FAQ: The navmeshed versions of your settlements mods are separate from the deep-cleaned version right?
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They are separate, indeed. I am keeping navmeshed versions available as standalone versions. Deep Clean Settlement mod/ Collection allows for individual installation via DL or selection from the fomod installer. So you can chose if you do or do not want to use a DC settlement mod.
Are you including these navmesh updates in your Deep Clean version?
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All the navmesh updates are getting added to the DCnR features as well. Which is convenient for both playstyles (the vanilla mess with better navmeshing or the cleaned-up and better navmeshing).
Is this navmesh update mod compatible with SS2, SS1 or ?
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SS1 & SS2? Absolutely Yes. These navmesh fixes were requested by an SS2 team member named Yasigan who runs the SS2 city competitions as to compete they can only use vanilla settlements.
My Deep Clean settlements are also SS2 compatible, and get these updated navmeshes.
For all other mods, mostly yes. If a mod updates terrain significantly, or changes navmesh for the settlements than no, otherwise the answer is yes.
At this time I only know of one other modder who even does just navmesh updates, and they have 2. The might be a handful of other modders that have re-navmeshing in their settlement mods, but I doubt it would be more than a 2-3. RealJenn (who made the tutorial video I learned from to do these) has the Simple Clean series for example that updated navmesh, but modifies the terrain and structures in the settlements so much it would not be compatible with these updated navmesh mods (meant for vanilla settlements) or my Deep Clean series, which modifies the terrain only a little bit. So what problems did you fix? I'm interested but I am not sure what issues are there.
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Stolen from Glitchfinder's JP Navmesh Update: Ever found yourself building at most settlements, only to realize the settlers weren't the sharpest tools in the shed? Trying to walk through benches, running around the settlement rather than through it, and generally just not really understanding where they could walk? Turns out most settlements need some real work.
The main issues are precuts, areas missing navmesh, navmesh below terrain and navmesh poorly shaped.
Precuts: objects that can be scrapped or moved get a special navmesh under them to prevent NPCs from moving thru them, this is called "pre-cut". When you scrap or move those objects the navmesh under them opens up for NPCs. Most precuts in the game were autogenerated and have poor shapes creating delays to NPCs navigating the space. Also most exterior pre-cuts where much larger than the objects they were under to the point where large sections of settlements would be un-navigable by NPCs, until those trees, cars, etc were scrapped. Lastly, a lot of objects that are scrapable did not get precuts at all.
Areas missing Navmesh: A large variety of objects/sections are missing or deliberately did not get navmeshed, these include: Large rocks/Cliffs, small/low rocks, hill edges, ramping terrain, fallen logs, junk or trash piles that are low to the ground, so on. When remeshing these I do not do objects with more than an apparent 30 degree ramp up, or large protruding objects BUT honestly there is no reason that logs parallel to the ground should not be navigable. Also many of the high to low sections like cliffs and hill edges can get something called an Edge Portals, which I call jump-downs (as that is what the NPCs do when they use them), so I mesh those cliff/hill edges so the NPCs will actually use them. Many of the hill edges were setup that only flyers would use them, as far as I know flyers will use those Edge Portals to go up.
Navmesh below terrain: A large part of the navmesh in most exterior cells is below the terrain itself. Sometimes it is not very much and the pathing AI can handle it, other times its a massive difference and the AI fails badly. Rocky cliff areas have the worst of this I have seen so far with mesh several feet below the surface, but if you look at a before image (I try to post a before and after for each of these), you will notice massive sections of road and ground that are below the red triangles that make up the navmesh.
Navmesh poorly shaped: So the autogenerated navmesh (especially the precuts) make weird elongated shapes that the NPCs will hesitate or act drunk or spin around using. While the transition sections thru doorways and changes in elevation can have narrow triangles (I do this myself) these are sections that the mesh must use the narrow triangles. Autogen mesh with create primary paths where it is not uncommon to have an elongated triangle 1/3rd the length of a cell (roughly 100 feet) and less than a foot wide, that is a triangle with dimensions 100 x 100 x 1... and it normal to have several triangles like this stacked!
I basically stress tested your mod. I was just attacked by 4 sentry bots and 4 assaultrons from NPC travels mod at Country Crossing. CTD in 30 seconds afterwards. i wanna remove this mod and see if the CTDs stop. can i do that mid-playthrough?
Beantown Interiors - Recently a modder discovered BTI has apparently some navmesh close to some settlements, if you are trying to run both at this time the suggested guidance is to place BTI after this mod. This might reduce or negate the mesh update from this mod.
This has to do with how navmesh is absurd about adding in several cells well outside the area that is being worked on in CK, if you are not careful updating navmesh.
If you discover any overlap issues between this settlement and BTI for navmesh conflicts please let me know.
Absolutely Yes. These navmesh fixes were requested by an SS2 team member named Yasigan who runs the SS2 city competitions as to compete they can only use vanilla settlements.
My Deep Clean settlements are also SS2 compatible, and get these updated navmeshes.
it would make sense to bundle the expansion of settlement recreation/usability boxes (similar to buildzone but what NPCs use to know where to relax at), and navmesh fixes.
Biggest issue is that most navmesh fixes tie directly to the terrain and structural objects like walls, so settlements with changes would make vanilla navmesh fixes less effective to potentially not helping much at all.
16 comments
The navmeshed versions of your settlements mods are separate from the deep-cleaned version right?
They are separate, indeed. I am keeping navmeshed versions available as standalone versions. Deep Clean Settlement mod/ Collection allows for individual installation via DL or selection from the fomod installer. So you can chose if you do or do not want to use a DC settlement mod.
Are you including these navmesh updates in your Deep Clean version?
All the navmesh updates are getting added to the DCnR features as well. Which is convenient for both playstyles (the vanilla mess with better navmeshing or the cleaned-up and better navmeshing).
Is this navmesh update mod compatible with SS2, SS1 or ?
SS1 & SS2? Absolutely Yes. These navmesh fixes were requested by an SS2 team member named Yasigan who runs the SS2 city competitions as to compete they can only use vanilla settlements.
My Deep Clean settlements are also SS2 compatible, and get these updated navmeshes.
For all other mods, mostly yes. If a mod updates terrain significantly, or changes navmesh for the settlements than no, otherwise the answer is yes.
At this time I only know of one other modder who even does just navmesh updates, and they have 2. The might be a handful of other modders that have re-navmeshing in their settlement mods, but I doubt it would be more than a 2-3. RealJenn (who made the tutorial video I learned from to do these) has the Simple Clean series for example that updated navmesh, but modifies the terrain and structures in the settlements so much it would not be compatible with these updated navmesh mods (meant for vanilla settlements) or my Deep Clean series, which modifies the terrain only a little bit.
So what problems did you fix? I'm interested but I am not sure what issues are there.
Ever found yourself building at most settlements, only to realize the settlers weren't the sharpest tools in the shed? Trying to walk through benches, running around the settlement rather than through it, and generally just not really understanding where they could walk? Turns out most settlements need some real work.
The main issues are precuts, areas missing navmesh, navmesh below terrain and navmesh poorly shaped.
Precuts: objects that can be scrapped or moved get a special navmesh under them to prevent NPCs from moving thru them, this is called "pre-cut". When you scrap or move those objects the navmesh under them opens up for NPCs. Most precuts in the game were autogenerated and have poor shapes creating delays to NPCs navigating the space. Also most exterior pre-cuts where much larger than the objects they were under to the point where large sections of settlements would be un-navigable by NPCs, until those trees, cars, etc were scrapped. Lastly, a lot of objects that are scrapable did not get precuts at all.
Areas missing Navmesh: A large variety of objects/sections are missing or deliberately did not get navmeshed, these include: Large rocks/Cliffs, small/low rocks, hill edges, ramping terrain, fallen logs, junk or trash piles that are low to the ground, so on. When remeshing these I do not do objects with more than an apparent 30 degree ramp up, or large protruding objects BUT honestly there is no reason that logs parallel to the ground should not be navigable. Also many of the high to low sections like cliffs and hill edges can get something called an Edge Portals, which I call jump-downs (as that is what the NPCs do when they use them), so I mesh those cliff/hill edges so the NPCs will actually use them. Many of the hill edges were setup that only flyers would use them, as far as I know flyers will use those Edge Portals to go up.
Navmesh below terrain: A large part of the navmesh in most exterior cells is below the terrain itself. Sometimes it is not very much and the pathing AI can handle it, other times its a massive difference and the AI fails badly. Rocky cliff areas have the worst of this I have seen so far with mesh several feet below the surface, but if you look at a before image (I try to post a before and after for each of these), you will notice massive sections of road and ground that are below the red triangles that make up the navmesh.
Navmesh poorly shaped: So the autogenerated navmesh (especially the precuts) make weird elongated shapes that the NPCs will hesitate or act drunk or spin around using. While the transition sections thru doorways and changes in elevation can have narrow triangles (I do this myself) these are sections that the mesh must use the narrow triangles. Autogen mesh with create primary paths where it is not uncommon to have an elongated triangle 1/3rd the length of a cell (roughly 100 feet) and less than a foot wide, that is a triangle with dimensions 100 x 100 x 1... and it normal to have several triangles like this stacked!
I was just attacked by 4 sentry bots and 4 assaultrons from NPC travels mod at Country Crossing. CTD in 30 seconds afterwards.
i wanna remove this mod and see if the CTDs stop.
can i do that mid-playthrough?
This has to do with how navmesh is absurd about adding in several cells well outside the area that is being worked on in CK, if you are not careful updating navmesh.
If you discover any overlap issues between this settlement and BTI for navmesh conflicts please let me know.
My Deep Clean settlements are also SS2 compatible, and get these updated navmeshes.
https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/68296
Thumbs up for you!
Biggest issue is that most navmesh fixes tie directly to the terrain and structural objects like walls, so settlements with changes would make vanilla navmesh fixes less effective to potentially not helping much at all.
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