After reviewing a bit of feedback, I've fixed a few bugs and oversights, so I'm going to consider this mod "done" for the time being. If there are any lingering bugs, issues, or you feel there is some sort of balancing issue, let me know and I'll do my best to fix them.
The only potential balancing issue currently would be maces and warhammers. Their high burst damage, especially from warhammers, makes staggering enemies or the player much easier, especially early game. However, I think their downsides balance this, as unskilled users will have a harder time getting that first hit with these slow weapons, their lower reaches make them a more risky choice in general, and quick players could often avoid their devastating blows. They still fill my idea of the brutal crushing weapons they should be.
Also, a reminder that you NEED Morrowind Code Patch or OpenMW for the game to properly use reaches lower than 1. I WILL NOT make a separate version for those of you not using either for two reasons:
1. You're hurting yourself in the long run by not using either. Both fix some bugs and provide more stability to this old game. OpenMW in particular is a much more modern game engine. I've used it for a while, and it makes the game VERY smooth during gameplay. Some mods require one or the other as well, so you might as well get one.
2. I'm lazy
Overall, I do hope those of you who decide to try the mod enjoy it. I'll still be open to feedback, so the possibility of me changing things is still there.
Hey, how do you get your weapon hover window to show the range and speed? I'm making my own mod for my personal tastes (inspired by yours!) and I really need all the stats to show up in game.
This mod is in my modlist and will never leave. One request i'd make of the author would be to document the formulas or intuition that were used to decide how to modify each weapon. It doesnt really have to be super in-depth, just a rough estimation, or some notes. The reason is so that we could modify the weapon stats of new weapons that get introduced by mods, such as in my case 'morrowind advanced', in order to preserve some degree of consistency.
Dude, I mean modder... When talking about a weapon realism, daggers are the Beasts. They tend to be stiffer than swords, thus providing an enormously dangerous thrust damage, and in knightly historical context they would be used to stab through holes in the armor after fair amount of grappling and wrestling, or faints with the main weapon. But you have to come inside the reach. I have searched for a dagger mod that would not break the immersion for my character sir Pelion of Dundarach, but in vain.
Absolutely amazing mod, the feel and use on weapons is much more immersive and exactly what I had in mind. Major kudos, currently there is no other weapon mod that fixes weapon ranges (including hand to hand) and balances every aspect so well while keeping the vanilla feel to things.
Any chance you could add a patch to the mod that makes the proper changes to the weapons added in by restored content mods (such as cutting floor https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/47307?tab=description) ? I understand the weapons are already in the CS but no data has been provided for them, in my opinion this makes them a good candidate for a patch ;)
Ah I recently discovered a major issue with the mod; certain creatures attack ranges have also been effected by the mod (I don't believe this is intentional) and their attacks will always be out of range and will never connect unless you stand still directly in their face, even slowly strafing from them makes their attacks completely not connect (I tested this, walked around naked at 0 fatigue and was never hit by a winged twilight, atronachs, or any dwemer mob). I'm guessing this has to do with the reduction to hand to hand range. This completely trivializes most dangerous creatures and I'll have to discontinue the use of this mod until this is addressed, such a shame because combats against npcs are amazing.
Hey, glad you're enjoying the mod! I might be able to do a patch at some point, but I've moved on from modding for the moment and have other things to do. I make no promises, but it's possible. That's too bad about the reach though. I have rolled back to the previous mod version, and the current one got added to misc files, because why not. Just note that I keep the previous versions on here in case something breaks in an update, so be sure to check the previous versions first. For now, if you find anything broken, do let me know because I don't think I could roll that back.
The mod seems to be working well, but unfortunately, I had to roll back the H2H reach change. It affects the reach of other mobs, which makes it VERY hard for them to hit you. Even so, it's an unfortunate balance issue too, as virtually every weapon would be able to outrange a creature with minimal effort. The current changes will likely be final unless something horribly broken is found. It's a low chance, but I still might come out with a version that "adds" reach to every weapon, with 1.0 being the baseline. However, this also leads to a possible imbalance, since every single weapon could easily outrange every creature except things that use weapons. There could be changes in the future, but for now, the mod will stay as is, with the updated weapon ranges, but the vanilla H2H range. As always, I'm willing to listen to feedback or suggestions.
Silly question but Im new to modding with Mod Organizer 2 and I was wondering how I can tell if your mod is working in game? I dont have any daedric weapons in game atm to compare with your pictures. Thanks!
If you're using MO2, make sure you install the mod and activate both the mod itself and the plugins. Plugins should automatically activate once you activate the mod though. If you're just testing the mod to see if it works, there's nothing wrong with using the console to cheat in a daedric weapon just to check. But the easiest thing to do in game would be to find a mace, halberd, or axe and just comparing the stats in game to the stats on the Morrowind wiki. Those weapons have the most obvious changes in game. For example, a vanilla iron mace can do at most 13 chop damage. I modded them to do 31 chopping damage, but they have a slower speed and less reach. If you see 31 damage on an iron mace, you should be good to go. Hope that helps!
I like the look of a lot of these changes, and you were especially thorough and consistent with reach stats, which is great. 2 questions, though:
1. Have you tested with the reach stats that are less than 1? These will only work if the MCP is installed, and I'm not sure how low you can get without issues. 2. It looks like H2H reach hasn't changed. It's set to 1 by default, so H2H is going to be longer than most short blades, maces, etc.
Suggestion: if testing shows issues, or you don't want to require the MCP, you could just add .4 or .5 to all of your settings (and tweak staves/spears/halberds).
To answer your first question, I'm aware that reaches lower than 1 don't tend to work in vanilla Morrowind. I personally use OpenMW, which is a complete engine rewrite, though I'm pretty sure Morrowind Code Patch works as you say. I actually mentioned this in the description, but in the installation section. I'll update the Reach portion to more effectively explain this. From my testing, the weapons with shorter reaches were definitely working as such. Weapons with a reach of 1 could barely reach when you could see the name of someone. Shorter weapons like daggers whiffed at that range, and you really had to close the gap.
For your second question, fists didn't show up as a normal weapon, so I just kind of overlooked it. I recently found out it's actually a game setting, so I could just edit that. I'm a bit of a rookie modder, so I don't quite know everything about the construction set. I'll likely upload that as the current version, but keep the current version around just in case there are unknown consequences to doing that.
That's a very clever solution for those without MCP or OpenMW though. When I have the time and motivation, I'll probably make versions of each plugin with that idea in mind, with the unarmed range of 1 as a baseline, and every other weapon getting longer and longer. Keep in mind its a lot of tedious editing in the construction set. Certainly not hard, but time-consuming, so it may be a while before I actually do it, to be honest. I'd still recommend the normal version though, as that'll likely be the most visually realistic. Otherwise the reach on all weapons is gonna be pretty massive compared to vanilla.
Thank you for the feedback and support though. I'm glad you like the look of the mod so far. Don't be afraid to leave any more feedback, suggestions, or concerns.
GMST edits and other dirty edits should be fixed. If the issue persists, please let me know what you're using that finds the edits. I'm relatively inexperienced at modding Morrowind, and just in general. I used TESTool to clean all the files, and no other dirty edits are coming up.
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18 comments
The only potential balancing issue currently would be maces and warhammers. Their high burst damage, especially from warhammers, makes staggering enemies or the player much easier, especially early game. However, I think their downsides balance this, as unskilled users will have a harder time getting that first hit with these slow weapons, their lower reaches make them a more risky choice in general, and quick players could often avoid their devastating blows. They still fill my idea of the brutal crushing weapons they should be.
Also, a reminder that you NEED Morrowind Code Patch or OpenMW for the game to properly use reaches lower than 1. I WILL NOT make a separate version for those of you not using either for two reasons:
1. You're hurting yourself in the long run by not using either. Both fix some bugs and provide more stability to this old game. OpenMW in particular is a much more modern game engine. I've used it for a while, and it makes the game VERY smooth during gameplay. Some mods require one or the other as well, so you might as well get one.
2. I'm lazy
Overall, I do hope those of you who decide to try the mod enjoy it. I'll still be open to feedback, so the possibility of me changing things is still there.
One request i'd make of the author would be to document the formulas or intuition that were used to decide how to modify each weapon. It doesnt really have to be super in-depth, just a rough estimation, or some notes. The reason is so that we could modify the weapon stats of new weapons that get introduced by mods, such as in my case 'morrowind advanced', in order to preserve some degree of consistency.
Great work!
Any chance you could add a patch to the mod that makes the proper changes to the weapons added in by restored content mods (such as cutting floor https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/47307?tab=description) ? I understand the weapons are already in the CS but no data has been provided for them, in my opinion this makes them a good candidate for a patch ;)
That's too bad about the reach though. I have rolled back to the previous mod version, and the current one got added to misc files, because why not. Just note that I keep the previous versions on here in case something breaks in an update, so be sure to check the previous versions first. For now, if you find anything broken, do let me know because I don't think I could roll that back.
The current changes will likely be final unless something horribly broken is found. It's a low chance, but I still might come out with a version that "adds" reach to every weapon, with 1.0 being the baseline. However, this also leads to a possible imbalance, since every single weapon could easily outrange every creature except things that use weapons.
There could be changes in the future, but for now, the mod will stay as is, with the updated weapon ranges, but the vanilla H2H range.
As always, I'm willing to listen to feedback or suggestions.
If you're just testing the mod to see if it works, there's nothing wrong with using the console to cheat in a daedric weapon just to check. But the easiest thing to do in game would be to find a mace, halberd, or axe and just comparing the stats in game to the stats on the Morrowind wiki. Those weapons have the most obvious changes in game. For example, a vanilla iron mace can do at most 13 chop damage. I modded them to do 31 chopping damage, but they have a slower speed and less reach. If you see 31 damage on an iron mace, you should be good to go.
Hope that helps!
1. Have you tested with the reach stats that are less than 1? These will only work if the MCP is installed, and I'm not sure how low you can get without issues.
2. It looks like H2H reach hasn't changed. It's set to 1 by default, so H2H is going to be longer than most short blades, maces, etc.
Suggestion: if testing shows issues, or you don't want to require the MCP, you could just add .4 or .5 to all of your settings (and tweak staves/spears/halberds).
And thanks for releasing the mod!
To answer your first question, I'm aware that reaches lower than 1 don't tend to work in vanilla Morrowind. I personally use OpenMW, which is a complete engine rewrite, though I'm pretty sure Morrowind Code Patch works as you say. I actually mentioned this in the description, but in the installation section. I'll update the Reach portion to more effectively explain this.
From my testing, the weapons with shorter reaches were definitely working as such. Weapons with a reach of 1 could barely reach when you could see the name of someone. Shorter weapons like daggers whiffed at that range, and you really had to close the gap.
For your second question, fists didn't show up as a normal weapon, so I just kind of overlooked it. I recently found out it's actually a game setting, so I could just edit that. I'm a bit of a rookie modder, so I don't quite know everything about the construction set. I'll likely upload that as the current version, but keep the current version around just in case there are unknown consequences to doing that.
That's a very clever solution for those without MCP or OpenMW though. When I have the time and motivation, I'll probably make versions of each plugin with that idea in mind, with the unarmed range of 1 as a baseline, and every other weapon getting longer and longer. Keep in mind its a lot of tedious editing in the construction set. Certainly not hard, but time-consuming, so it may be a while before I actually do it, to be honest.
I'd still recommend the normal version though, as that'll likely be the most visually realistic. Otherwise the reach on all weapons is gonna be pretty massive compared to vanilla.
Thank you for the feedback and support though. I'm glad you like the look of the mod so far. Don't be afraid to leave any more feedback, suggestions, or concerns.