Oblivion
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DavidJCobb

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71 comments

  1. malautomedonte
    malautomedonte
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    Hi, thanks for the mod first of all.

    I have experienced a weird behavior when using Better Cities. Basically the city of Bravil gets the Blood and Mud retexture for the most part of the buildings and models in general, even if I chose to install the vanilla version of the city with no new textures. Is there a way to fix this?
  2. ghoste921
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    so if i download this then i wouldnt need to activate archive invalidation on obmm, etc?
  3. Infernas14
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    Stupid question, but when you say this needs to be manually installed if using Mod Organizer, do you mean we should place it into the Oblivion/Data/OBSE folder in the game installation?
    1. DavidJCobb
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      Yes.
    2. Infernas14
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      Great, thanks!
  4. Rebelzize
    Rebelzize
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    This plugin is a life saver. Many thanks!
  5. red11by
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    So Im modding Oblivion right now using Bevilex mod list (+ ~10 personal mods). I tried playing it and noticed that often crashes randomly and constantly during fast travel. So to find what causes it I started disablling mods. I noticed that mods from Stability section cause crashes. And with disable/enable method I found out that SkyBSA is causing crashes. I dont think its because of my load order since it crashes with basic stability mods. ( From here https://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/47591) Any help?
    1. DavidJCobb
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      In order to investigate crashes, I need a crash log. Please use my crash logger to record one, and send it to me by way of Pastebin or a similar site.
    2. red11by
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      It doesnt work sadly. I still have default text in .log file.
      "Cobb Crash Logger Version 2.0.0, build 0.
      If this file is empty, then your game didn't crash! Probably!"
      And I didnt have anything except SkyBSA enabled.
      EDIT: I found out that it has something to do with how Mod Organizer 2 handles mods. When launching with Steam game doesnt crash when entering IC while with MO2 it does. Trying to find out why.
    3. GOOGLEPOX
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      I also have the same issue with crashes and Mod Organizer 2. Only have SkyBSA and CobbCrashLogger loaded. Crashes on entering Tamriel worldspace. Crash Logger still has the default text. Even having both .dlls placed directly in the data\obse\plugins\ folder causes a crash.
    4. red11by
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      So its not a proper fix but I found out how to use ArchiveInvalidation with MO2. In MO2 go to profile settings and enable Automated Archive Invalidation. It fixed all texture issues for me. Its not SkyBSA but at least its working.
  6. dtmwerks
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    Is this recommended for steam versions still?
    1. DavidJCobb
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      I don't think Steam/non-Steam would matter for this, but still: I only own a Steam version, and developed and tested this with it. Should be fine.
    2. AnonymousPlum
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      I use this for the disc version of Oblivion.
  7. XJDHDR
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    @DavidJCobb
    Do you have any interest in porting SkyBSA to Fallout 3 and New Vegas or is this an Oblivion exclusive?
    1. DavidJCobb
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      I'm interested in it, but I'm currently still working on an update to NorthernUI. I may need a few days after that's published to recharge; NorthernUI development has dragged on a lot and I'm beginning to burn out.

      If I find the time to work on SkyBSA further, I'll only be able to port it to New Vegas. I don't have Fallout 3 on PC.
    2. zilav
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      JIP LN NVSE extension already unlocks BSA overriding in New Vegas.
    3. XJDHDR
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      JIP LN NVSE extension already unlocks BSA overriding in New Vegas.

      Are you sure? I don't see anything in the documentation that say this.
    4. zilav
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      TTW uses it, of course I'm sure
      https://geckwiki.com/index.php?title=BSA_Files
    5. XJDHDR
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      TTW uses it, of course I'm sure
      https://geckwiki.com/index.php?title=BSA_Files

      TTW's documentation only says that it requires the extension, without saying why.

      As for that link, it appears that it's support for BSA overriding is limited to manually specifying that a BSA overrides others by including a specific file. As opposed to SkyBSA which automatically enables this behaviour. It also doesn't say anything about loose files always overriding BSAs, which SkyBSA also does.

      Finally, this info is not in JIP LN NVSE's documentation but rather is a single paragraph on a wiki page about BSAs in general on some random third-party website.

      @DavidJCobb
      If someone were to gift you a copy of FO3 and you found the time, would you be willing to port it to FO3 or do you have no interest whatsoever?
    6. DavidJCobb
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      If someone were to gift you a copy of FO3 and you found the time, would you be willing to port it to FO3 or do you have no interest whatsoever?
      Oh wow, I got to this late.

      That would be a kind thing for someone to do, but I would be extremely uncomfortable with receiving such a gift. I'm currently juggling multiple projects and trying to develop different skills; I'm not certain that I could guarantee work on a SkyBSA port, and I would feel horrible if I received a copy of the game for that purpose and failed to deliver results.
  8. Nexak
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    Works well.

    Disabling the derpy file date checks that it uses to actually form load order (Seriously, Bethesda? SERIOUSLY?!), so it's forced to read plugins.txt for L/O, would be a very nice addition to this.
  9. Lotus97
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    OBVIOUS DISCLAIMER: I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THIS MOD IS TO BLAME OR NOT

    I installed this mod (and one or two armor mods) and rebuilt my bashed patch. Then my game wouldn't even load. I found I could get it working by disabling certain mods, but my game was running fine with those mods before so I don't know why disabling them fixed it. However, I did have the problem again iirc and had to disable more mods. I guess I'll wait a bit to see what other users report, but it looks like I'll have to reinstall all my mods and start a new game.
  10. zzyma
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    So for some completely unfathomable reason, installing this plugin to replace archiveindalidationinvalidated!.bsa makes the oblivion grass overhaul blue fern issue come back, which is a archiveinvalidation issue, I thought that this mod was supposed to replace archiveinvalidation, I'm not supposed to use both am I? I tried reinstalling the grass mod and obviously that should really have no effect as loose files should always overwrite bsa files with skybsa, and it didn't, it was still bugged so for some reason a couple grass overhauls grass files still weren't being loaded in. i uninstalled skybsa and restored archiveinvalidationinvalidated!.bsa, and now the issue is resolved. If some light could be shed on this issue i would be most grateful.
    1. EASKATER
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      I don't believe this mod is to replace archive invalidation. I believe it is to replace the system where the original BSA's of the game have to be like older in the time stamp compared to other mods. For instance if you download Oblivion today a bunch of texture mods from like 2008 would not work if they are packed in a BSA because their time stamp might say 2008 and the game BSA's have the brand new date of being from today. Or something like that I'm not entirely sure how that system works, but no friend you still need archive invalidation This gets rid of the weird timestamp problems.
    2. DavidJCobb
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      Okay, so I'm going to admit right now that I don't fully understand ArchiveInvalidation because almost all of the community documentation about it is old, speculative, and layered: as people discovered problems with it, documentation started piling up such that you have a bunch of old guides and whatnot contradicting each other. I have stumbled across Oblivion's program code for ArchiveInvalidation and studied it, and what I've found has basically contradicted almost everything that has ever been said about the feature.

      Here's what I was able to discover based on reverse-engineering. I didn't test any of this experimentally, since ArchiveInvalidation wasn't the focus of my research, so I can't vouch for it 100%. I'd say I'm maybe 70% to 80% confident.

      a) ArchiveInvalidation itself is an old and buggy workaround for the timestamp problems. There's no other reason to use it, and SkyBSA should render it unnecessary.

      b) ArchiveInvalidation Invalidated is intended to either restrain or outright disable ArchiveInvalidation. The mod's own description page is self-contradictory and unclear about what it's actually meant to accomplish. However, my research (again, without empirical testing) suggests that ArchiveInvalidation Invalidated shouldn't actually do anything at all -- based on how the game loads files, the central premise behind how AII works should be completely incorrect, and AII shouldn't work.

      If you have an ArchiveInvalidation.txt file anywhere in your Oblivion installation, then I'd try keeping SkyBSA, getting rid of the ArchiveInvalidation.txt file, and seeing if that helps. Keep a backup of the file (or just rename it instead of deleting it) in case this doesn't work for you.
    3. zzyma
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      There is no archiveinvalidation.txt file anywhere on my system it would appear, i searched both my drives. Also is it necessary to remove the entry in the oblivion.ini that mentions the txt file? The ini entry mentioning archiveinvalidationinvalidated!.bsa is removed and the bsa itself is also removed from my folders. I don't really understand what could possibly be going wrong.
    4. qwertyasdfgh
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      Well, ArchiveInvalidationInvalidated (which is also called "BSA Redirection") most definitely works. I can also confirm that with SkyBSA installed, but without AII, some loose texture files don't properly override vanilla BSA.
      BSA overriding another BSA does work though, so it looks like for the best experience you need both SkyBSA and AII.
    5. zzyma
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      Ah ok, so it's not just me then, is just some textures won't load in, so you need to use both skybsa and archiveinvalidationinvalidated.bsa
      So in other words, I should keep BSA redirection activated in wrye bash.
    6. zzyma
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      Alright, after further play testing, I can't use this plugin. It is functioning now that i am using it along side archiveinvalidationinvalidated!.bsa, however it is causing some wonky behavior in my game and for this reason i can't use this. My game simply runs smoother without skybsa, some people have mentioned improved performance, and at first i thought i had this as well, but it instead was just erratic performance. My fps while using skybsa would be jumping around all over the place, sometimes a improvement, other times in some places where my fps would normally be fine, it would tank hard and i would get heavy stutter, in a area normally giving around 50-60fps, i would be getting 18. Also i experienced a random ctd upon loading a save from the title screen, after this ctd i changed nothing and went and attempted to load again to see if it was truly random, game loaded with no ctd, so it was indeed a random ctd. Nothing else has been changed in my set up and it was quite stable before installing skybsa, i never experienced a ctd on loading a save like this before. This may just be things in regard to my set up and such so don't take this as me saying not to use skybsa, it just simply is being very wonky for me and i thought i would share this incase others experienced something similar or perhaps it helps fix something in case this isn't a issue exclusive to me.
    7. DianaTESGotH
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      Are you testing this out with a previouly modded game and saves?
    8. zzyma
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      Yes, are you suggesting am i supposed to test a bsa and loose file handling method such as skybsa on a vanilla set up?
      Maybe starting a new game might help though, but i haven't seen anyone mention anything about issues with existing saves.
    9. DavidJCobb
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      I'll make ArchiveInvalidation the focus of my research as soon as I'm finished working on the next update for NorthernUI. I've found all of the involved code; I just didn't fully translate all of it out of x86. When I do, I'll document my findings and publish the full translation for any other programmers to review, and that should put the matter to rest for good.

      My fps while using skybsa would be jumping around all over the place, sometimes a improvement, other times in some places where my fps would normally be fine, it would tank hard and i would get heavy stutter, in a area normally giving around 50-60fps, i would be getting 18.
      This could be a result of the changed lookup order. The vanilla code valued fast file handling over sensible file handling: there was a minor optimization that Bethesda could take specifically because they didn't consider (or didn't care about) BSA conflicts, where if a file is found inside of one BSA, then the next search for any file will check that BSA first. SkyBSA has to disable that optimization in order to enforce consistent BSA behavior. The lookup process should still be quite fast, but that's going to depend on the number of BSAs, on what file types those BSAs are flagged as containing, and on your system specs.

      Also i experienced a random ctd upon loading a save from the title screen, after this ctd i changed nothing and went and attempted to load again to see if it was truly random, game loaded with no ctd, so it was indeed a random ctd. Nothing else has been changed in my set up and it was quite stable before installing skybsa, i never experienced a ctd on loading a save like this before.
      SkyBSA makes no changes whatsoever to any code related to loading a save file.

      EDIT: After further investigation, I believe I may have located the specific process by which "BSA Redirection" works. I can say with certainty that it has absolutely nothing to do with ArchiveInvalidation, but I'm not yet certain how it does work. Basically, in addition to maintaining a list of all loaded BSAs, the game also remembers the first BSA to load for any given filetype (e.g. the first texture BSA, the first mesh BSA, and so on); this is not used for ArchiveInvalidation or for most file lookups, so I now have to track down where it is used.

      For now, my recommendation would be that if your mod setup uses BSA Redirection, you should leave that enabled even when using SkyBSA, at least until such time as I figure out what BSA Redirection is actually doing. (The mod description has been edited to recommend this.) All technical documentation and research related to ArchiveInvalidation is now on Github.

      EDIT: After some research, I think I may have code that can replicate the function of BSA redirection without needing "ArchiveInvalidation Invalidated" or any similar measures. The problem is that I have no way to test it: my own modding setup doesn't seem to require it, or else I don't notice what breaks when I don't use it. I tried downloading the grass overhaul you described so I could use it as a test-case, but I was unable to find any blue ferns; moreover, if these were the blue ferns you meant, they were a design mistake that the author made sometime in 2016 and they have nothing to do with BSAs.
    10. zzyma
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      The blue fern bug does have to do with BSA issues. I read the same thread you were reading, but there is further information on it that explains exactly how and why the blue fern bug occurs and it is not a error on the authors part, it is a bsa issue, here is a screenshot of a informative post in the thread on the subject.
      If you search the word blue in the thread you will find all the info on it including this post i am linking a screenshot of.
      https://i.postimg.cc/8CMJQfjz/information.png
    11. qwertyasdfgh
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      If you're looking for things to test this on, these texture replacers don't work for me without bsa redirection:
      https://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/48460
      https://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/47811
    12. DavidJCobb
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      Strand Magic turned out to be the perfect test-case -- quick to download, quick to install, and quick to test. Thank you.

      I have code that can reproduce the effect of BSA redirection without the need for a dummy BSA file or any mod manager configuration. However, I'm going to do just a little more research before I publish an update. Now that I was able to reproduce this issue under experimental conditions, I'm close to understanding precisely what the issue is and why BSA redirection fixes it.

      For now, y'all should leave BSA redirection on even when using SkyBSA. If you click the "Track" button on the mod page, you'll be notified of any updates -- and if I manage to make BSA redirection unnecessary, I'll say so in the changelog.
    13. sr383
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      Another fun fact: MO2 (and probably MO) offers its own invalidation.bsa file, called Oblivion - Invalidation.bsa. This one's unusual in that MO places it DIRECTLY into the Data directory, whereas just about everything else MO does is limited to virtual profile directories. On a fresh MO install, the file does not exist, but if you click the Automatic Archive Invalidation checkbox for ANY MO profile, the file is written directly to the data folder, and a reference to Oblivion - Invalidation.bsa is added to the SArchiveList in MO's profile-specific oblivion.ini. At the same time, MO clears the reference to SInvalidationFile=ArchiveInvalidation.txt, changing it to SInvalidationFile=.

      As a result, my Data directory has both Oblivion - Invalidation.bsa AND ArchiveInvalidationInvalidated!.bsa, and my profile-specific oblivion.ini only references both BSAs. No idea if these two are intended to coexist or which one actually works better.
    14. EASKATER
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      It took me a while back to get archive invalidation to work with MO2 after the update that added forced libraries for the script extender. What I found is that the mod from the nexus that I used to use before MO2 did not work with it. What did work was checking the check box Automatic Archive Invalidation. So I'm not sure if you would want to risk removing one to see if it is not needed, but If you wanted to I would suggest to remove the mod one and keep the one from Mod Organizer 2 checkbox.