I like this mod, and would love to see continuation of it for Tamriel Rebuild data and other mods. It makes significant difference and didn't decrease fps at least for me, as I have much more problems with lot of objects placed by mods and thus high polygon count, in regards of affecting my game performance. (I'm running OpenMW 0.47 stable and 0.48 various builds.)
I have some points and questions:
* Which one of archives should be installed ? I found some have same content as others, at least name wise but I know there are different packages with different height / bump intensity, so it is expected, but also every package have some files that are not included in other. I compared them installed via Mod Organizer 2. I basically tried reorder installed folders in MO2 until I had most textures, and then overwrite first by second then by third and so on, with experimental as last one.
* I rescaled some of the textures bigger than 512 via ordenador, didn't seems to affect performance in any way (subjectively, I just enable fps meter and run around Vvardenfell), and I don't see visual difference (maybe later during testing my mod setup I found that reflection on walls are bit pixelated, but it didn't bothered me much)
* In one package, some textures don't have generated mipmaps, I don't know if that matters much, but I generated them via ordenador and didn't registered any visual difference.
* Any atlased textures generated from MET or Intelligent Textures or any texture replacer wouldn't have appropriate *_n.dds / *_spec.dds equivalent. It is not a problem of this mod of course. I changed the script from Project Atlas to generate atlased texture from yours and they were huge (20 mb +), but then I experimented with generating normals and speculars from base atlas texture because it was easier than editing bat scripts. It went well, I ended up with smaller textures - MB wise and they doesn't look any worse.
* As touched in previous points, is it necessary to have such detailed and big textures? Again, I didn't noticed any performance difference between my personal edited version and original of yours, neither visual nor performance one.
* There is little problem with naming, morrowind textures for necks have _n.dds at end of their names, therefore it's sufficient to rename textures from your mod in similar way as below: tx_b_n_breton_m_n.dds > tx_b_n_breton_m_n_n.dds, so yours don't overwrite them.
* In OpenMW, 0.47+, default patterns for engine to recognize normal / normal height / specular / diffusespec maps are: # _n and _nh also for terrain normal map pattern = _n normal height map pattern = _nh specular map pattern = _spec # only for terrain terrain specular map pattern = _diffusespec It might have been different in previous version, I don't know, but I supposed the *_h.dds have visual effect in game, but I didn't noticed any. Then I renamed them to *_nh.dds, so engine would beable to use them, but everything was visually broken (basically black & white image with alpha channeled areas applied on top of textures). I checked them in IrfanView, and they are in scales of grey, which they are not supposed to be if meant as a normal height maps (There is other mod that works with default *_nh.dds named textures, it contains *_nh.dds files and when opened in IrfanView, its textures appear rather similar to normal maps and are violet + black, not grey => they contain different types of information in different channels, as they suppose to). So, I deleted yours and it didn't make any difference visually. Therefore - what are your _h.dds for? Are they to be used with other engine (older OpenMW or MGE) or are do they have purpose ?
* I didn't encountered anything visually distracting, I only deleted some normals for books, pages and notes, as they made them look thick like pancakes :), it was easy to filter them out by name.
* What software, method and setting did you used please? I tried some freeware normal maps generators and endup with aptly named one called just "normal map generator", as it can do it in batches. Results vary mostly on level of details in base texture and of course settings, but having to change settings for every type of textures would be major pain in the ass. I didn't found anything streamlined enough and able to make some reusable presets for different types of textures - for example shiny and rough preset for rocks, more shiny and more refined one for weapons, only little bit for book covers and so on.
Anyway, thanks for mod, I was in bliss when I saw the effect first time, I didn't even know that small slaughterfish can look sooo ... fishy and tree bark soooo ... barky? and rocks have this cellulitis like in real life nature and such :D.
PS: Static screenshots don't serve this and similar mods well, effect is best seen in game.
Actually the normals look kinda like height maps (as in _nh rather than _n) and the height maps look kinda like speculars(_spec rather than _h), this is a bit weird and the mod description isn't clarifying much of anything.
Height Maps and Normal maps are both 'Bump Maps', but use different information to tell the game how to light a texture.
Height Maps, eponymously, are a grey-scale texture file that tells the game where a decal should appear to jut-out or raise, like a bas-relief or brick-and-mortar. Normals Maps define the shape and orientation of these different 'bumps', and how those gaps should transition smoothly. Both of these contribute to making your stones and rocks look '3D' and not painted onto a flat surface.
If you experience visual artifacts or warped textures, particularly on faces/heads, its probably because another replacer you use is significantly different than the original texture the bump maps were made for. You can likely solve this by deleting the relevant bump maps in this file's archives.
I am a bit lost here - there are normal maps, height maps and bump maps - which version should I use for OpenMW? Preferably for good visual effect but not much fps impact. Or if I need to install all of them, what is correct order? Reading comments below made it even more confusing.
Hello. Thanks for the mod, but there are couple issues with it: 1) There are several diffuse textures among normals tx_b_n_argonian_f_n.dds tx_b_n_argonian_m_n.dds tx_b_n_breton_f_n.dds tx_b_n_breton_m_n.dds tx_b_n_dark elf_f_n.dds tx_b_n_dark elf_m_n.dds tx_b_n_high elf_f_n.dds tx_b_n_high elf_m_n.dds tx_b_n_imperial_f_n.dds tx_b_n_imperial_m_n.dds tx_b_n_khajiit_f_n.dds tx_b_n_khajiit_m_n.dds tx_b_n_nord_f_n.dds tx_b_n_nord_m_n.dds tx_b_n_orc_f_n.dds tx_b_n_orc_m_n.dds tx_b_n_redguard_f_n.dds tx_b_n_redguard_m_n.dds tx_b_n_wood elf_f_n.dds tx_b_n_wood elf_m_n.dds tx_b_vivec_n.dds tx_creature_ashslave_n.dds tx_creature_ashzombie_n.dds tx_b_n_dark elf_f_la_n.dds, tx_b_n_dark elf_f_lf_n.dds - these ones were probably broken I wasn't able to open them.
2) tx_imp_colthin_01_n.dds and tx_imp_colthin_02_n.dds have size 4k. I noticed that when created atlas from it.
3) Lot of textures are missing mipmaps.
4) What the point to save _n textures in DXT5 (BC3) format? Especially for equipment. In Oblivion spec map was stored in alpha channel of normal map but it's not like that for OpenMW according to docs. Normal map can be combined with height map in alpha channel and named _nh for parallax effect as I understand.
54 comments
I have some points and questions:
* Which one of archives should be installed ? I found some have same content as others, at least name wise but I know there are different packages with different height / bump intensity, so it is expected, but also every package have some files that are not included in other. I compared them installed via Mod Organizer 2. I basically tried reorder installed folders in MO2 until I had most textures, and then overwrite first by second then by third and so on, with experimental as last one.
* I rescaled some of the textures bigger than 512 via ordenador, didn't seems to affect performance in any way (subjectively, I just enable fps meter and run around Vvardenfell), and I don't see visual difference (maybe later during testing my mod setup I found that reflection on walls are bit pixelated, but it didn't bothered me much)
* In one package, some textures don't have generated mipmaps, I don't know if that matters much, but I generated them via ordenador and didn't registered any visual difference.
* Any atlased textures generated from MET or Intelligent Textures or any texture replacer wouldn't have appropriate *_n.dds / *_spec.dds equivalent. It is not a problem of this mod of course. I changed the script from Project Atlas to generate atlased texture from yours and they were huge (20 mb +), but then I experimented with generating normals and speculars from base atlas texture because it was easier than editing bat scripts. It went well, I ended up with smaller textures - MB wise and they doesn't look any worse.
* As touched in previous points, is it necessary to have such detailed and big textures? Again, I didn't noticed any performance difference between my personal edited version and original of yours, neither visual nor performance one.
* There is little problem with naming, morrowind textures for necks have _n.dds at end of their names, therefore it's sufficient to rename textures from your mod in similar way as below:
tx_b_n_breton_m_n.dds > tx_b_n_breton_m_n_n.dds, so yours don't overwrite them.
* In OpenMW, 0.47+, default patterns for engine to recognize normal / normal height / specular / diffusespec maps are:
# _n and _nh also for terrain
It might have been different in previous version, I don't know, but I supposed the *_h.dds have visual effect in game, but I didn't noticed any. Then I renamed them to *_nh.dds, so engine would beable to use them, but everything was visually broken (basically black & white image with alpha channeled areas applied on top of textures). I checked them in IrfanView, and they are in scales of grey, which they are not supposed to be if meant as a normal height maps (There is other mod that works with default *_nh.dds named textures, it contains *_nh.dds files and when opened in IrfanView, its textures appear rather similar to normal maps and are violet + black, not grey => they contain different types of information in different channels, as they suppose to). So, I deleted yours and it didn't make any difference visually. Therefore -normal map pattern = _n
normal height map pattern = _nh
specular map pattern = _spec
# only for terrain
terrain specular map pattern = _diffusespec
what are your _h.dds for? Are they to be used with other engine (older OpenMW or MGE) or are do they have purpose ?
* I didn't encountered anything visually distracting, I only deleted some normals for books, pages and notes, as they made them look thick like pancakes :), it was easy to filter them out by name.
* What software, method and setting did you used please? I tried some freeware normal maps generators and endup with aptly named one called just "normal map generator", as it can do it in batches. Results vary mostly on level of details in base texture and of course settings, but having to change settings for every type of textures would be major pain in the ass. I didn't found anything streamlined enough and able to make some reusable presets for different types of textures - for example shiny and rough preset for rocks, more shiny and more refined one for weapons, only little bit for book covers and so on.
Anyway, thanks for mod, I was in bliss when I saw the effect first time, I didn't even know that small slaughterfish can look sooo ... fishy and tree bark soooo ... barky? and rocks have this cellulitis like in real life nature and such :D.
PS: Static screenshots don't serve this and similar mods well, effect is best seen in game.
Yes, you should install both of these main files.
Height Maps and Normal maps are both 'Bump Maps', but use different information to tell the game how to light a texture.
Height Maps, eponymously, are a grey-scale texture file that tells the game where a decal should appear to jut-out or raise, like a bas-relief or brick-and-mortar. Normals Maps define the shape and orientation of these different 'bumps', and how those gaps should transition smoothly. Both of these contribute to making your stones and rocks look '3D' and not painted onto a flat surface.
If you experience visual artifacts or warped textures, particularly on faces/heads, its probably because another replacer you use is significantly different than the original texture the bump maps were made for. You can likely solve this by deleting the relevant bump maps in this file's archives.
Or if I need to install all of them, what is correct order? Reading comments below made it even more confusing.
Also, using normal maps has some bad effect on Socucius' face:
without normal maps
https://imgur.com/OTVTKfW
with normal maps
https://imgur.com/kCe0Ktn
I am using OpenMW 0.47, facelift mod + familiar faces.
1) There are several diffuse textures among normals
tx_b_n_argonian_f_n.dds
tx_b_n_argonian_m_n.dds
tx_b_n_breton_f_n.dds
tx_b_n_breton_m_n.dds
tx_b_n_dark elf_f_n.dds
tx_b_n_dark elf_m_n.dds
tx_b_n_high elf_f_n.dds
tx_b_n_high elf_m_n.dds
tx_b_n_imperial_f_n.dds
tx_b_n_imperial_m_n.dds
tx_b_n_khajiit_f_n.dds
tx_b_n_khajiit_m_n.dds
tx_b_n_nord_f_n.dds
tx_b_n_nord_m_n.dds
tx_b_n_orc_f_n.dds
tx_b_n_orc_m_n.dds
tx_b_n_redguard_f_n.dds
tx_b_n_redguard_m_n.dds
tx_b_n_wood elf_f_n.dds
tx_b_n_wood elf_m_n.dds
tx_b_vivec_n.dds
tx_creature_ashslave_n.dds
tx_creature_ashzombie_n.dds
tx_b_n_dark elf_f_la_n.dds, tx_b_n_dark elf_f_lf_n.dds - these ones were probably broken I wasn't able to open them.
2) tx_imp_colthin_01_n.dds and tx_imp_colthin_02_n.dds have size 4k. I noticed that when created atlas from it.
3) Lot of textures are missing mipmaps.
4) What the point to save _n textures in DXT5 (BC3) format? Especially for equipment. In Oblivion spec map was stored in alpha channel of normal map but it's not like that for OpenMW according to docs. Normal map can be combined with height map in alpha channel and named _nh for parallax effect as I understand.