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About this mod
Roll the dice for Persuasion, and be ready to make some hard choices. Paragade/Renegon friendly. Or a cheat option to make Charm/Intimidate dialog lines always available.
- Requirements
- Permissions and credits
- Donations
CONCEPT AND FEATURES
The number of points invested in the Charm and/or Intimidate skills still determine the availability of the corresponding persuasion options (as in vanilla), but in a less systematic manner. The vanilla difficulty of each Persuasion Check is rebalanced to account for player level (e.g. the infamous Feros check is easier if Feros is played early on). And a random element is introduced, similar to a typical "Roll for Persuasion".
This allows to:
There are 3 difficulty options to select from during installation (Easy, Normal, or Hard). The easier settings will result in more Persuasion options being available, at least on average and for the same skill points investments. The fourth difficulty option (Auto) is basically a cheat that makes all Persuasion dialog options automatically available, no matter your Charm/Intimidate skill points.
DETAIL OF THE CALCULATIONS
This is what is going on under the hood. It's not necessary to know this to play the mod. The basic gist of it is that each skill point invested in Charm or Intimidate increases by 5% the chance to have any given Charm or Intimidate dialog option available, and the base chance depends on vanilla difficulty of that persuasion check, and on player level. For full disclosure in case you are interested:
Note that the mod is implemented in such a way that save-scumming should not be possible. If there is a conversation where you absolutely want a certain option, you can however always change the difficulty to Easy or even Auto, by re-installing the mod mid-playthrough, and then put it back to Normal or Hard after the conversation, etc.
A NOTE ON RNG AND ARBITRARINESS
The Charm/Intimidate requirements in vanilla are rather arbitrary (why is the Feros check so difficult? Why are there some case where you need 8 in Charm but only 4 in Intimidate?, etc). Introducing a random element seriously decreases this level of arbitrariness. And it creates a universe where not every NPC can be convinced to do whatever Shepard wants just by choosing the right words and looking sufficiently benevolent or menacing. Some NPCs will be amenable to such persuasion, and it will depend on Shepard's skills, but others won't, or will only be susceptible to Charm or Intimidation, but not both. If you have natural issues with the idea of depending on RNG, just think of it this way: for each playthrough, a slightly different universe is created, where those susceptibilities are not exactly defined as in the Morality Guide on the Mass Effect wiki.
COMPATIBILITY
Technical information (for modders, etc), is on the memtech website.
INSTALLATION
Install with ME3Tweaks Mod Manager.
Uninstall with ME3Tweaks Mod Manager.
IN THE OTHER GAMES
Alternative Persuasion (LE2)
The possibility of a similar mod for LE3 will be considered at some point in the future. No ETA.
SPECIAL THANKS
To Mgamerz, SirCxyrtyx, d00t, HenBagle, Kinkojiro, and anyone who contributed to ME3Tweaks Mod Manager and ME3/LegendaryExplorer.
The number of points invested in the Charm and/or Intimidate skills still determine the availability of the corresponding persuasion options (as in vanilla), but in a less systematic manner. The vanilla difficulty of each Persuasion Check is rebalanced to account for player level (e.g. the infamous Feros check is easier if Feros is played early on). And a random element is introduced, similar to a typical "Roll for Persuasion".
This allows to:
- Eliminate the strong vanilla incentive to go all Paragon or all Renegade. Paragade and Renegon are just as viable.
- Reduce the rather un-immersive and arbitrary by-the-numbers gameplay element ("I need X points for this, or Y points for that"). Investing more points in Charm or Intimidate or both will always be beneficial (including if one is already maxed out), but is not always a guarantee of success. On the other hand, neglecting those skills will still leave some persuasion doors open. Either way, no need to plan the order of missions depending on where the harder persuasion checks happen.
- Create interesting role-play situations where for example a Paragon Shepard must choose between an optimal solution via a Renegade choice or action, or accept a sub-optimal solution to preserve her/his own moral standards.
- Create some situations where there simply isn't any optimal (Charm/Intimidate) option available, and Shepard must face the hard (and arguably more interesting) choices of sub-optimal solutions.
- Increase replayability and differences between playthroughs.
There are 3 difficulty options to select from during installation (Easy, Normal, or Hard). The easier settings will result in more Persuasion options being available, at least on average and for the same skill points investments. The fourth difficulty option (Auto) is basically a cheat that makes all Persuasion dialog options automatically available, no matter your Charm/Intimidate skill points.
DETAIL OF THE CALCULATIONS
This is what is going on under the hood. It's not necessary to know this to play the mod. The basic gist of it is that each skill point invested in Charm or Intimidate increases by 5% the chance to have any given Charm or Intimidate dialog option available, and the base chance depends on vanilla difficulty of that persuasion check, and on player level. For full disclosure in case you are interested:
Spoiler:
1) The difficulty of each persuasion check is rebalanced to account for player level:
Difficulty = (Vanilla Difficulty)/2 + (Classic Level)/10
So for example the Feros Charm check (12 Charm points required) will have a difficulty of 8 at level 20, and 11 at level 50.
Very easy persuasion checks in late game are trivial in vanilla but made somewhat more difficult with this rebalancing. For example 4 Charm points required in vanilla, would mean a difficulty of 7 at level 50.
2) The availability of a Charm/Intimidate option depends on the difficulty and the number of Charm/Intimidate skill points:
Chance of a Persuasion option being available = Base% + 5% x (Skill points - Difficulty).
And there is a chance to get a critical success (option available no matter the difficulty/skill points), or a critical fail (option unavailable no matter the difficulty/skill points).
[Easy] Base% = 60%, critical success = 30%, critical fail = 10%.
[Normal] Base%. = 50%, critical success = 20%, critical fail = 20%.
[Hard] Base% = 40%, critical success = 10%, critical fail = 30%.
There are a few cases where a single conversation has mutliple Persuasion checks of increasing difficulty. In such cases there is only 1 random event, which will determine how far you can go (if you pass the hardest check, you automatically pass the easier ones as well). Otherwise, it would make these checks much more difficult because of the need to succeed 3-4 times in a row.
3) Examples
Example 1. The Feros Check is one of the hardest in the game (12 Charm or 10 Intimidate in vanilla). If we take it at level 30, with 8 points in Charm and 4 points in Intimidate, we have Charm difficulty at 9, so 45% chance to have this option. Intimidate difficulty is 8 so 30% chance to have this option. This means 61.5% chance to have at least one of these options available ("Normal" setting). With the "Easy" setting, it would be 55% and 40% -> 73%. With the "Hard" setting, it would be 35% and 20% -> 48%. So, even though we don't have enough skill points to unlock the dialog options in vanilla, there is a decent chance to have them with this mod.
Example 2. An easy persuasion check (4 Charm or 4 Intimidate in vanilla) but at level 50, with 12 points in Charm and 2 points in Intimidate, we have Charm difficulty at 7, so 75% chance to have this option. Intimidate difficulty is 7 so 25% chance to have this option. This means 81.3% chance to have at least one available ("Normal" setting). So it's very probable, but still not guaranteed. If we had invested the skills points differently: 7 in Charm and 7 in Intimidate, it would be 50% to have the Charm option, 50% to have the Intimidate option, 75% to have at least one.
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1) The difficulty of each persuasion check is rebalanced to account for player level:
Difficulty = (Vanilla Difficulty)/2 + (Classic Level)/10
So for example the Feros Charm check (12 Charm points required) will have a difficulty of 8 at level 20, and 11 at level 50.
Very easy persuasion checks in late game are trivial in vanilla but made somewhat more difficult with this rebalancing. For example 4 Charm points required in vanilla, would mean a difficulty of 7 at level 50.
2) The availability of a Charm/Intimidate option depends on the difficulty and the number of Charm/Intimidate skill points:
Chance of a Persuasion option being available = Base% + 5% x (Skill points - Difficulty).
And there is a chance to get a critical success (option available no matter the difficulty/skill points), or a critical fail (option unavailable no matter the difficulty/skill points).
[Easy] Base% = 60%, critical success = 30%, critical fail = 10%.
[Normal] Base%. = 50%, critical success = 20%, critical fail = 20%.
[Hard] Base% = 40%, critical success = 10%, critical fail = 30%.
There are a few cases where a single conversation has mutliple Persuasion checks of increasing difficulty. In such cases there is only 1 random event, which will determine how far you can go (if you pass the hardest check, you automatically pass the easier ones as well). Otherwise, it would make these checks much more difficult because of the need to succeed 3-4 times in a row.
3) Examples
Example 1. The Feros Check is one of the hardest in the game (12 Charm or 10 Intimidate in vanilla). If we take it at level 30, with 8 points in Charm and 4 points in Intimidate, we have Charm difficulty at 9, so 45% chance to have this option. Intimidate difficulty is 8 so 30% chance to have this option. This means 61.5% chance to have at least one of these options available ("Normal" setting). With the "Easy" setting, it would be 55% and 40% -> 73%. With the "Hard" setting, it would be 35% and 20% -> 48%. So, even though we don't have enough skill points to unlock the dialog options in vanilla, there is a decent chance to have them with this mod.
Example 2. An easy persuasion check (4 Charm or 4 Intimidate in vanilla) but at level 50, with 12 points in Charm and 2 points in Intimidate, we have Charm difficulty at 7, so 75% chance to have this option. Intimidate difficulty is 7 so 25% chance to have this option. This means 81.3% chance to have at least one available ("Normal" setting). So it's very probable, but still not guaranteed. If we had invested the skills points differently: 7 in Charm and 7 in Intimidate, it would be 50% to have the Charm option, 50% to have the Intimidate option, 75% to have at least one.
Note that the mod is implemented in such a way that save-scumming should not be possible. If there is a conversation where you absolutely want a certain option, you can however always change the difficulty to Easy or even Auto, by re-installing the mod mid-playthrough, and then put it back to Normal or Hard after the conversation, etc.
A NOTE ON RNG AND ARBITRARINESS
The Charm/Intimidate requirements in vanilla are rather arbitrary (why is the Feros check so difficult? Why are there some case where you need 8 in Charm but only 4 in Intimidate?, etc). Introducing a random element seriously decreases this level of arbitrariness. And it creates a universe where not every NPC can be convinced to do whatever Shepard wants just by choosing the right words and looking sufficiently benevolent or menacing. Some NPCs will be amenable to such persuasion, and it will depend on Shepard's skills, but others won't, or will only be susceptible to Charm or Intimidation, but not both. If you have natural issues with the idea of depending on RNG, just think of it this way: for each playthrough, a slightly different universe is created, where those susceptibilities are not exactly defined as in the Morality Guide on the Mass Effect wiki.
If you are feeling wholesome, you can buy me a chance to kill Balak and still save the hostages
COMPATIBILITY
- This mod is not compatible with Paragade Persuasion. This mod and mine are two different takes on the same aspect of the game.
- Afaik, there should not be any compatibility issues with other mods.
Technical information (for modders, etc), is on the memtech website.
INSTALLATION
Install with ME3Tweaks Mod Manager.
- Drag and drop the compressed (.7z) mod file for Alternative Persuasion into the Mod manager window, and import it.
- Select the mod in the Mod Manager library list (for LE1) and click "Apply Mod".
- This is installed in part as a DLC mod, and in part as a mergemod to the basegame file SFXGame.pcc.
Uninstall with ME3Tweaks Mod Manager.
- Go in Manage Target (for LE1), and delete or disable the DLC mod. Then go in the Tools menu of Mod Manager and select Sync Plot Manager. The changes made to SFXGame.pcc will still be in place but will have no effect on your game without the DLC part of the mod.
IN THE OTHER GAMES
Alternative Persuasion (LE2)
The possibility of a similar mod for LE3 will be considered at some point in the future. No ETA.
SPECIAL THANKS
To Mgamerz, SirCxyrtyx, d00t, HenBagle, Kinkojiro, and anyone who contributed to ME3Tweaks Mod Manager and ME3/LegendaryExplorer.