- _d (DIFFUSE) files are all easy DXT1 or DXT5 (alpha)
- _s (SPEC) maps require Intel Texture Works plugin (IntelTextureWorks.8bi), i use BC7 fine linear.
- note: appears that the BaseFemaleHead_s needs to be saved as 3DC from Nvidia DDS plugins, not Intel BC7 and must be 512x512. must have something to do with the partial area swapping of ears, neck etc in SLM menu. as the FemaleBody_s i saved in Intel BC7 (like most fo4 spec maps) not Nvidia 3DC.
- _n (NORMAL) maps can be created using Nvidia Normal settings (invert Y wrap off) - save as 24 BPP uncompressed, then open the normal texture you created and fill the Blue channel with pure black - optionally add alpha channel if needed, then re-save with Nvidia 3DC (create normals option unticked, just plain 3DC) - Saving normals with Nvidia 3DC will affect lighting direction but still work and look fine ingame.
Important Notes/Tips:
- Do not open textures that include alpha channel with Intel Texture Works plugin, *1st remove the plugin from your plug-ins directory, re-save as psd, bmp or tga - close, then drop the plugin back in. re-open psd, bmp or tga and edit the alpha layer then save in whatever format applies (DXT5 for _d | BC7 linear for _s | 3DC for _n)
- if 3DC maps look the wrong colour, it doesn't matter - the blue channel is ignored anyway, filling blue channel with black can make the texture easier to work with. (opening with Intel Plugin: Blue channel is auto Black, Nvidia Plugin doesn't)
- *SageThumbs app is essential, right-click convert to BMP helps with the Intel Plugin channel issues (_d only) - Never use Paint.Net as the author has said it will never support alpha, better to put your time into Photoshop or Gimp. - Graphics card type does not matter whatsoever, as long as it plays FO4 (dx11)
Hope this helps, all tested and works in my personal mods from objects to body texture files This is modding existing game files, to create ground up fancy _msn normals will require more technical programs of course
"- _s (SPEC) maps require Intel Texture Works plugin (IntelTextureWorks.8bi), i use BC7 fine linear."
_s maps (red for specular mask and green for gloss mask) should be saved just like normal maps, in BC5. They don't use the blue channel so using BC7 sacrifices quality while using the same size as BC5.
"- Do not open textures that include alpha channel with Intel Texture Works plugin,"
This is not correct, ITW opens alpha channels just fine, at least in the current version. Simply check the alpha channel option when opening the image, and the alpha will be loaded in the channels panel.
"- if 3DC maps look the wrong colour, it doesn't matter - the blue channel is ignored anyway,"
It does matter. Those maps use a 2 channel compression format, and blue channel is not there. But when opened with Nvidia, the levels look completely wrong in the other channels because Nvidia's plugin expects a different bits per pixel resolution. It's not just the missing blue channel, the image color is all wrong, too bright, which can be fixed with a level correction but is not worth the time. In other words, don't open 2 channel BC5 (used in _s and _n) with Nvidia's plugin. Use ITW instead which does support this compression format.
thanks for the knowledge Yogensya, i'll redo some of my textures testing with these updates and re-edit my quick tips. at the end of the day, i'm just trying to get the newbies started
Not to beat a dead horse, But i can confirm Yogensya suggestions, *Blue channel is not used in Fallout 4 Spec or Normals, Blue channel is an anomaly created by the out dated Nvidia tools. *Spec and Normals are BC5 *Diffused is best saved in BC7 Linear Fine, yes the game is backward compatible with old formats but its not ideal *When using BA2 with BC7 compressed DDS ONLY use Archive2.exe as the community tools (at the time of writing this) will corrupt the Diffused files on extraction.
Here are a couple tools to make life easier. 3ds Max 2013 DDS Read Plugin http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/20540/? (Confirmed working in 3ds Max 2013 as that is all I have) **Fast Picture Viewer Codec Pack http://www.fastpictureviewer.com/codecs/ (Confirmed working on BC7/DX10+)
**Note PAID (yes it sucks to buy things digital but sometimes it is a necessary "evil")
A lot of great stuff in here. This was written for Skyrim, but much still applies.
A few exceptions:
Fallout 4 uses different DDS formats. The old diffuse map formats still work alright, but normal and specular maps will not. They are entirely different formats.
The Intel Texture Works plugin needs mention, as it can write these new formats, which the 3-year-old nVidia plugins can not.
The nVidia tools can write 3Dc just fine. All these lies being spread around about it not being able to are really getting old. Just because you can't open and edit someone else's work and save it again doesn't mean the tools don't work. If you actually make your own content, they work just fine.
The Intel tools destroy the blue channel on opening, thereby ruining the normal and specular maps. And no, simply inverting the blue channel to be all white does not fix it. There are many flaws with the Intel tools that do not exist with the nVidia or ATI tools.
When you download the nVidia tools, it installs a ton of documentation. Go to your programs and look for nVidia corporation and expand that folder. You will find the PDF files that have everything you need to know about them.
Looks like you have a good handle on things in your tuts. They should prove to be useful for new plethora of modders we're getting this time around.
In response to post #32460700. #32461660 is also a reply to the same post.
I think the worst thing about the beta Intel plugin is that it embeds the alpha channel, rather than treating it as a separate channel. Definitely a WIP. I guess my comment came from my frustration with not being able to figure out how to port normals from Skyrim. I've found a few cool things that help, like http://cpetry.github.io/NormalMap-Online/ ... working with that has yielded some passable Fallout 4 normals. Maybe if I actually used 3D paint tools instead of fudging it, I'd have better luck :)
I would KILL for a good Fallout 4 normal map tutorial, hell a amazing normal map tutorial at all would be nice.. I have been just scooting by with my normal maps would love to actually make some nice ones and for fallout 4 even would be awesome.
Thanks Mr. Dave! Good to see the modding community continue to grow. Keeps it interesting
I've updated this tut in the past years sometimes by finding info I thnk would be helpful and sometimes via request. What do you mean by Fallout normals? I could probably add in in-depth normal mapping tut section to this, but if you're just looking for software to generate normal maps from an existing texture, the best out there is CrazyBump or NDO.
nDO cost money for the current version but if you navigate to the bottom of the page you can download the lagacy for free. http://quixel.se/dev/ndo
An interesting development just now from the developer of the Intel plugin ... https://github.com/GameTechDev/ITW-Beta-Test/issues/8
He claims the Intel Texture Works plugin "can't destroy the Blue channel. Because the normals and speculars in Fallout 4 does not use the blue channel. ITW opens and saves the textures correctly. It's the nVidia plugin that doesn't know how to properly open them. The Red channel in speculars handle Specular, while green channel handles Gloss." Blue channel, nothing.
Matches what I've seen elsewhere. If anyone has evidence that the blue channel is used by normal or specular maps in FO4, I'd suggest posting it on their github page.
As the dev says, the blue channel is NOT used in _s and _n textures.
The blue channel of a tangent space normal map can be discarded and reconstructed by the GPU, so no need to store it in the textures. When you open it with ITW you get just the red and green channels of the normal map, and you can paint the blue channel white to get a very close result of the original normal map.
There are also actions for Photoshop (http://eat3d.com/forum/tips-tricks-and-free-videos/derivative-map-photoshop-actions) that allow to reconstruct the blue channel with different levels of accuracy (assuming the normal map was normalized to begin with).
off the top of my head, mark your app "run as administrator" and also check the video performance settings if using photoshop -> preferences -> performance -graphics processor settings -> advanced. lower from advanced to normal. (this can change depending on graphics driver) but it's prolly just a run as admin issue.
You have no idea the digging I been doing to find information and then suddenly I find your tutorial its heavenly. The community needs more people like you to share the Kung Fu of modding.
My apologies, I should have dug into this more before posting the tut for Fallout 4.
The reason you're having an issue with normal maps is because Fallout 4 uses Linear for it's normal maps in game, and most of the map generators, engines, etc, use sRGB. I posted a sample of a Fallout 4 wrench prop in Toolbag 2.
Mr. Dave was right though, the Intel tool destroys the BLUE channel upon import. (solid black) Filling it with solid white doesn't help because the normal map no longer has any Z / depth information.
Here's another example using the back of the mini-gun.
21 comments
- _d (DIFFUSE) files are all easy DXT1 or DXT5 (alpha)
- _s (SPEC) maps require Intel Texture Works plugin (IntelTextureWorks.8bi), i use BC7 fine linear.
- note: appears that the BaseFemaleHead_s needs to be saved as 3DC from Nvidia DDS plugins, not Intel BC7 and must be 512x512.
must have something to do with the partial area swapping of ears, neck etc in SLM menu.
as the FemaleBody_s i saved in Intel BC7 (like most fo4 spec maps) not Nvidia 3DC.
- _n (NORMAL) maps can be created using Nvidia Normal settings (invert Y wrap off) - save as 24 BPP uncompressed,
then open the normal texture you created and fill the Blue channel with pure black - optionally add alpha channel if needed,
then re-save with Nvidia 3DC (create normals option unticked, just plain 3DC)
- Saving normals with Nvidia 3DC will affect lighting direction but still work and look fine ingame.
Important Notes/Tips:
- Do not open textures that include alpha channel with Intel Texture Works plugin,
*1st remove the plugin from your plug-ins directory, re-save as psd, bmp or tga - close, then drop the plugin back in.
re-open psd, bmp or tga and edit the alpha layer then save in whatever format applies
(DXT5 for _d | BC7 linear for _s | 3DC for _n)
- if 3DC maps look the wrong colour, it doesn't matter - the blue channel is ignored anyway,
filling blue channel with black can make the texture easier to work with.
(opening with Intel Plugin: Blue channel is auto Black, Nvidia Plugin doesn't)
- *SageThumbs app is essential, right-click convert to BMP helps with the Intel Plugin channel issues (_d only)
- Never use Paint.Net as the author has said it will never support alpha, better to put your time into Photoshop or Gimp.
- Graphics card type does not matter whatsoever, as long as it plays FO4 (dx11)
Hope this helps, all tested and works in my personal mods from objects to body texture files
This is modding existing game files, to create ground up fancy _msn normals will require more technical programs of course
(edit: updated)
_s maps (red for specular mask and green for gloss mask) should be saved just like normal maps, in BC5. They don't use the blue channel so using BC7 sacrifices quality while using the same size as BC5.
"- Do not open textures that include alpha channel with Intel Texture Works plugin,"
This is not correct, ITW opens alpha channels just fine, at least in the current version. Simply check the alpha channel option when opening the image, and the alpha will be loaded in the channels panel.
"- if 3DC maps look the wrong colour, it doesn't matter - the blue channel is ignored anyway,"
It does matter. Those maps use a 2 channel compression format, and blue channel is not there. But when opened with Nvidia, the levels look completely wrong in the other channels because Nvidia's plugin expects a different bits per pixel resolution. It's not just the missing blue channel, the image color is all wrong, too bright, which can be fixed with a level correction but is not worth the time. In other words, don't open 2 channel BC5 (used in _s and _n) with Nvidia's plugin. Use ITW instead which does support this compression format.
at the end of the day, i'm just trying to get the newbies started
*Blue channel is not used in Fallout 4 Spec or Normals, Blue channel is an anomaly created by the out dated Nvidia tools.
*Spec and Normals are BC5
*Diffused is best saved in BC7 Linear Fine, yes the game is backward compatible with old formats but its not ideal
*When using BA2 with BC7 compressed DDS ONLY use Archive2.exe as the community tools (at the time of writing this) will corrupt the Diffused files on extraction.
Here are a couple tools to make life easier.
3ds Max 2013 DDS Read Plugin http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/20540/? (Confirmed working in 3ds Max 2013 as that is all I have)
**Fast Picture Viewer Codec Pack http://www.fastpictureviewer.com/codecs/ (Confirmed working on BC7/DX10+)
**Note PAID (yes it sucks to buy things digital but sometimes it is a necessary "evil")
- Fallout 4 uses different DDS formats. The old diffuse map formats still work alright, but normal and specular maps will not. They are entirely different formats.
- The Intel Texture Works plugin needs mention, as it can write these new formats, which the 3-year-old nVidia plugins can not.
The rest is golden, I think :)The Intel tools destroy the blue channel on opening, thereby ruining the normal and specular maps. And no, simply inverting the blue channel to be all white does not fix it. There are many flaws with the Intel tools that do not exist with the nVidia or ATI tools.
When you download the nVidia tools, it installs a ton of documentation. Go to your programs and look for nVidia corporation and expand that folder. You will find the PDF files that have everything you need to know about them.
Looks like you have a good handle on things in your tuts.
I think the worst thing about the beta Intel plugin is that it embeds the alpha channel, rather than treating it as a separate channel. Definitely a WIP. I guess my comment came from my frustration with not being able to figure out how to port normals from Skyrim. I've found a few cool things that help, like http://cpetry.github.io/NormalMap-Online/ ... working with that has yielded some passable Fallout 4 normals. Maybe if I actually used 3D paint tools instead of fudging it, I'd have better luck :)
I've updated this tut in the past years sometimes by finding info I thnk would be helpful and sometimes via request. What do you mean by Fallout normals? I could probably add in in-depth normal mapping tut section to this, but if you're just looking for software to generate normal maps from an existing texture, the best out there is CrazyBump or NDO.
nDO cost money for the current version but if you navigate to the bottom of the page you can download the lagacy for free. http://quixel.se/dev/ndo
He claims the Intel Texture Works plugin "can't destroy the Blue channel. Because the normals and speculars in Fallout 4 does not use the blue channel. ITW opens and saves the textures correctly. It's the nVidia plugin that doesn't know how to properly open them. The Red channel in speculars handle Specular, while green channel handles Gloss." Blue channel, nothing.
Matches what I've seen elsewhere. If anyone has evidence that the blue channel is used by normal or specular maps in FO4, I'd suggest posting it on their github page.
The blue channel of a tangent space normal map can be discarded and reconstructed by the GPU, so no need to store it in the textures. When you open it with ITW you get just the red and green channels of the normal map, and you can paint the blue channel white to get a very close result of the original normal map.
There are also actions for Photoshop (http://eat3d.com/forum/tips-tricks-and-free-videos/derivative-map-photoshop-actions) that allow to reconstruct the blue channel with different levels of accuracy (assuming the normal map was normalized to begin with).
if using photoshop -> preferences -> performance -graphics processor settings -> advanced. lower from advanced to normal. (this can change depending on graphics driver) but it's prolly just a run as admin issue.
The reason you're having an issue with normal maps is because Fallout 4 uses Linear for it's normal maps in game, and most of the map generators, engines, etc, use sRGB. I posted a sample of a Fallout 4 wrench prop in Toolbag 2.
Mr. Dave was right though, the Intel tool destroys the BLUE channel upon import. (solid black) Filling it with solid white doesn't help because the normal map no longer has any Z / depth information.
Here's another example using the back of the mini-gun.
-Natterforme