Pointing out to the benefit of others, that if anyone uses Charisma Tweaks (NVSE) with the .ini preset of that mod, it makes this mod redundant, and vice-versa.
So i guess use one of these mods, not both. (According to the latest Wasteland Survival Guide modding guide's changelog)
Yes, Charisma Tweaks (NVSE) with activated reputation mode is incompatible, but it does not make this mod redundant.
Charisma Tweaks does not have the balancing or the various INI settings. The baseline is also 5 CHA instead of 6 CHA by default, and cannot be changed. It also does not allow for 11 CHA by getting the implant, and the Charisma mode is fixed to allow all effects.
Indeed. You will have to collect all the scrap metal and missiles you can!
Same goes for the Followers of the Apocalypse, by the way. You will need to scrounge around for as many doses of Fixer, Med-X, and RadAway as possible. And make sure you donate in bunches of three, the Vanilla script gives a bit more fame for that.
To get their quest to progress i had to turn in 563 metal scraps and all their quests. Dude... i do dig the mod and use it but holy moly that wasn't fun at all. To get a laugh, after i did all this hastle i discovered the ini to configure the mod... Can you put a warning about that for the ADHD folks? lol "Warning this makes quests that relies on reputation to be harder, example: VOLARE!"
I took a look at that particular collection quest, because even with a 0.1 multiplier that amount of scrap metal seemed way to high to me. And it turns out that there is in fact a small issue with the quest, since the Vanilla script gives varying amounts of fame depending on how many pieces of scrap metal you turn in at once:
For 1, 2, and 4 scrap metal turned in it gives the same amount in fame. But if you have more scrap metal than that you can select "just take all of it" and you will get slightly different amounts of fame:
7 Fame for 5-7 scrap metal (at most 1.4 fame per scrap metal at 5 scrap metals)
12 Fame for 8-12 scrap metal (1.5 fame per scrap metal max)
16 Fame for 13-15 scrap metal (1.23 f/sm max)
19 Fame for 16-19 scrap metal (1.19 f/sm max)
24 Fame for 20-24 scrap metal (1.2 f/sm max)
28 Fame for 25-29 scrap metal (1.12 f/sm max)
36 Fame for 30-36 scrap metal (1.2 f/sm max)
48 Fame for 37-48 scrap metal (1.3 f/sm max)
And now here is the worst part:60 fame if you have 49 or more scrap metal in your possession. So even if you turn in 100 or even 200 scrap metal at the same you will still only get 60 fame.
In Vanilla, the shoddy way in which this quest is scripted did not matter, because the Boomers maximum reputation value is 50, which meant a large donation would get you to Idolized immediately. With the mod however, even at the baseline Charisma multiplier, you would need to turn in about 336 scrap metal in batches of eight in order to go from Neutral to Idolized.
For the next version, I will include a fix to this script, and I will also take a look at the other collection quests and their scripts.
Why would not being charismatic make it easier for people to hate you? If anything being MORE charismatic would make it easier to be hated. Think about it: there's a great guy with lots of charm and everyone laughs when he makes a joke, then suddenly he steals all your belongings and kills your chickens bc he's hungry. How much stronger would your emotions be than if he was a guy who barely said a word that you didn't notice as much as a result? You'd feel more betrayed and emotional. Lack of charisma is a lack of charm/personality, i.e. it would be harder to gain both friends & enemies. It makes you a lone wolf; neutral. Also, if you're a subdued person yet you do great things for others, if anything that makes you even more of a likeable person/hero because people see you as more humble. Just look at Master Chief.
Charisma <5 means "negative" or below what is considered "average" for a human. By reading the titles associated with each charsima score, then it makes complete sense that being less charismatic would make things more difficult for the courier. The lower the charisma, the more likely it is that others dislike, scorn or outright hate you.
I partially agree with this. An alternative mode where charisma affects fame/infamy gain equally could be interesting. So low charisma characters have hard time becoming famous or infamous, and subsequently high charisma characters can quickly become either.
Honestly, I find the ease with which you can get Idolized by the Brotherhood of Steel just for selling them a surplus of energy weapons fascinating. They were all but slowly dying of attrition in a hole in the ground until the courier showed up and decided to help (even after possibly getting a bomb collar put on them just to do an errand). They've been beaten down so low and ground to so few that they're probably just ecstatic that this outsider fell from the sky one day and started singlehandedly overstocking their armory.
I agree, Better Brotherhood definitely needs a balance update. Especially since the condition of the items you sell is not taken into account. Selling low condition laser and plasma rifles you loot from Fiends or similar weak enemies is a good way to quickly get idolized with hardly any real effort.
What is worse, is that it is also very easy to abuse due to that fact, as low-condition items cost next to nothing but can be sold, bought back, and then re-sold multiple times for a handful of caps each.
I think a much better alternative would be either a return of items through dialogue, like the Outcast Collection Agent quest in Fallout 3, or a container in which you can place the items.
No, Better Brotherhood is definitely a must-have mod for me. Maybe you should raise the issue in the Better Brotherhood comments, or suggest a change from selling to placing in a container, I do not think such a thing would be hard to implement.
I honestly have not done a complete play-through yet. I was planning on starting one soon, and was thinking of setting the Caesar's legion multiplier to 0.5 since I found a butt-load of NCR dogtags simply by running around and taking them off dead NCR soldiers without ever getting involved in the fights. Granted, I usually run around a lot and not do any fast-travelling, so maybe you should account for that if you have fast-travel enabled.
And you don't want to change the NCR multiplier, since returning NCR dogtags to the quartermaster at Camp Forlorn Hope does not reward NCR fame, despite what the wiki says.
As for the Brotherhood, I think maybe 0.8 or even 0.9 is enough, since only some of the scouts actually carry the holotags, and once you've progressed the Brotherhood quests that they are out in full force, the troops in Power Armor hardly ever die.
Having done a complete VNV+ play-through now, here are the values I recommend:
fRepNVBrotherhood = 0.4 That is about half the current version's multiplier. I returned eight BoS holotags, and I sold a few restricted items (Power Armor is best) to Knight Torres and I am close to being idolized. Stopping the launch of the missiles at the end of Lonesome Road gives a large reputation increase, so maybe 0.3 is warranted, or even 0.2 since that would require collecting and selling lots of restricted items.
Truth be told, I am not that happy about the options to sell restricted items, because you can abuse it by buying and selling low-quality weapons and armor, plus you get three full sets from the three patrols already, which even with a 0.2 multiplier would net you almost 25% BoS reputation. Lots of fiends have laser or plasma weapons, so you can have a steady supply there as well.
fRepNVCaesarsLegion = 0.4 Playing with TLD means many more fights between NCR and Caesar's Legion, resulting in a lot more NCR dogtags available for collection. Playing with the Tweaks option "Fast Travel Requires Nuka Cola" means a lot of running around and actually witnessing a lot of these fights.
I thought I recognized your username. I used to use your Outcast Collection Agent Expanded mod way back when.
I guess someone decided to come back from the dead, huh? 😊
Whatever the case, I'm curious to see how this will impact my game. Like other commenters I've seen and tried several mods over the years that have attempted to tie charisma to the reputation system with varying degrees of success. From what I've read so far, this one seems better thought out than the others, and it definitely has the best technical implementation.
Oh wow, that was such a long time ago! Makes me really happy that you remember, and I hope this mod gives you just as much joy!
With all these great script extender resources it is so much easier to put something together than it was back then, or at least that it how it seems to me.
33 comments
So i guess use one of these mods, not both. (According to the latest Wasteland Survival Guide modding guide's changelog)
Charisma Tweaks does not have the balancing or the various INI settings. The baseline is also 5 CHA instead of 6 CHA by default, and cannot be changed. It also does not allow for 11 CHA by getting the implant, and the Charisma mode is fixed to allow all effects.
Same goes for the Followers of the Apocalypse, by the way. You will need to scrounge around for as many doses of Fixer, Med-X, and RadAway as possible. And make sure you donate in bunches of three, the Vanilla script gives a bit more fame for that.
For 1, 2, and 4 scrap metal turned in it gives the same amount in fame. But if you have more scrap metal than that you can select "just take all of it" and you will get slightly different amounts of fame:
And now here is the worst part:60 fame if you have 49 or more scrap metal in your possession. So even if you turn in 100 or even 200 scrap metal at the same you will still only get 60 fame.
In Vanilla, the shoddy way in which this quest is scripted did not matter, because the Boomers maximum reputation value is 50, which meant a large donation would get you to Idolized immediately. With the mod however, even at the baseline Charisma multiplier, you would need to turn in about 336 scrap metal in batches of eight in order to go from Neutral to Idolized.
For the next version, I will include a fix to this script, and I will also take a look at the other collection quests and their scripts.
Peevish Librarian (4)
Creepy Undertaker (3)
Old Hermit (2)
Misanthrope (1)
To check that the mod is working correctly, enable the debug mode and it will print all recognized factions and their multipliers at startup.
What is worse, is that it is also very easy to abuse due to that fact, as low-condition items cost next to nothing but can be sold, bought back, and then re-sold multiple times for a handful of caps each.
I think a much better alternative would be either a return of items through dialogue, like the Outcast Collection Agent quest in Fallout 3, or a container in which you can place the items.
And you don't want to change the NCR multiplier, since returning NCR dogtags to the quartermaster at Camp Forlorn Hope does not reward NCR fame, despite what the wiki says.
As for the Brotherhood, I think maybe 0.8 or even 0.9 is enough, since only some of the scouts actually carry the holotags, and once you've progressed the Brotherhood quests that they are out in full force, the troops in Power Armor hardly ever die.
That is about half the current version's multiplier. I returned eight BoS holotags, and I sold a few restricted items (Power Armor is best) to Knight Torres and I am close to being idolized. Stopping the launch of the missiles at the end of Lonesome Road gives a large reputation increase, so maybe 0.3 is warranted, or even 0.2 since that would require collecting and selling lots of restricted items.
Truth be told, I am not that happy about the options to sell restricted items, because you can abuse it by buying and selling low-quality weapons and armor, plus you get three full sets from the three patrols already, which even with a 0.2 multiplier would net you almost 25% BoS reputation. Lots of fiends have laser or plasma weapons, so you can have a steady supply there as well.
Playing with TLD means many more fights between NCR and Caesar's Legion, resulting in a lot more NCR dogtags available for collection. Playing with the Tweaks option "Fast Travel Requires Nuka Cola" means a lot of running around and actually witnessing a lot of these fights.
I guess someone decided to come back from the dead, huh? 😊
Whatever the case, I'm curious to see how this will impact my game. Like other commenters I've seen and tried several mods over the years that have attempted to tie charisma to the reputation system with varying degrees of success. From what I've read so far, this one seems better thought out than the others, and it definitely has the best technical implementation.
With all these great script extender resources it is so much easier to put something together than it was back then, or at least that it how it seems to me.
This sounds like a really interesting idea since you've implemented it differently than they did.