Here are some of my notes: - "Devil in disguise", you get +20 deception while you have evil karma or lower, which will be in the next update. - no reputation loss while in disguise, scrapped because its to videogamey, feels like an exploit and will not make sense in a lot of situations - Ability to disguise as a raider or other hostile groups, but that is somewhat annoying to implement. Its also a bit boring since there is no system in the game for getting caught (like in the hitman games for example). So that one will not be implemented either. Gonna include a fiend disguise at some point though, I think. If you have any ideas, feel free to suggest.
Most of my ideas are based a lot on reputation or general trickery, I've never coded for this game outside of patching so I'm not sure which of these are even possible but I figured Id list all the ideas I've come up with
The new guy Req 20 deception, 5 cha You're new in town but everyone just can't help but like you. You gain a strong +30 boost in all skills while in dialogue with factions you have a neutral reputation with (and only neutral, once you gain enough fame or infamy to become liked or disliked the boost is gone forever. Also the skill boost is only in dialogue so they can only be used for skill checks, yes the boost is strong for an early game perk but you likely won't get many chances to use it with each faction before they get to know you and wise up to your charms) Sticky fingers Req 25 deception, Ranks: 2 You're so trustworthy to your allies that no one seems to question it when you suddenly disappear for a few minutes and come back with heavier pockets. With this perk you are 20% harder to detect and have an extra 20% pickpocket chance vs factions you have a good reputation with. Rank 2 of this perk grants the same buffs vs any faction while your disguised as them Long gone Req 35 deception, 40 sneak You're so good at putting up a panicked act that when you run off enemies think you're long gone. With this perk you gain a boost in sneak as well as a stealth field effect for 30 seconds after enemies give up looking for you. (ie going from caution to hidden) Oh you! Req 35 deception, 7 cha People may not know what to make of you but you're so charming it doesn't really matter to them! You gain +15 to all skills while in dialogue with factions that view you as mixed, unpredictable, or wild child. (this is a weaker but much more manageable version of the new kid, as wild child and the other middle reputations can be obtained easier than avoiding fame altogether. Other than that the same rules apply) The imposter among us Req 40 deception, 30 speech You're so good at blending in that people can't tell you apart from the crowd even after the shots been fired! Sneak attack crits have a 50% chance to frenzy the target while you're disguised as the faction they belong to. Heistmaster Req 50 deception, 40 guns (gotta make sure the larger ones don't accidentally go off while stuffed in your clothes) I swear that's all I got on me bud! With this perk you're now able to smuggle in all weapons with a strength requirement under 4 into casinos in addition to your holdout weapons. (not sure on the possibility of this, obviously it shouldn't add the weapons to the holdout formlist but maybe there's some script fuckery that could do this without compatibility issues) They went that-a way Req 50 deception, 45 speech, 6 luck You're so good with words that you can convince pursuers currently after you that you're still headed for the hills, what saps! If you are currently being attacked by hostile faction members and you don a disguise of their faction when they can't see you then they'll act as though you don't exist and keep searching in vain. (yeah this one probably isn't possible or that useful but it was a funny idea so I thought i'd include it anyway) Et tu? Req 75 deception You've used these suckers all you can and it's about time you did away with them. Upon taking this perk you gain a permanent damage bonus to all faction members based on how liked you are by their faction when you take the perk. Neutral reps get +10%, positive reps besides idolized get +20%, and Idolized gets +30%. (These bonuses are based on the reputation you're currently at when you take the perk, meaning you won't lose them when you decide to put them to use.) Fox nap Req 100 deception, 75 medicine (it'd take some serious knowledge about the human body to perfectly mimic a corpse) What better way to fool your foes than to make them think you kicked the bucket entirely? With this perk when you drop below 10% health you go limp and all enemies stop attacking you (thinking you're dead) you then become completely undetectable for 60 seconds (ends immediately if you attack) allowing you to scurry away before they realize the ruse. Careful though, they likely won't fall for the same trick twice (10 minute real time cooldown)
These are pretty good, especially fox nap. Any perk that changes the way you play the game is awesome. Gonna think of a rendition of that to put in the mod, I think an automatic "fake out" at 10% HP would get annoying quick since you have no direct control over it. It's also hard to achieve if playing with hardcore damage mods. New guy looks like a decent early game perk (I'd say level 2 with 20 or 25 deception, maybe 20 deception + 20 speech), that increases the roster for deception perks a bit. Casino stuff I want to add with new dialogue options instead of perks. With enough deception you should be able to convince the guards to let you through with all your weapons, or at least most ("I am the new bodyguard for your the Hendersons", etc.) Don't think extra pickpocketchance would be a good for a perk, since pick pocketing is a badly implemented mechanic anyway (seriously, who doesn't just quickload after getting caught), but I am gonna keep that one in mind for another thing I am working on.
I love this idea and really want to incorporate this into my mod list however I just can't do so at the cost of Big Guns and the mods related to it. I will be following this mod with hopeful optimism and consider a mod change on my next playthrough.
The only downside of this mod is that True Police Stories still gives a bonus to Critical Chance instead of being the Deception Magazine it was so clearly born to be - but I understand that being a little out of scope for this mod!
Also, when dealing with the files in Vault 22, you can lie to Keely about already having retrieved them to get out of some fairly high Speech and/or Science checks. It would be good if this was made a skill check like all the other wonderful changes in this mod.
There actually is a new deception magazine called "True Crime Stories", although its only in some leveled lists, meaning its pretty rare since most vanilla magazines are placed directly in the world. Did not want to make too many edits to the world. Good call on the keely check though.
Oh, that makes sense! I remember seeing a True Crime Stories while digging around the esp, but didn't realise that was a different thing.
It does make me feel like making a mod to give each magazine a skill bonus and some other bonus, though. Like True Police Stories giving both +10 Deception and +5 Critical Chance. They're always just so niche.
What about this line? Are not all [Lie] lines modified to use deception skill? Or is it an issue on my end https://imgur.com/a/a7cxh7J Also I feel like this one should have been marked as [Lie] in vanilla game https://imgur.com/a/IOznuNt
Seen so many mods saying "Speech (or Charisma) is weak" but it is indeed the most OP still (special stat) you can invest in. I've just read the article on what this adds & changes & I'm really impressed & excited about trying this out.
Tend to create a character with 6-8 Endurance (for Usanagi Implants) then the rest dropped into Charisma/Agility/Luck/Intelligence, Charisma usually being the highest or 2nd highest SPECIAL stat by the time I've left Good Springs, so this being a useful & useable replacement for the hidden Big Guns skill is just making use of a pretty limited skill when it was available in Fallout 3.
Disguises getting a much needed rework (and hopefully actually working) is nice to see, 9/10 times I'm hated or vilified by Powder Gangers & the Legion & for the sake of role-playing it'd be great to still sneak into the NCRCF & "help" Eddie up until getting the NCR to take over instead of doing that first before helping Ringo & Good Springs get rid of their own Powder Ganger problem.
I see in Xedit you changed big guns to deception. Out of curiosity, would it have been possible to add a whole new skill into the game, or was this the only way to do it? Also, I know you said they were incompatible, but does this include fixes from other disguise mods such as faction armor redone - YUPdated?
I have no idea if adding a new skill is possible - i don't know how to create extensions like JIP LN. But I would imagine that it would be extremely hard because of just how many areas of the engine you would have to touch to make it work.
As for the other mods, I did include the whiteglove-fix from YUP (I should probably mention that on the main page). I did not include any features from Faction Armor redone. Rep not going down when putting on a disguise is a great addition, so I will probably implement it in the next update. Also, you can use other mods that change disguise scripts (like YUP), just make sure to load this one last.
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- "Devil in disguise", you get +20 deception while you have evil karma or lower, which will be in the next update.
- no reputation loss while in disguise, scrapped because its to videogamey, feels like an exploit and will not make sense in a lot of situations
- Ability to disguise as a raider or other hostile groups, but that is somewhat annoying to implement. Its also a bit boring since there is no system in the game for getting caught (like in the hitman games for example). So that one will not be implemented either. Gonna include a fiend disguise at some point though, I think.
If you have any ideas, feel free to suggest.
The new guy
Req 20 deception, 5 cha
You're new in town but everyone just can't help but like you. You gain a strong +30 boost in all skills while in dialogue with factions you have a neutral reputation with (and only neutral, once you gain enough fame or infamy to become liked or disliked the boost is gone forever. Also the skill boost is only in dialogue so they can only be used for skill checks, yes the boost is strong for an early game perk but you likely won't get many chances to use it with each faction before they get to know you and wise up to your charms)
Sticky fingers
Req 25 deception, Ranks: 2
You're so trustworthy to your allies that no one seems to question it when you suddenly disappear for a few minutes and come back with heavier pockets. With this perk you are 20% harder to detect and have an extra 20% pickpocket chance vs factions you have a good reputation with. Rank 2 of this perk grants the same buffs vs any faction while your disguised as them
Long gone
Req 35 deception, 40 sneak
You're so good at putting up a panicked act that when you run off enemies think you're long gone. With this perk you gain a boost in sneak as well as a stealth field effect for 30 seconds after enemies give up looking for you. (ie going from caution to hidden)
Oh you!
Req 35 deception, 7 cha
People may not know what to make of you but you're so charming it doesn't really matter to them! You gain +15 to all skills while in dialogue with factions that view you as mixed, unpredictable, or wild child. (this is a weaker but much more manageable version of the new kid, as wild child and the other middle reputations can be obtained easier than avoiding fame altogether. Other than that the same rules apply)
The imposter among us
Req 40 deception, 30 speech
You're so good at blending in that people can't tell you apart from the crowd even after the shots been fired! Sneak attack crits have a 50% chance to frenzy the target while you're disguised as the faction they belong to.
Heistmaster
Req 50 deception, 40 guns (gotta make sure the larger ones don't accidentally go off while stuffed in your clothes)
I swear that's all I got on me bud! With this perk you're now able to smuggle in all weapons with a strength requirement under 4 into casinos in addition to your holdout weapons. (not sure on the possibility of this, obviously it shouldn't add the weapons to the holdout formlist but maybe there's some script fuckery that could do this without compatibility issues)
They went that-a way
Req 50 deception, 45 speech, 6 luck
You're so good with words that you can convince pursuers currently after you that you're still headed for the hills, what saps! If you are currently being attacked by hostile faction members and you don a disguise of their faction when they can't see you then they'll act as though you don't exist and keep searching in vain. (yeah this one probably isn't possible or that useful but it was a funny idea so I thought i'd include it anyway)
Et tu?
Req 75 deception
You've used these suckers all you can and it's about time you did away with them. Upon taking this perk you gain a permanent damage bonus to all faction members based on how liked you are by their faction when you take the perk. Neutral reps get +10%, positive reps besides idolized get +20%, and Idolized gets +30%. (These bonuses are based on the reputation you're currently at when you take the perk, meaning you won't lose them when you decide to put them to use.)
Fox nap
Req 100 deception, 75 medicine (it'd take some serious knowledge about the human body to perfectly mimic a corpse)
What better way to fool your foes than to make them think you kicked the bucket entirely? With this perk when you drop below 10% health you go limp and all enemies stop attacking you (thinking you're dead) you then become completely undetectable for 60 seconds (ends immediately if you attack) allowing you to scurry away before they realize the ruse. Careful though, they likely won't fall for the same trick twice (10 minute real time cooldown)
New guy looks like a decent early game perk (I'd say level 2 with 20 or 25 deception, maybe 20 deception + 20 speech), that increases the roster for deception perks a bit.
Casino stuff I want to add with new dialogue options instead of perks. With enough deception you should be able to convince the guards to let you through with all your weapons, or at least most ("I am the new bodyguard for your the Hendersons", etc.)
Don't think extra pickpocketchance would be a good for a perk, since pick pocketing is a badly implemented mechanic anyway (seriously, who doesn't just quickload after getting caught), but I am gonna keep that one in mind for another thing I am working on.
Also, when dealing with the files in Vault 22, you can lie to Keely about already having retrieved them to get out of some fairly high Speech and/or Science checks. It would be good if this was made a skill check like all the other wonderful changes in this mod.
Good call on the keely check though.
It does make me feel like making a mod to give each magazine a skill bonus and some other bonus, though. Like True Police Stories giving both +10 Deception and +5 Critical Chance. They're always just so niche.
https://imgur.com/a/a7cxh7J
Also I feel like this one should have been marked as [Lie] in vanilla game
https://imgur.com/a/IOznuNt
Tend to create a character with 6-8 Endurance (for Usanagi Implants) then the rest dropped into Charisma/Agility/Luck/Intelligence, Charisma usually being the highest or 2nd highest SPECIAL stat by the time I've left Good Springs, so this being a useful & useable replacement for the hidden Big Guns skill is just making use of a pretty limited skill when it was available in Fallout 3.
Disguises getting a much needed rework (and hopefully actually working) is nice to see, 9/10 times I'm hated or vilified by Powder Gangers & the Legion & for the sake of role-playing it'd be great to still sneak into the NCRCF & "help" Eddie up until getting the NCR to take over instead of doing that first before helping Ringo & Good Springs get rid of their own Powder Ganger problem.
As for the other mods, I did include the whiteglove-fix from YUP (I should probably mention that on the main page). I did not include any features from Faction Armor redone. Rep not going down when putting on a disguise is a great addition, so I will probably implement it in the next update. Also, you can use other mods that change disguise scripts (like YUP), just make sure to load this one last.