This mod is not compatible with DLC delayer mods, because it takes it upon itself to start the DLCs on its own. The reason it does this is because the unofficially-patched DLCs include a check that the DLC should not start until the initial vanilla dungeon/tutorial is completed. They do this by checking to make sure the CharacterGen quest is at least Stage 88, when you leave the sewers. However, PrinceShroob's mod basically extends the CharacterGen quest indefinitely until you complete that portion of the main quest, which you can do whenever you want, or never. I'm currently Level 20 and only at CharacterGen Stage 6. That's why Shroob force-starts the DLCs.
Unfortunately, this makes it incompatible with DLC delayer mods which try to have their own DLC start conditions.
I found where Shroob does this. It's in the PSCharacterGenStartingEquipment quest script. I tried to edit those portions out, but when I try to compile the script, I get the error that the max script length is exceeded. I've never seen that before and don't know how to fix it. Any help?
Shroob appears to have anticipated this problem. In that same PSCharacterGenStartingEquipment script, there is a check:
(IsModLoaded "Oblivion DLC Delayers.esp" == 1)
And if true, it bypasses the force-starting of all the DLCs. However, that mod by Arthmoor is not actually supposed to be "loaded." It's supposed to be merged into the bashed patch in Wrye Bash. So, I'm not so sure the IsModLoaded check would even return true.
Incidentally, Arthmoor's DLC delayer mod also checks to see if the CharacterGen quest is at Stage 88, and if not, it doesn't start the DLCs.
Edit / Update:
I appear to have solved the problem, at least for this mod vs. Arthmoor's Oblivion DLC Delayers. It's not a simple thing, though.
First, I edited PrinceShroob's PSCharacterGenStartingEquipment quest script to bypass all the DLC force-starts with a variable I set in the script. Also, because of the weird "max script length" error, I offloaded part of that script to a new supplemental quest script. This is a bit of a crude fix.
Then I changed Arthmoor's mod. This was not straightforward. Because Oblivion DLC Delayers uses other esp files as masters, I needed to use Wrye Bash's function to tag the master ESPs as ESMs before I could edit his mod. Then once I did that, I deleted the CharacterGen Stage 88 checks from the DLC scripts. This was for Mehrune's Razor, Horse Armor, Orrery, Vile Lair, Thieves Den, Battlehorn Castle, and Frostcrag Spire. I didn't edit anything having to do with Shivering Isles, Knights of the Nine, or Spell Tomes (don't know if I needed to). Then once saved, I removed the ESM tags from the master ESPs to restore them to normal (this is important). And then rebuilt the Bashed Patch, with Oblivion DLC Delayers being merged and scripts imported as designed.
Here's a link if you want to try it. Scroll down to "ESP Mastering."
I only gave it a short test, and the fixes seem to work. The DLCs don't spam you either before or after Shroob's character gen ship. Then I fast traveled over to the Arcane University and Merchants Inn and was able to see the Orrery and Horse Armor notes added by Arthmoor and could start those DLCs as he intended with his mod. This worked with a new character and an existing level 20 character.
If you try the above at your own risk, I strongly suggest you back up Shroob's and Arthmoor's esp files, and keep a savegame from before you monkeyed with the mods. I haven't loaded any other DLC delayers to see what would need to change with those (if anything) to work with this mod.
OR ... just don't load the DLC in your game until after the tutorial aspect of this mod. Do that get situated with wherever you start from. Then exit and load the DLC, load your favorite delayer, then rebash your patch. etc.
That is what worked for me. It is superstition to think all esp your are going to use in your playthrough HAVE to be there from the beginning.
Dropping in after my wall-of-text below to say I think this mod is fantastic and extremely well done. The attention to detail is great, considering the things that need to be handled, like Valen Dreth, what happens if you go to Kvatch before the main quest, what's the emperor doing, and even remembering poor Slythe Seringi. Awhile back I was walking around the IC and stumbled onto the emperor and his guard headed to the palace. So cool to see him alive and going about his business. Thank you so much for making and sharing this!
I am having issues... I've played for several hours doing the Mages Guild line, I have Kvatch Rebuilt, UESP Unofficial Patch and Toggleable Quantity Prompt. I have only done the Mages Guild line and a few side quests (no "Scheduled for Execution"). Auden approaches me in Jensine's shop, arrests me and I just go to normal jail. I've tried disabling various mods but I still just get thrown in the standard cell. Same thing happens if I commit a crime and try to get arrested normally.
Any advice? I would really like the option to do the main quest at some point, when I feel like it.
I also heard a couple people talk about the Emperor's death, although I haven't in a while in playing - maybe because I tried fixing the load order. I've had a few crashes too, but it's sporadic enough it's not too concerning, for the most part the game has run smoothly enough to play for a long time.
edit: Dangitall.. it would appear this is just an issue with my save, I probably did something wrong when I first set it up. Starting a new game, getting arrested gets me thrown into the cell across from Valen.
UPDATE ... here is an easy work around for the issue of DLC Delayers.
To review. This mod delays the DLC but then dumps them on you again after tutorial, So loading a delayer won't work ... especially SM, Arthmoor, and a few others I tried.
Simply don't load DLC at he start of the game, Do the tutorial. Make a save then add in all the mods that are DLC and dependent and also add whatever flavor of delayer you like at the same time. Not ideal, but a workable solution.Most of the DLC and reliant mods aren't the kind that need to be in place for this mod. Though it may be worth noting that some other essential mods that you may need loaded at the beginning so you'd want to watch out for that.
sorry for being critical before, I now look forward to exploring more about this mod. Thank you!
My recommended alt-start mod! It's fairly easy to get to work with DLC delayers if you're comfortable with the construction set. I got it to work perfectly with Oblivion DLC Delayers by deleting the main quest journal check in DLC Delayers scripts (not needed at all, especially with this mod), and commenting out the DLC starts in this mod. Now works great, and no more pop-ups!
I made some personal edits with the starting equipment and conditions, like changing the time to night if you pick starting as a vampire, for instance. Also made the skills that originally didn't have any equipment contribute in a way (like mercantile & speechcraft gives more starting gold, etc.)
Have you ever considered making a version of this that works with Morroblivion? It would be great to have at least a Morroblivion compatibility patch that lets the players start in Senya Nede.
Well I realize this mod hasn't been updated for 7+ years ... but I see Prince you have been active on the website.
I gotta put my vote in .. I know you weren't asking .. for this to not touch the DLC. Arthmoor just updated his DLC delayer and as someone with a brown belt or better in wrye bash ...I can say it is the most preferable version and it is the best option out there.
On another note .. it is highly ironic that one of the best mods for delaying the main quest is also the mod that ruins other mods that delay the other official quests DLC. Of what value is having the DLC announcements even delayed at all? What does that do for the 3-5 minutes you spend on the ship? I still have a calvacade of other mods that initialize with a new game as well. those are minor by comparison. There are other mods that handle that well. let them.
=========
If I may be so bold as to outline what I think are the essentials of main quest delaying. It is really linked to the notion of no main quest. that is what I want out of your mod really, I want the emperor alive, kvatch not invaded, and no main quest impending - anything. Anything short of those goals is half measures in my book ... and that is OK if each partial measure can be used with other mods that do cover the other parts.
So in relation ... Kvatch Rebuilt is the only mod I'm aware of that provides a city pre-invasion. It is the defacto go to ... if you don't want to see the main quest at all. My avatar may be new here but I've been around and have lots of experience with examining this scope of this in mods. Your mod comes so close if only it worked better with regard to the other DLC.
I realize you may have already been hipped to this, but KR wasn't made to be compatible with other mods but Arthmoor does include a patch for using his alternative beginnings with KR so to have the emperor alive if you also have kvatch rebuilt. So far that is the only mod combo that I know works in completely removing the main quest from ever being shoved in your face and you can play as long as you want until you activate the main quest by finding and delivering the amulet.
where your mod seems superior is in utilizing all the drama of the original tutorial and I realize older mods too, but it seems here the emperor is someone that you could encounter and is alive with schedules and what not. I'm not sure how that compares with Arthmoor's version.
I love your mod! It's the best. It is however incompatible with Weather - All Natural. The only conflict with this mod is with the entrance of the Imperial Palace. The roof is lowered down and the outside sky is showing.
But otherwise I simply must use this mod each play through
I've tried this mod with no other mods except Weather - All Natural and I always see the roof of the entrance of the Imperial Palace too low. It's a conflict because the mod makes changes to the Imperial Palace 1st floor by adding the Emperor on a throne in the Elder Council. I know this because Living Imperial Palace mod has the exact same conflict with Weather - All Natural.
Edit: Conflict is fixed with Bash Tags for Mods. Seems I was supposed to use that in the first place if I listened to the Requirements of this mod :P
Picture here? I have had a very weird bug with this mod where (on my set up, when loaded by itself the mod seems fine) if I have a female pc, in first person mode, my hand textures are all mismatched. Strangely enough, the issue seems to be the wrist irons not being equipped initially. I'm going to make a small mod that adds wrist irons to one of the containers because as soon as I equip those and take them off, it's totally fine. I have no idea why it's doing this, but in case anyone has this issue, the fix is pretty easy. Just console the wrist irons in, equip them, and then throw 'em away.
PrinceShroob: YOU ARE A GODDAMN GENIOUS!! I don't know how did you create this mod, but it is exelent. There are no rumors about the emperor which is amazing. If only Bethesda hired people like you!
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Unfortunately, this makes it incompatible with DLC delayer mods which try to have their own DLC start conditions.
I found where Shroob does this. It's in the PSCharacterGenStartingEquipment quest script. I tried to edit those portions out, but when I try to compile the script, I get the error that the max script length is exceeded. I've never seen that before and don't know how to fix it. Any help?
Shroob appears to have anticipated this problem. In that same PSCharacterGenStartingEquipment script, there is a check:
(IsModLoaded "Oblivion DLC Delayers.esp" == 1)
And if true, it bypasses the force-starting of all the DLCs. However, that mod by Arthmoor is not actually supposed to be "loaded." It's supposed
to be merged into the bashed patch in Wrye Bash. So, I'm not so sure the IsModLoaded check would even return true.
Incidentally, Arthmoor's DLC delayer mod also checks to see if the CharacterGen quest is at Stage 88, and if not, it doesn't start the DLCs.
Edit / Update:
I appear to have solved the problem, at least for this mod vs. Arthmoor's Oblivion DLC Delayers. It's not a simple thing, though.
First, I edited PrinceShroob's PSCharacterGenStartingEquipment quest script to bypass all the DLC force-starts with a variable I set in the script. Also, because of the weird "max script length" error, I offloaded part of that script to a new supplemental quest script. This is a bit of a crude fix.
Then I changed Arthmoor's mod. This was not straightforward. Because Oblivion DLC Delayers uses other esp files as masters, I needed to use Wrye Bash's function to tag the master ESPs as ESMs before I could edit his mod. Then once I did that, I deleted the CharacterGen Stage 88 checks from the DLC scripts. This was for Mehrune's Razor, Horse Armor, Orrery, Vile Lair, Thieves Den, Battlehorn Castle, and Frostcrag Spire. I didn't edit anything having to do with Shivering Isles, Knights of the Nine, or Spell Tomes (don't know if I needed to). Then once saved, I removed the ESM tags from the master ESPs to restore them to normal (this is important). And then rebuilt the Bashed Patch, with Oblivion DLC Delayers being merged and scripts imported as designed.
Here's a link if you want to try it. Scroll down to "ESP Mastering."
I only gave it a short test, and the fixes seem to work. The DLCs don't spam you either before or after Shroob's character gen ship. Then I fast traveled over to the Arcane University and Merchants Inn and was able to see the Orrery and Horse Armor notes added by Arthmoor and could start those DLCs as he intended with his mod. This worked with a new character and an existing level 20 character.
If you try the above at your own risk, I strongly suggest you back up Shroob's and Arthmoor's esp files, and keep a savegame from before you monkeyed with the mods. I haven't loaded any other DLC delayers to see what would need to change with those (if anything) to work with this mod.
That is what worked for me. It is superstition to think all esp your are going to use in your playthrough HAVE to be there from the beginning.
Any advice? I would really like the option to do the main quest at some point, when I feel like it.
I also heard a couple people talk about the Emperor's death, although I haven't in a while in playing - maybe because I tried fixing the load order. I've had a few crashes too, but it's sporadic enough it's not too concerning, for the most part the game has run smoothly enough to play for a long time.
edit: Dangitall.. it would appear this is just an issue with my save, I probably did something wrong when I first set it up. Starting a new game, getting arrested gets me thrown into the cell across from Valen.
To review. This mod delays the DLC but then dumps them on you again after
tutorial, So loading a delayer won't work ... especially SM, Arthmoor,
and a few others I tried.
Simply don't load DLC at he start of the game, Do the tutorial. Make a save then add in all the mods that are
DLC and dependent and also add whatever flavor of delayer you like at the same time. Not ideal, but a workable solution.Most of the DLC and reliant mods aren't the kind that need to be in place for this mod. Though it may be worth noting that some other essential mods that you may need loaded at the beginning so you'd want to watch out for that.
sorry for being critical before, I now look forward to exploring more about this mod. Thank you!
I made some personal edits with the starting equipment and conditions, like changing the time to night if you pick starting as a vampire, for instance. Also made the skills that originally didn't have any equipment contribute in a way (like mercantile & speechcraft gives more starting gold, etc.)
I gotta put my vote in .. I know you weren't asking .. for this to not touch the DLC. Arthmoor just updated his DLC delayer and as someone with a brown belt or better in wrye bash ...I can say it is the most preferable version and it is the best option out there.
On another note .. it is highly ironic that one of the best mods for delaying the main quest is also the mod that ruins other mods that delay the other official quests DLC. Of what value is having the DLC announcements even delayed at all? What does that do for the 3-5 minutes you spend on the ship? I still have a calvacade of other mods that initialize with a new game as well. those are minor by comparison. There are other mods that handle that well. let them.
=========
If I may be so bold as to outline what I think are the essentials of main quest delaying. It is really linked to the notion of no main quest. that is what I want out of your mod really, I want the emperor alive, kvatch not invaded, and no main quest impending - anything. Anything short of those goals is half measures in my book ... and that is OK if each partial measure can be used with other mods that do cover the other parts.
So in relation ... Kvatch Rebuilt is the only mod I'm aware of that provides a city pre-invasion. It is the defacto go to ... if you don't want to see the main quest at all. My avatar may be new here but I've been around and have lots of experience with examining this scope of this in mods. Your mod comes so close if only it worked better with regard to the other DLC.
I realize you may have already been hipped to this, but KR wasn't made to be compatible with other mods but Arthmoor does include a patch for using his alternative beginnings with KR so to have the emperor alive if you also have kvatch rebuilt. So far that is the only mod combo that I know works in completely removing the main quest from ever being shoved in your face and you can play as long as you want until you activate the main quest by finding and delivering the amulet.
where your mod seems superior is in utilizing all the drama of the original tutorial and I realize older mods too, but it seems here the emperor is someone that you could encounter and is alive with schedules and what not. I'm not sure how that compares with Arthmoor's version.
thanks for reading and considering
But otherwise I simply must use this mod each play through
Edit: Conflict is fixed with Bash Tags for Mods. Seems I was supposed to use that in the first place if I listened to the Requirements of this mod :P
I have had a very weird bug with this mod where (on my set up, when loaded by itself the mod seems fine) if I have a female pc, in first person mode, my hand textures are all mismatched. Strangely enough, the issue seems to be the wrist irons not being equipped initially. I'm going to make a small mod that adds wrist irons to one of the containers because as soon as I equip those and take them off, it's totally fine. I have no idea why it's doing this, but in case anyone has this issue, the fix is pretty easy. Just console the wrist irons in, equip them, and then throw 'em away.