how would i go about, if want to change the percentzage of armor contribution for armor rating? In you mod you did this for evasion, but i don't get how could use this for the normal armor rating calc. It would be great if you or anyone could help me with this. It should be for both npc and player.
Does negative values actually make you easier to hit? Negative evasion seems to stack with Sanctuary buffs so early in the game a Sanctuary spell is essentially useless on someone using heavy armor. This makes light armor a clear winner - Glass armor comparable to medium armors in AR while weighting less and you now get a free sanctuary buff on top of that. Medium and heavy are at a clear disadvantage. I wish there was an option to make it Unarmored-only mechanic. I know there is another mod that does this but it works only for the player.
The second question is answered in the mod description... Literally the FIRST sentence of the mod description is - "MWSE-lua mod which makes armor contribute to player and npcs evasion modifier"
The answer to the first question is: The stat that this mod calls "evasion" exists in vanilla Morrowind; in vanilla, it's basically just whatever magnitude of the Sanctuary magic effect you're affected by. Any Sanctuary magnitude you're under will combine with your armor-based evasion to determine the evasion stat you'll see in the menu.
On a second thought, I think I've got a plan on how to make Unarmored (mostly) balanced, unique and able to be sensibly combined with Light / Medium / Heavy without penalizing the player for being bad at dodging while wearing heavy protection. So hear me out.
1. Unarmored is cosmetically renamed Dodging (Daggerfall style!) to explain why it gives some bonuses to characters wearing armor.
2. Unarmored (Dodging) is trained every time you get hit while being at least partially unarmored.
3. Each unarmored body part contributes proportionally to the training process just like the Light / Medium / Heavy skills (0.3 for the torso, etc.)
4. Each armored body part in no way or circumstances has a bearing on the training of Unarmored (Dodging)
5. AR bonus from Unarmored (Dodging) stays vanilla (Skill^2x0.0065)
6. Evasion (Sanctuary) bonus from Unarmored is a flat value equal to Skill/3, i.e. 33% at 100 and 50% at 150.
7. Each unarmored body part contributes proportionally to the overall resulting evasion bonus.
8. Body parts covered with Light armor, albeit contributing no progress to the training of Unarmored (Dodging), still receive a Dodging/6 (i.e. one third halved) proportional Sanctuary bonus, e.g. at Skill 100 the torso with Light armor on would yield a 100/6*0.3 = 5% evasion bonus. A full suit of Light armor, when worn, would still give 100/6 = 17% evasion bonus.
9. Body parts covered with Medium armor retain Dodging/9 (i.e. a third of a third) of evasion bonus.
10. Body parts covered with Heavy armor don't benefit from Dodging at all.
11. Armored body parts receive no bonus to AR from Dodging at all, instead their AR follows the vanilla formula for the appropriate armor skill.
What gives?
1. Going fully unarmored is quite fair now. Adding some spell- or potion-derived Sanctuary on top of that can make one nearly invincible.
2. Going full Light Armor with Dodging=100 still makes that skill worth maxing out with a whopping 17% evasion bonus. It's probably overall more efficient than fully unarmored at 33% bonus evasion, but requires maxing out two skills at half the rate each so it's quite fair. Your ass is gonna get kicked for twice as long before you are finally able to reap of the fruit.
3. Going full Medium might be not quite worth maxing out Unarmored, but still makes a big difference at 11% bonus evasion.
4. Wearing just a Light / Medium / Heavy cuirass makes for a very intriguing compromise scenario with a 23% bonus evasion plus a bit from the cuirass itself unless it's Heavy, and a significant AR bonus. Dodging + Heavy, Dodging + Medium, and Dodging + Light all become viable with only a few armor pieces equipped. "Partially Armored" is a style that combines two skills and is slow to train, but yields more than the mere sum of its constituents and trains two Attributes instead of just one.
5. You absolutely need to wear little to no armor if you want to train Dodging (Unarmored).
6. Yet it is not mandatory to wear no armor at all to make progress, a cuirass and a shield will do! You'll end up training both Dodging and an armor skill at the same time (which is the goal anyway)
You get experience to this skill by dodging attacks while not wearing armor, rather then getting hit.
Which makes combat against less competent enemies more rewarding experience-wise, which kinda goes against common sense. Cast a super strong blindness and agility drain on some mudcrab and enjoy your free training. I see where you are coming from but that's too exploitable.
While experts of this skill can evenboost their evasion a little, most of the time wearing medium armor will negatively affect your evasion modifier: from -26 to 12 with default settings.
An item or skill passively putting an ill-trained character in a less advantageous position than before is one hell of a balancing task and something alien to TES games no matter how much sense it might make logically thinking. The weight of the armor has always been the main penalty for donning heavier panoplies in TES, regardless of skill or class. TES3 introduced another, skill-based disadvantage of getting worse AR compared to an armor type you are more proficient with. I guess it’s better to stick with this system. Misuse makes you miss out on the benefits but doesn’t necessarily make you worse off than before on an absolute scale.As you know evasion is already in the game and for a very agile, fully rested character may contribute up to 37.5% towards the enemy’s miss chance. For someone who is clumsy and wasted, this may become like 3% or less.Wearing Medium or Heavy armor prevents the character from bettering their agility or speed unlike Light Armor and Unarmored, respectively. The hit to Speed and Fatigue due to sheer weight is no joke either. I don't think meddling with Light / Medium / Heavy skills was a good idea purely because of how much balancing hell that incurs. For instance, 26% Sanctuary + Light Armor blows 40% Sanctuary + Unarmored out of the water while Heavy starts to massively suck until very late game.IMO a simpler but still fair approach to Unarmored would be not to touch Light / Medium / Heavy at all but simply give the player 1/3 of the Armor Rating granted by Unarmed as extra evasion, split proportionally between every vacant armor slot (0.3 for cuirass, etc). At Skill Level 130 (quite realistically obtainable thru a reasonable enchantment without spending billions of drakes) that’s AR 110 + 36% evasion chance unaffected by Fatigue slapped on top of any natural Evasion the character might have... Unarmored characters are normally agile and don't have a fatigue problem so that can easily reach 70% all summed up. Even at skill 100 that’s AR 65 and 22% extra Evasion which is formidable. Now think of a mage / alchemist / rogue adding a bunch of extra temporary Sanctuary on top of that via potions / spells... "Next to unhittable" becomes reality. Then, there always be people who’d do anything to procure a Fortify Unarmored 100 CE item which would be 86% *extra* evasion on top of a rather high AR and lots of natural agility-based evasion. Given the game’s damage reduction capped at 25% min no matter what, that could be an even better option compared to Fortify Heavy 100 and a full daedric suit.There's an existing mod that’s supposed to do exactly this but it doesn't affect NPCs because it's not mwse-Lua based. I’ve played that mod and while that NPC bit sucked, the skill felt very fair and balanced. A cuirass-only character that still gets 0.7 of bonus Sanctuary from the naked body parts while specializing in both Unarmored and Heavy just *might* become problematic though. But I really like the concept of such a barbarian- or swashbuckler-type character. Decent (not stellar) AR plus decent evasion. Also, as per the lore
The Unarmored skill lets one avoid or reduce injury during combat while not wearing any armor by evading, deflecting, or absorbing blows.
Unlike in real life, Unarmored is supposed to be both about evasion and damage reduction. ’Tis but a flesh wound!
There's an option in the config menu to enable unarmored armor rating from the vanilla game, in addition to the evasion from this mod. But if you enable the option, nothing changes, your armor rating doesn't change, even if you restart the game.
Any opinions on installing this mod mid-playthrough? I do have my class spell with 50 sanctuary, +potentially 40 fron Unarmored, plus some random item from DRIP mod with 7 Sanctuary CE will make me unhittable. I'll consider dropping the maximum value from 40 to some 20-25 and reenable armor from unarmored, I think it should feel more balanced, especially when raising dificulty, the prospects of getting one-shotted don't feel good. I'll come back with feedback. Thank you for this mod.
I personally have my settings at 25-25 instead of the default, which is 40-35. I think it is more balanced, as the default settings heavily favor lighter armor skills over heavier ones in terms of overall defense and make heavy armor practically unusable earlier on.
Using latest Nimble Armor + Next Generation Combat doesn't let you raise Unarmored, even if you're dodging the hits by moving out of the way or evading them based on Evasion. I've tried with the always hit option both enabled and disabled as well, so I think there's just a fundamental incompatibility between the two as it currently stands, not sure who's side it's on
Turn off the Always Hit feature in NGC and restart; use Mod Organizer to move Nimble Armor down below NCG in the mod list so it loads after. The two work perfectly, test-raised Unarmored up to 200 from avoiding hits (player->setagility 1000 XD ) and got an 80 evasion rating lol. Running alonside MWSE Combat enhanced, Double CHIM and several other things that modify combat. Good luck!
Give Feedback
45 comments
how would i go about, if want to change the percentzage of armor contribution for armor rating?
In you mod you did this for evasion, but i don't get how could use this for the normal armor rating calc.
It would be great if you or anyone could help me with this.
It should be for both npc and player.
Negative evasion seems to stack with Sanctuary buffs so early in the game a Sanctuary spell is essentially useless on someone using heavy armor. This makes light armor a clear winner - Glass armor comparable to medium armors in AR while weighting less and you now get a free sanctuary buff on top of that. Medium and heavy are at a clear disadvantage.
I wish there was an option to make it Unarmored-only mechanic. I know there is another mod that does this but it works only for the player.
Do NPCs recieve an evasion bonus as well?
Should mention this in the description
Literally the FIRST sentence of the mod description is - "MWSE-lua mod which makes armor contribute to player and npcs evasion modifier"
The answer to the first question is:
The stat that this mod calls "evasion" exists in vanilla Morrowind; in vanilla, it's basically just whatever magnitude of the Sanctuary magic effect you're affected by. Any Sanctuary magnitude you're under will combine with your armor-based evasion to determine the evasion stat you'll see in the menu.
1. Unarmored is cosmetically renamed Dodging (Daggerfall style!) to explain why it gives some bonuses to characters wearing armor.
2. Unarmored (Dodging) is trained every time you get hit while being at least partially unarmored.
3. Each unarmored body part contributes proportionally to the training process just like the Light / Medium / Heavy skills (0.3 for the torso, etc.)
4. Each armored body part in no way or circumstances has a bearing on the training of Unarmored (Dodging)
5. AR bonus from Unarmored (Dodging) stays vanilla (Skill^2x0.0065)
6. Evasion (Sanctuary) bonus from Unarmored is a flat value equal to Skill/3, i.e. 33% at 100 and 50% at 150.
7. Each unarmored body part contributes proportionally to the overall resulting evasion bonus.
8. Body parts covered with Light armor, albeit contributing no progress to the training of Unarmored (Dodging), still receive a Dodging/6 (i.e. one third halved) proportional Sanctuary bonus, e.g. at Skill 100 the torso with Light armor on would yield a 100/6*0.3 = 5% evasion bonus. A full suit of Light armor, when worn, would still give 100/6 = 17% evasion bonus.
9. Body parts covered with Medium armor retain Dodging/9 (i.e. a third of a third) of evasion bonus.
10. Body parts covered with Heavy armor don't benefit from Dodging at all.
11. Armored body parts receive no bonus to AR from Dodging at all, instead their AR follows the vanilla formula for the appropriate armor skill.
What gives?
1. Going fully unarmored is quite fair now. Adding some spell- or potion-derived Sanctuary on top of that can make one nearly invincible.
2. Going full Light Armor with Dodging=100 still makes that skill worth maxing out with a whopping 17% evasion bonus. It's probably overall more
efficient than fully unarmored at 33% bonus evasion, but requires maxing out two skills at half the rate each so it's quite fair. Your ass is gonna get kicked for twice as long before you are finally able to reap of the fruit.
3. Going full Medium might be not quite worth maxing out Unarmored, but still makes a big difference at 11% bonus evasion.
4. Wearing just a Light / Medium / Heavy cuirass makes for a very intriguing compromise scenario with a 23% bonus evasion plus a bit from the cuirass itself unless it's Heavy, and a significant AR bonus. Dodging + Heavy, Dodging + Medium, and Dodging + Light all become viable with only a few armor pieces equipped. "Partially Armored" is a style that combines two skills and is slow to train, but yields more than the mere sum of its constituents and trains two Attributes instead of just one.
5. You absolutely need to wear little to no armor if you want to train Dodging (Unarmored).
6. Yet it is not mandatory to wear no armor at all to make progress, a cuirass and a shield will do! You'll end up training both Dodging and an armor skill at the same time (which is the goal anyway)