Hey man , i did a fresh install of the game recently and installed this mod yesterday , i notice the version i installed was uploaded quite recently. im not sure if the mod is working in the menu when i click the drop down to change settings and such there are no options just "settings" in blue text. its been a while since i used this mod and i recall there being some sort of options in the menu which makes me think the mod is not working. do you have any idea what it might be conflicting with? oddly enough i think the last version before this one was working with roughly the same set of mods. im attaching a screenshot that has all the mods listed and the mod manager version.
Calling it cheating is a bit harsh. If anything, it's a neat way to adjust the game's randomness and make it feel more game-y, as the player still has no control over what will be rolled.
Cheating? This makes the game harder, you can't save scum with this mod turned on since the enemy is guaranteed to get a crit at least once over a 20 round battle.
Absolutely! So you should definitely not cheat. The rest of us though, will make our own choices, which if we do happen to 'cheat', I suspect will NOT be a gateway to moral turpitude ending at murder.
All joking aside, get over yourself. I would much rather be known as a cheater in an offline game as a solo player in an imaginary fantasy world than find myself tut tutting and offering moral advice in the delusion that I was a paragon of virtue. Save your faux sermons for Jesus camp.
Jeebus, go to a maths class or something. This isn't cheating. You can't 'game' the dice with this to make a more favourable outcome, it basically just even out the prolonged dice sequence, you can't roll three 1's in a row, but you can't roll three 20's either and you can still roll 1's and 20's.
Look, if you were rolling dice in a money game and the dice outcome was only applied one way and you could skip turns of the dice roll to burn a potentially low outcome, then, yes, you could use this to calculate odds like in a casino and play favoured outcomes, but you can't do that in Kingmaker, so there's no 'cheat'. You still have to eat the low rolls and over time you are still averaging the same outcomes, this just stops dense 'clustering'.
Does this still work with the recent updates? I'm still playing on 2.1.5 here. I want to use this mod because I feel the native dice rolls are distributed very awkwardly (multiple sub-5 rolls on a d20 for my party and multiple rolls over 15 on enemy rolls)
Is this mod still being developed? I was wondering if it was possible to assign percentages to each dice number. Like 1% to 1 rolls. 9% to 10 rolls on a d20, etc. Basically, to make the numbers around the average appear more frequently. Or the ability to mess around with it.
I would also like it if I could use the mod this way. I remember someone on the Steam discussion board tested the game, and found that you are way WAY more likely to get 1s, 2s, 19s and 20s more than any other number. The dice rolls aren't really random, they're weighted towards critical hits and critical misses.
If there was a mod that changed that, made the probability of getting each dice roll actually equal, that would be great.
I haven't been messing with it lately, so many projects so little time. My next plan was to implement something like what you mention.
Evil monkey I can assure you that they are wrong about the dice being skewed. A. We have reviewed the dice rolling code extensively. B. I tested the code by rolling a BILLION d20 with the game code and there was zero bias. And repeating low or same numbers were in the expected range.
@EV1LM0NK3Y64 You would get similar results rolling a regular D20 in real life if you only roll let's say 20 times. 20 rolls is only the minimum required to get every side but you'll probably not get it in any one single set of 20 rolls but if you roll 100 times then the total probability would look very similar to 1/20 for every number but probably not perfect. Even a billion D20 rolls probably wouldn't be a perfectly even 1/20 distribution as I'm sure Hambeard can attest to.
I'd really love if you added that distribution curve thing to this mod. Honestly I find the RNG in this game kind of insufferable. I was really disappointed too because the "Dice Selector" mod hasn't been updated since 2019 and so I can't set up the game to use 2d10 instead of 1d20.
I've actually been trying to mess with your mod to change to 2d10's despite having no idea what I'm doing, unfortunately the results are predictably bad... guess "Population" doesn't mean the number of dice being rolled, haha...
// Token: 0x0600BA31 RID: 47665 RVA: 0x002B7D2E File Offset: 0x002B5F2E public static int D(DiceFormula formula) { return RulebookEvent.Dice.D(formula.Rolls, formula.Dice); } this the rolling method the game uses.
From these two code snips you can see that the game only uses standard dice. A dice formula would be something like 2d6 the additional plus from str or similar is added to the dice roll in the method that calls the roll method. You can see that as DiceType is required a roll of d11 would not be allowed, it must be one of the dice listed in the enum. The dice analysis i performed before making this mod ensured that the vanilla rolling is not biased at all and 100% random in the scope of the needs for a RPG. Random can sometimes feel not random as random isn't fair and will do strange things that humans will think is a bug. So I can assure you that the dice system in KM is legit. I can't say the same for how the games add modifiers after the dice are rolled because I haven't looked that deeply into the code for that.
This is a really great mod, I'm also working on a mod or two that change how the game works at a low level to compensate for the lack of a GM and I'm curious if you'd want to chat and collaberate about said projects.
I like the idea, I'm a bit concerned about how the execution would play out though. Seems like it'd push you toward metagaming around the remaining numbers in the bag.
Adding multiple dice to the bag is one way to limit that, although you have to find the middle ground between enough copies and so many copies you're more or less full random again.
One idea I had was to have the bag get replaced with a fresh one, once it's gone through like half the numbers in the bag. That way you still eliminate those tilting critical miss streaks, but you don't ever end up whittling the numbers down to something downright predictable.
I was thinking the same thing, but also add extra dice to the bag. 2-3 per bag, refresh after half the numbers are gone. This way it is possible to have up to 3 max or min rolls in a row, but you still get a bit of smoothing out without flattening the curve too much and making it too static.
It sounds like this would make anything that uses exploding dice (like the Swashbuckler's Derring-Do) even less likely than it already is.
Basically, you can only get the extra die once unless the largested number is both the *last* roll in the old bag AND the *first* roll in the new bag, right?
"[...] Each type of die (d20, d10, etc.) has a 'bag' that is randomly generated. [...]" The problem lies within the 'a bag', as 'one bag'.
How much damage could 6d6 or so do, if all the dice came from the same bag? 1+2+3+4+5+6, no matter how you would arrange them. 2+4+6+1+3+5, or 3+1+2+4+5+6 equals the same. The only difference would happen, when some dice came from the next bag. That could reduce the randomness to less and even no randomness at all. Might need some little tuning, tbh.
I like the idea for save rolls. Nothing more random than having enemies with will 1 roll natural 'immune' three in a row. And for skill rolls. Basically everythig where 1 roll is made seems to look nice with this. Twice 1 or 20 in row would be possible, but less, and no 3 in a row anymore.
If you pre-generate the bag, maybe you could include more rolls, like d6 bag = 1x1 2x2 3x3 3x4 2x5 1x6 So a d6 bag could look like: 3,5,1,2,4,3,3,2,6,5 etc. with more numbers around the average inside a bag and less the extreme 1 and 6. Would not do this for the d20 for saves and skills etc, but maybe for the damage roll-dice only? That way the average/medium numbers from each dice would be generated more often and over all we would see a slightly shift to the average. Single dice rolls would also still benefit from being more average-shifted. Not really what you intended, but maybe in some occasions acceptable?
Players might even change it in their settings to their need, so config.cfg d6_1=0 d6_2=1 d6_3=2 d6_4=3 d6_5=2 d6_6=1 d8_1=1 d8_2=2 so the list of d6 would never include a 1, the d8 list one 1 etc.
No idea if d4-d12 are used for skill checks, saves etc. so you might want to seperate list for damage-dice-list and save-dice-list etc. or do something else.
Just my 2cents. But I like your idea. The 'randomness' is the only stupid thing that let's me quit a game session. VERY OFTEN, I might add.
Yeah, the idea 6d6, 8d8 being close to same all the didn't escape me. I do like the idea of pregenerated bags. Those and enable/disable bags will come out next probably come. Hopefully I and community suggestions can tune it down to a usable product. Thanks for the input.
Give Feedback
32 comments
Hey man , i did a fresh install of the game recently and installed this mod yesterday , i notice the version i installed was uploaded quite recently. im not sure if the mod is working in the menu when i click the drop down to change settings and such there are no options just "settings" in blue text. its been a while since i used this mod and i recall there being some sort of options in the menu which makes me think the mod is not working. do you have any idea what it might be conflicting with?
oddly enough i think the last version before this one was working with roughly the same set of mods.
im attaching a screenshot that has all the mods listed and the mod manager version.
All joking aside, get over yourself. I would much rather be known as a cheater in an offline game as a solo player in an imaginary fantasy world than find myself tut tutting and offering moral advice in the delusion that I was a paragon of virtue. Save your faux sermons for Jesus camp.
We found the Karen.
Look, if you were rolling dice in a money game and the dice outcome was only applied one way and you could skip turns of the dice roll to burn a potentially low outcome, then, yes, you could use this to calculate odds like in a casino and play favoured outcomes, but you can't do that in Kingmaker, so there's no 'cheat'. You still have to eat the low rolls and over time you are still averaging the same outcomes, this just stops dense 'clustering'.
I remember someone on the Steam discussion board tested the game, and found that you are way WAY more likely to get 1s, 2s, 19s and 20s more than any other number. The dice rolls aren't really random, they're weighted towards critical hits and critical misses.
If there was a mod that changed that, made the probability of getting each dice roll actually equal, that would be great.
Evil monkey I can assure you that they are wrong about the dice being skewed. A. We have reviewed the dice rolling code extensively. B. I tested the code by rolling a BILLION d20 with the game code and there was zero bias. And repeating low or same numbers were in the expected range.
I've actually been trying to mess with your mod to change to 2d10's despite having no idea what I'm doing, unfortunately the results are predictably bad... guess "Population" doesn't mean the number of dice being rolled, haha...
I had posted this, and was actually curious:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/640820/discussions/5/2952628643856428521/?tscn=1602095630
so is it truly 2d6 or did they go 1d11+1 ?
public enum DiceType
These are the dice the game uses.{
// Token: 0x04004A2F RID: 18991
Zero,
// Token: 0x04004A30 RID: 18992
One,
// Token: 0x04004A31 RID: 18993
D2,
// Token: 0x04004A32 RID: 18994
D3,
// Token: 0x04004A33 RID: 18995
D4,
// Token: 0x04004A34 RID: 18996
D6 = 6,
// Token: 0x04004A35 RID: 18997
D8 = 8,
// Token: 0x04004A36 RID: 18998
D10 = 10,
// Token: 0x04004A37 RID: 18999
D12 = 12,
// Token: 0x04004A38 RID: 19000
D20 = 20,
// Token: 0x04004A39 RID: 19001
D100 = 100
}
private static int D(int rolls, DiceType dice)
this the rolling method the game uses.{
int num = 0;
while (rolls-- > 0)
{
int num2 = UnityEngine.Random.Range(1, dice.Sides() + 1);
num += num2;
}
return num;
}
// Token: 0x0600BA31 RID: 47665 RVA: 0x002B7D2E File Offset: 0x002B5F2E
public static int D(DiceFormula formula)
{
return RulebookEvent.Dice.D(formula.Rolls, formula.Dice);
}
From these two code snips you can see that the game only uses standard dice. A dice formula would be something like 2d6 the additional plus from str or similar is added to the dice roll in the method that calls the roll method. You can see that as DiceType is required a roll of d11 would not be allowed, it must be one of the dice listed in the enum. The dice analysis i performed before making this mod ensured that the vanilla rolling is not biased at all and 100% random in the scope of the needs for a RPG. Random can sometimes feel not random as random isn't fair and will do strange things that humans will think is a bug. So I can assure you that the dice system in KM is legit. I can't say the same for how the games add modifiers after the dice are rolled because I haven't looked that deeply into the code for that.
Adding multiple dice to the bag is one way to limit that, although you have to find the middle ground between enough copies and so many copies you're more or less full random again.
One idea I had was to have the bag get replaced with a fresh one, once it's gone through like half the numbers in the bag. That way you still eliminate those tilting critical miss streaks, but you don't ever end up whittling the numbers down to something downright predictable.
Basically, you can only get the extra die once unless the largested number is both the *last* roll in the old bag AND the *first* roll in the new bag, right?
The problem lies within the 'a bag', as 'one bag'.
How much damage could 6d6 or so do, if all the dice came from the same bag?
1+2+3+4+5+6, no matter how you would arrange them.
2+4+6+1+3+5, or 3+1+2+4+5+6 equals the same.
The only difference would happen, when some dice came from the next bag.
That could reduce the randomness to less and even no randomness at all.
Might need some little tuning, tbh.
I like the idea for save rolls. Nothing more random than having enemies with will 1 roll
natural 'immune' three in a row. And for skill rolls.
Basically everythig where 1 roll is made seems to look nice with this. Twice 1 or 20 in row
would be possible, but less, and no 3 in a row anymore.
If you pre-generate the bag, maybe you could include more rolls, like
d6 bag =
1x1
2x2
3x3
3x4
2x5
1x6
So a d6 bag could look like: 3,5,1,2,4,3,3,2,6,5 etc. with more numbers around the average inside a
bag and less the extreme 1 and 6.
Would not do this for the d20 for saves and skills etc, but maybe for the damage roll-dice only?
That way the average/medium numbers from each dice would be generated more often and over
all we would see a slightly shift to the average.
Single dice rolls would also still benefit from being more average-shifted.
Not really what you intended, but maybe in some occasions acceptable?
Players might even change it in their settings to their need, so config.cfg
d6_1=0
d6_2=1
d6_3=2
d6_4=3
d6_5=2
d6_6=1
d8_1=1
d8_2=2
so the list of d6 would never include a 1, the d8 list one 1 etc.
No idea if d4-d12 are used for skill checks, saves etc. so you might want
to seperate list for damage-dice-list and save-dice-list etc. or do something
else.
Just my 2cents.
But I like your idea. The 'randomness' is the only stupid thing that let's me quit
a game session. VERY OFTEN, I might add.