When updating to the current version of 0.9.8, please delete the old "Weight Unit Conversion" folder under MWSE/mods/ and get rid of the unused old "Weight Unit Conversion.json" config file: under MWSE/config/. Having both versions running may cause problems.
This is because the MCM has undergone a complete rework, thereby making bugs with old configs a possiblity. I could've reminded you to simply delete the old config, but I also wanted to rename the mod (again) to reflect the new major 'Gold Value Uncertainty' feature.
For Ashfall users out there: besides applying fix from here https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/49046?tab=bugs for better compatibility with Ashfall you can add division by 10 to get kg into Crafting Framework:
file The Crafting Framework\MWSE\mods\CraftingFramework\carryableContainers\eventHandlers\UIEvents.lua
Instead of
local fillbar = e.tooltip:createFillBar{ current = currentWeight, max = maxWeight }
put local fillbar = e.tooltip:createFillBar{ current = currentWeight / 10.0, max = maxWeight / 10.0
which will make it in kg (though without fractional part).
The mod is great. I have one problem however - when I hover the crosshairs over an NPC, the tooltip with the NPCs name shows a weight under the name? Is this intentional and if it is, what does the weight represent?
I thought that some of my other mods conflict with this one and my prime suspects were Pickpocket and Not clairvoyant Nerevarine, because they both interact with tooltips. Disabling the mods didn't help however - only disabling Units and Vagueness removed the weight from the tooltip.
I'm fairly late to this issue, though if you look under the mods 'bugs' tab, I helped someone out with this oversight a while ago. As far as I can tell the number is unintentional, and just happens since units and vagueness doesn't check the class of an entity before adding the weight tool tip text (adding a simple 'is npc?' check fixes all occurrences of the text). Here's a link to the end solution I ended up packaging as a standalone file: - tooltip.lua Basically, just replace the tooltip.lua in the original mod with this and it should work fine. You can check the original bug report thread for specifics as to where my modifications (the check itself) goes for if/when this mod is updated in the future.
How do you mean weird? Granted, it's just a number behind a red slash, but I really wanted to keep the information overload to a minimum. This is also why it only shows up when it's useful:
Gold/Weight Ratio: - option to enable only if the item is worth less than 2000 gold and weighs more than 400 grams, or 4.0 in Vanilla units - can't remember what it was before, but now it's the higher the better (so gold/weight, not weight/gold)
(It also takes stackweight and stackgold into account, if you enabled that)
If you feel this way, then I don't mind adding another mod config option for this, when I eventually continue to work on this.
For the time being, you can go to Morrowind/Data Files/MWSE/mods/Units and Vagueness/ and open the tooltip.lua, and replace at line 566 this: if common.config.useWeightGoldRatio and e.object.value < 2000 and weight > 4.0 then with this: if common.config.useWeightGoldRatio --[[and e.object.value < 2000 and weight > 4.0]] then to always show the Value/Weight ratio, if enabled in the MCM.
If you want the value to use decimal points, as in abots Tooltip mod, then replace line 576 with this: local ratioLabel = ratioBlock:createLabel{ text = string.format("%.2f", ratio) }
In case you decide, you really don't like the slash, try modifiyng line 571 with an alternate symbol in place of the slash (...string.format("[here]")...), and/or remove the red slash color, by putting "--" infront of line 572.
Applying vague labels to item value would also be an interesting feature, if you'd be willing to implement that. However, since value varies much more than weight, perhaps generic figures would be more appropriate: one figure (or 1f) for anything under 10 gold, two figures (or 2f) for double-digit values, and so on.
I'd also like to suggest these five tiers for the different weight labels:
Thank you for your label suggestions. You've swapped encumbering for heavy. Did it really sound that weird? I'm no English native speaker, so I wouldn't know. I think I went with it, because it was longer, and felt more heavy than heavy, on first glance. Likewise I'm not so sure about airy. But I read it to myself a few times, and it checks out. I didn't need that low tier yet, because I consider that information mostly useless, hence adding the hide option for small units. I don't mind adding it though.
----
About the item value. I had already thought about integrating value and relative value (weight/value) into one, while also trying to stay true to context: the more experience/knowledge PC has, the better they should be able to guess an items value. Also trading could have an effect on what is or isn't vague. But ... I think the latter is overdoing it quite a bit, and risks turning it into a minigame about maximizing the display of information by going to every vendor to check item prizes (a similar thing happens in Not Clairvoyant Nerevarine with uncovering all kinds of info). Also integrating the weight/value should be left to edge cases, such as "worthless burden" or "valuable gem". And as you said, the variation is high, and there is no end to this.
So I was thinking of three settings: - Common items: To keep the weirdness for players as low as possible, there shouldn't actually be a vague label on all things common and cheap. So the value of iron daggers and pillows and saltrice are too unimportant to bother with reading (reading a number is actually easier for us modern men), and a word would just grab our attention a bit more. Optionally the value could be hidden outside of the bartering screen. - Valuable items: Starting with Dwemer Coins and Sload Soaps, I could see how hiding the precise value does add some depth to the game. Your suggestion was digits as words, but numbers aren't all bad either. F.i. one could also make it "~50", or "5??" if more than one digit is unknown, and more being uncovered depending on the player lvl or mercantile. - Invaluable items: For items that are above an epic value of maybe 5000, like an unfilled Azuras Star, a descriptive label could come in handy. That tier could be named "prized" or "precious". Further up, it might make it a bit more mysterious to find a Volcanic Glass cuirass that says "invaluable", until one brings it before some rich vendor. When below a certain ceiling, one would still uncover more precise values ("48???") with higher PC lvl and/or mercantile. The Azuras Star-filled-with-Almalexias-Soul tier could be "epic" and maybe should remain that way? But then again, I like the feeling I get when I see numbers in the millions (But I also think the Mournhold Museum is stupid; it takes away the magic to turn it into meaningless ingame cash).
And then one could use yellow and orange borders instead of labels, for, let's say: "simply valuable" things and "artifacts" respectively.
I'm just picky when it comes to labels, and heavy sounds a bit better for me with massive as the highest tier. I also think medium would make for a slightly better mass-related term than moderate. Airy probably would be better off not being displayed at all, but nonetheless a nice tooltip option for those who want to see a weight label for everything.
I think these five value tiers would strike a good balance between vague and useful:
cheap = under 25g (with an option to hide this along with the airy weight) decent = 25 to 100 expensive = 100 to 1000 valuable = 1000 to 5000 precious = over 5000
Having Mercantile factor into value labels would definitely make that skill more useful, with cheaper items having their exact value listed first, and then more expensive values at higher skill, with the limit being anything over 5000 gold (since it's unlikely you'd be able to sell it for its full worth, anyway). I feel like that would be less awkward than blanking out individual numbers.
As for merchant appraisal, I think the above Mercantile mechanics would take care of that, since merchants are basically appraising everything you trade with them, with your Mercantile skill determining the accuracy of their appraisals.
Value/weight ratio I would leave out entirely and up to the player's judgement on whether the vague value is worth the vague weight.
After some testing, it appears that Visually Filled Soul Gems is causing containers to display only vanilla weight measurements instead of vague labels. I have no idea why, since that mod doesn't affect containers.
Without the soul gem mod, container weight will still revert back to vanilla measurements when nearly full. Exiting and reopening the menu corrects this until a new item is selected.
A similar issue happens when transferring items between the player and a corpse's inventory, causing the player's encumbrance to revert back to vanilla measurements. However, this only happens while an item is being moved.
When used with the latest edition of Graphic Herbalism, plant tooltips will display their vanilla weight and value.
When bartering, bought items will display the price you paid, but sold items will still retain their vague label.
For container labels, I think piled (or cluttered) would look better than bulging, since that's really only fitting for bags.
I found myself getting a bit confused with the different value labels after the prized tier, since they're rather interchangeable. I think five tiers at most would be more distinct, with the maximum being anything the richest merchant can't afford.
Your effort in testing this means a lot to me! Thank you!
After some testing, it appears that Visually Filled Soul Gems is causing containers to display only vanilla weight measurements instead of vague labels. I have no idea why, since that mod doesn't affect containers.
I've just checked and disabling Visually Filled Soul Gems does indeed have an effect. I also don't know how it does that. Maybe something about hooking into references? But it shouldn't do anything to containers, as you said.local ref = e.reference if (not ref.object.isSoulGem) then return end
Without the soul gem mod, container weight will still revert back to vanilla measurements when nearly full. Exiting and reopening the menu corrects this until a new item is selected.
Interesting. By nearly full you mean it Is reverted before dropping an item that the container cannot take?
A similar issue happens when transferring items between the player and a corpse's inventory, causing the player's encumbrance to revert back to vanilla measurements. However, this only happens while an item is being moved.
Sounds like the same issues that I have and that I can't find the solution to. I honestly am not smart enough about MWSE and the engines inner workings to figure this out (It already took me many hours of trial and error to bring it to this state).
UI Expansion hooks into itemTileUpdated and uiActivated events on both the inventory and the contents menu. With my mod, whenever the contents menu updates, I am currently also triggering an update event on the inventory, in order to modify the encumbrance bar. But if I did the same for the capacity bar, it would cause a loop and CTD.
I actually wanted to move on to other projects, but if I would start fixing this, I should try hooking into itemTileUpdated and mouseClick events.
When used with the latest edition of Graphic Herbalism, plant tooltips will display their vanilla weight and value.
I see. It's expanding a container tooltip and adding its own labels. It is possible to remove those and add an icon bar similar to my item tooltips.
When bartering, bought items will display the price you paid, but sold items will still retain their vague label.
Yes, that is intended. I was curious what you think about this: If I "ask" a merchant for the price of an item in his store, he would tell something closer to the truth (and much higher), as when he is looking at my offers to him, right? And when using Harder Barter or somesuch mod, this offering value would decrease further.
Now what would happen if you sell someone a dwemer cup, and then you ask them for the price again for buying it back? It would differ drastically, but which is it then? The PC should assume that the real value is the buying value, and take it with a grain of salt (hence the '?' on all traded values < 98%). And because the difference is confusing, I opted for ignoring the selling value altogether. The estimate value that I am calulating via my Gold Value Uncertainty option is however going for the base value, not the trading value. So I am always using the one closer to the base value, regardless.
For container labels, I think piled (or cluttered) would look better than bulging, since that's really only fitting for bags.
Will switch that with the next update. If you want to change it in your installation, you can modify the translation.lua to your hearts content.
I found myself getting a bit confused with the different value labels after the prized tier, since they're rather interchangeable. I think five tiers at most would be more distinct, with the maximum being anything the richest merchant can't afford.
Maybe I was a bit overzealous here, but here is my thinking: The tiers may sound interchangable to some degree, but really that is what vagueness is all about. I made it so, that the tiers are scaling relative to the merc and char level: a Prisoners precious tier items may become a Nerevarines prized, and so on. Also, it is very possible that you won't see more than five of the labels until way into late game, because ... - ... invaluable acts as a cap for those tiers you can't fathom (yet) - prized are things like scrolls and gems; initially more expensive than common, but actually common for the successful adventurer - precious tier items are "treasured", such as the ring of surroundings, but they are still affordable and sellable - immense tier items are simply unaffordable when buying, like high-grade weapons and armor, but not always unique artifacts - mythic is the tier of the better half of high-grade armor and unique artifacts; it is an attempt to seperate the latter from the rest - legendary is anything above 111000 such as the best unique armor in the game and Azuras Star with Dagoth Urs soul f.i., which really is the stuff of legends; naturally there are only very few items that can have this label, and even with a lvl 40 char (that may be mid-late-game, when some may have already aquired the items in question) it requires at least 25 in mercantile to get this label, instead of invaluable
I wanted to make the mythic and legendary tiers really exceptional and only apply to unique items (items with only 1 reference in the game), but that's stuff for a later update.
As you see I have put some thought into it, and I find it fairly balanced and nuanced. And it is not just a number thing too. Still, you're welcome to try and tinker with my code and/or labels. If I like your solution better, I may adopt it.
By nearly full you mean it Is reverted before dropping an item that the container cannot take?
When it's past the half-full mark.
Sounds like the same issues that I have and that I can't find the solution to.
Yeah, it's not a big deal if you can't fix it, since players tend to use the Take All or Dispose function with corpses, anyway.
Yes, that is intended. I was curious what you think about this: If I "ask" a merchant for the price of an item in his store, he would tell something closer to the truth (and much higher), as when he is looking at my offers to him, right? And when using Harder Barter or somesuch mod, this offering value would decrease further.
Ah, that makes sense. The sold item can still be appraised, so to speak, by selecting it in the reopened barter menu without finalizing the purchase. It takes some effort, but it's good for roleplaying a long-winded discussion with the merchant on item value.
it is very possible that you won't see more than five of the labels until way into late game
That is a good point. If I may suggest these tier labels for a bit more clarity: Tier 0 = cheap Tier 1 = common Tier 2 = expensive (a good middle ground between common and prized) Tier 3 = prized Tier 4 = precious (a good replacement for immense, which isn't as value-related) Tier 5 = mythic Tier 6 = legendary Tier Mask = priceless (by its literal definition in this case)
I really appreciate this, particularly the different units for potions/drinks. If I could request another feature, it'd be an option to disable the value to weight ratio when using specific units.
Enabling/Disabling it should become an option. You are right.
But with specific units you mean small and big units? Otherwise, just disabling it would be enough, because you can only have one units system active at any time, and you could re-enable it when you switch.
Are you looking for options like these? - Disable - Enable on small unit (g/ml/oz/"light") - Enable on big unit (kg/lb/"moderate"+) - Enable on fluids - Enable on non-fluids - Always enable
Maybe those plus an additional Yes/No-toggle for skipping it, when not relevant, kind of as it is currently. So it will show only when: gold < 2000 and (stack-)weight > 4.0 (400g).
Sorry, should've been clearer. I meant specific units as in Metric/Imperial, as opposed to the Roleplay option which automatically disables. Personally, having an enable/disable toggle would be enough, because most other settings can already be changed.
this is a really cool mod but it's built on a fairly old build of UI Expansion, unfortunately, and it looks like it's breaking the Training menu module due to some weird window sizing issues. if you disable that module it seems like it works perfectly fine, but it'd be really cool if you could update it to the most recent codebase.
This is a really cool mod you've put together. I can't believe that there was actually method to the vanilla weights or that someone was actually able to figure it out. Amazing work.
It struck me as rather odd that I should be the only one to have had this insight. But after googling for Morrowind weight units, all I could find were complicated rebalancing attempts, or shrugs about Morrowind being a fantasy land (“it's in pounds, get over it”). I'm glad that you like it!
33 comments
This is because the MCM has undergone a complete rework, thereby making bugs with old configs a possiblity. I could've reminded you to simply delete the old config, but I also wanted to rename the mod (again) to reflect the new major 'Gold Value Uncertainty' feature.
I apologize for the hassle!
Take care.
For Ashfall users out there: besides applying fix from here https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/49046?tab=bugs
for better compatibility with Ashfall you can add division by 10 to get kg into Crafting Framework:
file The Crafting Framework\MWSE\mods\CraftingFramework\carryableContainers\eventHandlers\UIEvents.lua
Instead of
local fillbar = e.tooltip:createFillBar{
current = currentWeight,
max = maxWeight
}
put
local fillbar = e.tooltip:createFillBar{
current = currentWeight / 10.0,
max = maxWeight / 10.0
which will make it in kg (though without fractional part).
The mod is great. I have one problem however - when I hover the crosshairs over an NPC, the tooltip with the NPCs name shows a weight under the name? Is this intentional and if it is, what does the weight represent?
I thought that some of my other mods conflict with this one and my prime suspects were Pickpocket and Not clairvoyant Nerevarine, because they both interact with tooltips. Disabling the mods didn't help however - only disabling Units and Vagueness removed the weight from the tooltip.
I can attach a modlist, if it helps.
Regards
- tooltip.lua
Basically, just replace the tooltip.lua in the original mod with this and it should work fine. You can check the original bug report thread for specifics as to where my modifications (the check itself) goes for if/when this mod is updated in the future.
Regards
(It also takes stackweight and stackgold into account, if you enabled that)
For the time being, you can go to Morrowind/Data Files/MWSE/mods/Units and Vagueness/ and open the tooltip.lua, and replace at line 566 this:
if common.config.useWeightGoldRatio and e.object.value < 2000 and weight > 4.0 then
with this:if common.config.useWeightGoldRatio --[[and e.object.value < 2000 and weight > 4.0]] then
to always show the Value/Weight ratio, if enabled in the MCM.If you want the value to use decimal points, as in abots Tooltip mod, then replace line 576 with this:
local ratioLabel = ratioBlock:createLabel{ text = string.format("%.2f", ratio) }
In case you decide, you really don't like the slash, try modifiyng line 571 with an alternate symbol in place of the slash (...string.format("[here]")...), and/or remove the red slash color, by putting "--" infront of line 572.
I hope this works for you. Have fun!
I'd also like to suggest these five tiers for the different weight labels:
Item: airy, light, moderate, heavy, massive
Container: empty, sparse, half-full, cluttered, full
Encumbrance: unhindered, stocked, packed, burdened, immobile
----
About the item value. I had already thought about integrating value and relative value (weight/value) into one, while also trying to stay true to context: the more experience/knowledge PC has, the better they should be able to guess an items value. Also trading could have an effect on what is or isn't vague. But ...
I think the latter is overdoing it quite a bit, and risks turning it into a minigame about maximizing the display of information by going to every vendor to check item prizes (a similar thing happens in Not Clairvoyant Nerevarine with uncovering all kinds of info).
Also integrating the weight/value should be left to edge cases, such as "worthless burden" or "valuable gem". And as you said, the variation is high, and there is no end to this.
So I was thinking of three settings:
- Common items: To keep the weirdness for players as low as possible, there shouldn't actually be a vague label on all things common and cheap. So the value of iron daggers and pillows and saltrice are too unimportant to bother with reading (reading a number is actually easier for us modern men), and a word would just grab our attention a bit more. Optionally the value could be hidden outside of the bartering screen.
- Valuable items: Starting with Dwemer Coins and Sload Soaps, I could see how hiding the precise value does add some depth to the game. Your suggestion was digits as words, but numbers aren't all bad either. F.i. one could also make it "~50", or "5??" if more than one digit is unknown, and more being uncovered depending on the player lvl or mercantile.
- Invaluable items: For items that are above an epic value of maybe 5000, like an unfilled Azuras Star, a descriptive label could come in handy. That tier could be named "prized" or "precious". Further up, it might make it a bit more mysterious to find a Volcanic Glass cuirass that says "invaluable", until one brings it before some rich vendor. When below a certain ceiling, one would still uncover more precise values ("48???") with higher PC lvl and/or mercantile. The Azuras Star-filled-with-Almalexias-Soul tier could be "epic" and maybe should remain that way? But then again, I like the feeling I get when I see numbers in the millions (But I also think the Mournhold Museum is stupid; it takes away the magic to turn it into meaningless ingame cash).
And then one could use yellow and orange borders instead of labels, for, let's say: "simply valuable" things and "artifacts" respectively.
How is that?
I think it might be doable.
I think these five value tiers would strike a good balance between vague and useful:
cheap = under 25g (with an option to hide this along with the airy weight)
decent = 25 to 100
expensive = 100 to 1000
valuable = 1000 to 5000
precious = over 5000
Having Mercantile factor into value labels would definitely make that skill more useful, with cheaper items having their exact value listed first, and then more expensive values at higher skill, with the limit being anything over 5000 gold (since it's unlikely you'd be able to sell it for its full worth, anyway). I feel like that would be less awkward than blanking out individual numbers.
As for merchant appraisal, I think the above Mercantile mechanics would take care of that, since merchants are basically appraising everything you trade with them, with your Mercantile skill determining the accuracy of their appraisals.
Value/weight ratio I would leave out entirely and up to the player's judgement on whether the vague value is worth the vague weight.
Without the soul gem mod, container weight will still revert back to vanilla measurements when nearly full. Exiting and reopening the menu corrects this until a new item is selected.
A similar issue happens when transferring items between the player and a corpse's inventory, causing the player's encumbrance to revert back to vanilla measurements. However, this only happens while an item is being moved.
When used with the latest edition of Graphic Herbalism, plant tooltips will display their vanilla weight and value.
When bartering, bought items will display the price you paid, but sold items will still retain their vague label.
For container labels, I think piled (or cluttered) would look better than bulging, since that's really only fitting for bags.
I found myself getting a bit confused with the different value labels after the prized tier, since they're rather interchangeable. I think five tiers at most would be more distinct, with the maximum being anything the richest merchant can't afford.
local ref = e.reference
if (not ref.object.isSoulGem) then
return
end
UI Expansion hooks into itemTileUpdated and uiActivated events on both the inventory and the contents menu. With my mod, whenever the contents menu updates, I am currently also triggering an update event on the inventory, in order to modify the encumbrance bar. But if I did the same for the capacity bar, it would cause a loop and CTD.
I actually wanted to move on to other projects, but if I would start fixing this, I should try hooking into itemTileUpdated and mouseClick events.
If I "ask" a merchant for the price of an item in his store, he would tell something closer to the truth (and much higher), as when he is looking at my offers to him, right? And when using Harder Barter or somesuch mod, this offering value would decrease further.
Now what would happen if you sell someone a dwemer cup, and then you ask them for the price again for buying it back? It would differ drastically, but which is it then? The PC should assume that the real value is the buying value, and take it with a grain of salt (hence the '?' on all traded values < 98%). And because the difference is confusing, I opted for ignoring the selling value altogether.
The estimate value that I am calulating via my Gold Value Uncertainty option is however going for the base value, not the trading value. So I am always using the one closer to the base value, regardless.
The tiers may sound interchangable to some degree, but really that is what vagueness is all about. I made it so, that the tiers are scaling relative to the merc and char level: a Prisoners precious tier items may become a Nerevarines prized, and so on.
Also, it is very possible that you won't see more than five of the labels until way into late game, because ...
- ... invaluable acts as a cap for those tiers you can't fathom (yet)
- prized are things like scrolls and gems; initially more expensive than common, but actually common for the successful adventurer
- precious tier items are "treasured", such as the ring of surroundings, but they are still affordable and sellable
- immense tier items are simply unaffordable when buying, like high-grade weapons and armor, but not always unique artifacts
- mythic is the tier of the better half of high-grade armor and unique artifacts; it is an attempt to seperate the latter from the rest
- legendary is anything above 111000 such as the best unique armor in the game and Azuras Star with Dagoth Urs soul f.i., which really is the stuff of legends; naturally there are only very few items that can have this label, and even with a lvl 40 char (that may be mid-late-game, when some may have already aquired the items in question) it requires at least 25 in mercantile to get this label, instead of invaluable
I wanted to make the mythic and legendary tiers really exceptional and only apply to unique items (items with only 1 reference in the game), but that's stuff for a later update.
As you see I have put some thought into it, and I find it fairly balanced and nuanced. And it is not just a number thing too. Still, you're welcome to try and tinker with my code and/or labels. If I like your solution better, I may adopt it.
Tier 0 = cheap
Tier 1 = common
Tier 2 = expensive (a good middle ground between common and prized)
Tier 3 = prized
Tier 4 = precious (a good replacement for immense, which isn't as value-related)
Tier 5 = mythic
Tier 6 = legendary
Tier Mask = priceless (by its literal definition in this case)
But with specific units you mean small and big units? Otherwise, just disabling it would be enough, because you can only have one units system active at any time, and you could re-enable it when you switch.
Are you looking for options like these?
- Disable
- Enable on small unit (g/ml/oz/"light")
- Enable on big unit (kg/lb/"moderate"+)
- Enable on fluids
- Enable on non-fluids
- Always enable
Maybe those plus an additional Yes/No-toggle for skipping it, when not relevant, kind of as it is currently. So it will show only when: gold < 2000 and (stack-)weight > 4.0 (400g).
What do you think?