something weird is going on with how ActionScript is getting keys on your setup, as the escape key actually allows exiting the minigame via the script side (as a safety, no matter what else is set-- the line is RegisterForControl("Pause") in the manager script). With custom keys off the menu should try to listen for tab via ActionScript events, but it sounds like this isn't working just like the space key isn't.
If you hold up (W key) you push the pin in super fast for some reason and it makes it impossible to fail.
In Oblivion original, the way you would determine when to set the pin is based on an audio queue that went along with the slower pin speed that goes off the second it hits the top. as opposed to a *tink!* sound, you'd hear a kinda double *ta-tink!* sound.
In Oblivion Remastered, holding up is super important because the pin's random speed is reset only when the pin actually hits the bottom again. If you press the pin up again before it hits the bottom, the pin maintains its current speed. That means you let it reset until it is a slow speed pin, then hold W to repeatedly push the pin up, which sort of bounces the lock pick up and it makes it way easier to time setting the pin.
I would love to use this mod, but there needs to be a delay when holding W for the mechanic to work properly in either version.
To be honest it didn't occur to me at all as a strategy, it's not really possible with the original mouse controls. So, want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly, the remaster supports keyboard controls for this minigame and holding up means that the current pin will fall all the way before it gets pushed up again?
I'll have to think about whether I want this minigame to follow that behavior or not-- as with my replacement of the old chance for slow movement + sound cues system with a seeded order, this is more of an 'inspired by' than exactly following the Oblivion minigame-- but certainly there ought to be a rate limit for the keyboard input. Thanks for letting me know!
Yea there's keyboard controls now. Holding up makes the lockpick bounce up repeatedly. its not super fast but its not enough time for the pin to fall to the bottom. Here's a timestamped video to show how it works. https://youtu.be/qGNpgJk4Rkc?t=108
In the game, you often come across items with the "lockpicking" enchantment, and if you put on all of these things, then at the very beginning of the game you will already be a master of lockpicking, without even pumping up the main skill to 10. This is why I wanted leveling to be based on perks rather than skill level. But I can edit the script to remove the bonuses from items and wanted to ask if it would be enough to change this line?:
Yes, that's correct. With this change the number of pins dropped will follow only the base Lockpicking skill level. Time windows for pins to be set will however still be affected by Lockpicking perks, enchantments, and potions.
LeucisticDinosaur, could you tell me what to change in the scripts so that the difficulty of picking locks would depend not on the level of the "lockpicking" skill 0, 25, 50, 100; but on the perks taken - Novice, Apprentice, Adept, Master? You once helped me with this, in the old version of "Oblivionesque Lockpicking", but in the "Redone" version, the scripts are rewritten from scratch and I don't know what to change there.
The SWF version is much cooler. In the old version, at the initial level, I could barely pick a lock of the "Adept" level, but on "Redone" you can pick locks of the "Master" level right from the start due to the good responsiveness of the mod.
Increased fps from 60 to 120 for the file "LockpickingToplevel.swf", since my monitor is 144Hz - the minigame became even smoother :) Unfortunately for SWF it is impossible to raise fps to 144 :(
Converted the compact version of the "Oblivionesque Locks Oblivionated" mod to swf, if needed I can upload it, I'm too lazy to publish it myself.
To change the number of pins that drop, you'd need to edit get_skill_fraction() at line 478 of __LockpickingRedoneManager.psc which currently returns a float (Lockpicking skill plus mods / 25.0). However it's not straightforward because the new script does not actually know about or check for any Lockpicking perks at all-- it uses the lockpicking difficulty from the regular menu pop-up instead, to avoid having to patch for perk mods. (In other words although the <x>% bonuses to Lockpicking from those perks will already make it easier to set pins, this won't affect pin drop counts.)
So, that's all to say I can't give you a couple of line changes to make it work as I did before unfortunately. If you are experienced with scripts, though, you could add this functionality by adding and filling properties for the perks in question, checking for whether the player has each one with HasPerk, and then returning that number, 0-4, from the function instead.
This isn't the oblivion lock picking game. in oblivion u have to wait for the pin to latch not just time it, i like it more this way cause the lock can fake u out so u have to watch and listen for the subtle differences between a latch and a fake latch. pls add these as a feature to this mod.
the new minigame works fine and its very nostalgic but when i go to pick a lock the vanilla minigame pops up for a few seconds before the new one does, is there a way to completely get rid of the old minigame so only the new one pops up when i go to pick a lock?
Nah, not as I designed it unfortunately. This mod needs the original minigame to pop up first to grab some info about how difficult the lock should be. If you'd prefer, you can reduce the time it shows up for with a global variable change (for example, set __LockpickingVarMenuDelay to 0.0 iirc).
It would also be possible to make some parts of the vanilla lockpicking interface invisible (though the bottom bar would still pop up). Unfortunately it would also affect the vanilla menu in all cases, which will break things for anyone who still uses the vanilla minigame for locks under a certain level etc, or for abilities like Ordinator's automaton hotwire that can't use the new minigame because of how they're implemented. For those reasons I haven't created an add-on to do this, but if you want to try on your side you'd need to copy a base-game empty mesh like effects/fxemptyobject.nif over each of the four meshes in interface/lockpicking (lockpick01.nif, lockpicklock01.nif, lockpickshiv01.nif, lockpickskeletonkey01.nif). I haven't tested this really at all, though-- there might be side-effects if another mod uses those for anything.
Also this mod's legacy version can skip the vanilla minigame pop-up entirely, but the tradeoff is it can interact strangely with some mods that have you do something upon activating a lock, like Simply Knock and Immersive Interactions, and the minigame is also less responsive.
Sure, it should work, but with some assembly required. (You need to enable 'Custom keys' in the MCM and bind the controls to buttons you have available on your controller.)
72 comments
If you have time, could you double-check whether you get this same behavior with a fresh install of this mod, without your recompiled copy of the swf, and/or on a new savefile? And if you do, it would be very helpful to know what non-default settings you have in the MCM when seeing the problem, so I can try to debug it on my side!
Also, want to make sure I'm understanding correctly, space for set not being recognized was happening on your side before 1.0.3, right? I added a rate limiter to the set key as well as the push key in this version, but if the issue existed before it shouldn't be related.
Custom keys use SKSE's OnKeyDown, which gives one keypress call when the key is first pressed. Default keys use ActionScript's onKeyDown, which gives one keypress call when the key is first pressed, then near-continuous calls after a delay (which this mod deals with via the cooldown time), like if you press and hold a letter key on a word processor. It's not impossible to respond to one input per keypress for the ActionScript side, it was just a bit quicker to implement this way. When I tested it locally, holding up didn't actually give enough uptime to guarantee fixing the pin, but that might be down to my personal settings (I made the defaults for sweetspot time etc pretty generous). And in any case, as you mention switching on custom controls will make it so a keypress and hold gives only one input, and there shouldn't be any noticeable latency unless you already have a lot of script lag or a very low game FPS.
In Oblivion original, the way you would determine when to set the pin is based on an audio queue that went along with the slower pin speed that goes off the second it hits the top. as opposed to a *tink!* sound, you'd hear a kinda double *ta-tink!* sound.
In Oblivion Remastered, holding up is super important because the pin's random speed is reset only when the pin actually hits the bottom again. If you press the pin up again before it hits the bottom, the pin maintains its current speed. That means you let it reset until it is a slow speed pin, then hold W to repeatedly push the pin up, which sort of bounces the lock pick up and it makes it way easier to time setting the pin.
I would love to use this mod, but there needs to be a delay when holding W for the mechanic to work properly in either version.
I'll have to think about whether I want this minigame to follow that behavior or not-- as with my replacement of the old chance for slow movement + sound cues system with a seeded order, this is more of an 'inspired by' than exactly following the Oblivion minigame-- but certainly there ought to be a rate limit for the keyboard input. Thanks for letting me know!
Here's a timestamped video to show how it works.
https://youtu.be/qGNpgJk4Rkc?t=108
float skill_total = (skill_val + skill_mod + skill_pow)
and do this:
float skill_total = skill_val
You once helped me with this, in the old version of "Oblivionesque Lockpicking", but in the "Redone" version, the scripts are rewritten from scratch and I don't know what to change there.
The SWF version is much cooler. In the old version, at the initial level, I could barely pick a lock of the "Adept" level, but on "Redone" you can pick locks of the "Master" level right from the start due to the good responsiveness of the mod.
Increased fps from 60 to 120 for the file "LockpickingToplevel.swf", since my monitor is 144Hz - the minigame became even smoother :)
Unfortunately for SWF it is impossible to raise fps to 144 :(
Converted the compact version of the "Oblivionesque Locks Oblivionated" mod to swf, if needed I can upload it, I'm too lazy to publish it myself.
To change the number of pins that drop, you'd need to edit get_skill_fraction() at line 478 of __LockpickingRedoneManager.psc which currently returns a float (Lockpicking skill plus mods / 25.0). However it's not straightforward because the new script does not actually know about or check for any Lockpicking perks at all-- it uses the lockpicking difficulty from the regular menu pop-up instead, to avoid having to patch for perk mods. (In other words although the <x>% bonuses to Lockpicking from those perks will already make it easier to set pins, this won't affect pin drop counts.)
So, that's all to say I can't give you a couple of line changes to make it work as I did before unfortunately. If you are experienced with scripts, though, you could add this functionality by adding and filling properties for the perks in question, checking for whether the player has each one with HasPerk, and then returning that number, 0-4, from the function instead.
But thanks for the advice anyway!
It would also be possible to make some parts of the vanilla lockpicking interface invisible (though the bottom bar would still pop up). Unfortunately it would also affect the vanilla menu in all cases, which will break things for anyone who still uses the vanilla minigame for locks under a certain level etc, or for abilities like Ordinator's automaton hotwire that can't use the new minigame because of how they're implemented. For those reasons I haven't created an add-on to do this, but if you want to try on your side you'd need to copy a base-game empty mesh like effects/fxemptyobject.nif over each of the four meshes in interface/lockpicking (lockpick01.nif, lockpicklock01.nif, lockpickshiv01.nif, lockpickskeletonkey01.nif). I haven't tested this really at all, though-- there might be side-effects if another mod uses those for anything.
Also this mod's legacy version can skip the vanilla minigame pop-up entirely, but the tradeoff is it can interact strangely with some mods that have you do something upon activating a lock, like Simply Knock and Immersive Interactions, and the minigame is also less responsive.