Question. If I'm already at the character leveling up point. Say I gain levels on several other skills, are the attribute bonus points from those not "stored" over to the next character level up? (I.E) if you have all 10 skills leveled up, does any further skill ups not carry over to the bonus that is stored for the next character level?
They carry over, but the bonuses you see for the level up you’ve already earned were locked in when you got the 10th major skill increase. That’s actually vanilla behavior. You will see those attribute bonuses eventually.
"Compatible with all mods except those that change the number of attribute points provided at level-up."
But this mod works perfectly with A fair attribute gain change (https://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/48105)
Does this mean that it can also work with Lower Threshold for Attribute Modifiers - easier 5 Attribute on Level Up? (https://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/52387)
that mod reduces skill increases needed for attribute multipliers
I can confirm that this works perfectly with Lower Threshold for Attribute Modifiers - easier 5 Attribute on Level Up (https://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/52387) after testing, just use a bashed patch
It’s not going to blow up in your face or anything, but the internal math that’s calculating how to manage your pool of attributes is not responding to the changes from those mods. In this case, I think it’d be removing extra skill increases from your pool when you actually apply the attribute bonus at level up. Applying a +5 bonus would still take 10 skill increases from your pool, even if it takes fewer for you to earn that bonus in your game.
idk why, but this comment is wildly difficult to read. could you rephrase the last part?
In this case, I think it’d be removing extra skill increases from your pool when you actually apply the attribute bonus at level up. Applying a +5 bonus would still take 10 skill increases from your pool, even if it takes fewer for you to earn that bonus in your game.
are you saying +5 attribute modifiers may make you level up much quicker than expected, as if you've actually levelled those skills enough to reach that added bonus?
Really nice mod, I really like the idea. It feels more natural comparing to vanilla, always +5 mod and remastered version. Unfortunately, I've faced an issue when unused points were not transferred to the next level. I was using this mod together with both Skill Diary Undone and Skill Diary Redone to track my progress. Maybe they conflict somehow IDK. For instance, I had a lot of unused skill points at lvl 19: Personality +24, Speed +2, Str +3 etc. Some of these points were transferred from the previous level. But after leveling up to lvl 20, ALL my transferred points were reset to 0. It just suddenly stopped working. I've tried to reload my previous save but this issue occurs every single time. I guess I'm gonna switch this mode off.
Been quite a while since I worked on this, but I believe the pool I maintain your unused skill increases in is distinct from the value Skill Diary is reading there. I transfer from that pool into the value Skill Diary is reporting to queue the increases up to be used for the next level, but having zero queued in this manner isn’t necessarily an indication that your pool is empty. My response to the post below is one example of a case where I never get the opportunity to transfer the points out of the pool for a given level up.
To better understand your case and whether there is an issue, I’d need to know what behavior you see when you rest to level up at 21 and possibly level 22. It would also be useful to know how you earned level 19 and 20. Were you able to rest to level up to 19 before reaching 20?
I tried it and it seems to work to some point? Haven't played Oblivion in more than a decade. I tried gaining 2 levels and had a couple skills at +5. I selected 2 of them and luck, and levelled again, but the 3rd skill that used to give me +5 was now only at +3, why would that happen? I didn't install any other mods editing attributes.
It’s the “gained 2 levels” part of your description here. Since Oblivion didn’t ship with this feature, they needed a solution that ensured a player who gained multiple levels before leveling up didn’t allocate all their attribute bonuses to only the first level and then lose it all for subsequent level ups. They solved this by caching the state of your attribute bonuses at the point that you earned the level up and then clearing them to start counting for the next level up, regardless of when you rest.
This mod works by checking which bonuses you allocated at the point of resting and applying a level up. It’s been a while since I made this, but I don’t think it was possible to intercept that caching behavior at the point of earning the level up. What you’re seeing is the bonuses that were locked in when you earned the level ups, and that +5 that you skipped was actually carried over to your next unearned level up. You haven’t lost the progress, the game has just already decided what your bonuses should be for that second level.
This vanilla game behavior isn’t very well-understood and can definitely be confusing at times.
If you haven’t leveled them for the current level, you can level them for the next one. That eventually runs out when all of your major skills are maxed, but I’ve done the math here in the comments and you should have plenty of opportunity regardless. This mod doesn’t change the optimal efficiency, it just reduces the need for it.
If I want to try to max out attributes on my character, does that mean I still need to be aiming for +4's or +5's? I'm getting to a point where it feels like I ought to focus on training just my minor skills a whole lot until I have a large pool of points to carry over for several levels.
I was just leveling up every time I was able to, but now it feels like I optimized poorly. Maybe using an "always +5" mod would be better for me?
Edit: I think I understand now after I read one of your earlier posts.
Spoiler:
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If for some reason, you gain more than 10 skill increases for any single attribute, those might go to waste. I don't know if they get carried over to the next level.
This mod carries over all excess skill increases, including any increases greater than 10 for an attribute you took the +5 for. If you ever increase a skill and aren't able to benefit from that increase, you will always be able to benefit from it later (level cap notwithstanding).
your attributes end up being limited by how many levels you were able to commit to them, and every level that's not 5/5/5 is "wasting" attributes right?
If we assume that you aren't going to jail to intentionally lower your skills, you are correct that there is a sort of finite global timeframe for getting all of your attribute progression in. It differs depending on which major skills you select relative to the rest of the character creation options, but you can expect somewhere in the ballpark of 50 levels total.
Though the starting attributes spreads differ with race and gender, no matter what character you create you will need to increase your attributes by 430 points overall in order to get every non-luck attribute to 100. Birthsigns can reduce this, but we'll ignore them here. If you are leveling completely optimally and achieving the 5/5/5 bonus, you increase your attributes by 15 each level. 430 points to max everything out / 15 points per level = 28 levels to get every attribute to 100. Since you can expect to get around 50 levels, that leaves a lot of padding to achieve this without leveling completely optimally. In fact, if you also try to level luck up to 100 (explicitly a min-maxing optimizer's goal) you still get a little padding, taking 430 / 10 = 43 levels to do so.
To be clear, it is possible to not max out all of your attributes within the 50 level range. It requires you to invest in minor skills as you go. But it's always been pretty achievable in vanilla and this mod makes it even easier since your minor skill gains accumulate. Overall, I don't think the soft level cap is a major influence on the way people play the game, especially because most people will finish with a character long before they hit that cap and likely aren't even gunning for all 100s in the first place. It's only a true pressure if you are trying to get luck up to 100, but that's probably your kind of fun if you set that goal.
now I'm confused as to the "optimal" leveling style
Finally, a word on this point, and the motivation of this mod. The optimal leveling style is unchanged with this mod. You still get the most benefit at the fastest rate if you target three attributes and increase their skills 10 times per level. This mod reduces the punishments for a suboptimal leveling style: not getting the full 10 increases, leveling skills outside of the core 3 attributes you're going to increase, increasing an attribute more than 10 times, etc. Rather than eliminate the reward you could have gained but failed to for each of those actions, this mod simply defers that reward to a later time of your choosing. This will always be slower than optimal play, but you will see the gains you achieved realized.
The motivation of this mod is to alleviate the pressure to play with an optimal leveling style. It's still there if you want it and enjoy it, but for many players the rigidity of that style forces them to play in a way that they aren't interested in. The constant punishments for not falling in line with that playstyle makes it difficult for people to ignore. I made this made to provide those people the security that they could play the game however they liked while still ensuring that every bit of progress they did make was earned.
I guess I don't really have to worry too much, since I can just go to jail to finish off any attributes I missed out on maxing. Maybe I can find a mod that offers methods other than jail to decrease skills.
I’d say you only really need to be focused on peak efficiency if you’re also shooting for 100 luck or the game’s difficulty is high enough that every intermediary level matters. Beyond that, you should do pretty well for yourself by just making sure you keep up with training your minor skills as you go
this mod doesnt work... tried it with OBSE versions 21 and 22 (with OBSE tester confirming its installed), I use ModOrganizer 2 and also tried dropping it in the data folder, but nothing, unused attributes do not carry over
This came bundled with the second most endorsed collection. I like the concept of reworking the skill levels ups. i was about to just go with the one that just gives +5's for free when i decided to actually look at this.
although. . .this one almost seems to incentivize staying at level 1 for longer so i can bank a bunch of stat increases early. I'll see, as i play
There’s actually a vanilla game mechanism in place to account for that. The game locks in your attribute bonuses for a given level when you first unlock the level up. This was necessary in the vanilla game because players would lose everything for chains of level ups without it, but it also means there’s no attribute progression advantage to holding off on a level up.
184 comments
Say I gain levels on several other skills, are the attribute bonus points from those not "stored" over to the next character level up?
(I.E) if you have all 10 skills leveled up, does any further skill ups not carry over to the bonus that is stored for the next character level?
But this mod works perfectly with A fair attribute gain change (https://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/48105)
Does this mean that it can also work with Lower Threshold for Attribute Modifiers - easier 5 Attribute on Level Up? (https://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/52387)
that mod reduces skill increases needed for attribute multipliers
idk why, but this comment is wildly difficult to read. could you rephrase the last part?
are you saying +5 attribute modifiers may make you level up much quicker than expected, as if you've actually levelled those skills enough to reach that added bonus?
Unfortunately, I've faced an issue when unused points were not transferred to the next level. I was using this mod together with both Skill Diary Undone and Skill Diary Redone to track my progress. Maybe they conflict somehow IDK.
For instance, I had a lot of unused skill points at lvl 19: Personality +24, Speed +2, Str +3 etc. Some of these points were transferred from the previous level. But after leveling up to lvl 20, ALL my transferred points were reset to 0. It just suddenly stopped working. I've tried to reload my previous save but this issue occurs every single time. I guess I'm gonna switch this mode off.
To better understand your case and whether there is an issue, I’d need to know what behavior you see when you rest to level up at 21 and possibly level 22. It would also be useful to know how you earned level 19 and 20. Were you able to rest to level up to 19 before reaching 20?
This mod works by checking which bonuses you allocated at the point of resting and applying a level up. It’s been a while since I made this, but I don’t think it was possible to intercept that caching behavior at the point of earning the level up. What you’re seeing is the bonuses that were locked in when you earned the level ups, and that +5 that you skipped was actually carried over to your next unearned level up. You haven’t lost the progress, the game has just already decided what your bonuses should be for that second level.
This vanilla game behavior isn’t very well-understood and can definitely be confusing at times.
I was just leveling up every time I was able to, but now it feels like I optimized poorly. Maybe using an "always +5" mod would be better for me?
Edit: I think I understand now after I read one of your earlier posts.
tried it with OBSE versions 21 and 22 (with OBSE tester confirming its installed), I use ModOrganizer 2 and also tried dropping it in the data folder, but nothing, unused attributes do not carry over
I like the concept of reworking the skill levels ups. i was about to just go with the one that just gives +5's for free when i decided to actually look at this.
although. . .this one almost seems to incentivize staying at level 1 for longer so i can bank a bunch of stat increases early.
I'll see, as i play
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File: AttributeProgressionRedesign.esp Offset: 0x02F8 Command: Operator [
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Eval Subscript_Array_Number: Invalid array access - expected string index, received numeric. File: AttributeProgression Redesign.esp Offset: 0x02F8 Command: Let
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File: AttributeProgression Redesign.esp Offset: 0x02F8 Command: Operator [