Really digging this mod so far. The vanilla classes felt somewhat half baked, with some class specific skills not feeling entirely natural to the classes in question (which, to be fair, could be helped with choosing a second class where such skills arguable worked better). This mod fixes that, with some new skills that seem even more useful than the vanilla ones (e.g. gunslinger, kill'n'run, etc), while "Background matters" and "not created equally" adds much welcome variety and personality to each soldier. Bravo!
A heads-up, in case others encounter the same issue: on my initial attempt, the game froze after the final kill of the first mission. Turns out it was a "Spill XP" mod I had installed, so after removing that this mod worked splendidly.
I just finished a new jericho haven assault against the forsaken. I got an error message from better classes that i should look into the log. The message recomended i don't continue the playthrough. I had to close the game through the windows taskmanager. The menu in the geoscape didn't load anymore. The errormessage in the log is:
[BetterClassesMain @ 21.08.2022 19:34:06] EXCEPTION: Message: Object reference not set to an instance of an object<br/> StackTrace: at PhoenixRising.BetterClasses.PersonalSpecModification+GenerateUnit_Patches.Prefix (PhoenixPoint.Tactical.Entities.TacCharacterDef template) [0x00000] in <52278fb0957c44a799e68ce4e94752a9>:0
Sorry for the late reply, we're pretty busy migrating this mod to the Steam Workshop right now, so I haven't checked in here for a while.
Do you use any other mod that changes something on classes, for instance Assortet Adjustmens or Select Class Traits? If so then I advice you to deactivate anything that touches classes and skills in AA and/or any other mod.
Another problem could be that you maybe have mind controlled an Enemy and this sometimes trigger them to join you as a recruit (it is a vanilla bug). But enemy templates like the Forsaken are not set up to hold a personal spec skill line where many of our skills are attached to (the 3rd row or personal perk line).
If I can find the time, I'll make sure the game doesn't crash when this error occurs, but I can't say how long that will take.
I've been wating for the new update to try this mod and start anew. I'm using Modinx 3 beta 3, followed instructions, enabled in Modinx, launched game through Modinx. When I load in nobody has that 3rd row of abilities, Heavy still has Warcry, etc. Anything I'm doing wrong or is it not currently compatible with the new update?
Steam version btw
EDIT: Nevermind I got it working. Looking forward to trying this out!
It can't because the class skill settings are tied to characters once they are created (spawn in the game as starting soldiers or recruits in havens / PX roster). Technically you can use it with a saved campaign and it should not crash or hang. Then any new spawned character will get the new skill sets, but I assume that is not really what you want ...
can you please change rage burst to it's original form but nerf from there. i havnt be able to found a situation to use the ability in almost any situation, the idea of use to clear a cluster of target i simply never encounter. you can limit the orginal rage bust shot, heavy weapon to 2 shot rifle size to 4 shot, so far this ability is useless in almost any situation.
apart from this single ability i found the most of the mod is ok, i hope there will be a armor mutation augmentation balance, am using jason progression mod that covered weapon part, but that mutation heavy leg +12 acc is way too much for any character to pass, it need a work around whether to buff sth or nerf it, personally i prefer buff, since that can open more opportunity, for example a armor set for infiltrator+heavy class.
We see old RB as very imbalanced skill so there is no way this is happening, if you're thinking of lowering initial burst to 2 or 3 that would be too similar to Aimed Burst skill of Assault so thats also a no. Rage Burst can very effectively be used now against large targets such as Acherons, Chirons, Skyllas as well as groups of enemies due to buff in accuracy. In fact you can find a video showcasing its use vs group of enemies in "Video" section.
That said, if you want to use old RB you can try some of the other mods or you can join our discord server and ask around - probably some people there might help you out
As for progression for Armor etc there are no such plans
If you are talking about the Original OP rage burst without the cone try adding this for the lvl 7 heavy skill RageBurst_ShootAbilityDef. it should work assuming its in the definition map of the config
EDIT:
It is indeed defined in the mod "RAGE BURST+": "RageBurst_ShootAbilityDef", so put "RAGE BURST+" in the lvl 7 slot or RageBurst_ShootAbilityDef
I think you overbuffed snipers by a lot :1AP for two shots with 3AP weapons with overtuned PP overwatch accuracy buff feels ridiculous as even berserkers with adrenaline rush and rapid clearance just cant keep up with the damage and they have expose themselves unlike snipers which can do it from other part of the map. Snipers are even more deadly then they were in vanilla with this mod, whats the point of nerfing melee/shotguns and berserkes/assaults only to buff snipers even further?
Right now payoff for risking your soldiers in melee does not exist, heck even heavies are better off multiclassing to snipers to abuse overwatch with 3AP weapons rather than playing as they supposed to. Honestly this is partly a vanilla issue where melee/CQC relied mostly on OP abilities rather weapons but nerfing these abilties AND buffing snipers even further is not the way to go.
Overall I think this mod is far more balanced and sensible than vanilla but it clearly has it's own issues
Thanks for this great mod! I've just finished a complete play through using this mod and all the DLCs. Here are my thoughts:
1. Sniper - I love the overwatch changes. There's now a way to deal with umbras rather than just running away or hoping for the best. Also the armor break is now in the right place and it made sense to move quick aim to the assault class. The triple pistol shot is good too, especially with the one AP Nergal's Wrath.
2. Berserker - also great. This was a lot of fun to play. It's good that you can't do the full on terminator run now but with dash and free pistol shots you can still be very effective. I liked the adrenaline skill change overall - it was good to have a reason to use one handed weapons again.
3. Technician - this was mostly a good class (technicians were also good in vanilla). However, remote deployment is so essential that it no longer makes sense for me to play technician as a second class and not get that skill. I didn't get a lot of use out of amplify because my technicians weren't dealing special damage types and the healing was adequate already. Also AR targetting usually seemed like a wasted action for only 20% accuracy on one ally - perhaps if it were all allies or 50% accuracy?
4. Priest - This class mostly felt the same. It's nice to get the resurrect faction skill which allowed the priest to build a team of arthrons to send in as an additional tactical option. Lay waste appears to have a bug. The only time I used it I got messages about errors on the next turn and then the game hung during the AI turn.
5. Heavy - return fire makes sense, also shred resistance. The 2 AP jump is good. I found I had to combine heavy with assault to get quick aim if using heavy weapons otherwise moving a decent distance with jump and taking action was still a problem. Rage burst is better now but still weird. It's still hard to see whether it's aimed correctly and sometimes everything just misses, but I understand that problem is in vanilla. I'm not blown away by the late game heavy weapon selection and the accuracy problems with those weapons mean you have to go right up to enemies where you are vulnerable to triton snipers etc, so I mostly used heavies as artillery units which meant that the return fire, shred resistance, etc weren't really of use to me. I think more needs to be done to bring heavies to the front line but I suspect that better weapons would be the key or maybe some kind of aegis aura that adds temporary armor to other units within a certain range from the heavy?
6. Assault - I love the quick aim especially with the shard gun. Kill and run is good. Assault rifle aimed burst is nice except that late game assault rifles suck so I stuck to shot guns. With better assault rifles I think this class would really shine.
7. Infiltrator - this class was fine but seemed less versatile than other classes. They make good scouts although detection (from vanilla) is still very strange... 100% stealthed units that are not spotted, haven't fired and have made no sounds other than walking are still suddenly fired upon from some distance which makes them a bit of a liability but the sneak and surprise damage is good when you can use it.
A note about background skills: I think they would be better filtered a bit to make more sense for each class (I did this myself in the config file). For example it makes no sense for technicians that need to carry multiple turrets to get -4 str or priests to get WP penalties.
Overall I think the classes with the changes I liked best were the sniper combos and berserker/priests.
Thanks again! I think the changes are a significant improvement over vanilla.
Thx for the feedback and really happy you've enjoyed your time with our mod. There is more to come for Better Classes in the next big update and also we've got another mod in the works that will shake your experience with PP even more!
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Make it a separate file if possible
A heads-up, in case others encounter the same issue: on my initial attempt, the game froze after the final kill of the first mission. Turns out it was a "Spill XP" mod I had installed, so after removing that this mod worked splendidly.
I run on the same obstacle and was curios if is "Spill XP"
The errormessage in the log is:
[BetterClassesMain @ 21.08.2022 19:34:06] EXCEPTION:
Message: Object reference not set to an instance of an object<br/>
StackTrace: at PhoenixRising.BetterClasses.PersonalSpecModification+GenerateUnit_Patches.Prefix (PhoenixPoint.Tactical.Entities.TacCharacterDef template) [0x00000] in <52278fb0957c44a799e68ce4e94752a9>:0
Do you use any other mod that changes something on classes, for instance Assortet Adjustmens or Select Class Traits?
If so then I advice you to deactivate anything that touches classes and skills in AA and/or any other mod.
Another problem could be that you maybe have mind controlled an Enemy and this sometimes trigger them to join you as a recruit (it is a vanilla bug). But enemy templates like the Forsaken are not set up to hold a personal spec skill line where many of our skills are attached to (the 3rd row or personal perk line).
If I can find the time, I'll make sure the game doesn't crash when this error occurs, but I can't say how long that will take.
I've been wating for the new update to try this mod and start anew. I'm using Modinx 3 beta 3, followed instructions, enabled in Modinx, launched game through Modinx. When I load in nobody has that 3rd row of abilities, Heavy still has Warcry, etc. Anything I'm doing wrong or is it not currently compatible with the new update?
Steam version btw
EDIT: Nevermind I got it working. Looking forward to trying this out!
Technically you can use it with a saved campaign and it should not crash or hang. Then any new spawned character will get the new skill sets, but I assume that is not really what you want ...
apart from this single ability i found the most of the mod is ok, i hope there will be a armor mutation augmentation balance, am using jason progression mod that covered weapon part, but that mutation heavy leg +12 acc is way too much for any character to pass, it need a work around whether to buff sth or nerf it, personally i prefer buff, since that can open more opportunity, for example a armor set for infiltrator+heavy class.
Rage Burst can very effectively be used now against large targets such as Acherons, Chirons, Skyllas as well as groups of enemies due to buff in accuracy. In fact you can find a video showcasing its use vs group of enemies in "Video" section.
That said, if you want to use old RB you can try some of the other mods or you can join our discord server and ask around - probably some people there might help you out
As for progression for Armor etc there are no such plans
EDIT:
It is indeed defined in the mod "RAGE BURST+": "RageBurst_ShootAbilityDef", so put "RAGE BURST+" in the lvl 7 slot or RageBurst_ShootAbilityDef
Right now payoff for risking your soldiers in melee does not exist, heck even heavies are better off multiclassing to snipers to abuse overwatch with 3AP weapons rather than playing as they supposed to. Honestly this is partly a vanilla issue where melee/CQC relied mostly on OP abilities rather weapons but nerfing these abilties AND buffing snipers even further is not the way to go.
Overall I think this mod is far more balanced and sensible than vanilla but it clearly has it's own issues
1. Sniper - I love the overwatch changes. There's now a way to deal with umbras rather than just running away or hoping for the best. Also the armor break is now in the right place and it made sense to move quick aim to the assault class. The triple pistol shot is good too, especially with the one AP Nergal's Wrath.
2. Berserker - also great. This was a lot of fun to play. It's good that you can't do the full on terminator run now but with dash and free pistol shots you can still be very effective. I liked the adrenaline skill change overall - it was good to have a reason to use one handed weapons again.
3. Technician - this was mostly a good class (technicians were also good in vanilla). However, remote deployment is so essential that it no longer makes sense for me to play technician as a second class and not get that skill.
I didn't get a lot of use out of amplify because my technicians weren't dealing special damage types and the healing was adequate already. Also AR targetting usually seemed like a wasted action for only 20% accuracy on one ally - perhaps if it were all allies or 50% accuracy?
4. Priest - This class mostly felt the same. It's nice to get the resurrect faction skill which allowed the priest to build a team of arthrons to send in as an additional tactical option. Lay waste appears to have a bug. The only time I used it I got messages about errors on the next turn and then the game hung during the AI turn.
5. Heavy - return fire makes sense, also shred resistance. The 2 AP jump is good. I found I had to combine heavy with assault to get quick aim if using heavy weapons otherwise moving a decent distance with jump and taking action was still a problem. Rage burst is better now but still weird. It's still hard to see whether it's aimed correctly and sometimes everything just misses, but I understand that problem is in vanilla.
I'm not blown away by the late game heavy weapon selection and the accuracy problems with those weapons mean you have to go right up to enemies where you are vulnerable to triton snipers etc, so I mostly used heavies as artillery units which meant that the return fire, shred resistance, etc weren't really of use to me.
I think more needs to be done to bring heavies to the front line but I suspect that better weapons would be the key or maybe some kind of aegis aura that adds temporary armor to other units within a certain range from the heavy?
6. Assault - I love the quick aim especially with the shard gun. Kill and run is good. Assault rifle aimed burst is nice except that late game assault rifles suck so I stuck to shot guns. With better assault rifles I think this class would really shine.
7. Infiltrator - this class was fine but seemed less versatile than other classes. They make good scouts although detection (from vanilla) is still very strange... 100% stealthed units that are not spotted, haven't fired and have made no sounds other than walking are still suddenly fired upon from some distance which makes them a bit of a liability but the sneak and surprise damage is good when you can use it.
A note about background skills: I think they would be better filtered a bit to make more sense for each class (I did this myself in the config file). For example it makes no sense for technicians that need to carry multiple turrets to get -4 str or priests to get WP penalties.
Overall I think the classes with the changes I liked best were the sniper combos and berserker/priests.
Thanks again! I think the changes are a significant improvement over vanilla.