Hey, everyone, my apologies for not being clear about this in the description and here (I had to take a long break): all the way back in U8.4, the developers of Blade and Sorcery asked me if they could incorporate this mod into the vanilla game, and I said yes. So you've been playing the U10 version all this time :D (EDIT: minus the weight changes, but the developers compensated for that by adding more active ragdoll, which is much more effective in conveying weight without breaking gameplay). Also, the ragdoll file that I used to edit is no longer in the game's directory, so I'm not sure I can even continue the mod since I can't code.
Thank you all so much for the endorsements and comments. I've currently been working on the ragdoll physics of another game, in case you're interested: Cyberpunk.
Not that I know of, not anymore. The ragdoll .JSON file is no longer available for editing. However, using a mod like Butter Stabs takes away the "stickiness" of blades (without affecting armor), so you don't pull NPCs around as floppily as you would without the mod. Might be worth a try. :)
As I see the ability to be knocked out by hitting different parts is also regulated via the ragdoll files.
What I'd love to do is make it possible for the enemies to be knocked down by sweeping their legs or hooking their legs with a dane axe. Sadly this is disabled since U8.
I think the bodyparts are numbered in these files, but I don't know which number is resembling which bodypart.
Could you help me with that? :)
Or would you consider enabling knockdown via strong leg hits in a future update? I really miss sweeping their legs and finishing them off :D
I wouldn't know how to do that and I'm swamped with real life work at the moment, but I can help you with the bone numbers, yes :) So bone 0 may be the pelvis bone, from which all the others "sprout". Bones 1 through 6 are the legs. 1 and 2 being the thighs, 3 and 4 the shins, 5 and 6 the feet. Then the other numbers deal with the bones above the pelvis. 7 is the stomach and 8 is the chest, then 9 is the neck and 10 is the head. Then 11 and 12 are the shoulders, 13 and 14 are the upper arms, 15 and 16 are the forearms, and 17 and 18 are the hands.
If, for example, you alter the flexibility of the forearms, you're actually adjusting the joint constraint at the elbow. If you adjust the flexibility of the hands, you're adjusting the joint constrants at the wrist. So if you want to know exactly which "bend point" you're working with, it's always the one that comes BEFORE the bone you're editing. Another example: adjusting the flexibility of the shins actually affects how much the knee can bend. Foot affects the ankle, etc. etc.
In case you want to tinker with flexibility, it's adjusted through these parameters on every bone:
I actually can't tell you for certain how each value affects each limb. I usually guess based on the original values and which limb I'm working with. When dealing with the shin, for instance, obviously the highest number relates to how much the knee can bend straight backwards. But it can be quite difficult to figure out the other values, depending on the limb. There was a lot of guesswork involved. Each version of the mod also alters other values, such as mass, position/rotation springs, stuff like that. Increasing mass requires increasing position/rotation springs proportionally, otherwise the NPC can't sustain their own weight and they go all wobbly.
If you want to check out all the parameters I change, just check out the ragdoll file in any of the mod versions (except version 04), because I only keep the parameters I need to use. This is done to ensure compatibility with other mods that change parameters in the same file, such as dismemberment mods. Version 04's ragdoll file is harder to read because I had to keep some extra parameters, otherwise it would break the mod. But it doesn't seem to have hurt compatibility. It's just harder to read, so if you want some helpful reference, ignore that version.
Speaking of which, if you're going to tinker with knockdown parameters, I don't recommend using any of my ragdoll files directly because they don't contain the parameters you're looking for. You're free to use the same values I'm using in my files, of course, but I think you'll need to transcribe them to the vanilla ragdoll file and work from there, so you'll have all the parameters at your disposal. I wish you luck with your experimentation :)
MANY thanks for the in depth description and so quick!
I just wanted to make them fall down if you sweep their legs but with your information I might be able to adjust their arms and hands a bit, with the goal to make them less stiff during animations (blended death animation version).
This way parrying without the recoil on parry might get a little easier, which is good with my PaceAI mod (it works pretty well, but sometimes the AI really seems a little overly strong) If I can get their arms to bend more when they hit something while not being unable to swing a weapon... that would be nice...
If I manage to do that I'll propably ask you for permission to include the ragdoll file in my mod^^ But let's see if I actually manage.
Oh, you're the author of PaceAI! Your mod is awesome! And yes, by all means, feel free to include the ragdoll file in your mod in any way you like :)
As I understand it, the ragdoll file has a global way of increasing position/rotation springs, and also a per-limb way. I use the global way (located at the top of the file) in all versions of the ragdoll overhaul except for version 04, because that version changes the weight proportions of the NPCs. So I had to tweak the multipliers on each limb to match the new proportions. Whichever version of the mod you prefer, there's always a way to tweak the arms specifically, not just their mass but also how "strong" they are. However, those per-limb parameters are multipliers based on the global variables, I believe, so it's important to double-check those as well.
There's also these values (which are not included in my ragdoll files, because I don't alter them):
I haven't really tinkered with them, but if I were you, I'd try setting them all to like, 0.1 and see how that affects the NPCs (assuming you haven't already tried that). I found out about the other spring values by doing precisely that, which hilariously turned the NPCs to jelly.
Unfortunately, the perfect version of the Ragdoll Overhaul is beyond my abilities. It would require programming (which I'm incapable of) in order to use the "knockout" ragdoll as the death ragdoll for about 2-3 seconds, at which point it would transition to completely limp ragdoll. This is how it works in games like Dying Light, Dishonored 2, etc. NPCs don't just go limp immediately, they still have some muscle tension (which prevents the ragdoll from going too wild) and they only settle down once they're already on the ground. The "Knockout" ragdoll in Blade and Sorcery is actually quite decent, but it's not used for deaths. Plus I would love to be able to have separate position/rotation springs for death animations only, so I could tweak them without affecting other animations.
Perhaps I'll suggest this to The Baron and Kospy, but I assume right now they're utterly busy with the character system overhaul and the performance issues.
Sooo I've tinkered with the values and "meleeArmMaxForceMultiplier": 2.0, does the job pretty well.
It doesn't screw up their attacks but it really makes their hits more deflectable.
However I can't seem to get your ragdoll file to work as soon as I include it. The game just seems to choose the default ragdoll file again because apparently... I broke your ragdoll file :D
I've been thinking about this last night and I think I don't want to make the people choose between my mod and your mod.
Would you consider making a kind of "PaceAI-Version", that includes just this additional value?
That would be amazing. This way my mod won't take away the downloads from your mod ;)
EDIT:
Or would it be possible to add a ragdoll file in my mod, that only includes this one line and would therefore just be an addition to your file and no replacement? Is that possible at all?
My mod actually does not conflict with the parameter you changed, so if you pick any version of my mod and you include it alongside yours (as in, your mod folder alongside my mod folder in StreamingAssets), my mod should overwrite only certain values. The one you changed would not be one of them, so there's no overlap and no conflict. What you asked about only including certain parameters is indeed how I do it. Any parameters that the game doesn't find in StreamingAssets defaults to the parameters in the vanilla fies. So, for instance, my ragdoll file does not include any of the dismemberment parameters. If the game does not find any dismemberment mods in StreamingAssets, it'll pick the dismemberment parameters from the vanilla ragdoll file. In U7 that wasn't possible, but now it is.
This is also how I do it in the Brains files. I only change exactly one parameter in each (to disable death animations), so it doesn't conflict with any of the larger changes you made to them (I actually tested my mod with your mod before publishing the U8 version of Ragdoll Overhaul). Check out those files in my mod if you want to see for yourself what that looks like.
However, in order for that to work, my mod has to come last in the load order. If your mod folder does not start with a "ZZZ", then my mod should already automatically come last because the game determines this alphabetically, as far as I know. The last mod in the load order has overwrite authority over all the other mods, which is why I clean up the parameters to avoid incompatibility issues.
So try this: place your mod folder (with the ragdoll file that contains your one change) in StreamingAssets, then download any version of my mod and also put the folder -- unaltered -- in StreamingAssets. See if everything works as intended. I recommend that, for this first test, you don't change your ragdoll file except for that one parameter. Keep all the other parameters, just so we know that the mods can work alongside each other without anything breaking.
If they do work together, then it's time to clean up your ragdoll file so that it only includes the parameter you're changing. Ideally the entire text file would look like this, and nothing else:
(don't copy the above directly, because Nexus has removed the spaces. You should copy those directly from ragdoll file to ragdoll file)
If that doesn't work, try removing that last comma (I think there isn't supposed to be a comma before a closing bracket). If even then it doesn't work, then the changes are too sweeping and it might be necessary to include a few more parameters so the game can read the file properly. Problem is, which parameters? I ran into that trouble myself, which is why the Weight Redistribution version includes more parameters than the others. I just tinkered with them until the damn thing worked.
In any case, even if you have to include more parameters, my mod will overwrite them, so you don't have to worry about overlap. The reason for cleaning up your ragdoll file is to avoid further conflicts with other mods.
I would have no problem at all with including a PaceAI patch, but my mod has too many versions so it would turn into a mess. If you can make it work from your end using the instructions above, it could be the best of both worlds, so I suggest we try that first :)
Hey there! I've made a video to showcase 1.7 (still being edited, should be published tomorrow or the day after), and at one point I sweep an NPC's leg with a sword (without drawing blood, so I probably hit them with the flat side or something and the game read that as a blunt weapon). I take it you mean using bare hands? I remember attempting that and it just seems to affect their whole body as if they've been hit in the torso, so they just fly away. But I haven't done in-depth tests. You may want to see if you can sweep their legs using a one-handed mace.
If so, it may be worth comparing the damagers for a mace and for the punch. I fixed the knockback issue and the sticky sword issue in the damagers for the blades. I took a quick look just now and there are a few differences between mace and punch. Specifically, "useDamageRangeForIntensity" is true for the punch and false for the mace, which I find suspicious. I wonder if that may relate to an area of effect. I also notice that a punch carries twice as much force as a mace (parameter is called "addForce"), and the type of force ("addForceState" and the parameter right below that one) is different also. There are a few other differences.
If I were you, I'd attempt to make the values on the punch similar to that of a weapon that can sweep the legs, assuming you haven't tried that already, and assuming there is such a weapon. I may be misremembering. Still, sounds to me like a damager issue on the punch. U8 really did change a lot of stuff; I don't think the parameters I tweaked for the knockback and stickiness were there before. It's good that they are, they're useful parameters to have, they were just too high for ragdolls and especially for their weight. My concern is that making the punch similar to the mace may cause problems for the punch when it's NOT used for sweeping legs, but well, it's worth a try.
The damagers are just as flexible as other .JSON files, so you can change strictly the parameters you need and include nothing else to keep it compatible with other mods that change the same files. Versions 02, 03 and 04 of the ragdoll overhaul 1.7 contain functional examples of that, in case that's useful as a reference. Good luck on that feature and let me know if something else comes up I may be able to help with. :)
I found out how to make the legs sweepable again. I need to alter the creature files, which I do in the newer Versions of my "Realistic Armor" mod.
Not only does it let you sweep the legs by brute force, but can also make them fall by receiving a cut to the leg.
I was also able to add this feature to other bodyparts as well. For example a non-deadly hit on the neck (like a punch for example) will knock them down or also a head injury.
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Thank you all so much for the endorsements and comments. I've currently been working on the ragdoll physics of another game, in case you're interested: Cyberpunk.
What I'd love to do is make it possible for the enemies to be knocked down by sweeping their legs or hooking their legs with a dane axe. Sadly this is disabled since U8.
I think the bodyparts are numbered in these files, but I don't know which number is resembling which bodypart.
Could you help me with that? :)
Or would you consider enabling knockdown via strong leg hits in a future update? I really miss sweeping their legs and finishing them off :D
If, for example, you alter the flexibility of the forearms, you're actually adjusting the joint constraint at the elbow. If you adjust the flexibility of the hands, you're adjusting the joint constrants at the wrist. So if you want to know exactly which "bend point" you're working with, it's always the one that comes BEFORE the bone you're editing. Another example: adjusting the flexibility of the shins actually affects how much the knee can bend. Foot affects the ankle, etc. etc.
In case you want to tinker with flexibility, it's adjusted through these parameters on every bone:
"lowTwistLimit":
"highTwistLimit":
"swing1Limit":
"swing2Limit":
I actually can't tell you for certain how each value affects each limb. I usually guess based on the original values and which limb I'm working with. When dealing with the shin, for instance, obviously the highest number relates to how much the knee can bend straight backwards. But it can be quite difficult to figure out the other values, depending on the limb. There was a lot of guesswork involved. Each version of the mod also alters other values, such as mass, position/rotation springs, stuff like that. Increasing mass requires increasing position/rotation springs proportionally, otherwise the NPC can't sustain their own weight and they go all wobbly.
If you want to check out all the parameters I change, just check out the ragdoll file in any of the mod versions (except version 04), because I only keep the parameters I need to use. This is done to ensure compatibility with other mods that change parameters in the same file, such as dismemberment mods. Version 04's ragdoll file is harder to read because I had to keep some extra parameters, otherwise it would break the mod. But it doesn't seem to have hurt compatibility. It's just harder to read, so if you want some helpful reference, ignore that version.
Speaking of which, if you're going to tinker with knockdown parameters, I don't recommend using any of my ragdoll files directly because they don't contain the parameters you're looking for. You're free to use the same values I'm using in my files, of course, but I think you'll need to transcribe them to the vanilla ragdoll file and work from there, so you'll have all the parameters at your disposal. I wish you luck with your experimentation :)
I just wanted to make them fall down if you sweep their legs but with your information I might be able to adjust their arms and hands a bit, with the goal to make them less stiff during animations (blended death animation version).
This way parrying without the recoil on parry might get a little easier, which is good with my PaceAI mod (it works pretty well, but sometimes the AI really seems a little overly strong) If I can get their arms to bend more when they hit something while not being unable to swing a weapon... that would be nice...
If I manage to do that I'll propably ask you for permission to include the ragdoll file in my mod^^ But let's see if I actually manage.
As I understand it, the ragdoll file has a global way of increasing position/rotation springs, and also a per-limb way. I use the global way (located at the top of the file) in all versions of the ragdoll overhaul except for version 04, because that version changes the weight proportions of the NPCs. So I had to tweak the multipliers on each limb to match the new proportions. Whichever version of the mod you prefer, there's always a way to tweak the arms specifically, not just their mass but also how "strong" they are. However, those per-limb parameters are multipliers based on the global variables, I believe, so it's important to double-check those as well.
There's also these values (which are not included in my ragdoll files, because I don't alter them):
"meleeArmSpringMultiplier": 2.0,
"meleeArmMaxForceMultiplier": 10.0,
"parryArmSpringMultiplier": 1.0,
"parryArmMaxForceMultiplier": 10.0,
I haven't really tinkered with them, but if I were you, I'd try setting them all to like, 0.1 and see how that affects the NPCs (assuming you haven't already tried that). I found out about the other spring values by doing precisely that, which hilariously turned the NPCs to jelly.
Unfortunately, the perfect version of the Ragdoll Overhaul is beyond my abilities. It would require programming (which I'm incapable of) in order to use the "knockout" ragdoll as the death ragdoll for about 2-3 seconds, at which point it would transition to completely limp ragdoll. This is how it works in games like Dying Light, Dishonored 2, etc. NPCs don't just go limp immediately, they still have some muscle tension (which prevents the ragdoll from going too wild) and they only settle down once they're already on the ground. The "Knockout" ragdoll in Blade and Sorcery is actually quite decent, but it's not used for deaths. Plus I would love to be able to have separate position/rotation springs for death animations only, so I could tweak them without affecting other animations.
Perhaps I'll suggest this to The Baron and Kospy, but I assume right now they're utterly busy with the character system overhaul and the performance issues.
I like your idea with the knockout ragdoll.
I'm sure Kospy and Baron will like your idea. Just tell them and they can decide when it's the time to work on that. :)
It doesn't screw up their attacks but it really makes their hits more deflectable.
However I can't seem to get your ragdoll file to work as soon as I include it. The game just seems to choose the default ragdoll file again because apparently... I broke your ragdoll file :D
I've been thinking about this last night and I think I don't want to make the people choose between my mod and your mod.
Would you consider making a kind of "PaceAI-Version", that includes just this additional value?
That would be amazing. This way my mod won't take away the downloads from your mod ;)
EDIT:
Or would it be possible to add a ragdoll file in my mod, that only includes this one line and would therefore just be an addition to your file and no replacement? Is that possible at all?
This is also how I do it in the Brains files. I only change exactly one parameter in each (to disable death animations), so it doesn't conflict with any of the larger changes you made to them (I actually tested my mod with your mod before publishing the U8 version of Ragdoll Overhaul). Check out those files in my mod if you want to see for yourself what that looks like.
However, in order for that to work, my mod has to come last in the load order. If your mod folder does not start with a "ZZZ", then my mod should already automatically come last because the game determines this alphabetically, as far as I know. The last mod in the load order has overwrite authority over all the other mods, which is why I clean up the parameters to avoid incompatibility issues.
So try this: place your mod folder (with the ragdoll file that contains your one change) in StreamingAssets, then download any version of my mod and also put the folder -- unaltered -- in StreamingAssets. See if everything works as intended. I recommend that, for this first test, you don't change your ragdoll file except for that one parameter. Keep all the other parameters, just so we know that the mods can work alongside each other without anything breaking.
If they do work together, then it's time to clean up your ragdoll file so that it only includes the parameter you're changing. Ideally the entire text file would look like this, and nothing else:
{
"$type": "ThunderRoad.RagdollData, Assembly-CSharp",
"id": "Human",
"version": 2,
"exludeFromBuild": false,
"pooledCount": 21,
"meleeArmMaxForceMultiplier": 2.0,
}
(don't copy the above directly, because Nexus has removed the spaces. You should copy those directly from ragdoll file to ragdoll file)
If that doesn't work, try removing that last comma (I think there isn't supposed to be a comma before a closing bracket). If even then it doesn't work, then the changes are too sweeping and it might be necessary to include a few more parameters so the game can read the file properly. Problem is, which parameters? I ran into that trouble myself, which is why the Weight Redistribution version includes more parameters than the others. I just tinkered with them until the damn thing worked.
In any case, even if you have to include more parameters, my mod will overwrite them, so you don't have to worry about overlap. The reason for cleaning up your ragdoll file is to avoid further conflicts with other mods.
I would have no problem at all with including a PaceAI patch, but my mod has too many versions so it would turn into a mess. If you can make it work from your end using the instructions above, it could be the best of both worlds, so I suggest we try that first :)
I'll be out of the house for the weekend, but maybe on sunday I might be able to try this out :)
Have a nice weekend! :)
I'm creating a ragdoll file that only edits these values and the values for making it possible to sweep their legs to make them fall down.
This way people can use both of our mods perfectly :)
I can't seem to find out how to make them fall if you sweep their legs... It's a shame. I don't really get why they disabled that with U8.
If so, it may be worth comparing the damagers for a mace and for the punch. I fixed the knockback issue and the sticky sword issue in the damagers for the blades. I took a quick look just now and there are a few differences between mace and punch. Specifically, "useDamageRangeForIntensity" is true for the punch and false for the mace, which I find suspicious. I wonder if that may relate to an area of effect. I also notice that a punch carries twice as much force as a mace (parameter is called "addForce"), and the type of force ("addForceState" and the parameter right below that one) is different also. There are a few other differences.
If I were you, I'd attempt to make the values on the punch similar to that of a weapon that can sweep the legs, assuming you haven't tried that already, and assuming there is such a weapon. I may be misremembering. Still, sounds to me like a damager issue on the punch. U8 really did change a lot of stuff; I don't think the parameters I tweaked for the knockback and stickiness were there before. It's good that they are, they're useful parameters to have, they were just too high for ragdolls and especially for their weight. My concern is that making the punch similar to the mace may cause problems for the punch when it's NOT used for sweeping legs, but well, it's worth a try.
The damagers are just as flexible as other .JSON files, so you can change strictly the parameters you need and include nothing else to keep it compatible with other mods that change the same files. Versions 02, 03 and 04 of the ragdoll overhaul 1.7 contain functional examples of that, in case that's useful as a reference. Good luck on that feature and let me know if something else comes up I may be able to help with. :)
I found out how to make the legs sweepable again. I need to alter the creature files, which I do in the newer Versions of my "Realistic Armor" mod.
Not only does it let you sweep the legs by brute force, but can also make them fall by receiving a cut to the leg.
I was also able to add this feature to other bodyparts as well. For example a non-deadly hit on the neck (like a punch for example) will knock them down or also a head injury.