It should be safe to install, update and uninstall the mod - just make sure to respec your druid(s) to level 1 beforehand.
Install with BG3MM as usual, and make sure Mod Fixer is installed - or stuff WILL break, as with all the mods.
- The mod is not compatible with any mods that affect druid's WS progression/mechanics. Even if they were technically compatible, they are not designed/balanced to be used together. The stuff will either break or won't be properly balanced - use them together at you own risk. - At some point I'll make patches or will make use of Script Extender to make it more compatible with custom subclasses. - If you have any issues, you can file a report in the bugs section. - In case you experience issues such as missing features or forms, make sure to clean up after the previously installed mods, or make a full clean reinstall of the game. Some mods leave loose files - these files are not visible by any BG3 Mod Manager, and may cause issues. Or it can be caused by the game itself, after major patches - that's why it's recommended to make a full clean reinstall of the game, after such updates (of course, you can keep your current mods and saves). - We still have some forms and abilities that would like to have their own unique icons - if you have any experience with that, and interested in landing a hand - please contact me, so we can work on it. - If you have experience in working with models, and interested in making new custom forms in the future - contact me, as well. - As of now, we are limited to using the existing models which we already have in the game. - The mod is still in development, with a lot of features in the works and in the plans. If you have a request or ideas for new features, quality of life, forms or abilities, feel free to leave suggestions/feedback in the comments. - And of course, you can support me with some coffee here. If you do so, thank you very much.
Coming next / future plans (no promises here, of course, as plans may change) - AC scaling for WS. - More class actions/abilities usable in WS - with proper animations. Such as Fighter's combat maneuvers, Monk's Stunning Strike, and a better implementation for Diving Strike and Tiger's Bloodlust. - I"m considering addressing a proper balance and DPR for WS - make it more consistent with other classes and 5e design: - remove (Larian's homebrew) additional damage scaling in WS - remove (Larian's homebrew) second Extra Attack in WS at level 10 - move Extra Attack in WS from level 5 to level 6, consistent with other full spellcaster classes that get an additional attack at level 6 (e.g. Swords/Valour Bard) - All of this is, of course, a heavy nerf (to a homebrewed Larian's version of a druid), but I think it's more consistent, fair and healthy for the game overall - and can be compensated by other features - it opens up more room for improvements on other areas, such as better abilities, forms and gearing for WS. It won't be done without that, to counter-balance it. It should also be considered that druid is a full spellcaster class, so it's already pretty strong, and shouldn't be as strong in melee as a full martial class, such as Fighter - the only class in the game that gets a second Extra Attack as their main feature. It would also make multiclassing much better - as of right now, it may not be worth giving up additional damage scaling and a second extra attack, even for Barbarian - which otherwise is a very popular and strong multiclass for Moon Druids in 5e. - Updates for current forms, and their abilities. I won't list everything here, but I want to: do another pass for all the spider forms and their abilities; make a proper 5e web ability for spiders, a new ability for Saber Tiger, a new ability for bears, rework boar's charge, etc etc. - Update Giant Badger form: add proper scaling, rework burrow/unfurrow ability, make a new rage ability. - Update Bulette form: make a Burrow/Unburrow abilities, add Blindsense as immunity to being blinded (per 5e). - It will also make Bulette work in darkness teams. - Fix Saber Tiger's atrocious hitbox, so it's easier to target enemies (and not yourself). - Make a new dinosaur form - that's focused on bleeds. - Add a Displacer Beast as a WS form. I initially wanted to make it as an improvement for a Panther form, for higher level moon druids - but Displacer Beast doesn't have the animations for abilities like Pounce and Ambush to work. And I also don't like the illithid themed version of this form, it doesn't fit druids (and doesn't make sense anyway). So I'll make an appropriate rework that will be more faithful to 5e and will be in theme of a beast itself. - (At some point) make a pass for all the elemental forms and their abilities. - (At some point) I'm considering making a full scaling for all the WS forms. So they won't just scale in HP, but will also scale in stats, according to CR of that druid level. This will also make a slight difference between moon and non-moon druids, as they progress CR at a different pace. - This is how it should've been done in 5e to begin with, if not for the amount of different possible forms. With a limited amount of forms that we have in this game, it should be possible to make it, but still will take A LOT of work. - Add alternative colors for current forms. - Add more critter forms, such as: blue jay, badger (not a giant one), and more. - Add more alternative colors for current forms. - New icons, updated descriptions, fixes, general polish as usual. - (At some point) Make a separate mod, for better equipment/gearing for WS.
I'm also currently working on rewriting the description, with all the changes, better structure, all the details and explanations.
Tell me what you think about all this, if you have any ideas/suggestions, and I may even add it to the list.
v.0.6.1 update is out - the list of changes is at the top of the description. As has been promised, this update is mostly fixes and technical stuff - along with multiclass support. If I missed anything and you spot any issues, please file a bug report in the bugs section.
Now that most of the technical stuff is out of the way, I can focus on the more interesting things again - new features, forms, abilities and updates for existing ones.
If you know how to unpack and repack it back, then you can edit it, yes. Though I'm probably going to change it myself for the next update. Or I'll change the basic jump ability, so it has the same range, and can be used to anywhere.
It's in Spell_Projectile.txt - look for the entry "WSO_Projectile_Jump_Owlbear_Wildshape_Lunge", and change the line
data "TargetConditions" "Character() and not Self()"
to
data "TargetConditions" "not Self() and not Ally() and not Dead()"
About moon druid, did you see what their did on last playtest on dnd one? i played a moon druid and it felt a lot more strong, of course the main problem with balance in this game is the attunement, we should really be able to use 3 magical itens.
Yeah, the balance is "fucked" either way, with how magical items work in this game. As for dnd one - I'm keeping an eye on the changes they make, and will see what would be nice to incorporate here.
As a long time DM I'll throw my two cents into the ring.
I am going to have to play around with the changes that you made a bit more to get a feel for the current level of Moon druid, admittedly as I've only dabbled with it for a few hours, So my experience comes from BG3/5E experiences in general. I'm going to try to make this succinct to not word wall you as best I can.
Main point of this post: Pushing WS Extra attack back, and removing the second one at 10 is fairly crippling.
Druids are full casters, sure, but Moon druids certainly take a hit to this in Lieu of specializing in WS. I think I understand your logic with trying to balance them to full casters but I believe you might be focusing on only one aspect and not taking into account several others.
WS at level 6 to match bard seems good in theory but bards still have their full kit at all times while being able to attack twice. WS locks you to not using your spells anymore and don't have nearly any of the utility a bard has. while bards still retain a high AC, and access to all of their equipment and feats.
[Fighters get the support of every feat, tons of armor and self buffing abilities] For instance my level 8 Fighter has 21AC at 76HP and Swings for 2D6+16 +2D4Fire Twice for 20-36 Damage a Swing Twice rerolling her damage twice and taking the higher amount on 18-20 Critical Strike Range. Can't be crit and DR5 vs Non Magial. This is all without any exterior buffs, oils, or elixirs. Fighters are not in any danger of being surpassed by any WS in any stretch of the imagination. Blow for blow, that fighter is going to out tank multiple creatures at once If we use Hunters mark from the Helm and a ring we get an additional 1D6 + 1D4 Psychic
^ This isn't even taking into account tadpole powers either.
Owlbear by comparison is 13 AC at 64hp, 20 Crit range, and is 4x hitbox size = huge easily hit hp sponge. No DR. Swings for 2D8+8 twice.
Its equipment gives..nothing. Aside from the Ring that gives 1D4 bonus to attack. Tadpole powers? Nope.
Only feat that helps it is TB which is pretty much mandatory.
The fact that any monster rolling higher than a 5 will hit the owlbear makes it just a liability that needs to be chain healed to stay alive or reshift into WS to heal which is one of the biggest and only major advantages it has.
If you also remove Larians bonus damage scaling to the attacks, its now doing half the damage of a fighter, and by level 10 becomes obsolete almost entirely as fighters now deal more than three times the damage as a fighter while also giving disadvantage to everyone that tries to hit it, at that point.
This leaves a Moon Druid being a mediocre full caster and mediocre HP sponge for the most part not being good at either. The druid being vastly tankier out of its forms than in it.
My Bard and Warlock can face tank leagues better without any restrictions, can cast all their spells at greater damage boasting nearly the same AC as the fighter, getting hit less and having so much more utility without the action economy penalty.
We're not even going to talk about the Cleric who boasts 26+ AC and is a walking fortress killing most creatures around it by simply walking next to them and existing. If anyone needs a nerf its not Wildshape druid in my most humble opinion. =)
Yeah I see what you talking about. I've been considering all the same points myself - mainly, that you lose all the other abilities and utility, while in WS. So if you resort to fighting in melee, then you should at least be decent at it. That's why I have not made these changes yet. And I like to see some feedback on these points, this is appreciated.
So I see how it would've been fair (to have 2 extra attacks and damage scaling), but on the other hand - what if this change (nerf) was done together with a full WS scaling - meaning that same forms would've had up to par AC and stats for their level - then they wouldn't be as crippled. Of course, the point remains that without proper gearing for WS, they still won't be able to stand up to fighters and other martials - but what if that's also addressed?
I still think it's a much better design if WS didn't had two extra attacks like fighters do - and didn't rely on this as a "fix" for a poorly made class without scaling in WS, and without proper gearing for it.
This won't be done until these issues are addressed first, rest assured. Tell me what you think of that. Don't be afraid to "word wall" me, if anything we can move to discord or some such, if we really need to have a proper conversation. I'm always open for that.
I'll also add that Owlbear, as an example, is one of the strongest forms, and isn't that much worse than other martials, due to their homebrew abilities that larian gave them - even after I've fixed them (I genuinely don't know if they even fixed them yet in vanilla, lol). It's really strong.
As I said, it opens up more room for improvements in other areas, such as this - better abilities in WS forms, coupled with stat scaling and proper WS gearing. It's a much better (and more interesting) design than just "two extra attacks and damage bonus" is. But it takes much, much more work, of course.
And I still retain the opinion that features like this, which are given by default, shouldn't be comparable to minmaxed builds.
I'll be honest Owlbear as the strongest, holds no candle to my level 8 fighter. I mentioned earlier that my Fighter can hit upwards of almost 40, that isn't even including fighter skills, with oils, elixirs, abilities and even hunters mark bouncing off the concentration ring I'm hitting for up to 50~ and critting for 100, which thanks to high crit range, and tadpole powers is easy to do.
Even more important, I'm immune to crits, have DR5, which makes my Effective HP much higher, triple crit range, and over 20AC, with resists to several damage sources and advantages to saving throws. not even taking account I can use my reaction to counter attack as a Battle Master increasing DPS and action economy further.
By ACT 3, it gets worse, as my fighter will have perm freedom of movement, movement speed boosts, resist to all sources of damage, an extra reaction, advantage on all spell saving throws, dex throws, con saves etc. Equipment is that much of a game changer for Martials in BG3 and why they stand far above Casters as opposed to 5E.
Main issue in BG3 is that it isn't 5E in the spirit of Equipment. BG3 has no attunement slots so, it throws the entire balance of 5E out the window and flips the balance of Martial vs Caster. Top DPS classes in the game are Fighter/Barbarian/Paladin. At end game doing 250-500 damage a round and that isn't even using niche cheese builds.
5E give you 3 magic items to equip. BG3 gives you up to 11 to work with that largely benefit Martials.
WS has no equipment support outside of two items, one of which you get at the last 20% of the game. Little Feat support Zero Tadpole Support No Oil/Item Support A Damage typing that has 0 support for WS. (Natural Attacks) As discussed eliminates almost all druid full caster aspects.
Making equipment support WS goes against every iteration of WS and the nature of it outside a few niche magic items, so that's not ideally a good solutoin imo.
Wildshape in 3.5 and Pathfinder allowed druids to cast spells while in it either as a Feat, or Subclass feature at around level 5. This has been done in other mods and largely brings back the druids functionality so that's a possible fix (5E being the checkers to the Chess game that is Dungeons and Dragons over simplified many classes as we know. Druids gaining the hardest nerfs having their animal companion taken away and given to Rangers, their WS nerfed into the ground, and iconic main damaging spells like Flame Strike taken away as well and given to Clerics. Even iconic features like poison and difficult terrain immunity has been stripped)
Moon Druid stats can also take 8's in STR/DEX/CON without suffering much at all, while at the same time, their WIS/INT/CHA does nothing to directly support WS outside of minor saving throws making their stat choices almost negligible.
Solution? Make WIS to add to AC and Damage in WS and make it Native to only Moon Druid. Simple and Clean and It gives MD a unique and worthwhile support to specialize in WS without having to fine tune every form and break the spirit of the class. Even at 20 WIS The owlbear gets an 18 AC which is average for a level 5 tank and hardly game breaking. 20 WIS isn't even as "easy" to get since no equipment boosts WIS natively making you rely on ASI and things like Hags hair. At the very least it makes WIS functional and gives it a purpose.
Moon Druids can't even buff themselves with their own spells making them completely reliant on other classes far more than Martials.
Larian didn't give bonus damage to WS by accident, they did it to make them even remotely viable because even at their best, they will come up average to even a poorly geared Pure Martial and with Druids giving up everything in WS to BE a martial, you are wholly right with them having to compete because they will never compare to aLand/Spore Druid , so they NEED to be at least comparable to Martials to be worth their party slot.
Even an Abjuration wizard can face tank better than a Moon Druid in BG3, while still providing Haste, Fireballs, Counterspells, Wards and countless other utility at the same time.
I know everything you're describing about 5e vs 3.5e and Pathfinder. I've played those as a druid. Those systems also have their own issues and limitations.
Animal Companion wasn't a great thing for a druid, as well as their spontaneous summoning, as it took away even more of their power and spread it between their summons and pets. Overall, with all of that they were strong and versatile, sure - but their own spellcasting and WS wasn't great.
You mention some mods bringing the capability of spellcasting in WS - I haven't seen any such mods, and knowing the technicalities of it in the code, I'm not sure if it would be even possible - and if so, very complicated to do.
The way it works in 5e, is that druids rely on Concentration spells with recasting, such as Call Lightning, Moon Beam, etc - and then recast them while in WS. This was one of the first things we fixed with this mod.
Currently, druids are not that bad in BG3, as they have summons that have their own Concentration spells - while druids can focus on their own, and stack them together, while also being pretty great in melee, and providing some nice buffs in their spell list along the way. They are in no way, shape or form as bad as people think. You still can do a lot, but of course you're right about the disparity between martials and casters due to gearing.
About gearing - what I meant is not giving druids the ability to use any gear in WS. I meant making and giving druids more magic items that would specifically work in WS, and would be themed around that as well. There's just not enough of such items in the game right now, and I don't consider it going against any iteration of WS "and the nature of it" - that's where we would have to disagree.
Little feat support is true, but honestly as a druid you would just take feats for better Concentration saves, and then max out Wisdom, as usual. Concentration spells are still the main part of your kit while in WS, that's how it plays in 5e.
No tadpole support sucks, of course - we will see what can be done about that. I would like to fix it. Even then, I imagine as a druid most of the players would play clean of tadpoles, as for the theme. Then it would be no different to any other "clean" run.
I agree that making Wisdom play more of a factor in WS is a good thing, since that's the main thing druids build around, as there are no feats for WS specifically. However, you overlook that all the WS abilities with DC saves use druid's spellcasting DC, meaning it's scaling off of Wisdom, and it's not set in stone as it is in WS templates in 5e.
We also have A LOT of such abilities in WS, and a lot of them are not even limited 'per short rest' or 'per fight', which is insane in some cases. As an Owlbear you can spam pounce attack - flight through the whole field and do AOE PRONE without any limitations, and then you also have an aoe damage ability that you can spam; Dire Wolf has an ability to single target prone enemies every turn, same as Panther and Saber Tiger; and etc.
Just the ability to choose from any of those abilities is huge by itself, not to mention that elemental forms are pretty powerful as well. You're talking about a level 8 fighter, well then compare level 10 fighter to level 10 druid, with all the elemental forms, and now also with this mod Bulette and other forms. It's not a slouch, and honestly at this point the game becomes a cake walk anyway.
And in the end, I want to say, if you want WS to be comparable to full martials, then why would you ever play a Fighter then? If WS does the same damage and has the same survivability, etc etc - and then out of WS you also have all the druid's spells, summons and buffs for the party. What's the point of playing martial characters, then?
It should be "decent" in melee - yeah, I agree. But "being able to compete" and "being comparable to martials" - well, that can quickly become too good, too fast.
I don't agree that they are not "viable" without some extra bonus damage. I don't agree that Moon Druids give up everything in WS to be martials, as you said. You still have your Concentration spells, summons, and the ability to change forms as you need.
I should clarify, with the "Nature of WS". I don't believe any and all equipment should be viable in WS. The pieces that specifically work with WS are in line with what has been the ongoing theme is all I really meant. It would be nice to see more magic pieces that support it for sure. But there are a few mods that have opened up equipment in general which does actually verily overpower Wildshape with certain combinations. Apologies for not being clearer.
The Feat support I agree with, there aren't many options, but in BG3 The feat of course do more for melee power scaling, allowing rolling damage dice twice, adding 10 flat damage, and such which snowballs rather well combined with other options. I wouldn't add feats myself either. I'm just pointing out why Melee is king in BG3 as opposed to tabletops where I think anyone instinct would be to pat the martials on the head and feel sorry for them past level 5 as is normal.
I agree with the Tadpole assertion as well, thematically a druid would stay clear in most cases, save for a few niche circles not in BG. Just another power factor though like feats that bump martials up though.
This mod definitely puts WS in line closer with Martials and I think they are definitely in a good place. The whole point of the thread really was a breakdown of where WS is at, Versus Melee. Its still under a Martial damage wise which is absolutely fine because of the abilities, but not too terribly so. The only glaring thing is the Horrendous AC being a burden for a large part of the game.
As far as the Mod for WS form to be able to continue to cast, It was released and quickly broke after patch (2?) and the modder said the changes they made in patch, he wasn't sure how to fix and it died. I don't have the mod anymore to check sadly. From memory, and I could be wrong it was changing the identifier of Wildshape to act like Disguise self so it wouldn't lock out casting. It was a pretty dirty and time consuming work around from what I understand but the details elude me.
MD's competing with Martials who can become too good too fast is of course a little unreasonable. I'm just looking to try to maintain a certain threshold on either side, of "why play x when y does z much better scenarios".
This whole exchange while wordy was mostly geared towards your comments with removing 3rd attack, removing the bonus and pushing WS 2nd back, although I may have fell down the rabbit hole with trying to outline the many facets of what goes into trying to maintain the "balance" of being a martial here.
Spent much of the last two days running Druid/Barb/Fighter/Monk as my testing to see exactly where they sit in the game.
(This testing does assume we are not taking the ritual WS method, while although I wholehearted believe two charges of WS is completely bonkers and very limiting to the form (The most limiting version of WS in tabletop, compared to previous editions, including pathfinder) I'm not sure how I feel about at will, out of combat use. just yet. So I left it wayside for now.)
[Right now WS has about 2/3rds the damage of a Barbarian/Fighter/Monk on average with Bullete and Elemental being about 4/5th the damage, but also taking up both slots of wild shape to do it.] Employing summons does even the board fairly well. I personally don't normally use summons myself but their use is rather valuable in bridging the gap if you enjoy that playstyle. I suppose your wording of taking away a 3rd attack just because its a fighter exclusive may have sparked much of this entirely when I think about it.
Mainly, with the Damage bonus and 3rd Attack WS doesn't even begin to encroach on what martials can do, even if we added Wis to Damage, it wouldn't surpass a well built martial which I moderately used to exemplify that point. So with that said, removing them felt a red flag for bringing WS too low in the damage category. Wis to Damage isn't necessary, just an afterthought.
Survivability though, is a harsh thing as we beat that horse before in prior messages. The health of WS is very nice, and comfortable, but The AC is unforgiving and the Wis to AC would play two fold at what we discussed.
Essentially, with the total rundown of everything, I do feel they are very viable and this mod has done much to preserve them, but if you remove the formerly mentioned damage aspects, they most definitely would fall out, as well as be Squish tanks. So at the very least, if you do go through with gutting their damage component, I'd humbly request you make an optional file to opt out. as I really enjoy what's been done so far and think we've hit comfortable spot without risking backsliding.
Well I certainly enjoy the discussion and appreciate the feedback, even if we disagree on something.
The AC change will be done soon, in one of the next updates. I'm still thinking about it, deciding between Wisdom to AC, proficiency to AC or something else. That should address the survivability.
As for gearing, I just think it's much more interesting to play a game that rewards you with better items and equipment. It's much more exciting to play all other classes, as you get new weapons and items throughout the game, with different effects and such. And this is much more prominent in BG3, where there's A LOT of magic items, that quickly spiral out of (typical 5e) balance for sure. And even in 5e, with much less items (due to attunement limitations), there's a DM that can custom made something cool for you, that's exciting as well. I really do see this as one of the major falling points for druids, there's no reason to "nerf" the fun for them like that. And a good DM usually would make up some custom made, druidic-themed item that would work with the WS. It would be nice to have more of that in the game.
Yeah I think I know which mods your speak of, probably Syrchalis' mods with equipment for druids.To be fair, they did an amazing job technically-wise, but yeah I'm of the same opinion, it's very much overpowered and there's some nonsensical stuff in there too.
I've had plans for such a mod, with better equipment for WS, long before them, when we only started this mod. But of course much more reserved/balanced and in line with 5e. It's still in the plans, and I think it could be well counter-balanced with the removal of a third extra attack and additional damage. As an example, I would definitely remove the additional damage, when I make an item that gives you that in WS (some kind of elemental bonus, like on some weapons, as it's exactly what it's imitating).
So don't worry I won't be gutting their damage without anything to compensate them with. And it won't be done too soon. If anything, I'll include an optional file that restores it.
If you have a good handle on the math, balance and all that stuff, I would actually like some of your help, if you're want to, in designing the items and other stuff. You can message me on discord, the same name there. It becomes a very long thread here haha.
I agree, and very much enjoy the discussion as well. Disagreeing is a good start to a conversation on how best to find middle grounds or new ideas. I think the internet forgets that sometimes so finding a good debate is often hard.
The gear mod sounds about right, Syrchalis has done some good work imo, but they've backslid into 3.5 Territory a bit much for my tastes where druids were hands down capable of being one of the most hands down powerful entities (Most people talk about Wizards of course) But 3.5 Druids could have a bear companion better than your fighter, summon beasts on par with your dps, while still having some of the best dps spells and utility that clerics and wizards could offer. I remember an old GM biting through his cheek once upon a time when he proposed our party with a Joker style conundrum giving us two scenarios to choose from and should have reasonably been only able to muster the man power to satisfy one. Our Druid took his companion and army off to situation 2 and placated the whole situation by themselves. while the three of us managed reasonably well at 1.
Of course their mods don't add *all* that functionality but the level of power scaling definitely reminds me so. It might be why I don't normally use summons all too much. It might be an old holdover habit of not flooding a tabletop and having my turn take 5 minutes of rolls to complete.
You're in luck if you're looking for a numbers person. My Autism power is indeed math and I borderline enjoy balancing classes (I've developed my own Tabletop system based on Pathfinder as a guilty pleasure, so I'd been beat over the head quite often with the task) I think it would be fun to help out. You could reach me on Discord at Mirage#2847.
Your comments on Equipment would be a fun way to increase damage and functionality while also not taking away choices from other spellcasters. That's where I start to struggle on my MD. Knowing all of the equipment is unique and 1 per game, I sit there almost amused, knowing the choices won't matter largely because of WS, but the full caster choices that do exist and would normally function on a druid, I realize would be better spent on other full casters in the party who are going to make use of it entirely. Funny enough, my multiplayer party enjoys running with me, because my MD doesn't require much of anything to function and I can reasonably pass on all but two or three pieces of gear in the playthrough.
We don't run mods, with that group, so its a little painful. Most of my spell slots are used to charm, enhanced ability and heal between battles if we're running low on potions. With WS locking me out of most spells, we normally make me the utility sponge to buff rolls outside of combat, since I can't be relied on to buff in it.
I know there's parties out there that long rest between battles, and while that's a strategy that's viable, the group I run with doesn't like to do so either. (I haven't met many GM's that give you a full rest between every combat either so I blame tabletop conditioning a bit haha) so we pace ourselves fairly well.
13AC WS tank, making multiple con saves a round, makes Even pre-debuffing with Spike growth and such limited, especially when equipment to boost DC's usually goes to real full casters, making the likelyhood of it working even slimmer.
The normal sequence of events for me, is to open with Lightning, and stand back to wait for an opening where I'm not going to be one rounded. Enemies prioritize units with concentration skills up, so, between me and the Paladin if we WERE to stand toe to toe, I gain hate almost immediately over him which becomes a liability when I lose lets say 50hp, as opposed to the 20-25 the fighter would take, between DR and evading attacks. Makes me normally blow my following turn with lunar mend, and such. I also most certainly have lower saves than the Paladin as well, thanks to lack of equipment support and natural abilities so, I'm normally the one charmed/feared etc. I actually find myself in cat mode, pouncing and subduing the trash mobs rather than engaging in front line.
Even when paired with our Monk, who has evasion, pen defense a disgusting 24 AC, and healing himself with his punches, Its an interesting position to try to find your niche as to what type of Melee fighter you can be in WS. Thank god for the abilities in each form giving you some semblance of utility because every Martial has loads of options as well.
Before I word wall you again, we can take up this conversation in Discord if you'd like. Appreciate the responses. Definitely been having fun.
i finally downloaded this mod cuz i saw in the images that you can turn into a dragon! now i can realize the dream of my Githyanki Tav Kikyo to turn into an avatar of her dragon, to summon the full fire power of her red dragon ancestory (she is a draconic fire sorcerer)
or is it only possible if you go full druid? cuz i have at least 1 level in draconic sorcerer for the scales
or is the dragon form from a different mod entirely?
Dragon form is currently disabled and on hold until I develop and implement it properly. It was originally put in the game by Kalle in an unfinished and unbalanced state. In any case, if/when it comes back, it will be a late game, level 10 or probably 12 form.
Just so you know, druids in 5e are not able to transform into dragons with their WS, it's the spell Shapechange - which is a level 9 spell, available from level 17, which is WAY out of scope of this game. We can, of course, make such a blasphemy and make it work as a WS, but that would require some balancing, of course.
So if/when it comes back as a WS, it most probably would be a level 12 form, and that's a full druid build.
i see. its understandable if it will take a long time to adjust it. this would actually be the only mod where any character could transform into a dragon this way (outside of the half-dragon mod which is its own race)
Yeah I'll look into it for the next update. I don't consider it legitimate per 5e to use Tavern Brawler with WS at all - but for those who do, I would at least take a look and if it's not too complicated, it will be included in the next update.
Howdy, first of all, I wanted to say thank you for your work on this mod; it's really been fun so far!
I also wanted to ask if your mod worked with Unlock Level Curve or not (Levels 13-20)? If not, I am also curious to know if you would ever plan to make it work with that mod!
@ShadyDax hamster shouldnt be a critter with those stats seems abusable since its ritual, would be nice to change stats to match other critters or remove from critter
Yeah, I tried to fix this a few times, it just doesn't seem to work. The hamster template is extremely weird - it was a hassle to even get it to work, but it's ultimately because of how they implemented Boo. These stats are derived from him, even if I change them in the templates, for some reason.
Just, don't abuse it lol, there's no reason to. Just enjoy the hamster form out of combat for what it is :)
890 comments
Install with BG3MM as usual, and make sure Mod Fixer is installed - or stuff WILL break, as with all the mods.
- The mod is not compatible with any mods that affect druid's WS progression/mechanics. Even if they were technically compatible, they are not designed/balanced to be used together. The stuff will either break or won't be properly balanced - use them together at you own risk.
- At some point I'll make patches or will make use of Script Extender to make it more compatible with custom subclasses.
- If you have any issues, you can file a report in the bugs section.
- In case you experience issues such as missing features or forms, make sure to clean up after the previously installed mods, or make a full clean reinstall of the game. Some mods leave loose files - these files are not visible by any BG3 Mod Manager, and may cause issues. Or it can be caused by the game itself, after major patches - that's why it's recommended to make a full clean reinstall of the game, after such updates (of course, you can keep your current mods and saves).
- We still have some forms and abilities that would like to have their own unique icons - if you have any experience with that, and interested in landing a hand - please contact me, so we can work on it.
- If you have experience in working with models, and interested in making new custom forms in the future - contact me, as well.
- As of now, we are limited to using the existing models which we already have in the game.
- The mod is still in development, with a lot of features in the works and in the plans. If you have a request or ideas for new features, quality of life, forms or abilities, feel free to leave suggestions/feedback in the comments.
- And of course, you can support me with some coffee here. If you do so, thank you very much.
- AC scaling for WS.
- More class actions/abilities usable in WS - with proper animations. Such as Fighter's combat maneuvers, Monk's Stunning Strike, and a better implementation for Diving Strike and Tiger's Bloodlust.
- I"m considering addressing a proper balance and DPR for WS - make it more consistent with other classes and 5e design:
- remove (Larian's homebrew) additional damage scaling in WS
- remove (Larian's homebrew) second Extra Attack in WS at level 10
- move Extra Attack in WS from level 5 to level 6, consistent with other full spellcaster classes that get an additional attack at level 6 (e.g. Swords/Valour Bard)
- All of this is, of course, a heavy nerf (to a homebrewed Larian's version of a druid), but I think it's more consistent, fair and healthy for the game overall - and can be compensated by other features - it opens up more room for improvements on other areas, such as better abilities, forms and gearing for WS. It won't be done without that, to counter-balance it. It should also be considered that druid is a full spellcaster class, so it's already pretty strong, and shouldn't be as strong in melee as a full martial class, such as Fighter - the only class in the game that gets a second Extra Attack as their main feature. It would also make multiclassing much better - as of right now, it may not be worth giving up additional damage scaling and a second extra attack, even for Barbarian - which otherwise is a very popular and strong multiclass for Moon Druids in 5e.
- Updates for current forms, and their abilities. I won't list everything here, but I want to: do another pass for all the spider forms and their abilities; make a proper 5e web ability for spiders, a new ability for Saber Tiger, a new ability for bears, rework boar's charge, etc etc.
- Update Giant Badger form: add proper scaling, rework burrow/unfurrow ability, make a new rage ability.
- Update Bulette form: make a Burrow/Unburrow abilities, add Blindsense as immunity to being blinded (per 5e). - It will also make Bulette work in darkness teams.
- Fix Saber Tiger's atrocious hitbox, so it's easier to target enemies (and not yourself).
- Make a new dinosaur form - that's focused on bleeds.
- Add a Displacer Beast as a WS form. I initially wanted to make it as an improvement for a Panther form, for higher level moon druids - but Displacer Beast doesn't have the animations for abilities like Pounce and Ambush to work. And I also don't like the illithid themed version of this form, it doesn't fit druids (and doesn't make sense anyway). So I'll make an appropriate rework that will be more faithful to 5e and will be in theme of a beast itself.
- (At some point) make a pass for all the elemental forms and their abilities.
- (At some point) I'm considering making a full scaling for all the WS forms. So they won't just scale in HP, but will also scale in stats, according to CR of that druid level. This will also make a slight difference between moon and non-moon druids, as they progress CR at a different pace. - This is how it should've been done in 5e to begin with, if not for the amount of different possible forms. With a limited amount of forms that we have in this game, it should be possible to make it, but still will take A LOT of work.
- Add alternative colors for current forms.
- Add more critter forms, such as: blue jay, badger (not a giant one), and more.
- Add more alternative colors for current forms.
- New icons, updated descriptions, fixes, general polish as usual.
- (At some point) Make a separate mod, for better equipment/gearing for WS.
I'm also currently working on rewriting the description, with all the changes, better structure, all the details and explanations.
Tell me what you think about all this, if you have any ideas/suggestions, and I may even add it to the list.
Now that most of the technical stuff is out of the way, I can focus on the more interesting things again - new features, forms, abilities and updates for existing ones.
It's in Spell_Projectile.txt - look for the entry "WSO_Projectile_Jump_Owlbear_Wildshape_Lunge", and change the line
I am going to have to play around with the changes that you made a bit more to get a feel for the current level of Moon druid, admittedly as I've only dabbled with it for a few hours, So my experience comes from BG3/5E experiences in general. I'm going to try to make this succinct to not word wall you as best I can.
Main point of this post:
Pushing WS Extra attack back, and removing the second one at 10 is fairly crippling.
Druids are full casters, sure, but Moon druids certainly take a hit to this in Lieu of specializing in WS. I think I understand your logic with trying to balance them to full casters but I believe you might be focusing on only one aspect and not taking into account several others.
WS at level 6 to match bard seems good in theory but bards still have their full kit at all times while being able to attack twice. WS locks you to not using your spells anymore and don't have nearly any of the utility a bard has. while bards still retain a high AC, and access to all of their equipment and feats.
[Fighters get the support of every feat, tons of armor and self buffing abilities]
For instance my level 8 Fighter has 21AC at 76HP and Swings for 2D6+16 +2D4Fire Twice for 20-36 Damage a Swing Twice rerolling her damage twice and taking the higher amount on 18-20 Critical Strike Range. Can't be crit and DR5 vs Non Magial.
This is all without any exterior buffs, oils, or elixirs. Fighters are not in any danger of being surpassed by any WS in any stretch of the imagination. Blow for blow, that fighter is going to out tank multiple creatures at once
If we use Hunters mark from the Helm and a ring we get an additional 1D6 + 1D4 Psychic
^ This isn't even taking into account tadpole powers either.
Owlbear by comparison is 13 AC at 64hp, 20 Crit range, and is 4x hitbox size = huge easily hit hp sponge. No DR.
Swings for 2D8+8 twice.
Its equipment gives..nothing. Aside from the Ring that gives 1D4 bonus to attack.
Tadpole powers? Nope.
Only feat that helps it is TB which is pretty much mandatory.
The fact that any monster rolling higher than a 5 will hit the owlbear makes it just a liability that needs to be chain healed to stay alive or reshift into WS to heal which is one of the biggest and only major advantages it has.
If you also remove Larians bonus damage scaling to the attacks, its now doing half the damage of a fighter, and by level 10 becomes obsolete almost entirely as fighters now deal more than three times the damage as a fighter while also giving disadvantage to everyone that tries to hit it, at that point.
This leaves a Moon Druid being a mediocre full caster and mediocre HP sponge for the most part not being good at either. The druid being vastly tankier out of its forms than in it.
My Bard and Warlock can face tank leagues better without any restrictions, can cast all their spells at greater damage boasting nearly the same AC as the fighter, getting hit less and having so much more utility without the action economy penalty.
We're not even going to talk about the Cleric who boasts 26+ AC and is a walking fortress killing most creatures around it by simply walking next to them and existing. If anyone needs a nerf its not Wildshape druid in my most humble opinion. =)
So I see how it would've been fair (to have 2 extra attacks and damage scaling), but on the other hand - what if this change (nerf) was done together with a full WS scaling - meaning that same forms would've had up to par AC and stats for their level - then they wouldn't be as crippled. Of course, the point remains that without proper gearing for WS, they still won't be able to stand up to fighters and other martials - but what if that's also addressed?
I still think it's a much better design if WS didn't had two extra attacks like fighters do - and didn't rely on this as a "fix" for a poorly made class without scaling in WS, and without proper gearing for it.
This won't be done until these issues are addressed first, rest assured. Tell me what you think of that. Don't be afraid to "word wall" me, if anything we can move to discord or some such, if we really need to have a proper conversation. I'm always open for that.
As I said, it opens up more room for improvements in other areas, such as this - better abilities in WS forms, coupled with stat scaling and proper WS gearing. It's a much better (and more interesting) design than just "two extra attacks and damage bonus" is. But it takes much, much more work, of course.
And I still retain the opinion that features like this, which are given by default, shouldn't be comparable to minmaxed builds.
Even more important, I'm immune to crits, have DR5, which makes my Effective HP much higher, triple crit range, and over 20AC, with resists to several damage sources and advantages to saving throws. not even taking account I can use my reaction to counter attack as a Battle Master increasing DPS and action economy further.
By ACT 3, it gets worse, as my fighter will have perm freedom of movement, movement speed boosts, resist to all sources of damage, an extra reaction, advantage on all spell saving throws, dex throws, con saves etc. Equipment is that much of a game changer for Martials in BG3 and why they stand far above Casters as opposed to 5E.
Main issue in BG3 is that it isn't 5E in the spirit of Equipment. BG3 has no attunement slots so, it throws the entire balance of 5E out the window and flips the balance of Martial vs Caster. Top DPS classes in the game are Fighter/Barbarian/Paladin. At end game doing 250-500 damage a round and that isn't even using niche cheese builds.
5E give you 3 magic items to equip. BG3 gives you up to 11 to work with that largely benefit Martials.
WS has no equipment support outside of two items, one of which you get at the last 20% of the game.
Little Feat support
Zero Tadpole Support
No Oil/Item Support
A Damage typing that has 0 support for WS. (Natural Attacks)
As discussed eliminates almost all druid full caster aspects.
Making equipment support WS goes against every iteration of WS and the nature of it outside a few niche magic items, so that's not ideally a good solutoin imo.
Wildshape in 3.5 and Pathfinder allowed druids to cast spells while in it either as a Feat, or Subclass feature at around level 5.
This has been done in other mods and largely brings back the druids functionality so that's a possible fix
(5E being the checkers to the Chess game that is Dungeons and Dragons over simplified many classes as we know. Druids gaining the hardest nerfs having their animal companion taken away and given to Rangers, their WS nerfed into the ground, and iconic main damaging spells like Flame Strike taken away as well and given to Clerics. Even iconic features like poison and difficult terrain immunity has been stripped)
Moon Druid stats can also take 8's in STR/DEX/CON without suffering much at all, while at the same time, their WIS/INT/CHA does nothing to directly support WS outside of minor saving throws making their stat choices almost negligible.
Solution? Make WIS to add to AC and Damage in WS and make it Native to only Moon Druid. Simple and Clean and It gives MD a unique and worthwhile support to specialize in WS without having to fine tune every form and break the spirit of the class. Even at 20 WIS The owlbear gets an 18 AC which is average for a level 5 tank and hardly game breaking. 20 WIS isn't even as "easy" to get since no equipment boosts WIS natively making you rely on ASI and things like Hags hair. At the very least it makes WIS functional and gives it a purpose.
Moon Druids can't even buff themselves with their own spells making them completely reliant on other classes far more than Martials.
Larian didn't give bonus damage to WS by accident, they did it to make them even remotely viable because even at their best, they will come up average to even a poorly geared Pure Martial and with Druids giving up everything in WS to BE a martial, you are wholly right with them having to compete because they will never compare to aLand/Spore Druid , so they NEED to be at least comparable to Martials to be worth their party slot.
Even an Abjuration wizard can face tank better than a Moon Druid in BG3, while still providing Haste, Fireballs, Counterspells, Wards and countless other utility at the same time.
Animal Companion wasn't a great thing for a druid, as well as their spontaneous summoning, as it took away even more of their power and spread it between their summons and pets. Overall, with all of that they were strong and versatile, sure - but their own spellcasting and WS wasn't great.
You mention some mods bringing the capability of spellcasting in WS - I haven't seen any such mods, and knowing the technicalities of it in the code, I'm not sure if it would be even possible - and if so, very complicated to do.
The way it works in 5e, is that druids rely on Concentration spells with recasting, such as Call Lightning, Moon Beam, etc - and then recast them while in WS. This was one of the first things we fixed with this mod.
Currently, druids are not that bad in BG3, as they have summons that have their own Concentration spells - while druids can focus on their own, and stack them together, while also being pretty great in melee, and providing some nice buffs in their spell list along the way. They are in no way, shape or form as bad as people think. You still can do a lot, but of course you're right about the disparity between martials and casters due to gearing.
About gearing - what I meant is not giving druids the ability to use any gear in WS. I meant making and giving druids more magic items that would specifically work in WS, and would be themed around that as well. There's just not enough of such items in the game right now, and I don't consider it going against any iteration of WS "and the nature of it" - that's where we would have to disagree.
Little feat support is true, but honestly as a druid you would just take feats for better Concentration saves, and then max out Wisdom, as usual. Concentration spells are still the main part of your kit while in WS, that's how it plays in 5e.
No tadpole support sucks, of course - we will see what can be done about that. I would like to fix it. Even then, I imagine as a druid most of the players would play clean of tadpoles, as for the theme. Then it would be no different to any other "clean" run.
I agree that making Wisdom play more of a factor in WS is a good thing, since that's the main thing druids build around, as there are no feats for WS specifically. However, you overlook that all the WS abilities with DC saves use druid's spellcasting DC, meaning it's scaling off of Wisdom, and it's not set in stone as it is in WS templates in 5e.
We also have A LOT of such abilities in WS, and a lot of them are not even limited 'per short rest' or 'per fight', which is insane in some cases. As an Owlbear you can spam pounce attack - flight through the whole field and do AOE PRONE without any limitations, and then you also have an aoe damage ability that you can spam; Dire Wolf has an ability to single target prone enemies every turn, same as Panther and Saber Tiger; and etc.
Just the ability to choose from any of those abilities is huge by itself, not to mention that elemental forms are pretty powerful as well. You're talking about a level 8 fighter, well then compare level 10 fighter to level 10 druid, with all the elemental forms, and now also with this mod Bulette and other forms. It's not a slouch, and honestly at this point the game becomes a cake walk anyway.
And in the end, I want to say, if you want WS to be comparable to full martials, then why would you ever play a Fighter then? If WS does the same damage and has the same survivability, etc etc - and then out of WS you also have all the druid's spells, summons and buffs for the party. What's the point of playing martial characters, then?
It should be "decent" in melee - yeah, I agree. But "being able to compete" and "being comparable to martials" - well, that can quickly become too good, too fast.
I don't agree that they are not "viable" without some extra bonus damage. I don't agree that Moon Druids give up everything in WS to be martials, as you said. You still have your Concentration spells, summons, and the ability to change forms as you need.
The Feat support I agree with, there aren't many options, but in BG3 The feat of course do more for melee power scaling, allowing rolling damage dice twice, adding 10 flat damage, and such which snowballs rather well combined with other options. I wouldn't add feats myself either. I'm just pointing out why Melee is king in BG3 as opposed to tabletops where I think anyone instinct would be to pat the martials on the head and feel sorry for them past level 5 as is normal.
I agree with the Tadpole assertion as well, thematically a druid would stay clear in most cases, save for a few niche circles not in BG. Just another power factor though like feats that bump martials up though.
This mod definitely puts WS in line closer with Martials and I think they are definitely in a good place. The whole point of the thread really was a breakdown of where WS is at, Versus Melee. Its still under a Martial damage wise which is absolutely fine because of the abilities, but not too terribly so. The only glaring thing is the Horrendous AC being a burden for a large part of the game.
As far as the Mod for WS form to be able to continue to cast, It was released and quickly broke after patch (2?) and the modder said the changes they made in patch, he wasn't sure how to fix and it died. I don't have the mod anymore to check sadly. From memory, and I could be wrong it was changing the identifier of Wildshape to act like Disguise self so it wouldn't lock out casting. It was a pretty dirty and time consuming work around from what I understand but the details elude me.
MD's competing with Martials who can become too good too fast is of course a little unreasonable. I'm just looking to try to maintain a certain threshold on either side, of "why play x when y does z much better scenarios".
This whole exchange while wordy was mostly geared towards your comments with removing 3rd attack, removing the bonus and pushing WS 2nd back, although I may have fell down the rabbit hole with trying to outline the many facets of what goes into trying to maintain the "balance" of being a martial here.
Spent much of the last two days running Druid/Barb/Fighter/Monk as my testing to see exactly where they sit in the game.
(This testing does assume we are not taking the ritual WS method, while although I wholehearted believe two charges of WS is completely bonkers and very limiting to the form (The most limiting version of WS in tabletop, compared to previous editions, including pathfinder) I'm not sure how I feel about at will, out of combat use. just yet. So I left it wayside for now.)
[Right now WS has about 2/3rds the damage of a Barbarian/Fighter/Monk on average with Bullete and Elemental being about 4/5th the damage, but also taking up both slots of wild shape to do it.] Employing summons does even the board fairly well. I personally don't normally use summons myself but their use is rather valuable in bridging the gap if you enjoy that playstyle. I suppose your wording of taking away a 3rd attack just because its a fighter exclusive may have sparked much of this entirely when I think about it.
Mainly, with the Damage bonus and 3rd Attack WS doesn't even begin to encroach on what martials can do, even if we added Wis to Damage, it wouldn't surpass a well built martial which I moderately used to exemplify that point. So with that said, removing them felt a red flag for bringing WS too low in the damage category. Wis to Damage isn't necessary, just an afterthought.
Survivability though, is a harsh thing as we beat that horse before in prior messages. The health of WS is very nice, and comfortable, but The AC is unforgiving and the Wis to AC would play two fold at what we discussed.
Essentially, with the total rundown of everything, I do feel they are very viable and this mod has done much to preserve them, but if you remove the formerly mentioned damage aspects, they most definitely would fall out, as well as be Squish tanks. So at the very least, if you do go through with gutting their damage component, I'd humbly request you make an optional file to opt out. as I really enjoy what's been done so far and think we've hit comfortable spot without risking backsliding.
The AC change will be done soon, in one of the next updates. I'm still thinking about it, deciding between Wisdom to AC, proficiency to AC or something else. That should address the survivability.
As for gearing, I just think it's much more interesting to play a game that rewards you with better items and equipment. It's much more exciting to play all other classes, as you get new weapons and items throughout the game, with different effects and such. And this is much more prominent in BG3, where there's A LOT of magic items, that quickly spiral out of (typical 5e) balance for sure. And even in 5e, with much less items (due to attunement limitations), there's a DM that can custom made something cool for you, that's exciting as well. I really do see this as one of the major falling points for druids, there's no reason to "nerf" the fun for them like that. And a good DM usually would make up some custom made, druidic-themed item that would work with the WS. It would be nice to have more of that in the game.
Yeah I think I know which mods your speak of, probably Syrchalis' mods with equipment for druids.To be fair, they did an amazing job technically-wise, but yeah I'm of the same opinion, it's very much overpowered and there's some nonsensical stuff in there too.
I've had plans for such a mod, with better equipment for WS, long before them, when we only started this mod. But of course much more reserved/balanced and in line with 5e. It's still in the plans, and I think it could be well counter-balanced with the removal of a third extra attack and additional damage. As an example, I would definitely remove the additional damage, when I make an item that gives you that in WS (some kind of elemental bonus, like on some weapons, as it's exactly what it's imitating).
So don't worry I won't be gutting their damage without anything to compensate them with. And it won't be done too soon. If anything, I'll include an optional file that restores it.
If you have a good handle on the math, balance and all that stuff, I would actually like some of your help, if you're want to, in designing the items and other stuff. You can message me on discord, the same name there. It becomes a very long thread here haha.
The gear mod sounds about right, Syrchalis has done some good work imo, but they've backslid into 3.5 Territory a bit much for my tastes where druids were hands down capable of being one of the most hands down powerful entities (Most people talk about Wizards of course) But 3.5 Druids could have a bear companion better than your fighter, summon beasts on par with your dps, while still having some of the best dps spells and utility that clerics and wizards could offer. I remember an old GM biting through his cheek once upon a time when he proposed our party with a Joker style conundrum giving us two scenarios to choose from and should have reasonably been only able to muster the man power to satisfy one. Our Druid took his companion and army off to situation 2 and placated the whole situation by themselves. while the three of us managed reasonably well at 1.
Of course their mods don't add *all* that functionality but the level of power scaling definitely reminds me so. It might be why I don't normally use summons all too much. It might be an old holdover habit of not flooding a tabletop and having my turn take 5 minutes of rolls to complete.
You're in luck if you're looking for a numbers person. My Autism power is indeed math and I borderline enjoy balancing classes (I've developed my own Tabletop system based on Pathfinder as a guilty pleasure, so I'd been beat over the head quite often with the task) I think it would be fun to help out. You could reach me on Discord at Mirage#2847.
Your comments on Equipment would be a fun way to increase damage and functionality while also not taking away choices from other spellcasters. That's where I start to struggle on my MD. Knowing all of the equipment is unique and 1 per game, I sit there almost amused, knowing the choices won't matter largely because of WS, but the full caster choices that do exist and would normally function on a druid, I realize would be better spent on other full casters in the party who are going to make use of it entirely. Funny enough, my multiplayer party enjoys running with me, because my MD doesn't require much of anything to function and I can reasonably pass on all but two or three pieces of gear in the playthrough.
We don't run mods, with that group, so its a little painful. Most of my spell slots are used to charm, enhanced ability and heal between battles if we're running low on potions. With WS locking me out of most spells, we normally make me the utility sponge to buff rolls outside of combat, since I can't be relied on to buff in it.
I know there's parties out there that long rest between battles, and while that's a strategy that's viable, the group I run with doesn't like to do so either. (I haven't met many GM's that give you a full rest between every combat either so I blame tabletop conditioning a bit haha) so we pace ourselves fairly well.
13AC WS tank, making multiple con saves a round, makes Even pre-debuffing with Spike growth and such limited, especially when equipment to boost DC's usually goes to real full casters, making the likelyhood of it working even slimmer.
The normal sequence of events for me, is to open with Lightning, and stand back to wait for an opening where I'm not going to be one rounded. Enemies prioritize units with concentration skills up, so, between me and the Paladin if we WERE to stand toe to toe, I gain hate almost immediately over him which becomes a liability when I lose lets say 50hp, as opposed to the 20-25 the fighter would take, between DR and evading attacks. Makes me normally blow my following turn with lunar mend, and such.
I also most certainly have lower saves than the Paladin as well, thanks to lack of equipment support and natural abilities so, I'm normally the one charmed/feared etc. I actually find myself in cat mode, pouncing and subduing the trash mobs rather than engaging in front line.
Even when paired with our Monk, who has evasion, pen defense a disgusting 24 AC, and healing himself with his punches, Its an interesting position to try to find your niche as to what type of Melee fighter you can be in WS. Thank god for the abilities in each form giving you some semblance of utility because every Martial has loads of options as well.
Before I word wall you again, we can take up this conversation in Discord if you'd like. Appreciate the responses. Definitely been having fun.
or is it only possible if you go full druid? cuz i have at least 1 level in draconic sorcerer for the scales
or is the dragon form from a different mod entirely?
Just so you know, druids in 5e are not able to transform into dragons with their WS, it's the spell Shapechange - which is a level 9 spell, available from level 17, which is WAY out of scope of this game. We can, of course, make such a blasphemy and make it work as a WS, but that would require some balancing, of course.
So if/when it comes back as a WS, it most probably would be a level 12 form, and that's a full druid build.
Another mod has already fixed this: https://www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/3214?tab=description
but I'd much rather use your mod. Any chance you could include a bugfix?
I also wanted to ask if your mod worked with Unlock Level Curve or not (Levels 13-20)? If not, I am also curious to know if you would ever plan to make it work with that mod!
Either way, great work!
Just, don't abuse it lol, there's no reason to. Just enjoy the hamster form out of combat for what it is :)