I was going to complain about not being able to clean up the trash and dead cars at the south end of the bridge.
However, it turn out the the extremely extended borders in neeher's All Settlements Extended very conveniently cover this exact area, which fixes the problem quite neatly.
The only thing I have left to kvetch about so far is the large pile of trash at the north end of the bridge. However, as I can put a guard tower over it, it's not a major issue.
I was just curious about Sim Settlement compatibility? I use a hangman's alley pre-build settlement for Sim Commonwealth Rising, and just wondered if there would be any adverse effects. That's all. ~ty
[edit] Never mind, I have found my answer. It doesn't work with normally Sim Settlements Rise of the Commonwealth Hangman's Valley, because of the disabling of the WS. Although, seems like Jaderiver found a temporary work around if you're somewhat tech savvy.
[newer edit] Found that if you start a new game, and open the WS at USS it works without a hitch. IT WORKS FINE WITH SIM SETTLEMENTS!
After some time I am really having trouble with settlers navigating this settlement. I can't get any of them to go down to the mud under the north end of the bridge, I even made a secondary path over the water, but they won't step on it. Pretty much the only thing they do is hang out on the Riptide and the barge. As I type this I wonder it the problem is the actual size of the settlement is much smaller than the "you are leaving the settlement": warning would lead me to believe. I'd have thought it extended to the end of the north side of the bridge because if I go any farther I get kicked out of the settlement, but perhaps as far as settlers navigation it is smaller. Hmm, I may look at the mod in the CK. Perhaps it needs additional Navmeshing.
I went for a look under the hood, so to speak, in the Creation Kit, and the bridge is pretty thoroughly navmeshed. The mud flat under the north end of the bridge is also navmeshed. It's not perfect, however, but it should work.
Spoiler:
Show
To show this I want to share some rudimentary details about navmesh, for those who have not looked at them before: A navmesh must be present on a surface if an NPC needs to stand/wall/run on that surface. A navmesh is made up of triangles on a plane connected at their vertices. A navmesh is displayed in the creation kit as a translucent filled "film" over the surface. There are different kinds and colors, but that is not important here. Most are red. An NPC will stop at any hole in the navmesh and (if possible) try to go around it using surfaces that are navmeshed.
So, as I said the bridge is pretty well navmeshed, but there are holes. Some holes are normal due to hazards (like holes in the road) and obstructions (like large piles of garbage) you want the NPC to go around There is one hole on the north end of the bridge that seems to have no purpose:
The orange and red areas are the navmesh. It is actually not too uncommon to see what look like holes in navmesh that actually aren't. This is due to another rule of navmeshes- an npc will not walk in mid air, so you don't want the navmesh much higher than the surface itself as the npc will try and follow it and not be able too if it is. As such it is better to have a navmesh be slightly under a surface than above it. So when you see navmeshes on uneven ground it may look like there are holes at first. The reasons why the mesh might be forced to be too high are not important here. In this case, however, you can see that is not the case when you hide the bridge itself.
As you can see the holes are not as extensive as they seem when you can see the bridge, but are still sizeable. That said, there are navmeshes that go around that hole in the mesh, so NPC's should go around it.
Another set of potential problem areas are the concrete bridge supports. Interestingly the one by the mud flat is navmeshed, but the others aren't.
The one on the left is the last support on the north end of the bridge, the one on the right is, well, the next one. It has no red color on it, and thus no navmesh. All the rest are the same. This shouldn't be surprising since the only one that an NPC can get to in the vanilla game is the one in the mud, so why waste time adding navmesh to the others. For this mod, however, many users will want to use this space.
(note: this is not in any way meant to imply that the mod author made an incomplete mod. They are just things I learned.)
I am still not sure why my settlers can't get to the mud flat. The really weird thing- I have seen provisioners traveling down there with no problems. They go up and down the stairs I added. I have taken a companion to the mud flat, and they have no difficulties as long as they are my companion. I tried going down there with Curie, and once she was with me I dismissed her to the settlement, then immediately assigned her to some crops. It said she was assigned, but she promptly heads up the stair and hangs out near the center of the bridge. If she can travel back to the center of the bridge without problem, why not the other direction? I have seen minute men down there too. Gah!
The most obvious is for me to go in and build navmesh for all the areas that don't have it. Not sure if I have time while making my gameplay series (features this mod as my primary settler settlement), but occasionally my ADD will kick in and I just hyperfocus on a single problem- like explaining navmesh to a couple of people that did not ask for one, and that might very well know this already. Workshop surfaces should be navmeshed I think, so it seems like you should be able to lay down floors and get the settlers to walk on them.
1st: Excellent settlement! Endorsed. The lack of borders annoyed me at first, but once I established the north and south borders by placing railing (roughly the whole length of the bridge north, and the south border is a bout where the big hole is on the bridge. The east and west borders are irrelevant because they are so big you'll have a hard time using all of them on even the best PC.
2nd: This is not a criticism of the mod, this is a warning to users. I know there are going to be risks when using scraping mods but I have a specific area to be careful of. Last night when I'd been building and scrapping for about an hour without saving (survival) I decided to try open up the barge just a bit so I scrapped two of the cargo containers (first on the right as your board stacked) and immediately broke my previs. The area of Boston between the bridges directly parallel to the barge just disappeared from a straight-on angle. It comes back as soon as you step off barge, but you get a big nothing from any angle that would have been blocked by the shipping containers. I don't know if all the stuff on the barge is one big precombine, but if you test it save before you do. I didn't want to redo everything so I am going to work around it. The same thing can and will happen at any other settlement, I just happened to notice it immediately.
first of may i say i love the old movie reference to one of your other mods and the terry pratchett reference to another. i like this mod and wondered if it is possible to see it on consoles
Thank you! First I need to confess that I sometimes like to come up with funny (to me anyway) names for my MODs. After that confession I follow with a bit of a downer, or not necessarily, depending on you: I am not going to move my MODs to console, BUT I give permission to anyone who wants to do that to go on and make them console savvy. Just remember to credit me for original work!
38 comments
This is just a little bit immersion breaking ("Hey! Those raiders, in armour, have swum out to the Riptide, and are now attacking the settlement!").
However, it turn out the the extremely extended borders in neeher's All Settlements Extended very conveniently cover this exact area, which fixes the problem quite neatly.
The only thing I have left to kvetch about so far is the large pile of trash at the north end of the bridge. However, as I can put a guard tower over it, it's not a major issue.
Well done, and endorsed.
But I do have one question, where is the workshop?
Alternatively, to put stuff into it, just tranfer to a power armor station.
[edit] Never mind, I have found my answer. It doesn't work with normally Sim Settlements Rise of the Commonwealth Hangman's Valley, because of the disabling of the WS. Although, seems like Jaderiver found a temporary work around if you're somewhat tech savvy.
[newer edit] Found that if you start a new game, and open the WS at USS it works without a hitch. IT WORKS FINE WITH SIM SETTLEMENTS!
That said, your images show settlers on the mud.
To show this I want to share some rudimentary details about navmesh, for those who have not looked at them before:
A navmesh must be present on a surface if an NPC needs to stand/wall/run on that surface.
A navmesh is made up of triangles on a plane connected at their vertices.
A navmesh is displayed in the creation kit as a translucent filled "film" over the surface. There are different kinds and colors, but that is not important here. Most are red.
An NPC will stop at any hole in the navmesh and (if possible) try to go around it using surfaces that are navmeshed.
So, as I said the bridge is pretty well navmeshed, but there are holes. Some holes are normal due to hazards (like holes in the road) and obstructions (like large piles of garbage) you want the NPC to go around There is one hole on the north end of the bridge that seems to have no purpose:
The orange and red areas are the navmesh. It is actually not too uncommon to see what look like holes in navmesh that actually aren't. This is due to another rule of navmeshes- an npc will not walk in mid air, so you don't want the navmesh much higher than the surface itself as the npc will try and follow it and not be able too if it is. As such it is better to have a navmesh be slightly under a surface than above it. So when you see navmeshes on uneven ground it may look like there are holes at first. The reasons why the mesh might be forced to be too high are not important here. In this case, however, you can see that is not the case when you hide the bridge itself.
As you can see the holes are not as extensive as they seem when you can see the bridge, but are still sizeable. That said, there are navmeshes that go around that hole in the mesh, so NPC's should go around it.
Another set of potential problem areas are the concrete bridge supports. Interestingly the one by the mud flat is navmeshed, but the others aren't.
The one on the left is the last support on the north end of the bridge, the one on the right is, well, the next one. It has no red color on it, and thus no navmesh. All the rest are the same. This shouldn't be surprising since the only one that an NPC can get to in the vanilla game is the one in the mud, so why waste time adding navmesh to the others. For this mod, however, many users will want to use this space.
(note: this is not in any way meant to imply that the mod author made an incomplete mod. They are just things I learned.)
I am still not sure why my settlers can't get to the mud flat. The really weird thing- I have seen provisioners traveling down there with no problems. They go up and down the stairs I added. I have taken a companion to the mud flat, and they have no difficulties as long as they are my companion. I tried going down there with Curie, and once she was with me I dismissed her to the settlement, then immediately assigned her to some crops. It said she was assigned, but she promptly heads up the stair and hangs out near the center of the bridge. If she can travel back to the center of the bridge without problem, why not the other direction? I have seen minute men down there too. Gah!
The most obvious is for me to go in and build navmesh for all the areas that don't have it. Not sure if I have time while making my gameplay series (features this mod as my primary settler settlement), but occasionally my ADD will kick in and I just hyperfocus on a single problem- like explaining navmesh to a couple of people that did not ask for one, and that might very well know this already. Workshop surfaces should be navmeshed I think, so it seems like you should be able to lay down floors and get the settlers to walk on them.
2nd: This is not a criticism of the mod, this is a warning to users. I know there are going to be risks when using scraping mods but I have a specific area to be careful of. Last night when I'd been building and scrapping for about an hour without saving (survival) I decided to try open up the barge just a bit so I scrapped two of the cargo containers (first on the right as your board stacked) and immediately broke my previs. The area of Boston between the bridges directly parallel to the barge just disappeared from a straight-on angle. It comes back as soon as you step off barge, but you get a big nothing from any angle that would have been blocked by the shipping containers. I don't know if all the stuff on the barge is one big precombine, but if you test it save before you do. I didn't want to redo everything so I am going to work around it. The same thing can and will happen at any other settlement, I just happened to notice it immediately.
delete my thread, thanks
:)