if i were to have done it, i would have made any major effects applied to all races in each superclass of races beastfolk, men and mer. so all mer are better at magic, all men are better at fighting, with very small deviations between the types of men and mer. and major differences to the beastfolk since a reptile person isnt anything like a cat person. I do like the idea that orcs can't regenerate magicka though
Breton's 9/10 bit physically weaker than they should
Imperial 5/10 not very accurate at all there weaker in almost every way than should be being remarked for there magic talent in almost every thing they get mentioned in
High elves 4/10 the only thing right about them is the magic affinity
You do indeed have some interesting input in both of your posts. I would however like to point out that Imperials are vastly more efficient with magic than Nords and Redguards in this mod. Don't look too much at the base stats – as pointed out, those will almost immediately become irrelevant. But observe how much the magicka regeneration differs between for example Nords and Imperials.
Red guards are the most naturally talented combatants with a climent even more dangerous than Skyrim they also created most of the martial arts in tamiel long post but it's mostly saying they should have the 3nd highest unarmed damage after khajit and orcs they were created by there god as a warrior race after all
Carrying 100 pounds is an unrealistic carry weight a modern officers police belt alone is most often around the 120 pound mark you made the mistake of acting as if they were carrying gear in there hands and arms Alone instead of in bags and sacks across their person.
Under 260 for an decently physically fit person who's only 5'4 unlikely that's not even accounting for most Elder Scrolls human races being over 6,3 with just females on average its hard tell in game in first person but nords are absolutely massive towering over even moose and black bears the oblivion black bears who were modeled to scale(not cave bears cave bears are much bigger than black bears)
That 300 is very much an understatement for there size mass culture and lifestyles
the problem with Skyrims weight system is mass of what there carrying is impossible simply impossible where's those 17 great swords being kept if I might ask Mr.shopkeeper in a tent ???
Just gonna bring up high elf one again they are physically the weaker than humans in every way they also have trouble with agility and nimbleness due there size not only do they heal slowly due there bodies physical weakness they also are vulnerable to magic to an massive extent heck in oblivion they took double magic well they did in all the games before Skyrim
The physical weakness is the literal reason they rely on magic and call humans beasts and why nords the strongest human race physically say magic is for the weak along with orcs the strongest mer race Also doesn't respect magic at all for warriors
Not only is that health wrong it should be the lowest of any race they can't endure damage of and kind lack physical endurance compared to any other race
There also physically weaker to humans in to an Extreme extent even Breton's who haven't bread with elves In dozens of Generation are known for there frailty compared to any other race of men but on the contrary are known to be far physically superior to mer
Altmer also kept a small breeding pool to make sure they didn't change from there Aldmer appearance meaning unlike men they didn't evolve almost at all along with there low fertility and long life spans make these ongoing issues
Put simply they designed to be the physically weak fantasy mage class that isn't good at anything and unlike most series even lose to other magic
Kind of the worst written race with almost universal 2D cartoon bad guy type of characters there either a evil wizard who just screams look at me I'm evil(arcano the thalmor more than 80%, of high elves in Skyrim with like the 8 who are just towns people 3of these town people are also evil) an good wizard or dead
And there still hasn't been high elf followers in the entire franchise
I just remembered a good video about subject of weight the of armor which could give you a bit of a better understanding of https://youtu.be/rO2nM_2iBXA
In my personal opinion, realism has (with some exceptions) much higher priority than lore.
When it comes to the humans, I acknowledge that Skyrim basically is a fantasy version of old Scandinavia, and the vast majority of normal Nords should be nothing more than just average people – not big and strong as bears. That would just be unrealistic and odd. The same applies to the rest of the human races, although lore can be allowed to play a small part in order to fill in some nuances. But all in all, playing as a human should give nothing more to start with than just a normal guy. What happens next should be up to the player to shape and build.
When it comes to the elves, I believe that if we are really honest to ourselves, we don't actually want Skyrim. We want Lord of the Rings. Skyrim is popular simply because it's a sandbox that allows us to live out what we would have waned to see in LOtR. When you first start the game, enter the character creation, and read "high elf", you aren't looking to become some sort of weak, slow mage. You want to be Legolas. I am open to the possibility of being wrong about this assumption, but for now, I choose to believe that it applies for the vast majority of players, especially if they haven't played Morrowind or Oblivion before Skyrim.
That video you linked (as well as the guy and the rest of his channel) was an interesting watch indeed. However, I am not entirely sure how relevant it is in regards to the topic of races? It feels more relevant in terms of an armour mod.
You made races unrealisticly weak was the point of linking the video. Skyrim isn't lotr this mod is mostly a blanket Nerf to humans making them weaker than real life. Why name it sky race if your just going to ignore basing anything on the elder scrolls entirely if you don't like the idea of it . the elder scrolls has its own book series as well and over 20 years of established publishing. It's fine make a classic fantasy race rebalancer but be honest about it upfront other wise your wasting the time of a community of dedicated elder scrolls fans. It's like those skyteen nord elf mods that pretend to lore friendly which are near completely fan fiction
I'll admit I'm no true role player I'm someone who values authenticity and constituency more than anything else. I value creative liberties very little and cringe easily at what I view as failed attempts be original if it contradicts what's already firmly established unless it's something that's clearly breaking from the actual lore like Vigilant proudly holding it's non lore friendly flag but being such a well put together piece of work that I can't help but admire it.
Also I think your misunderstanding the majority of the elder scrolls player base with it being some of the most conservative absolutely unwilling to leave lore stones in human clothes y'all ever see.
It's the reason word imersive is used more than hello as a greeting here.
About that high elf comment I completely expected them to be a weak robe using race and wood elves to be archers that tropes been around years
That one race who'd better than everyone because "elves" isn't good writing it's lazy designfollowed by an overly complicated excuse to make it seem clever be it because forest spirits , gods, magic , or the ever so popular reason ancient elves were basically god's
I don't fully agree with what you're saying about humans being weaker here than in real life.
As I have stated several times now, I am not looking to make it like some sort of action movie or epic fantasy drama where people are in ideal physical and mental shape. The world and environments should feel dirty, harsh and realistic, just like a true survival game.
Can you run around unhindered while carrying 300 pounds of equipment, jump down roofs unharmed, cast spells with your bare hands, and use reality-bending dragon shouts? A human in real life can't, and nor should one in Skyrim. Everything has not yet been completed, but it's a goal.
As I've also stated at many occasions, I really love how those mystical elements do exist in that world, like magic and elves – but I want them to feel really special and astonishing, not something you can see and use without lots of effort. In an ideal Skyrim, encountering a spellcaster should be something you'd remember as a shocking moment of your time playing the game.
When it comes to the whole aspect of lore, I admit that I'm not an expert in that area. If enough people would argue that LOTR is not why they like Skyrim, then I might be willing to change that belief, but regardless, the lore is far less important than achieving more realism and making Skyrim a survival game.
I do wish to be as reasonable as possible. What would you say if I made something along with this?
All races have much slower health and magicka regeneration, but still proportional to each other
Orcs have NO magicka regeneration
All races except from Bretons and High Elves start with almost no magicka
Bretons and High Elves still start with much less magicka than in the vanilla game, but still have much more than other races
Agile races have fast stamina regeneration whilst bulky ones have slow stamina regeneration
Elves have less health, carry weight and unarmed damage
The magical racial abilities are removed from humans
If possible, only High Elves and Bretons have starting spells
Again, if a race tends to be skilled at something, it doesn't mean that it's an inherited trait that every member possesses. If for example Imperials tend to be good mages, it doesn't mean that all Imperials are. It only means that their race generally is more suited for learning it and that they are culturally encouraged to do so.
By making elves fantastical you have made them nothing its what you expect its like making zombie eat people in a move expect nothing more nothing less challenging expectations is what makes a work of fiction great. With that lord of the rings comparison in mind ill tell you lord of the rings was remembered being original an unexpected that made it great it may have been made generic with time but it wasn't near so when i came out. theirs so much to work with that could have made this mod so original is what really bothered me it really does just feel really similar to what been made so many times. At the moment the elder scrolls has so much to work with but no one really seems interested in exploring it to its fullest or to subvert expectations. But ill finally give that feed back i should given all those months ago the mods well made but id say if this is realism id rather just use vanilla because this mod feel down the pit obscurity and being too interesting with how its designed its mostly just cripples certain play styles more than really add much of anything. It was great idea but the execution i feel could have been done better
The swimming here and in Skyswim need to be modified - not realistic.
1) Light Armor (this includes naked) - Technically naked people have "leather" (see "Silence of the Lambs" movie). Animals like wolves, elk, horses, seals, porpoises, whales and hippos are formally "leather". Leather repels water. That is why bikers and cowboys wear leather jackets, vests, pants, boots and hats. It does not get heavier in water. Try it - put some on and swim in a pool. It will just slow you down a little bit and you will be "dry" when you come out of the water.
My character, wearing Dryad clothes (10 pieces < 10 lbs) made of leaves ("leather") and leather straps, suddenly gained 500 lbs in a stream! The impact of leather on a character should be +5% - +10% at most - not even worth modding. This is the reason I got rid of the mod.
Cloth Armor (mages) would get heavier because it is cotton, like a towel, but... in water, it would depend on looseness. If you wear a t-shirt, jeans and socks, you can clearly swim in a pool. If you wear a long dress, robe or cape, the drag would be more but you could still swim. You only are heavy for the first 5-15 minutes when you get OUT of the water. As the water drains away, you get lighter. So running immediately getting out of water might be impacted but not that much swimming (+50% max).
2) Heavy Armor - virtually any will make you sink. This is why scuba divers wear several pounds of lead weights to neutralize buoyancy in water. If you have like 10+ pounds, you will sink. You can still walk (1/2 sneak speed) on the bottom (and possibly drown). Heavy Armored characters really need to use a bridge or shallows to cross. You would need an item/potion/spell to "Breath under Water" to move without taking off armor.
3) Miscellaneous a) ALL characters swimming MUST not be in attack mode. You need BOTH arms free to swim. b) The only exception would be to use a dagger in one hand but you probably could only turn and attack - not swim. c) Skyrim needs a potion/spell that allows you to "Walk on Water" (like Daggerfall and Morrowind - I believe) to alleviate taking off armor. You would be able to move across water as easily as on land. You would not be able to fight anything under water and vis-versa. d) Arguably the biggest problem with swimming and realism, is inventory. Even if you take all your Heavy Armor off, you are still carrying it in your backpack/inventory. In fact, as mentioned above, any more that ~10 lbs would make you sink. Nope, you can't carry half a dozen warhammers in your backpack and still swim (or run) unless you had a spell or magic backpack that made things weightless. Looking at inventory weight and swimming would break the game.
This MOD ignores imperials being the greatest human race at magic (not counting bretons) as stated in every game thus far and there superior ability to learn compared to other men at a genetic level not having arcane affinity dispite heavy contrary evidence is this mod makes little sense and them being the authors of nearly every enchanting book in the series
high elves have directly been called out on there weak frames and bones and weak physical skills being much weaker than any race of men but making up for it with there magical prowess
There even also compared to Breton's who's are stated to stronger than altmer . The high elves shouldn't have an unarmed bonus even close to Breton's much less imperials who's well known to be stronger than elves and beast races but weaker than there Nord cousins with the colvian imperials being almost as large the nords themselves
Nords are larger than altmer and not as much shorter as you might imagine being nearly as large as a cave bears at times due to them having hereditary gigantism not only has this been stated but even the giants in are a race of evolved nords who lost that's intelligence at some point .while generally not shown well in game (except eso ) there the largest playable race in the series
Don't bother calling it "realistic" when it's a fantasy world where literally anyone can use magic, even in the series' olden days of less uniformity and more specialized races. What you're taking umbrage with here is game design, not realism. You should remove all forms of magic and all non-human races from the game if you want realism.
Also, look up the definition of "species." The races of men and mer (but not the beastfolk,) are "literally" the same species by a realistic biological standard. All men and mer can interbreed freely and produce fertile offspring who can produce fertile offspring, ad infinitum; that is, they are the same species by realistic biological standards.
I am not talking about making the game feel realistic as in what does exist in real life. But just as Joshua stated above, something like magic is lore-wise a lot less common than what's seen in the game.
I would love seeing the game more similar to the live action trailer. As I've stated before, I really do like how things like magic and elves exist in that game world – but I want it to feel like something really special and memorable, not something you see once every minute.
Before I jump into a race mod like this, I want a clear picture of the changes. Can you provide a listing of all the statistics for the races as they line up now?
58 comments
what am i doing wrong pal ?
Breton's 9/10 bit physically weaker than they should
Imperial 5/10 not very accurate at all there weaker in almost every way than should be being remarked for there magic talent in almost every thing they get mentioned in
High elves 4/10 the only thing right about them is the magic affinity
Carrying 100 pounds is an unrealistic carry weight a modern officers police belt alone is most often around the 120 pound mark you made the mistake of acting as if they were carrying gear in there hands and arms Alone instead of in bags and sacks across their person.
Under 260 for an decently physically fit person who's only 5'4 unlikely that's not even accounting for most Elder Scrolls human races being over 6,3 with just females on average its hard tell in game in first person but nords are absolutely massive towering over even moose and black bears the oblivion black bears who were modeled to scale(not cave bears cave bears are much bigger than black bears)
That 300 is very much an understatement for there size mass culture and lifestyles
the problem with Skyrims weight system is mass of what there carrying is impossible simply impossible where's those 17 great swords being kept if I might ask Mr.shopkeeper in a tent ???
In my pocket of course !
The physical weakness is the literal reason they rely on magic and call humans beasts and why nords the strongest human race physically say magic is for the weak along with orcs the strongest mer race Also doesn't respect magic at all for warriors
Not only is that health wrong it should be the lowest of any race they can't endure damage of and kind lack physical endurance compared to any other race
There also physically weaker to humans in to an Extreme extent even Breton's who haven't bread with elves In dozens of Generation are known for there frailty compared to any other race of men but on the contrary are known to be far physically superior to mer
Altmer also kept a small breeding pool to make sure they didn't change from there Aldmer appearance meaning unlike men they didn't evolve almost at all along with there low fertility and long life spans make these ongoing issues
Put simply they designed to be the physically weak fantasy mage class that isn't good at anything and unlike most series even lose to other magic
Kind of the worst written race with almost universal 2D cartoon bad guy type of characters there either a evil wizard who just screams look at me I'm evil(arcano the thalmor more than 80%, of high elves in Skyrim with like the 8 who are just towns people 3of these town people are also evil) an good wizard or dead
And there still hasn't been high elf followers in the entire franchise
When it comes to the humans, I acknowledge that Skyrim basically is a fantasy version of old Scandinavia, and the vast majority of normal Nords should be nothing more than just average people – not big and strong as bears. That would just be unrealistic and odd. The same applies to the rest of the human races, although lore can be allowed to play a small part in order to fill in some nuances. But all in all, playing as a human should give nothing more to start with than just a normal guy. What happens next should be up to the player to shape and build.
When it comes to the elves, I believe that if we are really honest to ourselves, we don't actually want Skyrim. We want Lord of the Rings. Skyrim is popular simply because it's a sandbox that allows us to live out what we would have waned to see in LOtR. When you first start the game, enter the character creation, and read "high elf", you aren't looking to become some sort of weak, slow mage. You want to be Legolas. I am open to the possibility of being wrong about this assumption, but for now, I choose to believe that it applies for the vast majority of players, especially if they haven't played Morrowind or Oblivion before Skyrim.
That video you linked (as well as the guy and the rest of his channel) was an interesting watch indeed. However, I am not entirely sure how relevant it is in regards to the topic of races? It feels more relevant in terms of an armour mod.
Also I think your misunderstanding the majority of the elder scrolls player base with it being some of the most conservative absolutely unwilling to leave lore stones in human clothes y'all ever see.
It's the reason word imersive is used more than hello as a greeting here.
That one race who'd better than everyone because "elves" isn't good writing it's lazy designfollowed by an overly complicated excuse to make it seem clever be it because forest spirits , gods, magic , or the ever so popular reason ancient elves were basically god's
As I have stated several times now, I am not looking to make it like some sort of action movie or epic fantasy drama where people are in ideal physical and mental shape. The world and environments should feel dirty, harsh and realistic, just like a true survival game.
Can you run around unhindered while carrying 300 pounds of equipment, jump down roofs unharmed, cast spells with your bare hands, and use reality-bending dragon shouts? A human in real life can't, and nor should one in Skyrim. Everything has not yet been completed, but it's a goal.
As I've also stated at many occasions, I really love how those mystical elements do exist in that world, like magic and elves – but I want them to feel really special and astonishing, not something you can see and use without lots of effort. In an ideal Skyrim, encountering a spellcaster should be something you'd remember as a shocking moment of your time playing the game.
When it comes to the whole aspect of lore, I admit that I'm not an expert in that area. If enough people would argue that LOTR is not why they like Skyrim, then I might be willing to change that belief, but regardless, the lore is far less important than achieving more realism and making Skyrim a survival game.
Anothering thing is I'll take up on that bet and come back in a week with a vote
Again, if a race tends to be skilled at something, it doesn't mean that it's an inherited trait that every member possesses. If for example Imperials tend to be good mages, it doesn't mean that all Imperials are. It only means that their race generally is more suited for learning it and that they are culturally encouraged to do so.
MIDDLE opposite of RIM
sky rim = middle earth?
1) Light Armor (this includes naked) - Technically naked people have "leather" (see "Silence of the Lambs" movie). Animals like wolves, elk, horses, seals, porpoises, whales and hippos are formally "leather". Leather repels water. That is why bikers and cowboys wear leather jackets, vests, pants, boots and hats. It does not get heavier in water. Try it - put some on and swim in a pool. It will just slow you down a little bit and you will be "dry" when you come out of the water.
My character, wearing Dryad clothes (10 pieces < 10 lbs) made of leaves ("leather") and leather straps, suddenly gained 500 lbs in a stream! The impact of leather on a character should be +5% - +10% at most - not even worth modding. This is the reason I got rid of the mod.
Cloth Armor (mages) would get heavier because it is cotton, like a towel, but... in water, it would depend on looseness. If you wear a t-shirt, jeans and socks, you can clearly swim in a pool. If you wear a long dress, robe or cape, the drag would be more but you could still swim. You only are heavy for the first 5-15 minutes when you get OUT of the water. As the water drains away, you get lighter. So running immediately getting out of water might be impacted but not that much swimming (+50% max).
2) Heavy Armor - virtually any will make you sink. This is why scuba divers wear several pounds of lead weights to neutralize buoyancy in water. If you have like 10+ pounds, you will sink. You can still walk (1/2 sneak speed) on the bottom (and possibly drown). Heavy Armored characters really need to use a bridge or shallows to cross. You would need an item/potion/spell to "Breath under Water" to move without taking off armor.
3) Miscellaneous
a) ALL characters swimming MUST not be in attack mode. You need BOTH arms free to swim.
b) The only exception would be to use a dagger in one hand but you probably could only turn and attack - not swim.
c) Skyrim needs a potion/spell that allows you to "Walk on Water" (like Daggerfall and Morrowind - I believe) to alleviate taking off armor. You would be able to move across water as easily as on land. You would not be able to fight anything under water and vis-versa.
d) Arguably the biggest problem with swimming and realism, is inventory. Even if you take all your Heavy Armor off, you are still carrying it in your backpack/inventory. In fact, as mentioned above, any more that ~10 lbs would make you sink. Nope, you can't carry half a dozen warhammers in your backpack and still swim (or run) unless you had a spell or magic backpack that made things weightless. Looking at inventory weight and swimming would break the game.
If i Mounted Combat i can not hit the enemy with the swords.
If i deactivate the mod i can hit the enemy
edit:
this helps but it reset the carry weight
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/56828/?tab=description
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkWDN9-urVg
can one install that in the mod?
high elves have directly been called out on there weak frames and bones and weak physical skills being much weaker than any race of men but making up for it with there magical prowess
There even also compared to Breton's who's are stated to stronger than altmer . The high elves shouldn't have an unarmed bonus even close to Breton's much less imperials who's well known to be stronger than elves and beast races but weaker than there Nord cousins with the colvian imperials being almost as large the nords themselves
Nords are larger than altmer and not as much shorter as you might imagine being nearly as large as a cave bears at times due to them having hereditary gigantism not only has this been stated but even the giants in are a race of evolved nords who lost that's intelligence at some point .while generally not shown well in game (except eso ) there the largest playable race in the series
Also, look up the definition of "species." The races of men and mer (but not the beastfolk,) are "literally" the same species by a realistic biological standard. All men and mer can interbreed freely and produce fertile offspring who can produce fertile offspring, ad infinitum; that is, they are the same species by realistic biological standards.
I would love seeing the game more similar to the live action trailer. As I've stated before, I really do like how things like magic and elves exist in that game world – but I want it to feel like something really special and memorable, not something you see once every minute.
Base health: 90
Base stamina: 110
Base magicka: 50
Health regeneration: 1.7
Stamina regeneration: 5.0
Magicka regeneration: 1.0
Unarmed damage: 10
Base carry weight: 100
Height male: 1.0300
Height female: 1.0300
Redguard
Base health: 80
Base stamina: 150
Base magicka: 50
Health regeneration: 1.2
Stamina regeneration: 9.0
Magicka regeneration: 1.0
Unarmed damage: 4
Base carry weight: 80
Height male: 1.0050
Height female: 1.0000
Imperial
Base health: 80
Base stamina: 120
Base magicka: 50
Health regeneration: 0.7
Stamina regeneration: 5.0
Magicka regeneration: 3.0
Unarmed damage: 6
Base carry weight: 90
Height male: 1.0000
Height female: 1.0000
Breton
Base health: 70
Base stamina: 100
Base magicka: 100
Health regeneration: 0.7
Stamina regeneration: 3.0
Magicka regeneration: 4.0
Unarmed damage: 4
Base carry weight: 70
Height male: 1.0000
Height female: 0.9500
High Elf
Base health: 90
Base stamina: 135
Base magicka: 150 (+50)
Health regeneration: 1.5
Stamina regeneration: 5.0
Magicka regeneration: 5.0
Unarmed damage: 7
Base carry weight: 150
Height male: 1.0400
Height female: 1.0300
Wood Elf
Base health: 70
Base stamina: 150
Base magicka: 70
Health regeneration: 0.7
Stamina regeneration: 7.0
Magicka regeneration: 3.0
Unarmed damage: 4
Base carry weight: 80
Height male: 1.0000
Height female: 1.0000
Dark Elf
Base health: 80
Base stamina: 120
Base magicka: 110
Health regeneration: 0.7
Stamina regeneration: 5.0
Magicka regeneration: 3.0
Unarmed damage: 5
Base carry weight: 80
Height male: 1.0000
Height female: 1.0000
Orc
Base health: 170
Base stamina: 120
Base magicka: 50
Health regeneration: 2.0
Stamina regeneration: 7.0
Magicka regeneration: 0.0
Unarmed damage: 20
Base carry weight: 200
Height male: 1.0750
Height female: 1.0450
Khajiit
Base health: 70
Base stamina: 150
Base magicka: 100
Health regeneration: 0.7
Stamina regeneration: 6.0
Magicka regeneration: 3.0
Unarmed damage: 10 (+12)
Base carry weight: 80
Height male: 1.0000
Height female: 0.9500
Argonian
Base health: 100
Base stamina: 100
Base magicka: 50
Health regeneration: 1.0
Stamina regeneration: 5.0
Magicka regeneration: 2.0
Unarmed damage: 10
Base carry weight: 100
Height male: 1.0100
Height female: 1.0000
Standard without the mod
Base health: 100
Base stamina: 100
Base magicka: 100
Health regeneration: 0.7
Stamina regeneration: 5.0
Magicka regeneration: 3.0
Unarmed damage: 4
Base carry weight: 300
Height male: 1.0000
Height female: 1.0000