Hey, I like this mod. So much so that LillyBird and I included it in Listonomicon. "Listo" is a Wabbajack-powered mod list, that works almost identically to Nexus Collections but uses a community alternative to Vortex to help users download mods from Nexus, put them in the correct order, and prepare their game to play. No mods are repacked, stolen, or distributed directly - users are still directed here, just like with Collections, to download from your Nexus page and ensure you are given the proper download credit.
Due to confusion over what Wabbajack is and what it does, users at the Down By The River community encouraged me to give a courtesy "heads up" to the authors whose work is included in Listonomicon. And to assure them that per Listonomicon's install instructions, users are explicitly told to direct their bug reports issues to us first as mod authors (like you) don't want to deal with being inundated with help requests or bug reports from users with 300+ active mods.
You can read a little more about our project on Github, though the preferred way to access Listonomicon is via the Wabbajack gallery. A list of all included mods are here. A synopsis of the philosophy of Listo and what we are trying to accomplish (and avoid) can be found in our Whitepaper on the first two pages, and is elaborated starting page 17 "List Philosophy."
If you have any concern about your mod being included in Listonomicon (which is still downloaded from this page, and credits you as the author), please send me a message via Nexus's PM mail. I'm not sure how to get notifications if someone has replied to a comment.
Why change that your character is reaveled when attacking while being greatly invisible? Now it's even worse than vanilia when you can remain invisible if you pass stealth check. After new change it's only viable if you can hide as bonus action.
Which is exactly why I made the change, lol. I could probably give you an initial hide check for free, but I see no reason to step on the toes of rogues. If you want to be better at hiding, you can always dip. Or stick to the old version and have broken Greater Invis (the change to when NPC detect falls off was mostly to facilitate the change to GInvis anyway, so no real loss there).
Is there no way to have the enemies roll a Perception check when you make an attack or similar, and to make you invisible again at the beginning of your next turn? Fully exposing yourself to everyone without fail on any move would make me not want to take Greater Invis at the opportunity cost of another spell or action I could do, as it would force you to waste a turn to make it effective (2 if you count the turn to initially cast it), and waste a 4th level slot on it.
I'm confused. At no point do you lose the benefits of Greater Invisibility unless you lose concentration. You still have advantage on attacks against enemies who can't see you and enemies still have disadvantage if they can't see you (though I do need to stop counting the standard NPC detect as real See Invisibility). RAW, invisibility doesn't actually conceal your location from enemies. Hiding does that. Now, if you pick a fight, you have to hide your location again. RAW, enemies should know where you are unless you hide, invisible or not.
Greater Invisibility isn't useless now, it's just not a free pass to not get attacked at all for 10 rounds anymore.
Hmm...I didn't think @porma2 was suggesting they lost the benefits of Greater Invisibility; just that there should be a check of some kind to determine exposure. Though, after re-reading their comment....
Is there no way to have the enemies roll a Perception check when you make an attack or similar, and to make you invisible again at the beginning of your next turn?
That may have been the implication. (perhaps unintentionally?) Whatever the case, the update is still a welcome improvement.
Fully exposing yourself to everyone without fail on any move
Realistically, any of the things you do that break invisibility are things that also draw obvious attention. So there should be no perception check required to notice them. The responsibility is on the party that caused the commotion to hide themselves. That's why rogues get to hide as a bonus action. So if anything, I would have the invisible character make a stealth check to hide (which I essentially did), but Hide is an action unless you're a rogue (or shadow monk in BG3) or you have Haste, and I see no reason to render those things less useful when Greater Invisibility still provides tremendous benefit imo.
Purely from a game balance perspective, I'm inclined to agree with you. And as things stand, I think the mod is more or less (I'm sure you'll find something) perfect as is. So this certainly isn't a hill I'm willing to die on. lol
that depends on how they added a see invisibility effect. if it's referencing the base game's SEE_INVISIBILITY_REVEAL status and doesn't change the important lines on that, yes.
Yes. But it's not just him. Other sources of "see invisibility" have the same issue. I assume it's my modlist. Invisible creatures used to appear ghostly, and I'd still have disadvantage.
If it happens with the base See Invisibility spell, then it's your mod list. Otherwise, it occurred to me that the mod does check for specific detection statuses/passives to negate the invisibility disadvantage. I think if the custom See Invisibility status is in the "SEE_INVISIBILITY" stack, it should work. Otherwise, I have to add custom detection abilities individually.
Is there a way to trigger a perception check vs the caster's Spell Save DC whenever a Greater Invisibility user makes an attack or casts a spell? If the perception check is successful, they can target the Greater Invisibility user for their next turn, but still have disadvantage.
It feels like a good compromise so that Greater Invisibility isn't broken.
I had forgotten why this was a problem, but I remember now. I have some ideas for how to get the enemies to start looking for you, but it might be a little bit.
Unfortunately, I haven't figured that one out yet. I noticed invisible enemies still trigger their opportunity attacks but never take them. It's vanilla behavior I think might be hard coded into the status type and I haven't experimented with changing it to see what else that could break.
Well in 5e enemies have disadvantage on attacks against someone with Greater Invisibility once they are not actively hiding. With this mod you are basically untargetable if enemies can't see invisibility, so you can just wail on them for 10 turns
came looking for a mod that removed the constant rolling for see invisibility after volos operation, does that exist? edit - this mods seems to have done it
Yeah, this removes the rolls and just allows you to see invisible creatures when they're in range. They're still invisible, but they don't benefit against anyone that has a detection effect.
I think this causes companions and pets in your own party to be revealed if they use the invisibility spell requiring concentration. The quazit can no longer concentrate on invisibility if nearby. Invisibility potions seem to work fine though.
Hi. No it is the Shovel quasit summon through a wizard, but I believe that the invisibility spell cast on companions that requires concentration produces the same result where if you have see invisibility up it causes the companion concentrating on it (to keep another companion invisible) to lose concentration and cancel the spell.
Well, it looks like I forgot to put the ally check back in after testing since it's affecting allies at all, but it shouldn't break concentration either way, so I'll look into that.
Okay, so I'm unable to reproduce the problem with the normal invisibility spell cast by Gale, and, while I haven't actually played the game enough to have access to Shovel, as far as I can tell Quasit invisibility uses the same status as the wizard spell, so I'm not sure what would be causing your issue. What other mods are you running?
41 comments
Due to confusion over what Wabbajack is and what it does, users at the Down By The River community encouraged me to give a courtesy "heads up" to the authors whose work is included in Listonomicon. And to assure them that per Listonomicon's install instructions, users are explicitly told to direct their bug reports issues to us first as mod authors (like you) don't want to deal with being inundated with help requests or bug reports from users with 300+ active mods.
You can read a little more about our project on Github, though the preferred way to access Listonomicon is via the Wabbajack gallery. A list of all included mods are here. A synopsis of the philosophy of Listo and what we are trying to accomplish (and avoid) can be found in our Whitepaper on the first two pages, and is elaborated starting page 17 "List Philosophy."
If you have any concern about your mod being included in Listonomicon (which is still downloaded from this page, and credits you as the author), please send me a message via Nexus's PM mail. I'm not sure how to get notifications if someone has replied to a comment.
Greater Invisibility isn't useless now, it's just not a free pass to not get attacked at all for 10 rounds anymore.
Thanks for taking the time to revisit this mod and balance things out a bit.
BTW, even though I can see an invisible creature, I still get disadvantage on attacks.
And, yeah, only the character that actually has the ability to see the invisible creature doesn't suffer from disadvantage and whatnot.
It feels like a good compromise so that Greater Invisibility isn't broken.
With this mod you are basically untargetable if enemies can't see invisibility, so you can just wail on them for 10 turns
edit - this mods seems to have done it