Interesting. So basically the npcs and monsters getting static levels. But what level they spawn? Have you changed all one by one assuming what is their intended strenght?
All NPCs and monsters in Elex 2 have already their own level - which is overwritten when level scaling is enabled for them. I just disabled level scaling, so with this mod game is using levels chosen by developers of original game. I can't say though how much thought and verification they put into levels of NPCs and monster that have level scaling enabled, so some too high or too low levels wouldn't be surprising,
Hi! Why would you say in the description that the mod "can make the game harder"? I thought when all level scaling is turned off, the game would be same or easier.
It really depends. If level scaling can scale enemies level down, it can make game harder at times. For example, if enemy had much higher level than player, and that enemy had level scaling enabled, it's level was scaled down to player could beat it. Now, after installing mod, enemy will have it's default high level, meaning low level players will have hard time beating it.
I wasn't able to confirm if there are any issues like that, so I wrote "can make the game harder". I only confirmed it was working the other way around - made normal enemies normal again, they aren't having boss HP when player have high level.
I've unpacked new c_1_na.pak, only two sectors relevant to scaling were changed: IGN_Depot_NPCs.elex2sec (Radyk, Azok) TAV_Fort_NPCs.elex2sec (Striker, Fenris, Rat)
Can't say anyting about templates, as I have no backup of them before the patch. Sectors can cause some incompatibilities with new quest changes, but templates should be fine, as they contain mostly stats. Still they can affect some weapon mods. Recently changed templates:
Thanks for the info. I'm currently trying to update all my mods to newest version of Elex 2, but now I realized this mod should have highest priority because it overwrites so many sector files.
I was working on tool that would allow me (and other modders if they want) to speed up the process of updating/creating the mods, but it's so far from being done that it will be faster to remade all mods based on most recent version of the game.
Thanks very much for this mod. It's mind-boggling to me that PB - despite their many obvious flaws - of all "old-skool"-ish RPG devs has introduced this unholy dumpster fire plague of level scaling on the latest installment. The game - which I'm waiting to pick up on a deep discount - would be unplayable for me without this. Cheers.
I can't say game is unplayable because of it, it does affect only ~10% of spawned enemies I could find, so it doesn't affect most of the game, and I think it could work if they would fix it a little. Sure, some enemies can be respawned, and because of so many choices not all enemies can be spawned in one playthrough, so real world number can be a little different.
I thought respawn system is terrible and have no place PB games, or games where immersion matters, but PB proved me wrong. So I won't say now scaling system is bad, maybe it can be implemented in fitting way. It's implementation in Elex 2 is bad, that's for sure.
Many people bounced back on Elex because they were rushing through game and ended up fighting strong enemies with underleveled and underequipped character, so let's say they didn't had fun. I can see why would PB want to make game much accessible to such players by using level scaling enemies, but in the end they made it worse for everybody else. With small exception to mages, because magic in this game is OP, mages don't really care how many HP have enemies.
I think at the start of the game should be fine, player damage is increased at the start of the game very fast so even if you meet something too powerful for you to beat, in typical to PB fashion you can go back to it after few hours, when you are much stronger. Even without this mod I had to do it few many times in early game.
It's the majority of quest monsters, including mutants, robots, drones. Humans too, obviously. Most of quest givers and story npcs are also scaled. Some lone bandits in the world but not the wildlife, curiously. The link to the table I posted below can showcase the scale and almost all quest scripts or npc names are self-explanatory, more so if you finished the game.
You bet! The approach taken here was a bit different then my, I only edited sectors, because basically that's all you need to do to make it work. But you can always repackage the mod without templates. Actually I came here after Tiny Hatastrophe replied to my post on WoP forums. It's pure coincidence that we were working on the same thing and met there. It seems my efforts won't be needed anymore, someone's always faster then you.
I think game have kinda obvious places that were improvements can be done, so many people try to fix it by themselves, in their own way. We have like 3 separate mods working in a slightly different ways to achieve one goal - highlighting living things, machines and items at the same time, and I think it's fine. Who knows, maybe your approach is better, I did everything automatic, with only manual changes for companions, so probably there is a big room for improvements.
As I promised here's my compiled table with all scaled enemies. Rather crude, as initially I planned to include guids to identify npcs later, but then dropped the idea. Either way, it seems the balance is 99% tied to levels. There are fixed "basic stats" with each level. If we can trust the templates, that is. For myself I marked the sectors which I deem proper for a change as "Fixed". https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yk6CENjXROuYPFbBe-Bw1VdXfscXKkAH2rbJ6YlOV64/edit?usp=sharing This table can be used as a testing polygon of sorts if I ever fully embark on a challenging journey of fixing the balance for good.
19 comments
So basically the npcs and monsters getting static levels.
But what level they spawn? Have you changed all one by one assuming what is their intended strenght?
Why would you say in the description that the mod "can make the game harder"? I thought when all level scaling is turned off, the game would be same or easier.
I wasn't able to confirm if there are any issues like that, so I wrote "can make the game harder". I only confirmed it was working the other way around - made normal enemies normal again, they aren't having boss HP when player have high level.
I've unpacked new c_1_na.pak, only two sectors relevant to scaling were changed:
IGN_Depot_NPCs.elex2sec (Radyk, Azok)
TAV_Fort_NPCs.elex2sec (Striker, Fenris, Rat)
Can't say anyting about templates, as I have no backup of them before the patch. Sectors can cause some incompatibilities with new quest changes, but templates should be fine, as they contain mostly stats. Still they can affect some weapon mods.
Recently changed templates:
It_1h_Sword_Out_02_Damaged.elex2tpl
It_Recipe_Stim_Resistance.elex2tpl
Hector.elex2tpl
It_Pl_Trollroot_Marwin.elex2tpl
It_Crossbow_None_01_Damaged.elex2tpl
It_Crossbow_None_02_Damaged.elex2tpl
2H parry is now officially implemented!
I was working on tool that would allow me (and other modders if they want) to speed up the process of updating/creating the mods, but it's so far from being done that it will be faster to remade all mods based on most recent version of the game.
and I think it could work if they would fix it a little. Sure, some enemies can be respawned, and because of so many choices not all enemies can be spawned in one playthrough, so real world number can be a little different.
I thought respawn system is terrible and have no place PB games, or games where immersion matters, but PB proved me wrong. So I won't say now scaling system is bad, maybe it can be implemented in fitting way. It's implementation in Elex 2 is bad, that's for sure.
Many people bounced back on Elex because they were rushing through game and ended up fighting strong enemies with underleveled and underequipped character, so let's say they didn't had fun. I can see why would PB want to make game much accessible to such players by using level scaling enemies, but in the end they made it worse for everybody else. With small exception to mages, because magic in this game is OP, mages don't really care how many HP have enemies.
At what character level should we apply this mod? ASAP or does that block progression (since enemies no longer downscale)?
The link to the table I posted below can showcase the scale and almost all quest scripts or npc names are self-explanatory, more so if you finished the game.
The approach taken here was a bit different then my, I only edited sectors, because basically that's all you need to do to make it work. But you can always repackage the mod without templates.
Actually I came here after Tiny Hatastrophe replied to my post on WoP forums. It's pure coincidence that we were working on the same thing and met there.
It seems my efforts won't be needed anymore, someone's always faster then you.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yk6CENjXROuYPFbBe-Bw1VdXfscXKkAH2rbJ6YlOV64/edit?usp=sharing
This table can be used as a testing polygon of sorts if I ever fully embark on a challenging journey of fixing the balance for good.