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About this mod
Roll the dice for Persuasion, and be ready to make some hard choices. Paragade/Renegon friendly. Or a cheat option to make Charm/Intimidate dialog lines always available.
- Requirements
- Permissions and credits
- Donations
CONCEPT AND FEATURES
The amount of Paragon and Renegade points (along with persuasion bonus from skills) still determine the availability of the corresponding persuasion options (as in vanilla), but in a less systematic manner. A random element is introduced, similar to a typical "Roll for Persuasion".
This allows to:
There are 3 difficulty options to select from during installation (Easy, Normal, or Hard). The easier settings will result in more Persuasion options being available on average. The fourth difficulty option (Auto) is basically a cheat that makes all Persuasion dialog options automatically available, no matter your Paragon/Renegade points.
DETAIL OF THE CALCULATIONS
This is what is going on under the hood. It's not necessary to know this to play the mod. In vanilla, Charm/Intimidate options are available if the number of Paragon/Renegade points (adjusted with any bonuses) is larger than a threshold depending on the difficulty of the Persuasion check and on the total number of Paragon/Renegade points available so far. The basic gist of this mod is that if you are just at the threshold, there is 50% chance that the Charm/Intimidate option will be available (with the Normal difficulty option). That probability increases (or decreases) the further you are above (or below) that threshold. For full disclosure in case you are interested:
Note that the mod is implemented in such a way that save-scumming should not be possible. If there is a conversation where you absolutely want a certain option, you can however always change the difficulty to Easy or even Auto, by re-installing the mod mid-playthrough, and then put it back to Normal or Hard after the conversation, etc.
A NOTE ON RNG AND ARBITRARINESS
The Charm/Intimidate requirements in vanilla are rather arbitrary, and the dependence on the total number of Paragon/Renegade points available can create situations where one would be able to pass a check early on, but not after doing some more missions, and then again later on in the playthrough. Introducing a random element seriously decreases this level of arbitrariness. And it creates a universe where not every NPC can be convinced to do whatever Shepard wants just by choosing the right words and looking sufficiently benevolent or menacing. Some NPCs will be amenable to such persuasion, and it will depend on Shepard's skills, but others won't, or will only be susceptible to Charm or Intimidation, but not both. If you have natural issues with the idea of depending on RNG, just think of it this way: for each playthrough, a slightly different universe is created, where those susceptibilities are not exactly defined as in the Morality Guide on the Mass Effect wiki.
COMPATIBILITY
Technical information (for modders, etc), is on the memtech website.
INSTALLATION
Install with ME3Tweaks Mod Manager.
Uninstall with ME3Tweaks Mod Manager.
IN THE OTHER GAMES
Alternative Persuasion (LE1)
The possibility of a similar mod for LE3 will be considered at some point in the future. No ETA.
SPECIAL THANKS
To Mgamerz, SirCxyrtyx, d00t, HenBagle, Kinkojiro, and anyone who contributed to ME3Tweaks Mod Manager and ME3/LegendaryExplorer.
The amount of Paragon and Renegade points (along with persuasion bonus from skills) still determine the availability of the corresponding persuasion options (as in vanilla), but in a less systematic manner. A random element is introduced, similar to a typical "Roll for Persuasion".
This allows to:
- Eliminate the strong vanilla incentive to go all Paragon or all Renegade. Paragade and Renegon are essentially just as viable.
- Reduce the rather un-immersive and arbitrary by-the-numbers gameplay element ("I need X points for this, or Y points for that"). Having more Paragon/Renegade points and investing in skills that boost persuasion still increase the probability to have Charm/Intimidate options available, but is not always a guarantee of success. On the other hand, neglecting those skills and/or having few Paragon/Renegade points will still leave some Charm/Intimidate doors open. Notably, with this mod it is much less critical to max out the option that boosts Persuasion in the passive skill.
- Create interesting role-play situations where for example a Paragon Shepard must choose between an optimal solution via a Renegade choice or action, or accept a sub-optimal solution to preserve her/his own moral standards.
- Create some situations where there simply isn't any optimal (Charm/Intimidate) option available, and Shepard must face the hard (and arguably more interesting) choices of sub-optimal solutions.
- Increase replayability and differences between playthroughs.
There are 3 difficulty options to select from during installation (Easy, Normal, or Hard). The easier settings will result in more Persuasion options being available on average. The fourth difficulty option (Auto) is basically a cheat that makes all Persuasion dialog options automatically available, no matter your Paragon/Renegade points.
DETAIL OF THE CALCULATIONS
This is what is going on under the hood. It's not necessary to know this to play the mod. In vanilla, Charm/Intimidate options are available if the number of Paragon/Renegade points (adjusted with any bonuses) is larger than a threshold depending on the difficulty of the Persuasion check and on the total number of Paragon/Renegade points available so far. The basic gist of this mod is that if you are just at the threshold, there is 50% chance that the Charm/Intimidate option will be available (with the Normal difficulty option). That probability increases (or decreases) the further you are above (or below) that threshold. For full disclosure in case you are interested:
Spoiler:
The availability of a Charm/Intimidate option depends on the vanilla threshold, and the number of Paragon/Renegade points adjusted for bonuses (Persuasion points):
Chance of a Persuasion option being available = Base% + 0.4 x ( sqrt(Persuasion points / Vanilla Threshold) -1).
And there is a chance to get a critical success (option available no matter the threshold/persuasion points), or a critical fail (option unavailable no matter the threshold/persuasion points).
If Persuasion Points = Vanilla Threshold, the chance of the option being available is equal to the Base%.
If Persuasion Points > Vanilla Threshold, the chance increases. And if Persuasion Points < Vanilla Threshold, the chance decreases. The sqrt is present in the formula to reduce the impact of large differences, which are actually rather easy to obtain (it's possible to have 2x or 3x more Persuasion Points than the Vanilla Threshold).
[Easy] Base% = 60%, critical success = 30%, critical fail = 10%.
[Normal] Base%. = 50%, critical success = 20%, critical fail = 20%.
[Hard] Base% = 40%, critical success = 10%, critical fail = 30%.
If a single conversation has mutliple Persuasion checks of increasing difficulty, there is only 1 random event, which will determine how far you can go (if you pass the hardest check, you automatically pass the easier ones as well). Otherwise, it would make such checks much more difficult because of the need to succeed several times in a row.
3) Examples
Example 1. In vanilla, the Miranda/Jack conflict has a Charm option with Max difficulty, and an Intimidate option with Hard difficulty. The Vanilla Thresholds will depend on when this happens during your playthrough, but in mine they were at 1363 for Charm and 693 for Intimidate. On a mostly renegade playthrough, I had 558 Charm points (Paragon points adjusted for bonuses) and 1975 Intimidate points. With the [Normal] difficulty option, this means 35% chance of having the Charm option available, and 78% chance of having the Intimidate option available (and thus 86% of having at least one of the two options available). With [Easy], it would be 45% and 88% (93% of having at least one). With [Hard], it would be 25% and 68% (76% of having at least one).
Example 2. The same conflict, at the same time in a Paragon playthrough with 1975 Charm points and 558 Intimidate points, would give in [Normal] 58% to have the charm option available, and 46% to have the Intimidate option available (77% to have at least one). In a paragade/renegon playthrough with 1266 Charm points and 1266 Intimidate points, it would give in [Normal] 49% to have the charm option available, and 64% to have the Intimidate option available (82% to have at least one).
Show
The availability of a Charm/Intimidate option depends on the vanilla threshold, and the number of Paragon/Renegade points adjusted for bonuses (Persuasion points):
Chance of a Persuasion option being available = Base% + 0.4 x ( sqrt(Persuasion points / Vanilla Threshold) -1).
And there is a chance to get a critical success (option available no matter the threshold/persuasion points), or a critical fail (option unavailable no matter the threshold/persuasion points).
If Persuasion Points = Vanilla Threshold, the chance of the option being available is equal to the Base%.
If Persuasion Points > Vanilla Threshold, the chance increases. And if Persuasion Points < Vanilla Threshold, the chance decreases. The sqrt is present in the formula to reduce the impact of large differences, which are actually rather easy to obtain (it's possible to have 2x or 3x more Persuasion Points than the Vanilla Threshold).
[Easy] Base% = 60%, critical success = 30%, critical fail = 10%.
[Normal] Base%. = 50%, critical success = 20%, critical fail = 20%.
[Hard] Base% = 40%, critical success = 10%, critical fail = 30%.
If a single conversation has mutliple Persuasion checks of increasing difficulty, there is only 1 random event, which will determine how far you can go (if you pass the hardest check, you automatically pass the easier ones as well). Otherwise, it would make such checks much more difficult because of the need to succeed several times in a row.
3) Examples
Example 1. In vanilla, the Miranda/Jack conflict has a Charm option with Max difficulty, and an Intimidate option with Hard difficulty. The Vanilla Thresholds will depend on when this happens during your playthrough, but in mine they were at 1363 for Charm and 693 for Intimidate. On a mostly renegade playthrough, I had 558 Charm points (Paragon points adjusted for bonuses) and 1975 Intimidate points. With the [Normal] difficulty option, this means 35% chance of having the Charm option available, and 78% chance of having the Intimidate option available (and thus 86% of having at least one of the two options available). With [Easy], it would be 45% and 88% (93% of having at least one). With [Hard], it would be 25% and 68% (76% of having at least one).
Example 2. The same conflict, at the same time in a Paragon playthrough with 1975 Charm points and 558 Intimidate points, would give in [Normal] 58% to have the charm option available, and 46% to have the Intimidate option available (77% to have at least one). In a paragade/renegon playthrough with 1266 Charm points and 1266 Intimidate points, it would give in [Normal] 49% to have the charm option available, and 64% to have the Intimidate option available (82% to have at least one).
Note that the mod is implemented in such a way that save-scumming should not be possible. If there is a conversation where you absolutely want a certain option, you can however always change the difficulty to Easy or even Auto, by re-installing the mod mid-playthrough, and then put it back to Normal or Hard after the conversation, etc.
A NOTE ON RNG AND ARBITRARINESS
The Charm/Intimidate requirements in vanilla are rather arbitrary, and the dependence on the total number of Paragon/Renegade points available can create situations where one would be able to pass a check early on, but not after doing some more missions, and then again later on in the playthrough. Introducing a random element seriously decreases this level of arbitrariness. And it creates a universe where not every NPC can be convinced to do whatever Shepard wants just by choosing the right words and looking sufficiently benevolent or menacing. Some NPCs will be amenable to such persuasion, and it will depend on Shepard's skills, but others won't, or will only be susceptible to Charm or Intimidation, but not both. If you have natural issues with the idea of depending on RNG, just think of it this way: for each playthrough, a slightly different universe is created, where those susceptibilities are not exactly defined as in the Morality Guide on the Mass Effect wiki.
If you are feeling unconventional, you can buy me a chance to smile the bartender into not trying to poison me
COMPATIBILITY
- This mod is not compatible with Paragade Persuasion. This mod and mine are two different takes on the same aspect of the game.
- Afaik, there should not be any compatibility issues with other mods.
Technical information (for modders, etc), is on the memtech website.
INSTALLATION
Install with ME3Tweaks Mod Manager.
- Drag and drop the compressed (.7z) mod file for Alternative Persuasion into the Mod manager window, and import it.
- Select the mod in the Mod Manager library list (for LE2) and click "Apply Mod".
- This is installed in part as a DLC mod, and in part as a mergemod to the basegame file SFXGame.pcc.
Uninstall with ME3Tweaks Mod Manager.
- Go in Manage Target (for LE2), and delete or disable the DLC mod. Then go in the Tools menu of Mod Manager and select Sync Plot Manager. The changes made to SFXGame.pcc will still be in place but will have no effect on your game without the DLC part of the mod.
IN THE OTHER GAMES
Alternative Persuasion (LE1)
The possibility of a similar mod for LE3 will be considered at some point in the future. No ETA.
SPECIAL THANKS
To Mgamerz, SirCxyrtyx, d00t, HenBagle, Kinkojiro, and anyone who contributed to ME3Tweaks Mod Manager and ME3/LegendaryExplorer.