To anyone out there that is having doubts about the effectiveness of this mod, I just wanted to say this:
I tried it out wearing uniform for greenery at the southern entrance of Munoko Ya Nioka Station, (in daylight of course), and am very happy with the balance it brought to my gameplay. At the southern entrance there are perfectly set bushes with 3 different densities and 2 guards periodically walk past them. The densest bush left me completely hidden when prone and crouch, and even standing. The least dense bush got me detected from even further while being stealth prone, but surely beat having no cover at all. In another instance when the enemies were in an alert state, I was crouching in the most densest bush with an enemy facing my direction standing just a few feet away and did not notice me, but instead another soldier from further, did.
It brings an interesting dynamic to the game, as how well you remain unseen depends on your tactics, but it is also somewhat uncertain - as it would be in reality. I have recently played with 200% guard sight, but after finding this mod I am thinking of raising it again.
Great work (I know it is not original, but still.)
Thanks for sharing your experience! I'll sticky this post, it's more useful than my description if I'm being honest. I usually play with 200% guard sight as well. I updated this mod just because I liked it. Beat the whole game using it actually. It's not a full rework of the camo system for sure, but it adds some balance and coherence regarding the actual patterns and colors. Thanks for the kind words - if the original author ever comes across this post, I'm sure he'll be happy to read it :)
Good question indeed! I'll pin it to this thread, could be useful to someone else. Long story short, at first this version of the mod was just an update, fixing the broken description for the Energy Wall. Then, I rebuilt the mod from the ground up using "Deminified LUAs" - meaning up-to-date & more readable script files. Later, I added camo bonuses not only for Swimsuits, but Meg/Goblin suits as well.
So in a nutshell: - This version is up-to-date with the latest version of TPP. You won't have any broken item description, and further modding is far easier. - This version adds camo bonuses for Megalodon and Goblin suits.
No other changes (for now) - I have plans to do more with this mod, but it's on hold for the time being. Oh and for the record: I reached out to NakarG but it seems they have moved on to other projects. Massive thanks to them though, I only built upon their awesome work.
Hello, I just want to start off by saying I love these types of mods. I have been using a custom edit that mixes NakarG's mod and another mod that is not available anymore, that makes the camos more realistic. I was looking through the values and there are only a few differences between what you have and what I had in my mix, probably due to you having the "Deminified LUAs".
I noticed that the last two "camos" were not labeled and I wanted to tell you that from using another mod, I know they are "Ocelot" and "Quiet", specifically the ones that you play as on FOBs. I have tested this by setting all of their values to "99999", which basically makes you invisible, then running around in front of NPCs.
I would love to pick your brain sometime to see why you choose the materials you did for the each camo. Also, maybe see if I can work with you to make a "perfect" list of indexes, that would work to make each camo actually effective everywhere it should be. You can also use negative values to make it so you are more visible on materials that wouldn't match the camo.
Hey there, The reason why your own mix is similar is because of NakarG's work I believe. The deminified LUA is just the vanilla values, but I ported the values from NakarG's Camo Consistency to use Deminified LUAs so that further modding would be easier.
About Ocelot & Quiet - interesting find! I struggled to identify those two - I thought they were debug stuff or cut content. As for why I chose to pick this or that material - the truth is, I don't really understand how the system works in details either. That's all NakarG's work to be clear, and I don't know how exactly they were able to identify each material. They would probably be the best person to ask about it, but they have been inactive for a while. I tried to reach out to them, without answer sadly.
Ah, that's too bad. I’ve tried looking for the actual texture files myself, but no luck there either. The only idea I had for figuring out what works where was to go through each material, one set to 0 and the rest to 99999, testing them one by one. I was really hoping to avoid that level of trial and error, though.
I believe there is an index of known surfaces. Here, at the beginning of the deminified player2_camouf_param.lua, this and this. Not sure if that's useful, as I don't quite understand those myself.
You may want to ask the good people at Modder's Heaven, they should be able to help.
I've been trying to modify the lua file to my taste, but it has been a pain in the ass. How can i use 'this.camoTable[camoType][materialType]=50' to modify the lua file more easily?
I have no experience in programming at all so I really can't help you with that. The comments in the LUA file are from TinManTex, the person who "deminified" the LUA scripts. You may want to ask on the Modder's Heaven Discord.
Hey there, from what I understand the description are not displayed when using this mod along with the Chinese UI mod? I do not speak nor understand Chinese though, so I don't think I can make a Chinese version of it I'm afraid.
Glad to see someone's keeping the camo mods alive around here, say I have a request for ya.
Since I've lost motivation and I'm too lazy to go through and make any changes on these mods, would you like to port and update my Camo Revamp - Classic mod, and change them to your liking?
They're just camo mods that try to give a more accurate camo effect from the older MGS games. I'd gladly let you tweak and edit my camo mods from now on, since you know how to make a camo mod better than I could!
Here's the link to my mod btw; https://www.nexusmods.com/metalgearsolidvtpp/mods/1627
I'm humbled that you came to me for such a request really, but I'll have to decline. I already have my plate full as of now - I can't even make progress on other modding projects I've got, some of them are late like you wouldn't believe... That said, I only picked up on what NakarG made before me and polished it up a bit - I'm sure other people in the community are way more knowledgeable on the camo system than I ever will be.
I'm just glad you responded to begin with, but I've tried consulting to other people about the camo mods and such, however no one responded back with what I needed help with.
So at the very least, can I ask for any camo notes or information you have on camo mods, just so once I do have the motivation to make a new camo mod or update my current one?
Is there something in particular you struggled with? The camo system itself is rather basic from a user pov, but it's really hard to pinpoint what does what in the LUA files. The one where all the values are defined is basically unreadable unless you use deminified LUAs. Those have a lot of very useful comments that helped me a tremendous lot tracing back NakarG's steps for this mod revamp. That said, I am no expert on the topic by any means, there's a lot about it I do not understand.
hi Sleepwalker. the item description for Citrullus Two Tone is incorrect. item description says "sand and plain or red soil" but it's actually effective on red soil and rock.
Hey there, Reading your comment, I was absolutely sure someone had mentioned this before and that I fixed it when reworked the mod. Turns out it was you, it was 2 years ago, and I must've forgot about it... Really sorry about that, and thanks a lot for letting me know once again. I'll fix it as soon as possible!
I just uploaded a new version with that description fixed. I'm sorry about the 2 years delay, I must've forgot about this issue by the time I got to revamping the mod. Thank you so much for bringing it to my attention twice, else it would've stayed that way forever.
Thanks for the compliment, but to be fair NakarG did most of the hard work. In any case I'm glad you enjoy it, and thanks again for reminding me about the description being off. Have a good one!
Hey there, Just install Quiet Retro Fashion first, and then Camo Consistency after it. SnakeBite will let you know that there is a mod conflict but it is safe to ignore it. There's a big text file that contains each and every item and camo descriptions and if I recall correctly, QRF adds a bit of flavour text to some entries while this mod edits the description to reflect the changes made to the actual camo system. That's why there is a conflict. In other words, if you install CC first and QRF last, you won't get the proper camo descriptions of this mod - but the actual changes to camo values will still work as intended.
Hey there, I've played my fair share of FOBs with this mod installed (and many others) and never got banned. I'd say it's safe to play FOBs with this mod. Cheers!
Hey man, any chance of releasing a little (kinda cheaty) version of this mod adding the (alleged) night camo of the Black Ocelot fatigue to all the Sneaking Suits (GZ, TPP, Battle Dress, Solid Snake...)? I just think it would make sense that they had it too.
I don't think its possible to be honest. The way the system works is that there's an index of surfaces (grassy, sandy etc), and for each camo I can set whether or not it gets a bonus on a given surface. Eg, I can give a camo bonus when standing in sandy surfaces to the Sneaking Suit if I wanted to.
Thing is - the Black Ocelot camo has no set bonus on any surface whatsoever in the file I'm working with, leading me to believe that its night bonus (I do believe there is one) is hardcoded or defined elsewhere. In other words, I can't just copy the values of the Black Ocelot camo to the Sneaking Suit, it wouldn't do anything. As a matter of fact, the Sneaking Suits don't have any surface on which they get a bonus either, so the "silent footstep" property is also hardcoded and/or defined elsewhere.
I've been doing some testing, and noticed that none of the camos reported by Camo Index UI by CantStoptheBipBop have any effect. The only real effect is standing, crouched, and prone, and whether or not it's night. On average, during the day with sunny weather in Afghanistan, I get about 7.8% without moving with ANY camouflage in ANY environment.
It makes me think either the mod isn't working properly, or the Camo Index UI doesn't report the camo bonus. There might have been some update between now and then that changed out the camo system works, or a complete file restructure, but I really have no idea.
Hey there, From what I can tell reading the mod's page & comments, Camo Index UI is not able to read any modified camo table. If I understand correctly, Index UI has all vanilla values from "player2_camouf_param.lua" stored in its own IH script, it then does a bunch of calculation based on it and finally gives you an index in percentage. CC is nothing but a modified "player2_camouf_param.lua", so Index UI is doing a calculation that's based on vanilla values.
I'm too unfamiliar with Camo Index UI (And IH scripts in general) to give you an answer with a sufficient degree of certainty though. Something seems off, can you screen your modlist perhaps?
This is the modlist I've been running for a bit now. There really shouldn't be anything that touches the camos besides CCR, and I had to install the index UI manually since it doesn't work with snakebite.
The good news is that everything seems okay. CCR should be working as intended.
The bad news is that given the camo index you get using Camo Index UI it seems like it is not working properly for some reason. I can't help you with that I'm afraid, I don't know how the mod works exactly. Might be worth a shot asking in the comments section of Index UI's page, or in the Modder's Heaven Discord. You'll most likely find people with enough know-how to help you out.
How to mod camouflage values? Let's say I want animals camo be effective in everywhere what do I need to do? I don't think simply changing the .lua file would work, plus I'm not sure which values to change.
Sorry for answering now, I must've missed your comment. If you want to have say animals to be effective everywhere, you'd have to find it in the lua file and you'll see a bunch of 0,50,50,50,0 etc. Apply a value of "50" everywhere. It's basically binary - either it does not apply a bonus (= a value of 0) or it does (= a value of 50). I haven't tried that myself though, so no guarantee that it works as intended and/or doesn't crash!
109 comments
I tried it out wearing uniform for greenery at the southern entrance of Munoko Ya Nioka Station, (in daylight of course), and am very happy with the balance it brought to my gameplay. At the southern entrance there are perfectly set bushes with 3 different densities and 2 guards periodically walk past them. The densest bush left me completely hidden when prone and crouch, and even standing. The least dense bush got me detected from even further while being stealth prone, but surely beat having no cover at all. In another instance when the enemies were in an alert state, I was crouching in the most densest bush with an enemy facing my direction standing just a few feet away and did not notice me, but instead another soldier from further, did.
It brings an interesting dynamic to the game, as how well you remain unseen depends on your tactics, but it is also somewhat uncertain - as it would be in reality.
I have recently played with 200% guard sight, but after finding this mod I am thinking of raising it again.
Great work (I know it is not original, but still.)
I usually play with 200% guard sight as well. I updated this mod just because I liked it. Beat the whole game using it actually. It's not a full rework of the camo system for sure, but it adds some balance and coherence regarding the actual patterns and colors.
Thanks for the kind words - if the original author ever comes across this post, I'm sure he'll be happy to read it :)
Good question indeed! I'll pin it to this thread, could be useful to someone else.
Long story short, at first this version of the mod was just an update, fixing the broken description for the Energy Wall. Then, I rebuilt the mod from the ground up using "Deminified LUAs" - meaning up-to-date & more readable script files. Later, I added camo bonuses not only for Swimsuits, but Meg/Goblin suits as well.
So in a nutshell:
- This version is up-to-date with the latest version of TPP. You won't have any broken item description, and further modding is far easier.
- This version adds camo bonuses for Megalodon and Goblin suits.
No other changes (for now) - I have plans to do more with this mod, but it's on hold for the time being.
Oh and for the record: I reached out to NakarG but it seems they have moved on to other projects. Massive thanks to them though, I only built upon their awesome work.
Cheers!
I noticed that the last two "camos" were not labeled and I wanted to tell you that from using another mod, I know they are "Ocelot" and "Quiet", specifically the ones that you play as on FOBs. I have tested this by setting all of their values to "99999", which basically makes you invisible, then running around in front of NPCs.
I would love to pick your brain sometime to see why you choose the materials you did for the each camo. Also, maybe see if I can work with you to make a "perfect" list of indexes, that would work to make each camo actually effective everywhere it should be. You can also use negative values to make it so you are more visible on materials that wouldn't match the camo.
The reason why your own mix is similar is because of NakarG's work I believe. The deminified LUA is just the vanilla values, but I ported the values from NakarG's Camo Consistency to use Deminified LUAs so that further modding would be easier.
About Ocelot & Quiet - interesting find! I struggled to identify those two - I thought they were debug stuff or cut content.
As for why I chose to pick this or that material - the truth is, I don't really understand how the system works in details either. That's all NakarG's work to be clear, and I don't know how exactly they were able to identify each material. They would probably be the best person to ask about it, but they have been inactive for a while. I tried to reach out to them, without answer sadly.
You may want to ask the good people at Modder's Heaven, they should be able to help.
I have no experience in programming at all so I really can't help you with that. The comments in the LUA file are from TinManTex, the person who "deminified" the LUA scripts. You may want to ask on the Modder's Heaven Discord.
It's not much, but I hope that helps. Cheers!
Which ones exactly?
https://www.nexusmods.com/metalgearsolidvtpp/mods/1223
Since I've lost motivation and I'm too lazy to go through and make any changes on these mods, would you like to port and update my Camo Revamp - Classic mod, and change them to your liking?
They're just camo mods that try to give a more accurate camo effect from the older MGS games. I'd gladly let you tweak and edit my camo mods from now on, since you know how to make a camo mod better than I could!
Here's the link to my mod btw; https://www.nexusmods.com/metalgearsolidvtpp/mods/1627
I'm humbled that you came to me for such a request really, but I'll have to decline. I already have my plate full as of now - I can't even make progress on other modding projects I've got, some of them are late like you wouldn't believe... That said, I only picked up on what NakarG made before me and polished it up a bit - I'm sure other people in the community are way more knowledgeable on the camo system than I ever will be.
Cheers and have a good one :)
So at the very least, can I ask for any camo notes or information you have on camo mods, just so once I do have the motivation to make a new camo mod or update my current one?
Whenever you have the time, no rush!
Reading your comment, I was absolutely sure someone had mentioned this before and that I fixed it when reworked the mod. Turns out it was you, it was 2 years ago, and I must've forgot about it...
Really sorry about that, and thanks a lot for letting me know once again. I'll fix it as soon as possible!
Cheers!
I just uploaded a new version with that description fixed. I'm sorry about the 2 years delay, I must've forgot about this issue by the time I got to revamping the mod. Thank you so much for bringing it to my attention twice, else it would've stayed that way forever.
Cheers and have a good one!
how can i make this work with Quiet Retro Fashion
Just install Quiet Retro Fashion first, and then Camo Consistency after it. SnakeBite will let you know that there is a mod conflict but it is safe to ignore it.
There's a big text file that contains each and every item and camo descriptions and if I recall correctly, QRF adds a bit of flavour text to some entries while this mod edits the description to reflect the changes made to the actual camo system. That's why there is a conflict.
In other words, if you install CC first and QRF last, you won't get the proper camo descriptions of this mod - but the actual changes to camo values will still work as intended.
Cheers!
I've played my fair share of FOBs with this mod installed (and many others) and never got banned. I'd say it's safe to play FOBs with this mod.
Cheers!
fatigue to all the Sneaking Suits (GZ, TPP, Battle Dress, Solid Snake...)? I just think it would make sense that they had it too.
I don't think its possible to be honest. The way the system works is that there's an index of surfaces (grassy, sandy etc), and for each camo I can set whether or not it gets a bonus on a given surface. Eg, I can give a camo bonus when standing in sandy surfaces to the Sneaking Suit if I wanted to.
Thing is - the Black Ocelot camo has no set bonus on any surface whatsoever in the file I'm working with, leading me to believe that its night bonus (I do believe there is one) is hardcoded or defined elsewhere. In other words, I can't just copy the values of the Black Ocelot camo to the Sneaking Suit, it wouldn't do anything. As a matter of fact, the Sneaking Suits don't have any surface on which they get a bonus either, so the "silent footstep" property is also hardcoded and/or defined elsewhere.
Cheers!
It makes me think either the mod isn't working properly, or the Camo Index UI doesn't report the camo bonus. There might have been some update between now and then that changed out the camo system works, or a complete file restructure, but I really have no idea.
From what I can tell reading the mod's page & comments, Camo Index UI is not able to read any modified camo table.
If I understand correctly, Index UI has all vanilla values from "player2_camouf_param.lua" stored in its own IH script, it then does a bunch of calculation based on it and finally gives you an index in percentage. CC is nothing but a modified "player2_camouf_param.lua", so Index UI is doing a calculation that's based on vanilla values.
I'm too unfamiliar with Camo Index UI (And IH scripts in general) to give you an answer with a sufficient degree of certainty though. Something seems off, can you screen your modlist perhaps?
This is the modlist I've been running for a bit now. There really shouldn't be anything that touches the camos besides CCR, and I had to install the index UI manually since it doesn't work with snakebite.
The bad news is that given the camo index you get using Camo Index UI it seems like it is not working properly for some reason. I can't help you with that I'm afraid, I don't know how the mod works exactly. Might be worth a shot asking in the comments section of Index UI's page, or in the Modder's Heaven Discord. You'll most likely find people with enough know-how to help you out.
That's not much, but I hope it helps. Cheers!
Sorry for answering now, I must've missed your comment. If you want to have say animals to be effective everywhere, you'd have to find it in the lua file and you'll see a bunch of 0,50,50,50,0 etc. Apply a value of "50" everywhere. It's basically binary - either it does not apply a bonus (= a value of 0) or it does (= a value of 50). I haven't tried that myself though, so no guarantee that it works as intended and/or doesn't crash!
Cheers!