For some reason J'skarRestored for BrumaMGRestored.esp (and possibly the other ESPs too) seems to undo a fix made in UOP that would remove the essential tag from Irlav Jarol when starting The Bloodworm Helm (MG15Helm). I haven't tested if this has any impact in the quest though.
EDIT: Additionally, it doesn't carry over the changes by UOP in "JskarScript".
I haven't been messing with Oblivion for a long time, and honestly I'd have to relearn how to diagnose and fix this. Was this fix implemented in UOP since 2018?
What are you using to deal with load-order/bashing/etc?
Hey, thanks for the answer. Unless I'm completely mistaken, the fix I mentioned seem to relate to the last part of the following bug:
During "The Bloodworm Helm" it is possible to outdistance the entrance to Fort Teleman which will cause the stage 20 update to fail, leaving the quest marker pointing to the exit instead of the location of Irlav's body. The GetDistance check has been replaced with a trigger zone just inside the fort entry, which is more reliable. The body also would remain after the quest was completed and not be removed on cell respawn.
Which was corrected in UOP 3.3.0 released in 2010-08-29 (according to this version history). I'm using a combination of Mod Organizer 2 and LOOT for load order and Wrye Bash for bashing.
If I may, in case you have enough time and interest to carry over the UOP changes, it'd be relatively trivial by using TES4Edit. Simply open both UOP and your mod, filter for conflicts and drag and drop the changes. As for the script, your version and UOP's can be manually merged using the Construction Set. I could also provide you the merged ESP I made, although I haven't tested it yet.
To be fair using UOP is a matter of personal preference and not everyone might want the fixes included in your mod, so you shouldn't feel any pressure to change anything. I just thought I'd mention it for the sake of awareness. Also, I'm sorry - I remember I didn't like TES4Edit in the beginning because I thought it was so confusing, but I promise you it's simple. If you still want to carry over UOP's fixes, try this:
1. Open TES4Edit and select only the relevant mods you want to view (in this case, I unchecked everything and clicked only Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp and J'skarRestored for BrumaMGRestored.esp). It'll automagically check it's masters too. 2. On the left pane it'll load the ESPs and all the changes they contain. So if you expand your own mod, it'll show everything you did such as the new AI Packages. 3. On the right pane it'll show more details, and if the record you selected changes anything already contained in another loaded mod, it'll show a comparison, in the order of your load order (so your mod is the rightmost one because it loads last and thus overwrites the previous ones). 4. You can right click anywhere on the right pane and select "Hide no conflict and empty rows" to show only the relevant changes. So in this case, you can see UOP changed J'skar's min level from 0 to 1, removed "Mages Guild Key" from his inventory, and changed his hair length, while your mod added new AI Packages to him but didn't carry over UOP's changes. 5. The previous example is a non issue for those using a bashed patch as it'll merge the two records, but of course not everyone uses Wrye Bash, plus it won't fix every conflict (for instance, in JskarScript your version will overwrite the UOP version, eliminating their fixes). You can carry over UOP's changes to your mod by simply dragging and dropping the value from one column to another, like so (if you see a scary warning it's normal). Note that for the item you have to interact with the row above the item's name. 6. Similarly to step 4, you can right click on the left pane and select "Apply Filter to show Conflicts" to show only the relevant conflicts (the J'skar record might not show in yours if you fixed the conflicts in step 5). Simply repeat step 5 for MG15Helm and you're halfway done. Again for global references you have to interact with the row above the name, like we did for the item. 7. The last conflict, JskarScript, can't be solved by a drag and drop as you have to manually merge the code changes from UOP and your own, which can only be done in the Construction Set. You can at least view the codes by double clicking on "Script Source", here.
And that's about it. Anyway, I hope this has been helpful even if you choose not to carry over the fixes as TES4Edit is a pretty amazing tool, in case you ever get back to modding Oblivion :p
Would it be possible to have a mod that restores Arielle Jurard and Roliand Hanus too after the Anvil Recommendation quest is completed? I could swear there was a mod that did exactly that, but it's long since been taken down for some reasons.
(Speaking of, "Bruma Guild Reconstructed" and its author have disappeared from this site too...)
Probably. It would be relatively trivial to remove the line of code that deletes them. It wouldn't be all that difficult to get them to roam around either. Two issues though:
1. Where would they roam? Would they also go to the Arcane University? It made sense for J'Skar, as he already went to live there (there was even dialogue about it) I just gave him AI to leave the room and wander once he was no longer needed.
2. The bigger problem is dialogue. At least Roliand has no standard conversational options. A modder would have to essentially have him behave like any other imperial mage, or leave him saying "It is ill-advised for us to speak" constantly.
Neither of these is insurmountable, but they kind-of reduce the utility. J'skar was a really unique character, and his dialogue and appearance sort-of continue to reflect that after his restoration. He's even a destruction trainer. It feels expected for him to stay at the AU, while I feel like not knowing where Roliand and Arielle went is more natural.
With all of that said, I've been very busy lately, but if I do get back into modding oblivion, I'll look into restoring these two. (Of course anyone else is free to do the same, and can use this mod as a learning tool)
Note also: I'm aware that mod is no longer available. I feel they still deserve the callout however, and I have no intention of removing support for it for those who still have it.
I was wondering if I could include a copy of J'skarRestored for BrumaGReconstructed.esp and the other ESPs in my Wrye Bash Collection of Mergeable Mods utility?
Oh, it's as simple as adding that line at the end of the description in Wrye Bash? (I assume including the curly braces).
Can you explain a little of how bash tags help and what can go wrong if they're missing? I've made the change, but I'd rather understand it fully before I try to write the changelog.
You can read about them here. https://wrye-bash.github.io/docs/Wrye Bash Advanced Readme.html#patch-tags
Because this mod adds packages to an NPC, it should have those tags in the description with brackets so Wrye will automatically assign them.
If they're missing then the changes of this mod might not get carried forward/get overwritten by other mods. Having them merges the changes into the bashed patch.
Hello! I'm glad this mod exists, I'd like to know if you could make this mod compatible with OMG, because I have not installed it yet but I read somewhere that it rebuilds the bruma guild without needing to a dedicated mod, and I suppose that with this mod J'skar will not be able to go there if the cell does not have the same reference. I too have always loved J'skar, and I am ashamed to admit that in all my playtroughs I had never noticed that it disappeared from the game (having no interest for the archmage tower after have finished the guild). And I came across your mod by chance on comments from the mods that are rebuilding the bruma guild. I am outraged that they make him disappear in this way! and thank you for this mod! Sorry for my bad english
Sorry, I'm not actually that familiar with many Oblivion mods, can you give me a link to OMG? (Or at least the full title)
I can't promise I can make this mod compatible with it, but I can at least take a look.
The basic version *should* be compatible with most mods (that don't modify specific details of the Arcane University, the AU questline, or J'skar himself) in the sense that J'skar will intelligently roam around the AU, but it's *extremely* unlikely that any existing version of this mod will send him back to a reconstructed guild if it's reconstructed by a mod not listed on the main page.
Origins of the mage's guild by giskard. You will not find it on the nexus because Giskard had different with the modding community. I have a link on hand but it is a French translation. The mod also affects the Arcane University but what matters to me especially is that J'skar back to Bruma and does not disappear from my game. No need to worry I'm glad you answered me a year later ^^ To be honest I will not be able to install OMG and be content with the Bruma reconstruction mod I had already set aside, just to enjoy yours. I just learned that OMG was doing it too, but I was wondering because OMG is doing a lot more good things than "just" rebuilding the bruma guild.
Oh, and if you can not do anything about it, I would like your opinion on what is the best Bruma rebuild mod, restored or reconstructed (if you've tried both) Thanks! :)
Unfortunately that's a hornet's nest I'd rather not get involved in. Even just attempting to instal OMG for testing would apparently force me to agree to a licence that makes me uncomfortable, and its files aren't made easy to examine otherwise. As a result I cannot tell you whether it is or is not compatible even at the basic stays-at-the-AU level, which I find quite surprising and embarrassing. I apologize. If you or anyone else who has OMG installed anyway would like to test it out with the basic JR esp, I will add a note to the description, but I don't think I'm going to be able to make it any more compatible than it may or not be already. Sorry again.
Edit: Also, if anyone is interested in making these mods compatible, let me know, and I will do what I can to facilitate that.
As for which of the already compatible mods is better, It's really subjective. I have a couple nitpicks with both, but they are both quality mods as far as I'm concerned. Personally I went with BMGRestored, partly because I prefer the way its characters are mostly added to Cyrodiil from the start, rather than adding them after the destruction. If I remember correctly, BGReconstructed also adds some voiceless dialogue that irked me a bit. It's been a long time since I played through them though, so I could easily be forgetting or misremembering something.
Nice to J'Skar back in his old digs with a new crew, much better than him vanishing into the ether without even a whimper. Hopefully the new guildmaster inspires him to more shenanigans... Cheers!
"Without even a whimper" This is exactly it. Even if they'd given him a line of dialogue like "I'm getting out of Cyrodiil. I think I'll go visit my family in Elsweyr." it wouldn't have been so bad.
***Warning before reading my comment, SPOILER ALERT !
Glad to see people who like J'Skar like me. It was so sad when I saw him just hiding in the corner of the room while he can't do anything to safe his guild mates, saw them died one by one from a massacre. It was just heartbreaking and scary at the same time. Since his best friend was also killed in that cursed place, he looks really lonely to me. No more friends, no more guild-leader to prank, all the good times gone. This mod made him reappear again so he is not disappear eternally like he was sucked into an Oblivion plane. Plus, luckily I have a follower mod that I can make him as a follower, to make sure that he doesn't feel lonely anymore :). So, I thank you for this mod.
Glad to see you like it! It's a very simple thing, but it always bothered me that he just vanished without a trace. When I made this mod for myself, I figured I'd upload it on the off-chance someone else was bothered enough to fix it. I had no idea there would be almost a hundred of you in the first six months!
Out of curiosity, are you using any other mods that affect the Bruma mages guild or the Arcane University? If so, have you found they interact smoothly with this mod?
I'm not familiar with Open Cities Outer Districts.
I have his AI refer to specific things/specific cells in the AU. If those cells no longer exist, or they are changed so the references do not work, then this mod will not work with them.
Edit: By "will not work" I mean that J'skar may get lost or trapped somewhere after he would otherwise disappear, but it *should* have no effect on the mages guild quest line or anything worse than J'skar acting dopey or going missing after the quest is completed. (They may even work seamlessly, but that depends on how the other mod is implemented)
Everyone uses OBSE nowadays. Making it a single package means you will get more people using it. As for me, for example, I don't yet want to download it, because I have not yet decided if I'm gonna use some Bruma restoration mods, and if yes, which of them. I've just found out, that I helped you on reddit previously, when you asked a question about compatibility and load order. Glad to meet you :)
Hehey, cool, sorry, I wish I'd recognised you! If you decide to install a bruma restoration mod, then you should have no problem switching versions. (Switching between restoration mods won't work if he's already at the restored guild however, but that wouldn't be solved by OBSE)
The only hiccup is that *if* J'skar is already at the arcane university, you will have to manually add J'skar to the Arcane University faction, or he will be stuck there.
I will look into OBSE scripts (after all, anyone who doesn't want it can still download the old version) but it'll probably be a while, as I don't know much about it, and classes are starting to pick up again.
P.S. Thanks again for the advice on Reddit. I had a lot of trouble finding much information online, and when I gave up and asked questions, you were the only one able and willing to help. Glad to "meet" you too!
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EDIT: Additionally, it doesn't carry over the changes by UOP in "JskarScript".
I haven't been messing with Oblivion for a long time, and honestly I'd have to relearn how to diagnose and fix this. Was this fix implemented in UOP since 2018?
What are you using to deal with load-order/bashing/etc?
Which was corrected in UOP 3.3.0 released in 2010-08-29 (according to this version history). I'm using a combination of Mod Organizer 2 and LOOT for load order and Wrye Bash for bashing.
If I may, in case you have enough time and interest to carry over the UOP changes, it'd be relatively trivial by using TES4Edit. Simply open both UOP and your mod, filter for conflicts and drag and drop the changes. As for the script, your version and UOP's can be manually merged using the Construction Set. I could also provide you the merged ESP I made, although I haven't tested it yet.
You say "simply", but I've downloaded TES4Edit... and I have never been more lost.
I'd hoped it'd be something I could do quickly, but it seems not something I'll have time to look at in the next couple weeks at least.
If you want to provide the fixed file, I'll throw it up, but I'll feel weird about it ;p
1. Open TES4Edit and select only the relevant mods you want to view (in this case, I unchecked everything and clicked only Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp and J'skarRestored for BrumaMGRestored.esp). It'll automagically check it's masters too.
2. On the left pane it'll load the ESPs and all the changes they contain. So if you expand your own mod, it'll show everything you did such as the new AI Packages.
3. On the right pane it'll show more details, and if the record you selected changes anything already contained in another loaded mod, it'll show a comparison, in the order of your load order (so your mod is the rightmost one because it loads last and thus overwrites the previous ones).
4. You can right click anywhere on the right pane and select "Hide no conflict and empty rows" to show only the relevant changes. So in this case, you can see UOP changed J'skar's min level from 0 to 1, removed "Mages Guild Key" from his inventory, and changed his hair length, while your mod added new AI Packages to him but didn't carry over UOP's changes.
5. The previous example is a non issue for those using a bashed patch as it'll merge the two records, but of course not everyone uses Wrye Bash, plus it won't fix every conflict (for instance, in JskarScript your version will overwrite the UOP version, eliminating their fixes). You can carry over UOP's changes to your mod by simply dragging and dropping the value from one column to another, like so (if you see a scary warning it's normal). Note that for the item you have to interact with the row above the item's name.
6. Similarly to step 4, you can right click on the left pane and select "Apply Filter to show Conflicts" to show only the relevant conflicts (the J'skar record might not show in yours if you fixed the conflicts in step 5). Simply repeat step 5 for MG15Helm and you're halfway done. Again for global references you have to interact with the row above the name, like we did for the item.
7. The last conflict, JskarScript, can't be solved by a drag and drop as you have to manually merge the code changes from UOP and your own, which can only be done in the Construction Set. You can at least view the codes by double clicking on "Script Source", here.
And that's about it. Anyway, I hope this has been helpful even if you choose not to carry over the fixes as TES4Edit is a pretty amazing tool, in case you ever get back to modding Oblivion :p
(Speaking of, "Bruma Guild Reconstructed" and its author have disappeared from this site too...)
1. Where would they roam? Would they also go to the Arcane University? It made sense for J'Skar, as he already went to live there (there was even dialogue about it) I just gave him AI to leave the room and wander once he was no longer needed.
2. The bigger problem is dialogue. At least Roliand has no standard conversational options. A modder would have to essentially have him behave like any other imperial mage, or leave him saying "It is ill-advised for us to speak" constantly.
Neither of these is insurmountable, but they kind-of reduce the utility. J'skar was a really unique character, and his dialogue and appearance sort-of continue to reflect that after his restoration. He's even a destruction trainer. It feels expected for him to stay at the AU, while I feel like not knowing where Roliand and Arielle went is more natural.
With all of that said, I've been very busy lately, but if I do get back into modding oblivion, I'll look into restoring these two. (Of course anyone else is free to do the same, and can use this mod as a learning tool)
Note also: I'm aware that mod is no longer available. I feel they still deserve the callout however, and I have no intention of removing support for it for those who still have it.
Can you explain a little of how bash tags help and what can go wrong if they're missing? I've made the change, but I'd rather understand it fully before I try to write the changelog.
Because this mod adds packages to an NPC, it should have those tags in the description with brackets so Wrye will automatically assign them.
If they're missing then the changes of this mod might not get carried forward/get overwritten by other mods. Having them merges the changes into the bashed patch.
I can't promise I can make this mod compatible with it, but I can at least take a look.
The basic version *should* be compatible with most mods (that don't modify specific details of the Arcane University, the AU questline, or J'skar himself) in the sense that J'skar will intelligently roam around the AU, but it's *extremely* unlikely that any existing version of this mod will send him back to a reconstructed guild if it's reconstructed by a mod not listed on the main page.
Oh, and if you can not do anything about it, I would like your opinion on what is the best Bruma rebuild mod, restored or reconstructed (if you've tried both) Thanks! :)
Unfortunately that's a hornet's nest I'd rather not get involved in. Even just attempting to instal OMG for testing would apparently force me to agree to a licence that makes me uncomfortable, and its files aren't made easy to examine otherwise. As a result I cannot tell you whether it is or is not compatible even at the basic stays-at-the-AU level, which I find quite surprising and embarrassing. I apologize. If you or anyone else who has OMG installed anyway would like to test it out with the basic JR esp, I will add a note to the description, but I don't think I'm going to be able to make it any more compatible than it may or not be already. Sorry again.
Edit: Also, if anyone is interested in making these mods compatible, let me know, and I will do what I can to facilitate that.
As for which of the already compatible mods is better, It's really subjective. I have a couple nitpicks with both, but they are both quality mods as far as I'm concerned. Personally I went with BMGRestored, partly because I prefer the way its characters are mostly added to Cyrodiil from the start, rather than adding them after the destruction. If I remember correctly, BGReconstructed also adds some voiceless dialogue that irked me a bit. It's been a long time since I played through them though, so I could easily be forgetting or misremembering something.
This is exactly it. Even if they'd given him a line of dialogue like "I'm getting out of Cyrodiil. I think I'll go visit my family in Elsweyr." it wouldn't have been so bad.
Glad to see people who like J'Skar like me. It was so sad when I saw him just hiding in the corner of the room while he can't do anything to safe his guild mates, saw them died one by one from a massacre. It was just heartbreaking and scary at the same time. Since his best friend was also killed in that cursed place, he looks really lonely to me. No more friends, no more guild-leader to prank, all the good times gone. This mod made him reappear again so he is not disappear eternally like he was sucked into an Oblivion plane. Plus, luckily I have a follower mod that I can make him as a follower, to make sure that he doesn't feel lonely anymore :). So, I thank you for this mod.
Out of curiosity, are you using any other mods that affect the Bruma mages guild or the Arcane University? If so, have you found they interact smoothly with this mod?
I have his AI refer to specific things/specific cells in the AU. If those cells no longer exist, or they are changed so the references do not work, then this mod will not work with them.
Edit: By "will not work" I mean that J'skar may get lost or trapped somewhere after he would otherwise disappear, but it *should* have no effect on the mages guild quest line or anything worse than J'skar acting dopey or going missing after the quest is completed. (They may even work seamlessly, but that depends on how the other mod is implemented)
It's possible to check which mods are enabled via OBSE scripts.
Thanks for the suggestion though, I'll look into it. Any other thoughts?
Making it a single package means you will get more people using it. As for me, for example, I don't yet want to download it, because I have not yet decided if I'm gonna use some Bruma restoration mods, and if yes, which of them.
I've just found out, that I helped you on reddit previously, when you asked a question about compatibility and load order. Glad to meet you :)
The only hiccup is that *if* J'skar is already at the arcane university, you will have to manually add J'skar to the Arcane University faction, or he will be stuck there.
I will look into OBSE scripts (after all, anyone who doesn't want it can still download the old version) but it'll probably be a while, as I don't know much about it, and classes are starting to pick up again.
P.S. Thanks again for the advice on Reddit. I had a lot of trouble finding much information online, and when I gave up and asked questions, you were the only one able and willing to help. Glad to "meet" you too!
(He won't go back until "Confront the King" and the reconstruction are both completed)
See the updated description or readme for instructions if you were using the old version and already have him at the Arcane University.