I don''t know. I mean on paper I agree that if it's risky, it might as well be risky for Shepard too. But I don't see the practical consequences of the ending where Shepard dies to be really interesting, especially since you usually play to import in ME3. In vanilla it's there because you can't play other missions without at least 2 squadmates.
With my mod, if someone has a bad run and loses many squadmates, they can 1) reload a save and try again, 2) use the relic and "cheat", 3) accept the consequences for a ME3 run that will probably be rather interesting/unique. If Shepard has a large chance to die, it negates the last option and forces to 1) reload and try again, or 2) use the save editor and "cheat".
If someone has a decent run and loses only a few squadmates but Shepard is unlucky and dies at the end. Then it's just going to be frustrating.
I agree that it will be frustating, since you won't be able to import that save into ME3 because well...you're dead.
Yes, I can imagine that reloading a save will get tedious with that suggestion since you will get bored over time because you just want to get a completed ME2 Save for ME3 and while it can be nerve-racking to hope that you survive for your save to be importable, it will turn into frustation easily because all your progress...gone in an instant if you get unlucky.
And if it happens more than once, it won't be fun for sure.
Played with this in new run, seems my mods that time didn't have any messes or incompatibilities. Think I got rather unlucky though, Grunt and Samara were first to go... which probably lessened the survival chance for others? Jacob and Kasumi died later during Collector Base itself. Garrus survived everything, even the closer call after the Reaper larvae. (I'd have reloaded if he hadn't)
Nice mod, like the chances of anyone dying and upgrades failing/partially failing :)
Thanks for the feedback, glad you liked the mod. Yeh 4 losses is not on the lucky side, although it could have been worse. I don't know if Grunt and Samara dying early lessened the survival chances for the others, it depends on their readiness.
I couldn't tell the readiness on those readiness screens, it just closed out after I "selected" someone? does same on the cabin console, that's my only issue now with this mod. I did use the orb to test it out after, wanted to see what was added text wise. But after I did Arrival dlc, I save editor marked everyone but Garrus dead for import into ME3 - technically impossible for Shep to survive, but ME3 import still magiced almost everybody back alive regardless. XD (Althrough Dreams Remade still had everyone marked dead properly dead, huh) Going to re-import, and save edit the first ME3 save to fix that magiced alive squad.
But to be fair I was expecting it, especially with the choices I took for the collector missions.
Horizon:
Garrus + Tali
Collector Ship:
Garrus + Legion
Derelict Reaper:
Tali + Legion
I know...these choices are not ideal. I just wanted to ensure their survival since they are most important to me for ME3.
I have used Early Recruitment with this in case you're wondering why Tali and Legion are participating in earlier collector missions :)
I also romanced Tali again and did all loyalty missions.
Well, I figured I'd only pick the others for specialist choices besides them and only pick Garrus and Legion into my squad once to increase their readiness to Very High.
For information. Everyone was on Low Readiness except those three.
Except Miranda. Since Legion participated in Derelict Reaper as squadmate, she got the extra +1.
(Of course -_-)
I'll be giving the short version this time.
Jacob died (Low Tech Specialist) Mordin died (Low Crew Escort) Grunt died (Medium 2nd Leader) (Wrex is going to kill me...) Jack died (Low Fireteam Leader, High Final Squadmate) Miranda survived (Medium Biotic Specialist, Very High on Hold the Line) (Big surprise -_-) Garrus survived (Very High on Hold the Line) Tali survived (Very High on Hold the Line) Samara survived (Medium Final Squadmate) Legion survived (Very High on Hold the Line)
(I seriously don't like Miranda's plot armor here...)
And I think that's it. Kasumi and Zaeed were not recruited this time. I decided to go on to ME3 without them.
So far I accept the casualties except Grunt. Damnit, now I made him an Urdnot for nothing.
And I am to blame for choosing him as Fireteam Leader, should have picked him as Crew Escort instead and send Mordin to death, lol
(But I think I can also blame the extra +1 from Derelict Reaper being assigned to Miss Plot Armor instead of Grunt :P)
But at least Garrus, Tali and Legion survived. That's a good starting point for ME3. Mordin, Grunt, Jack and Jacob will be replaced but I think it will be interesting to see the differences.
I think for my next playthrough I will consider balancing the collector mission choices. Lesson learned.
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Oh and one more thing. You should probably add my mod "Loyalty Matters" to the list of incompatible mods since it's features are basically already present in your mod, which overwrites it anyway. Just wanted to point that out.
Thanks for the feedback! Glad you managed to keep alive the ones that you wanted. Being able to protect certain squadmates at the expense of others was something I actively tried to put in the mod. As for the extra +1 from Derelict Reaper being assigned to Miss Plot Armor, this is random... I didn't specifically favour Miranda. I'll add your mod to the list of incompatible mods.
I know. I didn't mean to blame your mod for this. I just find it hilarious that out of all squadmate, she had to randomly get the +1 from Derelict Reaper.
It was pretty funny since during my playthrough I jokingly predicted that she would get it since I took Legion aboard the reaper and then it gets real when I saw her on Medium Readiness State(since I did her loyalty mission beforehand).
Yes, I was surprised.
I am considering doing another playthrough with different choices. I will plan on avoiding the loyalty missions and ship upgrades entirely to see how much worse it can get if I come unprepared.
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I must again point out, how much replayability your mod provides for the suicide mission. I really like it, when your choices have consequences and you get to experience different results when choosing otherwise.
Of course you are not guaranteed to succeed at all times. But this mod basically makes you rethink, who you want to risk dieing and who you want to survive at all times since it's a suicide mission, remember? ;)
Yes, you can get lucky and get everyone out alive (like I did) or basically try to start the suicide mission with enough squadmates to have almost everyone profit from the readiness boosts and have the rest stay behind to be protected by the heroes holding the line.
You are actually committed to balance your odds by thinking strategically. I find that remarkable :)
Clarification: Miranda as 2nd Fire Team when failing = no readiness increase? So I played a second time with your mod and I choose Miranda as leader for the second team. She failed and Zaeed died. BUT she didn't get a readiness bonus. She started with medium and stayed medium after that. As biotic specialsist I chose Samara. Sadly, this time she also failed and Jacob was carried of by the swarm. BUT she got her Bonus going from Medium to Very High. I didn't find anything saying that Miranda would be treated differntly with readiness for the second team. But has this to do with the fact that any other teamleader would have died in that case? Can you please clarify? Thank you!
In my first playthough with your mod, I also choose Miranda a 2nd squad lead - that time she suceeded and ended up Very High.
While in my first playthrough 3 members died (Thane, Jack and Jacob), I had now 5 dead team members (all humans). With Miranda only being Medium instead of Very high I had to take her to the final assault with a low Jack, as otherwise not enough characters with Very High would have been left to hold the line. Well both died after the reaper - first time I saw that, also an experience.
I was planning on a high human casualty list for this run according to my headcanon for this ruthless earthborn shep, but didn't expect to casually wipe out all human squad members, lol. :D
Yes indeed, if Miranda fails as second team leader, she doesn't get the Readiness bonus. It's a very particular case, since she has plot armor from the vanilla game and cannot die at that point. So if she fails, I made someone else take over the lead and die instead of her... otherwise she would be an auto-pick for that segment.
As for the readiness, she gets the bonus if she succeeds but not if she fails. Because in the latter case, if not for her plot armor she should have died and her readiness bonus would then be lost anyway. It's different from the swarm situation, because there the biotic specialist always survives and it's another squadmate who dies. For the second team leader, it's the team leader who dies in principle (exception for Miranda).
Example: Both Miranda and Zaeed are at Medium. The Readiness aspect should be identical whether you pick Zaeed or Miranda, otherwise Miranda is a favourite choice for no good reason. If you pick Zaeed and he succeeds, you have 1 at Very High (Zaeed) and 1 at Medium. If he fails, you're left with 1 at Medium (Miranda). If you pick Miranda and she succeeds, you have 1 at Very High (Miranda) and 1 at Medium. If she fails, you're left with 1 at Medium (also Miranda because of her plot armor).
Sorry for your losses, I guess your Shep's mentality affected his/her choices and their consequences...
Idk, I guess it's more of a second playthrough thing... Although I tried to make something that I find more interesting than the vanilla system, so I wouldn't absolutely recommend against it, especially if the mechanics of the vanilla suicide mission have been spoiled for you.
You should be expected to have casualties and that nothing will come out perfect just for following a strict path.
The idea of the readiness system is a truly good idea. Reminds me of LE3 in some sort just for the squadmates individually.
To be fair, loyalty may be a fair reason why someone can suceed but if you look at the flowchart someone had made for the suicide mission, it goes to show that even if someone is loyal, they still may fail if they're not the right choice which sounds like a slap to the face for your "hard" effort.
With your mod other factors also come into play. The more you take certain squadmates on main missions, the more ready they will be for the final mission.
And at that point loyalty is basically less of a concern. It serves as a boost to make sure all squadmates are at least at low readiness but the majority of it depends on who you take with you most of the time(for the missions against the collectors).
I installed the mod on a savegame, which was just before the suicide mission, so I had the default values applied.
So I commenced the suicide mission. All ship upgrades were installed and everyone was loyal. Last I checked, all of the squadmates were at medium readiness except a few others which were at low. I think it was Jacob, Kasumi, Zaeed and Samara.
Let's just say I was cursing at the 25% fail chance for the armor check because Garrus (Medium Readiness) died. Of all the squadmates that could have been randomly chosen to die, it had to be my most favourite one. Damnit.
(And yes I was also surprised when I saw it because I know of the vanilla logic for these checks. Fail the armor one and Jack always dies. Well, not anymore. Anyone is now at risk here, which truly makes this more fearful)
All checks after it went without casualties.
Mordin(Medium) died as tech specialist afterwards. Jacob(Low) was his team leader.
Kasumi(Medium) died in the long walk. Jacob(High) was the Biotic Specialist. Thane was also on my squad at that time but was left unharmed.
Miranda was chosen to be the second team leader. Funnily I imagined how she would somehow screw up and get someone killed with her medium readiness + specialist bonus but alas, she came out and survived. (No, I don't hate Miranda but her plot armor)
I took Jack and Samara to the final fight. Jack died with her medium readiness while Samara survived(she was at medium readiness since I took her with me for the infiltration alongside Tali, so she went from low to medium after that phase).
Everyone survived the hold the line section. When Miranda spoke to me in the cutscene I saw someone get shot but that was probably a bug since Joker said after the final fight, that everyone is back aboard. (I would have seen a small cutscene after defeating the reaper if there were casualties for hold the line). Jacob and Miranda both were on very high readiness at that point and were left behind so they must have pulled some heroic saves. Nice one.
Speaking of Tali, even though I romanced her I wanted to take a risk and chose her as the escort for the crew. I was relieved to hear everyone had survived the escort(and I was glad that Tali was also safe and wouldn't be in danger anymore).
So in conclusion the casualties of my recent suicide mission(with default readiness settings) is as follows.
-Garrus (-_-) -Mordin -Kasumi -Jack
So all in one, this mod is pretty well made. I can only imagine how much work and time had to be sacrificed in order to create this expanded system.
I have some questions which you may be able to answer.
-Is the motivation bonus for the specialist tasks applied immediately when you choose the squadmate or is it only applied after they finish their assignment without dieing. (For example, when I choose Jacob with Low Readiness as my tech specialist, will his readiness increase to High during the infiltration or after he survives?)
-Even if you have the Thanix Cannon installed, there still is a chance to fail this check, right? What exactly will happen when this check fails with the cannon installed? Will the cutscene play as if I never installed it or is there a slight change in the cannon cutscene where it can cut to a squadmate being impaled by debris? (EDIT: I found it out myself. After the cannon fires, there's a chance that Joker will fail when told to approach the enemy ship. He curses at the attackers and flies to the core of the enemy ship when this happens. That's where the "no cannon FMV" plays and thus the death scene happens)
-Did I understand the +1 for romanced squadmate correctly? If you romanced someone in ME2, only that squadmate receives +1 on readiness and if you didn't, every squadmate gets +1 instead? Sounds like you must avoid romancing a squadmate in order for everyone to be on medium/high readiness (at least on default settings when installing the mod into a pre-end save-game). (Shepard sure takes his time motivating that one squadmate, eh?)
(Sorry, couldn't resist that possibly stupid joke xD)
-Speaking of romance, what happens when I end the romance before the suicide mission? Is the +1 readiness boost still applied to every squadmate?
Thanks a lot for the feedback! Glad you enjoyed the mod!
To answer your questions:
- The motivation bonus is applied afterwards. So if you pick Jacob at Low readiness for Tech specialist, his chances of succeeding that task are based on Low readiness. But if he survives, he will come out at High readiness. If you pick Tali at low readiness, her specialisation bonus means that her chances of succeeding are as if she was Medium readiness. And if she survives, she will come out at High readiness.
- The approach cutscenes are often smaller cutscenes that play one after the other. So whenever possible I re-connected them differently to account for cases where there is a fail with upgrade, or success without upgrade. For the Thannix canon, if the check fails with the upgrade installed, then the first shot will use the cannon, then Shepard says get close and finish them (with regular guns, as if Thannix needs recharge time). So you get the first part of the success cutscenes, and the second part of the fail cutscenes.
- If you have no active romance, it doesn't give +1 readiness to everyone. The "crew" is Chakwas etc, not the squadmates. So without romance, they have a better chance of surviving the pods, and the Escort segment has a higher chance of success (as if the escort squadmate had +1 readiness).
- I check the romance flag when you go through the omega-4 relay. So if the romance has been terminated, it's as if there was no romance at all.
- "When Miranda spoke to me in the cutscene I saw someone get shot but that was probably a bug". I think it always happens that way, there's one squadmate in the background that seems to get shot, but it doesn't mean that they die. I only changed that cutscene so that higher readiness squadmates are on the front, and lower readiness in the back, getting apparently shot. But it's not connected to the survival calculations, even in vanilla afaik.
I could have guessed that the motivation bonus only applies after the finished assignment. Or else the very low and low chances could never be applied if it was otherwise (imagine having someone very low and boosting them to medium during their assignment because they work as your tech specialist, would be kinda cheaty).
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For the Thanix Cannon Check I noticed two possible outcomes, when it is installed.
Everything up to the point where Joker fires the cannon for the first time and Shepard says "Get closer and finish them off" is not part of the weapon check. Only in the upcoming FMV, where he flies towards the ship is where the check matters.
If it fails, the FMV cuts to Joker cursing at the ship and flieing to it's core, getting the Normandy hit in the process and triggering a random squadmate's death by impaling debris.
If it succeeds, the FMV cuts to him managing to fire the cannon a second time to destroy the enemy ship(like in vanilla).
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I have more questions. (I apologize if I ask too much)
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Romance Check
You're checking the romance flag when you go through the Omega 4-Relay? Does it matter if I rejected the romance scene of the active romance squadmate(since it happens when you commence the suicide mission) to disable the flag or would I have to break-up before I go through the Omega 4-Relay at all?
In other words when exactly is this flag checked? Once you speak to to the Illusive Man about the mission or when you start the mission by entering the Omega 4-Relay on the Galaxy Map(which means if a romance is already active at this point it's too late to back out of the romance penalty for the crew and bonus for the squadmate).
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Hold the Line and Final Battle
Which percentage is being checked for the final battle's squadmates? Is it "Failure" or "Success"?
If it is Success, is Heroic Success added to it?
(For example if Legion is Medium and Jacob is High, will Legion have 50% survival chance (20% Success + 30% Heroic Success) and Jacob will have 70 % (20% Success + 50 % Heroic Success), if they are not holding the line?
Or will I have to pray that the failure percentage does not pass the check? (Because Legion has 50% on Failure and Jacob has 30%)
In short, which percentage is actually checked in the final battle for the squadmates since the details you described in your article seem to only describe "Hold the Line" but not the Final Battle?
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Hold the Line Death Count
You haven't changed anything about the maximum death count of Hold the Line, correct? Only up to 3 squadmates can die at this point or can it actually be more than that? (The vanilla logic only allows up to 3 deaths here)
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Is there actually a way to manually change the readiness ranks, so I could simulate other squadmates for the three collector missions without having to replay the entire game?
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You can tell that my interest in this mod is high, especially since it prompts me to replay the suicide mission multiple times to see different outcomes (a trait I like in story-driven games where decisions matter).
Seeing Jacob finally succeed in his voluntarily Tech Mission(even though he was on low readiness, lol) and Miranda blasting the collectors to hell with her biotic barrier is a really good way to bring variety into this section of the game because their suggestions finally can turn out good.
And watching Tali actually being the one who protects Jacob successfully made me so proud of her.
- Romance check: I think it's after the romance scene, I don't remember exactly. But I'm not sure refusing sex breaks the romance, and the bonuses with/without romance don't make that much difference either.
- Final battle: I don't really understand your question. Both success and heroic success mean the squadmate survive. In your example, Legion would have 50% to survive, but that also means he has 50% chance to die (as in the "or" part of your question).
- Hold the line: I don't think there is a max casualties in vanilla. You can only see 3 corpses in the cutscene that plays, but more can die. I did play around with the idea of setting a limit on the number of casualties (to match the cutscene), but I think I removed that in the end.
- You can change stuff with the save editor (in Raw data). Check the link to memtech website on the bottom of the mod's description page. I put most of the detail of the plot variables (readiness is in the Plot Int; you probably need to set the plot bools for Horizon etc bonuses given as well - I'm not gonna give you the details of what everything means though, but you can play around starting from the info there).
- Glad you enjoy the mod enough to replay it, and want to know all the detaiils. And congrats to Jacob, Miranda, and Tali :)
You're right. My question about the final battle is confusing.
But you already answered my percentage question. Legion on Medium had 50 % survival chance while Jacob had 70% on survival Chance.
I'll describe my second run. Maybe then it will be clearer.
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I took Jacob and Legion with me(which may have been a mistake since neither of them were at very high readiness) to the final fight and both died...
Not only that, Samara, Kasumi and Grunt also bit the bullet. I saw the cutscene showing their corpses when Joker reported their status.
Samara was on Medium along with Kasumi and Grunt. I guess that all of them didn't succeed even through they were on Medium.
Zaeed was the only one on Low but either he succeeded or was saved. Garrus, Tali and Miranda were left behind with very high readiness. Thane was on Medium readiness along with Mordin.
But I saw in another comment, that whoever gets saved from the failed squadmates is random. Maybe Zaeed, Thane and Mordin were the lucky ones here, because they possibly failed (along with Kasumi, Samara and Grunt) and got saved and the other 3 weren't so lucky because Garrus, Tali and Miranda were only able to save those three.
At least that's what I presume.
So in summary I lost 5 squadmates in the end.
-Jacob (Final Fight) (High) -Legion (Final Fight) (Medium) -Samara (Hold the Line) (Medium) -Kasumi (Hold the Line) (Medium) -Grunt (Hold the Line) (Medium)
The rest survived.
Assigned Tasks
-Jacob (Low Tech Specialist) -Tali (Medium Infiltration Team Leader) -Miranda (High Biotic Specialist) -Garrus (High Long Walk Team Leader) -Jack (Crew Escort)
Infiltration Squad
-Garrus -Miranda
Long Walk Squad
-Samara -Kasumi
Final Fight Squad -Jacob -Legion
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So how did Jacob and Legion die here? Did they fail their success percentage checks for the final fight? Legion was basically 50/50, while Jacob was 70/30. Did I get unlucky here?
I most likely had bad luck for hold the line since only Garrus, Tali and Miranda seemed to have succeeded and Thane, Mordin and Zaeed were saved from death instead of Samara, Kasumi and Grunt. Literally it seems like everyone except the 3 Heroes failed in holding the line.
Perhaps I should have also left Jacob behind then since he was on high readiness. Taking high readiness squadmates into the final battle prevents them from saving squadmates who fail holding the line.
Which basically means. If I had left Jacob behind, Kasumi, Samara or Grunt could have been saved as well?
It's not easy to get a good intuitive grasp on probabilities. If one squadmate has only 10% chance of dying you can feel reasonably secure that they'll make it. But with 12 squadmates, you have 72% chance that at least one of them has a 10% bad roll.
In your case, at the final fight, both Legion and Jacob failed their check. It doesn't depend on anything else. Holding the line, you can guess what happened, and it could be what you write but it could be something else as well. Maybe Zaeed got lucky and succeeded. Maybe not all 3 of the High Readiness made a heroic save. Etc.
If you had left Jacob holding the line and sent a lower readiness squadmate (say Samara) to the final fight instead, you would have had a better chance of losing fewer squadmates holding the line (but a larger chance of losing Samara at the final fight). But knowing the result afterwards, if Jacob failed at the final fight he would also have failed holding the line (it's the same check).
Say Jacob (High) is going to fail, and Samara (Medium) is going to fail as well. Then sending Jacob or Samara to the final fight won't make any difference in the number of casualties (only thing is that the one holding the line has a chance to be saved). If Jacob is going to make a heroic success and Samara is going to get a normal success. Then keeping Jacob holding the line would have resulted in one less casualty. But ofc you don't know which one it is beforehand.
In that case there'd actually be a good reason to delay recruiting certain squadmates to keep them out of harm's way and only recruit them after the suicide mission. That way the rest has higher survival chances.
(Since I have a feeling that your mod actually encourages to do so because of the mission bonus limit you have set. You can only get 6 squadmates on medium, since you only have 3 missions for the field experience. The rest would stay on very low or low depending on loyalty)
But then again you can get unlucky with the upgrade checks.
I have a feeling that in order to have a perfect run with this mod, you'd need to initiate the suicide mission with less than 12 squadmates, recruiting the rest of them after the suicide mission to keep them safe for ME3.
However I don't know how many you MUST recruit before the game allows to initiate the suicide mission.
I replayed the mod many times with all 12 squadmates but realize that there is a very high probability for some squadmates to die this way, since I can't boost everyone to high/very high readiness during the mission with the maximum squadmate count. Some at least stay on medium and are endangered in the end.
True, they could survive on medium if lucky but a higher readiness rank lessens the chance of failing.
I feel pretty safe with High to be honest.
With a lower total count of squadmates I could actually increase my chances accordingly since I could cover enough squadmates for the motivation bonuses.
Yes, I could use the prothean relic but I like to think a bit strategically with this mod now :D
I know that Miranda, Jacob and Mordin are mandatory. Especially Mordin, since you can't start Horizon without recruiting him.
I think after Horizon the game checks for total squadmate count in order to determine when the player is ready for the suicide mission but I don't know how high that limit actually is.
You wouldn't happen to know the limit here, would you?
Or maybe you could give me a personal recommendation on how many squadmates I should have in my Squad before starting the suicide mission?
You need at least 8 squadmates to start the mission. That's the vanilla limit, ensuring that you don't end up without at least 2 squadmates for the combat parts.
It's possible that with my mod, the chances to not lose anyone are somewhat larger if you go with 8 rather than 12. But it's not a huge difference, it's only for the 6 readiness points that get split over 8 rather than 12 squadmates. Sorry to say that you're still rather unlikely to make it with everyone alive. If you lose someone, you're also more likely to lose someone with higher readiness.
I decided to do another run with default values in order to give me bit of confidence when replaying the game with this mod installed.
This time I went in with the mindset to expect casualties, so I planned, which squadmates would be the most important to me for ME3.
In this case Garrus, Legion and Tali.
Starting Readiness Stats
Garrus - Medium Tali - Medium(Low + Romance) Legion - Medium Jack - Medium Miranda - Medium Mordin - Medium Thane - Medium Jacob - Low Samara - Low Zaeed - Low Kasumi - Low
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At the first attempt I got unlucky right at the start. Legion died from the armor check(25% -_-). I immediately reloaded my pre-suicide mission savegame.
So I retried.
This time all checks went without casualties. Everyone survived until then.
Then I chose the following squadmates for Infiltration Phase.
Tali - Boosted Medium Tech Specialist Garrus - Boosted Medium Fireteam Leader
I took Miranda and Legion into my squad.
I obviously took a risk here. Tali could have died but both her and Garrus succeeded the check and went up to Very High immediately.
So it went well so far.
The crew also survived since my save had 0 missions after the abduction. (The 90% worked in my favor there, since I romanced Tali)
For the Long Walk I chose the following squadmates.
The reason I chose Mordin? Because his death has little impact on ME3 and I had to think about who I could risk dieing.
Intended to have Legion survive early I chose him as the Crew Escort.
Jack and Thane joined me on the Long Walk.
To be fair I expected one of them to die here.
In the conclusion of Long Walk it seemed like Thane was picked for the death check.
But then Samara succeeded with her Medium Readiness. She went up to High immediately along with Jack and Thane.
So far so good.
I chose Mordin as the fireteam leader. Probably not the best decision because he's a doctor xD
But to my surprise, he survived with Medium Readiness and went up to Very High instantly.
I was cheering because Legion made it and escorted the crew successfully. Legion was therefore out of danger now. Score!
So, last phase.
Final Readiness Stats
Garrus - Very High Tali - Very High Jack - High Miranda - High Mordin - Very High Thane - High Jacob - Low Samara - High Zaeed - Low Kasumi - Low
Now I had to make a decision who I'd take with me to the final fight.
I decided to take Jacob and Thane. Yeah, I actually decided to take someone with Low Readiness to the final fight with the same mindset as before. I had to think about who I could risk dieing and I didn't want to take a second High/Very High with me because I wanted to keep things balanced for Hold The Line. Possibly a stupid idea.
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However I was in for a surprise...
Jacob and Thane both survived, which shocked me. Jacob got lucky with his Low Readiness.
To be fair, I expected him to die with his low readiness, joke's on me
But I couldn't celebrate yet. I had to wait for Joker's report about the squad holding the line.
All survivors on board. We're just waiting for you.
I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Everyone survived holding the line!
The only squadmates I could think of being in danger where Zaeed and Kasumi.
They were either saved by the Heroes or survived on their own. Maybe even Jacob pushed his luck onto them. No idea.
But I am proud to say that this time, all 12 squadmates survived the suicide mission with your mod installed :D
I'm happy about the outcome even if I actually expected someone to die again :D
Well done congrats! It's not very likely to make it with everyone alive but it's possible for sure. And taking some chances here and there can make a difference, like taking Jacob at the end may be what allowed everyone else to survive holding the line. But it could have gone wrong too.. I hope you feel more confident now (and also that you didn't waste all your luck on that test run eheh).
Cool job! I am truly in charge of the team before the suicide mission. And what’s funny is that I actually don’t risk anything if the experiment is unsuccessful.
Alright, playing this and... well, when I took Thane alone to travel under the bubble - Samara doing the bubble, couldn't level him up and bottom on screen only showed Jack, but Thane definitely did appear there.
Now at about just after the choosing team and who holds the line for the last of Suicide Mission, the choices are with me but squad icons not showing at the bottom so for example I can't tell them to switch weapons. Unsure if compatibility issue with a mod (not listed under compatibilities section) or just my game having bugged out earlier anyways, as it had (such as thinking I hadn't down Zaeed's loyalty mission and Shadow Broker DLC which I definitely had done)
Still in middle of game, but can have it generate a log; however that'll still take a bit to generate. Otherwise, so far things seem normal with this. https://me3tweaks.com/modmanager/logservice/logviewer?logid=f53eaa067f3f19209d38747a9968d8bb
Sorry for the delay in answering. Not sure what the problem was, but I doubt it was due to my mod, since it doesn't touch the combat sections. You certainly shouldn't be able to take Thane alone under the bubble. Not sure how you did manage that? But not surprised that it causeed issues down the line.
Not sure how I even messed it up that badly (my game) and it STILL somehow let me play through everything, game should have softlocked back in the Prologue with that mess! (Log shows mess, or should if it doesn't)
Didn't take him alone, had another squad with me under the bubble. Just, wanted to stat up Thane and noticed then that I lacked a squad icon, had two N7 (for Shep) on the levelup screen, going to the other just still was Shep's levelup screen. Also was going to have squad switch weapons, and couldn't do that because Thane not technically in Squad but still did combat and following as if in squad. Turned the camera after noticed lack of icon, Thane spawned there anyways.
After that, chosen squad for reaper and the before fight behaved like Thane with the biotic bubble. Cutscene was pretty silly, saving invisible squadmate. they were just standing offscreen then XD maybe even floating in the air, but because where cutscene cam was couldn't see em. Rubble scene of collector Base normal after with that cutscene.
Edit add: Could be due to my messup of the game, but even so I lost no one aside from Kelly Chambers and Gabby. and bunch of nameless randos if wish to include them. From squad choices lost no one, had all ship upgrades, and everyone loyal.. Getting Legion's loyalty be why I lost Gabby and Kelly probably.
Edit 2: On that note, trying to check the Readiness via that console in game didn't do anything when I selected a squad to check. just closed the console window out. I believe I saved a copy of my messed-modded game should anyone wish to take a look at it? game itself. Decided to refresh my games after the glitchy Suicide Mission and completing post-mission Arrival DLC. Going to try to mind what mods I apply this time once finish up refreshed ME1(LE1) play in progress.
Would like to play with this, just... for me I need Garrus 100% to survive, and probably one other so Shepard can be imported into the next game. Best way to - when use this; maybe another game run after my current ME2 run, to give Garrus highest possibility of surviving everything?
It's very (very!) unlikely to lose 11 squadmates with this mod, so having at least 2 squadmates survive is not an issue. As for Garrus: you can take him on the 3 main missions and gain his loyalty so his Readiness is Very High. For the approach, you can take him to fight the Oculus, but he might still die at the armor or weapon check (in that case, you can reload just before the omega-4 relay). For the rest, you can avoid putting him at risk (don't choose him as tech specialist, in the combat squad under the biotic bubble, escorting the crew, or as second team leader). And then leave him in the group holding the line, you might lose him there, but the chance is low.
Although what if the previous Collector missions/previous main missions were done before this got applied? Any way to edit-set the readiness to account for that?
so first team leader is okay? and don't take Garrus along when doing the biotic bubble (I usually pick Jack or Samara anyways here)? Just want to confirm. Are you saying to leave him or not leave him to hold the line for him to survive (have high chance of surviving)? And I always make sure I have my ship upgrades, using save editor tto fix a bug that happens to me that undoes a ship upgrade that I somehow keep triggering
Usually have Mordin do the escort, and a tech specialist do the tech anyways
Yes, first team leader (during the vents) is safe.. if he fails, it's the tech specialist who dies. Don't take him under the bubble (in the squad to fight with you), because if the biotic specialist fails, it's one of those who gets taken. And for the final part, it's a bit safer for those who hold the line than those who fight the reaper.
Anyway, you can still use the Prothean sphere in the mod to revive everyone afterwards. Or save-edit to revive only Garrus.
It'll still be some time before I get to Suicide Mission, just usually take him and Tali with me during the Reaper. Hmm, guess I need Tali and Legion to live as well to keep the best solution in ME3 with the Quarian-Geth war. May I ask what's best way to also have them keep high-enough chances to survive also?
Well it's the same for all of them: boost their readiness and don't put them in roles where they can die. But giving squadmates specfic roles is a way to boost their readiness before the final fight, so if you want to preserve more squadmates, you have to take some risks. I mean, just play through it and see how it goes. And if you don't like the result, use the sphere to revive everyone, or reload a save before the omega 4 relay and try again. Or you know, just roll with it for the next game for different than expected playthrough.
Yep, just had to confirm there wasn't anything more regarding keeping them alive. And as a previous post of yours said, can always save editor too if I don't want everyone revived by the sphere.
307 comments
Would it make sense to have Shepard be affected by all this as well?
There's one possible idea I have come up with. I guess there's multiple ways to make this work.
For example, for every squadmate still alive at the end of the suicide mission, 10% are added to Shepard's own survival chance.
If that percentage check fails, well, bad ending.
The total of squadmates is 10 (if you leave Zaeed and Kasumi out). If everyone survives, you obviously are guaranteed to survive as well.
Of course, with your mod it's very unlikely that you will lose everyone but maybe that extra risk could be implemented.
Well. If the suicide mission is supposed to be risky, I guess it make sense to have the leading one also be part of said risk, right?
What would you think?
With my mod, if someone has a bad run and loses many squadmates, they can 1) reload a save and try again, 2) use the relic and "cheat", 3) accept the consequences for a ME3 run that will probably be rather interesting/unique. If Shepard has a large chance to die, it negates the last option and forces to 1) reload and try again, or 2) use the save editor and "cheat".
If someone has a decent run and loses only a few squadmates but Shepard is unlucky and dies at the end. Then it's just going to be frustrating.
I agree that it will be frustating, since you won't be able to import that save into ME3 because well...you're dead.
Yes, I can imagine that reloading a save will get tedious with that suggestion since you will get bored over time because you just want to get a completed ME2 Save for ME3 and while it can be nerve-racking to hope that you survive for your save to be importable, it will turn into frustation easily because all your progress...gone in an instant if you get unlucky.
And if it happens more than once, it won't be fun for sure.
That wasn't a good idea. Apologies.
Garrus survived everything, even the closer call after the Reaper larvae. (I'd have reloaded if he hadn't)
Nice mod, like the chances of anyone dying and upgrades failing/partially failing :)
Going to re-import, and save edit the first ME3 save to fix that magiced alive squad.
First of all, my full playthrough had casualties.
But to be fair I was expecting it, especially with the choices I took for the collector missions.
Horizon:
Garrus + Tali
Collector Ship:
Garrus + Legion
Derelict Reaper:
Tali + Legion
I know...these choices are not ideal. I just wanted to ensure their survival since they are most important to me for ME3.
I have used Early Recruitment with this in case you're wondering why Tali and Legion are participating in earlier collector missions :)
I also romanced Tali again and did all loyalty missions.
Well, I figured I'd only pick the others for specialist choices besides them and only pick Garrus and Legion into my squad once to increase their readiness to Very High.
For information. Everyone was on Low Readiness except those three.
Except Miranda. Since Legion participated in Derelict Reaper as squadmate, she got the extra +1.
(Of course -_-)
I'll be giving the short version this time.
Jacob died (Low Tech Specialist)
Mordin died (Low Crew Escort)
Grunt died (Medium 2nd Leader) (Wrex is going to kill me...)
Jack died (Low Fireteam Leader, High Final Squadmate)
Miranda survived (Medium Biotic Specialist, Very High on Hold the Line) (Big surprise -_-)
Garrus survived (Very High on Hold the Line)
Tali survived (Very High on Hold the Line)
Samara survived (Medium Final Squadmate)
Legion survived (Very High on Hold the Line)
(I seriously don't like Miranda's plot armor here...)
And I think that's it. Kasumi and Zaeed were not recruited this time. I decided to go on to ME3 without them.
So far I accept the casualties except Grunt. Damnit, now I made him an Urdnot for nothing.
And I am to blame for choosing him as Fireteam Leader, should have picked him as Crew Escort instead and send Mordin to death, lol
(But I think I can also blame the extra +1 from Derelict Reaper being assigned to Miss Plot Armor instead of Grunt :P)
But at least Garrus, Tali and Legion survived. That's a good starting point for ME3. Mordin, Grunt, Jack and Jacob will be replaced but I think it will be interesting to see the differences.
I think for my next playthrough I will consider balancing the collector mission choices. Lesson learned.
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Oh and one more thing. You should probably add my mod "Loyalty Matters" to the list of incompatible mods since it's features are basically already present in your mod, which overwrites it anyway. Just wanted to point that out.
As for the extra +1 from Derelict Reaper being assigned to Miss Plot Armor, this is random... I didn't specifically favour Miranda.
I'll add your mod to the list of incompatible mods.
It was pretty funny since during my playthrough I jokingly predicted that she would get it since I took Legion aboard the reaper and then it gets real when I saw her on Medium Readiness State(since I did her loyalty mission beforehand).
Yes, I was surprised.
I am considering doing another playthrough with different choices. I will plan on avoiding the loyalty missions and ship upgrades entirely to see how much worse it can get if I come unprepared.
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I must again point out, how much replayability your mod provides for the suicide mission. I really like it, when your choices have consequences and you get to experience different results when choosing otherwise.
Of course you are not guaranteed to succeed at all times. But this mod basically makes you rethink, who you want to risk dieing and who you want to survive at all times since it's a suicide mission, remember? ;)
Yes, you can get lucky and get everyone out alive (like I did) or basically try to start the suicide mission with enough squadmates to have almost everyone profit from the readiness boosts and have the rest stay behind to be protected by the heroes holding the line.
You are actually committed to balance your odds by thinking strategically. I find that remarkable :)
So I played a second time with your mod and I choose Miranda as leader for the second team. She failed and Zaeed died.
BUT she didn't get a readiness bonus. She started with medium and stayed medium after that.
As biotic specialsist I chose Samara. Sadly, this time she also failed and Jacob was carried of by the swarm. BUT she got her Bonus going from Medium to Very High.
I didn't find anything saying that Miranda would be treated differntly with readiness for the second team. But has this to do with the fact that any other teamleader would have died in that case?
Can you please clarify? Thank you!
In my first playthough with your mod, I also choose Miranda a 2nd squad lead - that time she suceeded and ended up Very High.
While in my first playthrough 3 members died (Thane, Jack and Jacob), I had now 5 dead team members (all humans). With Miranda only being Medium instead of Very high I had to take her to the final assault with a low Jack, as otherwise not enough characters with Very High would have been left to hold the line. Well both died after the reaper - first time I saw that, also an experience.
I was planning on a high human casualty list for this run according to my headcanon for this ruthless earthborn shep, but didn't expect to casually wipe out all human squad members, lol. :D
As for the readiness, she gets the bonus if she succeeds but not if she fails. Because in the latter case, if not for her plot armor she should have died and her readiness bonus would then be lost anyway. It's different from the swarm situation, because there the biotic specialist always survives and it's another squadmate who dies. For the second team leader, it's the team leader who dies in principle (exception for Miranda).
Example: Both Miranda and Zaeed are at Medium. The Readiness aspect should be identical whether you pick Zaeed or Miranda, otherwise Miranda is a favourite choice for no good reason. If you pick Zaeed and he succeeds, you have 1 at Very High (Zaeed) and 1 at Medium. If he fails, you're left with 1 at Medium (Miranda). If you pick Miranda and she succeeds, you have 1 at Very High (Miranda) and 1 at Medium. If she fails, you're left with 1 at Medium (also Miranda because of her plot armor).
Sorry for your losses, I guess your Shep's mentality affected his/her choices and their consequences...
Although I tried to make something that I find more interesting than the vanilla system, so I wouldn't absolutely recommend against it, especially if the mechanics of the vanilla suicide mission have been spoiled for you.
You should be expected to have casualties and that nothing will come out perfect just for following a strict path.
The idea of the readiness system is a truly good idea. Reminds me of LE3 in some sort just for the squadmates individually.
To be fair, loyalty may be a fair reason why someone can suceed but if you look at the flowchart someone had made for the suicide mission, it goes to show that even if someone is loyal, they still may fail if they're not the right choice which sounds like a slap to the face for your "hard" effort.
With your mod other factors also come into play. The more you take certain squadmates on main missions, the more ready they will be for the final mission.
And at that point loyalty is basically less of a concern. It serves as a boost to make sure all squadmates are at least at low readiness but the majority of it depends on who you take with you most of the time(for the missions against the collectors).
I installed the mod on a savegame, which was just before the suicide mission, so I had the default values applied.
So I commenced the suicide mission. All ship upgrades were installed and everyone was loyal. Last I checked, all of the squadmates were at medium readiness except a few others which were at low. I think it was Jacob, Kasumi, Zaeed and Samara.
Let's just say I was cursing at the 25% fail chance for the armor check because Garrus (Medium Readiness) died. Of all the squadmates that could have been randomly chosen to die, it had to be my most favourite one. Damnit.
(And yes I was also surprised when I saw it because I know of the vanilla logic for these checks. Fail the armor one and Jack always dies. Well, not anymore. Anyone is now at risk here, which truly makes this more fearful)
All checks after it went without casualties.
Mordin(Medium) died as tech specialist afterwards. Jacob(Low) was his team leader.
Kasumi(Medium) died in the long walk. Jacob(High) was the Biotic Specialist. Thane was also on my squad at that time but was left unharmed.
Miranda was chosen to be the second team leader. Funnily I imagined how she would somehow screw up and get someone killed with her medium readiness + specialist bonus but alas, she came out and survived. (No, I don't hate Miranda but her plot armor)
I took Jack and Samara to the final fight. Jack died with her medium readiness while Samara survived(she was at medium readiness since I took her with me for the infiltration alongside Tali, so she went from low to medium after that phase).
Everyone survived the hold the line section. When Miranda spoke to me in the cutscene I saw someone get shot but that was probably a bug since Joker said after the final fight, that everyone is back aboard. (I would have seen a small cutscene after defeating the reaper if there were casualties for hold the line). Jacob and Miranda both were on very high readiness at that point and were left behind so they must have pulled some heroic saves. Nice one.
Speaking of Tali, even though I romanced her I wanted to take a risk and chose her as the escort for the crew. I was relieved to hear everyone had survived the escort(and I was glad that Tali was also safe and wouldn't be in danger anymore).
So in conclusion the casualties of my recent suicide mission(with default readiness settings) is as follows.
-Garrus (-_-)
-Mordin
-Kasumi
-Jack
So all in one, this mod is pretty well made. I can only imagine how much work and time had to be sacrificed in order to create this expanded system.
I have some questions which you may be able to answer.
-Is the motivation bonus for the specialist tasks applied immediately when you choose the squadmate or is it only applied after they finish their assignment without dieing. (For example, when I choose Jacob with Low Readiness as my tech specialist, will his readiness increase to High during the infiltration or after he survives?)
-Even if you have the Thanix Cannon installed, there still is a chance to fail this check, right? What exactly will happen when this check fails with the cannon installed? Will the cutscene play as if I never installed it or is there a slight change in the cannon cutscene where it can cut to a squadmate being impaled by debris? (EDIT: I found it out myself. After the cannon fires, there's a chance that Joker will fail when told to approach the enemy ship. He curses at the attackers and flies to the core of the enemy ship when this happens. That's where the "no cannon FMV" plays and thus the death scene happens)
-Did I understand the +1 for romanced squadmate correctly? If you romanced someone in ME2, only that squadmate receives +1 on readiness and if you didn't, every squadmate gets +1 instead? Sounds like you must avoid romancing a squadmate in order for everyone to be on medium/high readiness (at least on default settings when installing the mod into a pre-end save-game). (Shepard sure takes his time motivating that one squadmate, eh?)
(Sorry, couldn't resist that possibly stupid joke xD)
-Speaking of romance, what happens when I end the romance before the suicide mission? Is the +1 readiness boost still applied to every squadmate?
To answer your questions:
- The motivation bonus is applied afterwards. So if you pick Jacob at Low readiness for Tech specialist, his chances of succeeding that task are based on Low readiness. But if he survives, he will come out at High readiness. If you pick Tali at low readiness, her specialisation bonus means that her chances of succeeding are as if she was Medium readiness. And if she survives, she will come out at High readiness.
- The approach cutscenes are often smaller cutscenes that play one after the other. So whenever possible I re-connected them differently to account for cases where there is a fail with upgrade, or success without upgrade. For the Thannix canon, if the check fails with the upgrade installed, then the first shot will use the cannon, then Shepard says get close and finish them (with regular guns, as if Thannix needs recharge time). So you get the first part of the success cutscenes, and the second part of the fail cutscenes.
- If you have no active romance, it doesn't give +1 readiness to everyone. The "crew" is Chakwas etc, not the squadmates. So without romance, they have a better chance of surviving the pods, and the Escort segment has a higher chance of success (as if the escort squadmate had +1 readiness).
- I check the romance flag when you go through the omega-4 relay. So if the romance has been terminated, it's as if there was no romance at all.
- "When Miranda spoke to me in the cutscene I saw someone get shot but that was probably a bug". I think it always happens that way, there's one squadmate in the background that seems to get shot, but it doesn't mean that they die. I only changed that cutscene so that higher readiness squadmates are on the front, and lower readiness in the back, getting apparently shot. But it's not connected to the survival calculations, even in vanilla afaik.
I could have guessed that the motivation bonus only applies after the finished assignment. Or else the very low and low chances could never be applied if it was otherwise (imagine having someone very low and boosting them to medium during their assignment because they work as your tech specialist, would be kinda cheaty).
---
For the Thanix Cannon Check I noticed two possible outcomes, when it is installed.
Everything up to the point where Joker fires the cannon for the first time and Shepard says "Get closer and finish them off" is not part of the weapon check. Only in the upcoming FMV, where he flies towards the ship is where the check matters.
If it fails, the FMV cuts to Joker cursing at the ship and flieing to it's core, getting the Normandy hit in the process and triggering a random squadmate's death by impaling debris.
If it succeeds, the FMV cuts to him managing to fire the cannon a second time to destroy the enemy ship(like in vanilla).
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I have more questions. (I apologize if I ask too much)
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Romance Check
You're checking the romance flag when you go through the Omega 4-Relay? Does it matter if I rejected the romance scene of the active romance squadmate(since it happens when you commence the suicide mission) to disable the flag or would I have to break-up before I go through the Omega 4-Relay at all?
In other words when exactly is this flag checked? Once you speak to to the Illusive Man about the mission or when you start the mission by entering the Omega 4-Relay on the Galaxy Map(which means if a romance is already active at this point it's too late to back out of the romance penalty for the crew and bonus for the squadmate).
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Hold the Line and Final Battle
Which percentage is being checked for the final battle's squadmates? Is it "Failure" or "Success"?
If it is Success, is Heroic Success added to it?
(For example if Legion is Medium and Jacob is High, will Legion have 50% survival chance (20% Success + 30% Heroic Success) and Jacob will have 70 % (20% Success + 50 % Heroic Success), if they are not holding the line?
Or will I have to pray that the failure percentage does not pass the check? (Because Legion has 50% on Failure and Jacob has 30%)
In short, which percentage is actually checked in the final battle for the squadmates since the details you described in your article seem to only describe "Hold the Line" but not the Final Battle?
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Hold the Line Death Count
You haven't changed anything about the maximum death count of Hold the Line, correct? Only up to 3 squadmates can die at this point or can it actually be more than that? (The vanilla logic only allows up to 3 deaths here)
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Is there actually a way to manually change the readiness ranks, so I could simulate other squadmates for the three collector missions without having to replay the entire game?
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You can tell that my interest in this mod is high, especially since it prompts me to replay the suicide mission multiple times to see different outcomes (a trait I like in story-driven games where decisions matter).
Seeing Jacob finally succeed in his voluntarily Tech Mission(even though he was on low readiness, lol) and Miranda blasting the collectors to hell with her biotic barrier is a really good way to bring variety into this section of the game because their suggestions finally can turn out good.
And watching Tali actually being the one who protects Jacob successfully made me so proud of her.
- Final battle: I don't really understand your question. Both success and heroic success mean the squadmate survive. In your example, Legion would have 50% to survive, but that also means he has 50% chance to die (as in the "or" part of your question).
- Hold the line: I don't think there is a max casualties in vanilla. You can only see 3 corpses in the cutscene that plays, but more can die. I did play around with the idea of setting a limit on the number of casualties (to match the cutscene), but I think I removed that in the end.
- You can change stuff with the save editor (in Raw data). Check the link to memtech website on the bottom of the mod's description page. I put most of the detail of the plot variables (readiness is in the Plot Int; you probably need to set the plot bools for Horizon etc bonuses given as well - I'm not gonna give you the details of what everything means though, but you can play around starting from the info there).
- Glad you enjoy the mod enough to replay it, and want to know all the detaiils. And congrats to Jacob, Miranda, and Tali :)
But you already answered my percentage question. Legion on Medium had 50 % survival chance while Jacob had 70% on survival Chance.
I'll describe my second run. Maybe then it will be clearer.
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I took Jacob and Legion with me(which may have been a mistake since neither of them were at very high readiness) to the final fight and both died...
Not only that, Samara, Kasumi and Grunt also bit the bullet. I saw the cutscene showing their corpses when Joker reported their status.
Samara was on Medium along with Kasumi and Grunt. I guess that all of them didn't succeed even through they were on Medium.
Zaeed was the only one on Low but either he succeeded or was saved. Garrus, Tali and Miranda were left behind with very high readiness. Thane was on Medium readiness along with Mordin.
But I saw in another comment, that whoever gets saved from the failed squadmates is random. Maybe Zaeed, Thane and Mordin were the lucky ones here, because they possibly failed (along with Kasumi, Samara and Grunt) and got saved and the other 3 weren't so lucky because Garrus, Tali and Miranda were only able to save those three.
At least that's what I presume.
So in summary I lost 5 squadmates in the end.
-Jacob (Final Fight) (High)
-Legion (Final Fight) (Medium)
-Samara (Hold the Line) (Medium)
-Kasumi (Hold the Line) (Medium)
-Grunt (Hold the Line) (Medium)
The rest survived.
Assigned Tasks
-Jacob (Low Tech Specialist)
-Tali (Medium Infiltration Team Leader)
-Miranda (High Biotic Specialist)
-Garrus (High Long Walk Team Leader)
-Jack (Crew Escort)
Infiltration Squad
-Garrus
-Miranda
Long Walk Squad
-Samara
-Kasumi
Final Fight Squad
-Jacob
-Legion
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So how did Jacob and Legion die here? Did they fail their success percentage checks for the final fight? Legion was basically 50/50, while Jacob was 70/30. Did I get unlucky here?
I most likely had bad luck for hold the line since only Garrus, Tali and Miranda seemed to have succeeded and Thane, Mordin and Zaeed were saved from death instead of Samara, Kasumi and Grunt. Literally it seems like everyone except the 3 Heroes failed in holding the line.
Perhaps I should have also left Jacob behind then since he was on high readiness. Taking high readiness squadmates into the final battle prevents them from saving squadmates who fail holding the line.
Which basically means. If I had left Jacob behind, Kasumi, Samara or Grunt could have been saved as well?
In your case, at the final fight, both Legion and Jacob failed their check. It doesn't depend on anything else.
Holding the line, you can guess what happened, and it could be what you write but it could be something else as well. Maybe Zaeed got lucky and succeeded. Maybe not all 3 of the High Readiness made a heroic save. Etc.
If you had left Jacob holding the line and sent a lower readiness squadmate (say Samara) to the final fight instead, you would have had a better chance of losing fewer squadmates holding the line (but a larger chance of losing Samara at the final fight). But knowing the result afterwards, if Jacob failed at the final fight he would also have failed holding the line (it's the same check).
Say Jacob (High) is going to fail, and Samara (Medium) is going to fail as well. Then sending Jacob or Samara to the final fight won't make any difference in the number of casualties (only thing is that the one holding the line has a chance to be saved).
If Jacob is going to make a heroic success and Samara is going to get a normal success. Then keeping Jacob holding the line would have resulted in one less casualty.
But ofc you don't know which one it is beforehand.
(Since I have a feeling that your mod actually encourages to do so because of the mission bonus limit you have set. You can only get 6 squadmates on medium, since you only have 3 missions for the field experience. The rest would stay on very low or low depending on loyalty)
But then again you can get unlucky with the upgrade checks.
I have a feeling that in order to have a perfect run with this mod, you'd need to initiate the suicide mission with less than 12 squadmates, recruiting the rest of them after the suicide mission to keep them safe for ME3.
However I don't know how many you MUST recruit before the game allows to initiate the suicide mission.
I replayed the mod many times with all 12 squadmates but realize that there is a very high probability for some squadmates to die this way, since I can't boost everyone to high/very high readiness during the mission with the maximum squadmate count. Some at least stay on medium and are endangered in the end.
True, they could survive on medium if lucky but a higher readiness rank lessens the chance of failing.
I feel pretty safe with High to be honest.
With a lower total count of squadmates I could actually increase my chances accordingly since I could cover enough squadmates for the motivation bonuses.
Yes, I could use the prothean relic but I like to think a bit strategically with this mod now :D
I know that Miranda, Jacob and Mordin are mandatory. Especially Mordin, since you can't start Horizon without recruiting him.
I think after Horizon the game checks for total squadmate count in order to determine when the player is ready for the suicide mission but I don't know how high that limit actually is.
You wouldn't happen to know the limit here, would you?
Or maybe you could give me a personal recommendation on how many squadmates I should have in my Squad before starting the suicide mission?
It's possible that with my mod, the chances to not lose anyone are somewhat larger if you go with 8 rather than 12. But it's not a huge difference, it's only for the 6 readiness points that get split over 8 rather than 12 squadmates. Sorry to say that you're still rather unlikely to make it with everyone alive. If you lose someone, you're also more likely to lose someone with higher readiness.
I decided to do another run with default values in order to give me bit of confidence when replaying the game with this mod installed.
This time I went in with the mindset to expect casualties, so I planned, which squadmates would be the most important to me for ME3.
In this case Garrus, Legion and Tali.
Starting Readiness Stats
Garrus - Medium
Tali - Medium(Low + Romance)
Legion - Medium
Jack - Medium
Miranda - Medium
Mordin - Medium
Thane - Medium
Jacob - Low
Samara - Low
Zaeed - Low
Kasumi - Low
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At the first attempt I got unlucky right at the start. Legion died from the armor check(25% -_-). I immediately reloaded my pre-suicide mission savegame.
So I retried.
This time all checks went without casualties. Everyone survived until then.
Then I chose the following squadmates for Infiltration Phase.
Tali - Boosted Medium Tech Specialist
Garrus - Boosted Medium Fireteam Leader
I took Miranda and Legion into my squad.
I obviously took a risk here. Tali could have died but both her and Garrus succeeded the check and went up to Very High immediately.
So it went well so far.
The crew also survived since my save had 0 missions after the abduction. (The 90% worked in my favor there, since I romanced Tali)
For the Long Walk I chose the following squadmates.
Samara - Boosted Low Biotic Specialist
Mordin - Medium Fireteam Leader
The reason I chose Mordin? Because his death has little impact on ME3 and I had to think about who I could risk dieing.
Intended to have Legion survive early I chose him as the Crew Escort.
Jack and Thane joined me on the Long Walk.
To be fair I expected one of them to die here.
In the conclusion of Long Walk it seemed like Thane was picked for the death check.
But then Samara succeeded with her Medium Readiness. She went up to High immediately along with Jack and Thane.
So far so good.
I chose Mordin as the fireteam leader. Probably not the best decision because he's a doctor xD
But to my surprise, he survived with Medium Readiness and went up to Very High instantly.
I was cheering because Legion made it and escorted the crew successfully. Legion was therefore out of danger now. Score!
So, last phase.
Final Readiness Stats
Garrus - Very High
Tali - Very High
Jack - High
Miranda - High
Mordin - Very High
Thane - High
Jacob - Low
Samara - High
Zaeed - Low
Kasumi - Low
Now I had to make a decision who I'd take with me to the final fight.
I decided to take Jacob and Thane. Yeah, I actually decided to take someone with Low Readiness to the final fight with the same mindset as before. I had to think about who I could risk dieing and I didn't want to take a second High/Very High with me because I wanted to keep things balanced for Hold The Line. Possibly a stupid idea.
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However I was in for a surprise...
Jacob and Thane both survived, which shocked me. Jacob got lucky with his Low Readiness.
To be fair, I expected him to die with his low readiness, joke's on me
But I couldn't celebrate yet. I had to wait for Joker's report about the squad holding the line.
All survivors on board. We're just waiting for you.
I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Everyone survived holding the line!
The only squadmates I could think of being in danger where Zaeed and Kasumi.
They were either saved by the Heroes or survived on their own. Maybe even Jacob pushed his luck onto them. No idea.
But I am proud to say that this time, all 12 squadmates survived the suicide mission with your mod installed :D
I'm happy about the outcome even if I actually expected someone to die again :D
I am truly in charge of the team before the suicide mission. And what’s funny is that I actually don’t risk anything if the experiment is unsuccessful.
Now at about just after the choosing team and who holds the line for the last of Suicide Mission, the choices are with me but squad icons not showing at the bottom so for example I can't tell them to switch weapons. Unsure if compatibility issue with a mod (not listed under compatibilities section) or just my game having bugged out earlier anyways, as it had (such as thinking I hadn't down Zaeed's loyalty mission and Shadow Broker DLC which I definitely had done)
Still in middle of game, but can have it generate a log; however that'll still take a bit to generate. Otherwise, so far things seem normal with this. https://me3tweaks.com/modmanager/logservice/logviewer?logid=f53eaa067f3f19209d38747a9968d8bb
in case it helps
Not sure what the problem was, but I doubt it was due to my mod, since it doesn't touch the combat sections. You certainly shouldn't be able to take Thane alone under the bubble. Not sure how you did manage that? But not surprised that it causeed issues down the line.
Didn't take him alone, had another squad with me under the bubble. Just, wanted to stat up Thane and noticed then that I lacked a squad icon, had two N7 (for Shep) on the levelup screen, going to the other just still was Shep's levelup screen. Also was going to have squad switch weapons, and couldn't do that because Thane not technically in Squad but still did combat and following as if in squad. Turned the camera after noticed lack of icon, Thane spawned there anyways.
After that, chosen squad for reaper and the before fight behaved like Thane with the biotic bubble. Cutscene was pretty silly, saving invisible squadmate. they were just standing offscreen then XD maybe even floating in the air, but because where cutscene cam was couldn't see em. Rubble scene of collector Base normal after with that cutscene.
Edit add: Could be due to my messup of the game, but even so I lost no one aside from Kelly Chambers and Gabby. and bunch of nameless randos if wish to include them. From squad choices lost no one, had all ship upgrades, and everyone loyal.. Getting Legion's loyalty be why I lost Gabby and Kelly probably.
Edit 2: On that note, trying to check the Readiness via that console in game didn't do anything when I selected a squad to check. just closed the console window out.
I believe I saved a copy of my messed-modded game should anyone wish to take a look at it? game itself. Decided to refresh my games after the glitchy Suicide Mission and completing post-mission Arrival DLC. Going to try to mind what mods I apply this time once finish up refreshed ME1(LE1) play in progress.
Best way to - when use this; maybe another game run after my current ME2 run, to give Garrus highest possibility of surviving everything?
As for Garrus: you can take him on the 3 main missions and gain his loyalty so his Readiness is Very High.
For the approach, you can take him to fight the Oculus, but he might still die at the armor or weapon check (in that case, you can reload just before the omega-4 relay).
For the rest, you can avoid putting him at risk (don't choose him as tech specialist, in the combat squad under the biotic bubble, escorting the crew, or as second team leader).
And then leave him in the group holding the line, you might lose him there, but the chance is low.
Just want to confirm. Are you saying to leave him or not leave him to hold the line for him to survive (have high chance of surviving)?
And I always make sure I have my ship upgrades, using save editor tto fix a bug that happens to me that undoes a ship upgrade that I somehow keep triggering
Usually have Mordin do the escort, and a tech specialist do the tech anyways
Anyway, you can still use the Prothean sphere in the mod to revive everyone afterwards. Or save-edit to revive only Garrus.