hello hello, what exactly does the incompatibility with Really Textured Normal Maps mean? Since it is just one known file i was wondering if there is a way to avoid that or is it not possible to use both mods together at all? EDIT: Works just fine for me, no weird stuff so far. May seem silly but i'm leaving this here in case someone else wants to know.
hello again! :) so, I've poked around a bit with both OOOSI + SI Cities Expanded loaded in the CSE (I haven't tested it in-game yet, figured the CSE was the better option to do first so that I can see the pathgrids)! I will continue looking around for any further issues of course, but this is what I've found so far:
regarding Vitharn, I didn't notice any other big issues like the bridge, however the pathgrid becomes odd in some places. The worst of it was next to the large Sheogorath statue in cell (-1, -15), because the pathgrid goes into an abandoned house I placed there. It's not exactly a huge issue of course haha, just probably a bit annoying!
regarding Crucible, the problems are a bit more extensive, much more than I thought actually. There are a few places where I added bridges across the sewer muck, where OOOSI also added bridges across the sewer muck - which isn't a "conflict" but just looks a bit silly in places, haha! however, some of the ramps towards back part of the alley (referring to the ramps made of loose boards that allow you to travel from one level to another) are placed across entrances and pathways to houses added by my mod. The pathgrid is also made strange, which is much more problematic in Crucible than in Vitharn because I added a bunch of stuff around the "edges" of Crucible for lack of a better word, like tents and merchant stalls and the like! I'm not exactly sure what the best way to resolve this issue would be, as I'm not super knowledgeable about how to enable and disable pathgrids unfortunately!
also, unrelated to the compatibility issue, but I think I found a typo - there's an ingredient item called "Necrotic Puss" which I think is supposed to be called "Necrotic Pus" :)
I looked into it, and you are correct in that some of the issues in Crucible were too severe to ignore. I've decided to move OOOSI's Crucible edits into an optional ESP file, so that they can be disabled if the user wishes to combine OOOSI with SI Cities Expanded.
ohh that's a smart idea! I was debating whether or not to try and merge forward some of the OOOSI Crucible edits into SI Cities Expanded but couldn't figure out how to do so without basically redesigning the entire alleyway section around each other - an optional file is a much easier way to solve it, lol! Many thanks for your help making the two mods compatible! :)
greetings! :) I'm the creator of the "SI Cities Expanded" mod mentioned and I am very happy to see that the recent changelog here includes a way to increase compatibility between it and OOOSI!! I've been meaning to download OOOSI myself to see what sorts of conflicts happen in-game, but I've never played with it before (nothing against OOOSI or OOO in general of course, I just don't personally use any overhauls) and so was putting off doing so for quite a while because I anticipated it taking a very long time to figure out exactly what was wrong vs what was an intentional change. So I'm very thankful to see this update! :)
I wanted to update my own mod page's description with this news but figured I would ask first: is this bridge conflict in Vitharn the only one you found? Or were there any landscaping, pathfinding, etc problems as well? Truthfully I thought the two mods would clash TERRIBLY in Vitharn, so if this bridge conflict is the only one then I will be very surprised but also very glad, lol!
I'm afraid the bridge issue was the only one I found at a quick glance, since I didn't have time for more in-depth testing; if you're willing to have a closer look and inform me if there's anything else that would need fixing, then I would highly appreciate it.
What I can tell you is that OOOSI largely avoids making any changes to landscape, with some adjustments around Vitharn's exterior and in Crucible being the most notable exceptions.
ahh I see, fair enough! maybe I'll download it and take a look around soon then - knowing that there is at least nothing SUPER wrong (save for the bridge of course) is very helpful because it gives me a place to start, haha!
also, that is very good to know about OOOSI and it's landscaping (or lack thereof) as well! I figured that the fact Vitharn becomes a home for the player would mean a lot of landscaping involved, like adding gardens and walkways and clearing rubble and whatnot, which is why I assumed the worst regarding compatibility. But if it is indeed more like a couple of adjustments instead of a full-on redesign, then that is very promising! Thanks very much for the quick reply! :)
I use all the SI expansion mods, and I made a quick pass through Bliss & Crucible, seeing no conflicts. But I didn't go in any buildings, or to anywhere else in SI. This was just quickly installing OOO SI and going into a saved game; when I get the time, I'll start a new game and check out other locations.
FYI for anyone using this mod, load order of OOO SI is important due to it having every bash tag known to man, so it's going to take precedence over most other mods. I've got it fairly low, which is not really where I want it, but due to certain other mods such as SI Root System needing to be above it, it has to go low. It can't go next the other OOO plugins such as the original & Extended, which are somewhat high in the order by necessity, and no load order apps like BOSS or LOOT are going to get it right depending on your other mods. Both of them put it in spots that won't work correctly, particularly if you merge mods like I do. It has to be manually ordered and then tested.
Also I noticed the same problem I had last time I tried it: the MMM - OOO SI replacer esp is forced to be way out of order, since it has OOO SI as a master, so it has to go beneath OOO SI. That goes against how MMM states its esps should be ordered - they want almost all other MMM plugins to be below the MMM/SI esp - but I'm experimenting with that plugin out of order to see if everything is still okay with MMM. I suspect it should be okay down there away from the other MMM esps, but it'll take some time to make sure it's working like it should. Things like that which change creatures & leveled lists, it's hard to figure out it's working properly in any certain load slot until you happen across a ctd or other problem.
And on the topic of LOOT, if you inform Dispensation about these, ideally in the LOOT Discord where he often checks for requests, he'll implement the appropriate commits to the LOOT masterlist. I honestly wouldn't recommend using BOSS, it hasn't been updated in years.
No load order app is going to work if you have tons of mods & patches, and you merge mods together. For example I combined all of the SI Expansion mods in one esp. Also, most of the many Better Cities, HESU, and Unique Landscapes patches can be combined, using common sense as your guide. So in such cases, Boss or Loot wouldn't know they're there at all, and sort inappropriately. Therefore you have to manually order your mods, unless you're a big fan of CTDs.
Those sorting programs are basically for newbies to have a general idea of how mods are ordered, and Boss is by far the most reliable for those people who use lots of older mods. Loot is a mess, it makes some overly radical changes to the standarized Boss orders (such as where DLCs go) and the one time I let it sort my mods, it wrecked my order to such a laughable state that the game wouldn't even start. It's only good for the additional data it provides, if you need that for some certain mod, such as known conflicts and bash tags. So swearing by either Boss or Loot is silly, since you're going to encounter mods like OOO SI that have every bash tag and various patches that force it to be out of order from where those programs try to put it.
Oblivion is like anything else in life: there's no magic program that puts everything in perfect working order; you only use those when you first start out, then you have to use trial & error to get hundreds of mods working together. I've had to comb through posts for years to get info on where certain mods are best placed, from people who actually use the mods, instead of somebody just throwing it into a sorting program because it looks like it might work in some slot where similar mods are, when it's actually not even close to where it needs to go.
:') aw, thank you for the kind words!! I'm honored!! It's always been my dream to have my mods be confirmed compatible with OOOSI, since it's such a popular and well-liked mod - but of course it is also a complex and large mod, being an overhaul and all, so it always felt like a bit of a pipe dream. Knowing now that at least the worst of it (in Vitharn) has been dealt with makes it seem a lot more manageable haha!
Incorrect, LOOT's masterlist has already covered HESU, Better Cities, and Unique Landscapes. Frankly, I don't see the reason in merging all those mods into one .esp. The bashed patch with the current state of the LOOT masterlist and the Oblivion modding scene's use of the bash tagging system already deactivates several plugins into your bashed patch, saving you several slots anyways. Not to mention that HESU, Better Cities, and Unique Landscapes aren't particularly appealing mods these days due to how poorly they tend to run, and how overly moddy they look. Also, all three of these mods hamper stability one way or another, even recent updates to this very day for Better Cities have to address crashes based on really dumb things,changelogs say so(especially if you use everything in them) Better Cities author can only do so much to fix a mega compilation mod from 2008 that had a poor foundation to begin with. No intended disrespect to people like Vorian of course, they have done their best in maintaining those mods to the best of their abilities. Also LOOT is used more than just for mod sorting, it is also used to supply bash tags to the user, which is how the Oblivion modding scene has such effective bashed patches and why it is often recommended to use it. I'm afraid you are misinformed and haven't taken a look at the commits of the LOOT masterlist at all. BOSS's masterlist hasn't been updated in three years, so you lumping in BOSS with LOOT doesn't make much sense. A lot of older Oblivion mods are poorly made anyways, so BOSS has even less reason to be used, and anything relevant to the Oblivion modding scene throughout its history old and new has already been implemented into LOOT's masterlist, even that severely bloated FCOM mod is in there at this point, lol. Nobody has ever said that you should blindly trust LOOT sorting, you should at least take a look at xEdit to be positive that the order was correct after you generated the bashed patch. I even know how to manually apply tags myself, which is what I do for Fallout NV when generating my own bashed patch. Regardless, LOOT is an undeniably essential tool in Oblivion's modding scene. Next time before you make simply untrue statements, do try to better inform yourself.
And as for you callisto, yeah, it's pretty sweet seeing both mods being more compatible now. aaa is an excellent modder, and I'm totally gonna install both of your mods next playthrough in my Oblivion.
After installing, my character rises in the air while walking, then falls to the ground when I stop. Seems to be auto-jumping with every step. I'm thinking maybe this mod might change some enchantments that are affecting something I have equipped, or maybe a new game needs to be started, I don't know. Haven't seen an issue like this in several years.
I've had something like this happen as an interaction between Hud Status Bar Enhanced and the climbing feature of Maskar's Oblivion Overhaul; you keep climbing invisible steps if moving slowly with a weapon durability bar showing. There's a post with more information about the bug from another user here: https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/2360504-hud-status-bars-enhanced/page-7#entry26056139.
This might be something completely different, but I haven't been able to reproduce the bug with just this mod installed.
Good idea, the climb function has caused me similar issues in the past - MOO's, and also AOG's. Since it's been turned on in both mods' inis and working fine for years, I assume that function doesn't get along with OOO SI. I'll turn climb off & try again.
I'm using the climb mod as well (separated from MOO), and I didn't experience such an issue. Could it be that MOO's implementation of climb has the issue?
I just tried it. Vrugdush is a genius. It's MOO's player climb that caused the issue for me; leaving the npc climb on is not a problem. I turned off player climb and everything's fine now.
Excellent mod, but could you do something about the empty seas and rivers of the SI? Also, like OOO in Cyrodiil, can you add guards on SI roads? They are very dangerous with this mod.
It is strongly suggested to at least level up to 10-20 range before going in, since certain boss encounters, like the Gatekeeper, were buffed and are no longer level-scaled, meaning that you always get the strongest version.
This conflicts with Weapon Expansion Pack for Oblivion Nthusiasts because both mods change the dialogue for the armor/weapon crafting smiths in the shivering isles. With Weapon Expansion Pack active, and loading beneath OOO Shivering Isles, Dumag is missing the choice for magic battle axe from this mod
Using TES4Edit to copy the dialogue containing the choices from whatever mod has the weapon I'm trying to craft, down to a mod lower in the load order than either of the conflicting mods. Then just doing the same thing when trying to switch back to the other mod's craft list. Pretty simple fix, just kinda sucks that the dialogue choices can't all show up at the same time
I'm not getting the quest "A door in the niben bay" or the related conversation topic. I have played for several in game days. Is something wrong or is the quest delayed somehow with this mod?
The notification about the rumor was removed, since it was contributing to the message spam when leaving the sewers, was adding a quest to your log that could unnecessarily linger there for long periods of time (depending on when you decide to play the DLC), and was largely unnecessary anyway, since anyone who played the game before already knows where to find the door.
Awesome, makes perfect sense. It's actually my first time playing SI (have had it installed before but never got there before my restartitis got too bad), so I'm not 100% sure what is "normal".
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EDIT: Works just fine for me, no weird stuff so far. May seem silly but i'm leaving this here in case someone else wants to know.
regarding Vitharn, I didn't notice any other big issues like the bridge, however the pathgrid becomes odd in some places. The worst of it was next to the large Sheogorath statue in cell (-1, -15), because the pathgrid goes into an abandoned house I placed there. It's not exactly a huge issue of course haha, just probably a bit annoying!
regarding Crucible, the problems are a bit more extensive, much more than I thought actually. There are a few places where I added bridges across the sewer muck, where OOOSI also added bridges across the sewer muck - which isn't a "conflict" but just looks a bit silly in places, haha! however, some of the ramps towards back part of the alley (referring to the ramps made of loose boards that allow you to travel from one level to another) are placed across entrances and pathways to houses added by my mod. The pathgrid is also made strange, which is much more problematic in Crucible than in Vitharn because I added a bunch of stuff around the "edges" of Crucible for lack of a better word, like tents and merchant stalls and the like! I'm not exactly sure what the best way to resolve this issue would be, as I'm not super knowledgeable about how to enable and disable pathgrids unfortunately!
also, unrelated to the compatibility issue, but I think I found a typo - there's an ingredient item called "Necrotic Puss" which I think is supposed to be called "Necrotic Pus" :)
I looked into it, and you are correct in that some of the issues in Crucible were too severe to ignore. I've decided to move OOOSI's Crucible edits into an optional ESP file, so that they can be disabled if the user wishes to combine OOOSI with SI Cities Expanded.
And thanks for pointing out the typo.
Kudos & endorsements, have a great weekend.
I wanted to update my own mod page's description with this news but figured I would ask first: is this bridge conflict in Vitharn the only one you found? Or were there any landscaping, pathfinding, etc problems as well? Truthfully I thought the two mods would clash TERRIBLY in Vitharn, so if this bridge conflict is the only one then I will be very surprised but also very glad, lol!
I'm afraid the bridge issue was the only one I found at a quick glance, since I didn't have time for more in-depth testing; if you're willing to have a closer look and inform me if there's anything else that would need fixing, then I would highly appreciate it.
What I can tell you is that OOOSI largely avoids making any changes to landscape, with some adjustments around Vitharn's exterior and in Crucible being the most notable exceptions.
also, that is very good to know about OOOSI and it's landscaping (or lack thereof) as well! I figured that the fact Vitharn becomes a home for the player would mean a lot of landscaping involved, like adding gardens and walkways and clearing rubble and whatnot, which is why I assumed the worst regarding compatibility. But if it is indeed more like a couple of adjustments instead of a full-on redesign, then that is very promising! Thanks very much for the quick reply! :)
FYI for anyone using this mod, load order of OOO SI is important due to it having every bash tag known to man, so it's going to take precedence over most other mods. I've got it fairly low, which is not really where I want it, but due to certain other mods such as SI Root System needing to be above it, it has to go low. It can't go next the other OOO plugins such as the original & Extended, which are somewhat high in the order by necessity, and no load order apps like BOSS or LOOT are going to get it right depending on your other mods. Both of them put it in spots that won't work correctly, particularly if you merge mods like I do. It has to be manually ordered and then tested.
Also I noticed the same problem I had last time I tried it: the MMM - OOO SI replacer esp is forced to be way out of order, since it has OOO SI as a master, so it has to go beneath OOO SI. That goes against how MMM states its esps should be ordered - they want almost all other MMM plugins to be below the MMM/SI esp - but I'm experimenting with that plugin out of order to see if everything is still okay with MMM. I suspect it should be okay down there away from the other MMM esps, but it'll take some time to make sure it's working like it should. Things like that which change creatures & leveled lists, it's hard to figure out it's working properly in any certain load slot until you happen across a ctd or other problem.
the appropriate commits to the LOOT masterlist.
I honestly wouldn't recommend using BOSS, it hasn't been updated in years.
Those sorting programs are basically for newbies to have a general idea of how mods are ordered, and Boss is by far the most reliable for those people who use lots of older mods. Loot is a mess, it makes some overly radical changes to the standarized Boss orders (such as where DLCs go) and the one time I let it sort my mods, it wrecked my order to such a laughable state that the game wouldn't even start. It's only good for the additional data it provides, if you need that for some certain mod, such as known conflicts and bash tags. So swearing by either Boss or Loot is silly, since you're going to encounter mods like OOO SI that have every bash tag and various patches that force it to be out of order from where those programs try to put it.
Oblivion is like anything else in life: there's no magic program that puts everything in perfect working order; you only use those when you first start out, then you have to use trial & error to get hundreds of mods working together. I've had to comb through posts for years to get info on where certain mods are best placed, from people who actually use the mods, instead of somebody just throwing it into a sorting program because it looks like it might work in some slot where similar mods are, when it's actually not even close to where it needs to go.
Frankly, I don't see the reason in merging all those mods into one .esp. The bashed patch with the current state of the LOOT masterlist and the Oblivion modding scene's use of the bash tagging system already deactivates several plugins into your bashed patch, saving you several slots anyways.
Not to mention that HESU, Better Cities, and Unique Landscapes aren't particularly appealing mods these days due to how poorly they tend to run, and how overly moddy they look. Also, all three of these mods hamper stability one way or another, even recent updates to this very day for Better Cities have to address crashes based on really dumb things,changelogs say so(especially if you use everything in them) Better Cities author can only do so much to fix a mega compilation mod from 2008 that had a poor foundation to begin with.
No intended disrespect to people like Vorian of course, they have done their best in maintaining those mods to the best of their abilities.
Also LOOT is used more than just for mod sorting, it is also used to supply bash tags to the user, which is how the Oblivion modding scene has such effective bashed patches and why it is often recommended to use it.
I'm afraid you are misinformed and haven't taken a look at the commits of the LOOT masterlist at all.
BOSS's masterlist hasn't been updated in three years, so you lumping in BOSS with LOOT doesn't make much sense.
A lot of older Oblivion mods are poorly made anyways, so BOSS has even less reason to be used, and anything relevant to the Oblivion modding scene throughout its history old and new has already been implemented into LOOT's masterlist, even that severely bloated FCOM mod is in there at this point, lol.
Nobody has ever said that you should blindly trust LOOT sorting, you should at least take a look at xEdit to be positive that the order was correct after you generated the bashed patch.
I even know how to manually apply tags myself, which is what I do for Fallout NV when generating my own bashed patch.
Regardless, LOOT is an undeniably essential tool in Oblivion's modding scene.
Next time before you make simply untrue statements, do try to better inform yourself.
aaa is an excellent modder, and I'm totally gonna install both of your mods next playthrough in my Oblivion.
This might be something completely different, but I haven't been able to reproduce the bug with just this mod installed.
Using TES4Edit to copy the dialogue containing the choices from whatever mod has the weapon I'm trying to craft, down to a mod lower in the load order than either of the conflicting mods. Then just doing the same thing when trying to switch back to the other mod's craft list. Pretty simple fix, just kinda sucks that the dialogue choices can't all show up at the same time