Having tried this, I think this is probably one of the better character setups I've tried; for people complaining that you have six primary skills and six secondary skills, you don't have to use all of them. You don't have to use any of them at all, actually, but it does introduce some of the interesting parts of the mod if you use just one. Essentially, this mod lets you choose—do you want to have a vanilla or almost vanilla character, do you want to change just a few things, or do you want to change every skill and attribute, including carry weight? In fact, for the people wanting to play with reduced carry weight but who run into random mod incompatibilities, this could let them start out with it without having to manually change it with the console. I also find the tiered attribute level up bonus system interesting; it allows me to focus on building up magicka reserves for an unarmored mage/archer/thief character without totally neglecting stamina and health. (And yes, that is generally what I play as; squishy it may be, but that's only if they manage to hit you.)
The only thing that I can think of to augment this mod would be to include an option to get/select spell(s) that correspond to schools selected as primary skills; possibly secondary skills if it's done on a basis of primary skills get apprentice spells and secondary skills get novice spells. Note that I say an option for it; as I stated before, I think one of the best things about this mod is how customizable it is.
A note on SkyRe compatibility. Since the mod is modular and all options can be turned off or skipped, I do not plan on doing any other compatibility changes. The one exception is auto perks. Since I don't play SkyRe and do not plan to, I need your help to make auto perks compatible. I need 5 perks from each skill. I need the level requirement, FormID and the name of the mod file it is defined in. In addition the information needs to be in the correct order, pre-reqs come first. See the destruction example below for details ; the perks are defined in Skyrim.esm ElseIf(skill == "Destruction") If(!_bDestructionMax) _bDestructionMax = isMax ApplySkillPerks(level, 0x000F2CA8, 0,;/ Novice Destruction /; 0x000C44BF, 25, ;/ Apprentice Destruction/; 0x000C44C0, 50, ;/ Adept Destruction /; 0x000C44C1, 75, ;/ Expert Destruction /; 0x000C44C2, 100, ;/ Master Destruction /; EndIf
The original purpose of the auto perks was to automatically gain those perks that I thought should have been part of the skill progression. I play pure mages and the novice to master spell perks are almost worthless. It made more sense that the half magicka would be granted once your skill level was high enough. I decided to apply that to all skill trees. Some just didn't fit well, like smithing.
Well I have the read me file, what I can do is send that to you or a link, I believe it has all the perk trees in them so if that would help then let me know.
I have downloaded SkyRe before, It just isn't for me. Picking auto perks for SkyRe is a motivation issue. Reading through all the documentation and picking the best perks for auto and then getting the ids and coding it, ugh. Since there is interest I will do it, but it may be awhile. I am taking a break from Skyrim.
I gave this a little test run today, and it seems to work perfectly. Congratulations. Nicely done.
However, I have a few problems with the mod. First, I was forced to use the mod before I had a chance to configure it. This is the opposite of the way a mod should work, in my opinion. I should be able to choose my configuration options and then use the mod. Many MCM mods these days include a checkbox to enable the mod. Perhaps this would be an option. Or at least code the mod to not activate until we have had a chance to configure it.
Second, I think 12 primary and secondary skills is way, way too high a number. This is what really prevents me from using this mod. There are only 18 skills in total in Skyrim. Picking 12 of them is far too many. Morrowind, with 27 skills, only had 5 Majors and 5 Minors. Oblivion, with 21 skills, had only 7 Majors.
If the primary and/or secondary skill numbers cannot be lowered then I think there should be an option to disable secondary skills altogether. Otherwise we are forced to pick practically every skill in the game for every character. The point of using a mod such as this, in my opinion, is to make each character unique as possible. If I have to choose magic skills for my warrior simply to fill some arbitrary quota then I feel I am taking a step backwards toward one-size-fits-all chargen, which is what I was trying to avoid.
I think you have laid the foundation for a really excellent character creation mod here. You are off to a great start. But I feel it needs more work before I can use it or endorse it. I hope you continue to work on Alternate Character System because I feel it has the potential to be the best character development mod out there.
What version are you using? The latest version has an 'Adjust' option that allows you to configure whatever message you are looking at. You can also move forward with whatever choices you have made by using the 'Continue' option. For example, if you wanted only two primary and no secondary skills, pick two primaries and then choose the 'Continue' option. The secondary skill message will now be displayed. Choose 'Continue' again to skip any secondary selection.
Neat, I've used CCO in the past and liked it but it wasn't very customizable, so this looks quite nice. I was wondering though if you'd be willing to include a option to change the starting carryweight amount? I liked the concept of CCO with the varying carryweights per race and such.
Also I use Uncapper to give X amount of attributes upon level up and then to give X after like level 20 and so on, would turning on the extra attributes conflict with that? I like the concept of allowing more than just the one attribute at level up, but don't know if this would overwrite Uncapper's settings as levels increase.
I wouldn't be against adding an attribute summary message before the standing stone selection. This message would have an adjust option to fine tune the attributes if desired.
The only conflict I see is my mod trying to figure out what attributes were chosen on level up. Since you can gain more than 1 level at a time this mod does two calculations: 1. Compares player level to determine how many levels were gained 2. Compares attribute levels to determine which attributes were chosen The comparison done in 2 assumes the attributes have gone up 10 points. If the game allowed my mod to go first than everything will be fine. Otherwise you will get some unpredictable attribute gains. It wouldn't ruin your save or anything like that. However, that being said I would recommend only using one or the other.
I'm curious why you changed the attributes? Its a minimal change I know but lowering the stealth health and stamina numbers has me worried on the survivability of any new stealthy characters I make. Not even going to try a mage, they were squishy before let alone now. While I would like the other new additions I think I am going to stick with V1.0 for now.
The mod applies a positive attribute adjustment for every primary (+10) / secondary (+6 up from +5 ver 1.0) skill chosen (see the description for the break up per skill). When a focus is chosen a net -60 is given. Sounds bad, but consider if you choose 6 primary and 6 secondary skills: (6 * 10) + (6 * 6) = 96. This is 36 more attribute points than vanilla. I created a test stealth and he had just over 120 health. It all depends on what skills you choose. As for mages I recommend BetterMagic for the much needed Alteration fixes + Lord standing stone. Then add the all attributes go up and are configurable, you can make the game as easy or as hard as you want. On a side note, I play the 1.0 version, 1.1 was for the community.
A new version has been released. The following is what has changed:
- Added the ability to configure when auto perks start. Default is skill level 10, value range [0-15]. The voices in my head finally won. It hasn't sat well with me that a skill at level 0 had a perk. This fixes that. The downside is that if you spend a perk point for an auto perk before the start level, you basically lose that auto perk.
- Changed the way attributes are adjusted by focus, primary and secondary skill choices. It bugged me that you could skip the focus selection and then get a major bump in stats from selecting primary and secondary skills. I reduced the overall attribute penalty for choosing a focus to -10 for stealth and -20 for the other two. All skill choices for primary and secondary now give bonuses and a small penalty to attributes. Example: Primary Archery gets +8 Stamina and -4 Magicka.
I am planning on removing the standing stone portion of this mod. Now is the time to speak up if you still want the option available. It is the last thing I have planned to do to the mod before posting the update.
Reasons for removing: 1. It makes the beginning easier (too easy in my opinion). 2. It completely removed any motivation to find any standing stone as I already picked the one I wanted. 3. Compatibility with mods that change the effects. 4. Reduces the complexity of the reset feature planned for the update
Please don't remove it, or at least, leave a version up as is. I generally don't go looking for the standing stones except the one I want. All your mod did was save me a trip to Markarth for the Lovers stone. I have never tried a mod to change standing stone effects so this one never affected me. If this makes your job easier by removing complexity by all means go for it. But, like I said, leave the current version up for those of us that prefer it.
I was headed here to say I love the mod. I just discovered it a few days ago and I have been enjoying it ever since. Along with Alternate Start Live Another Life this mod gave new life to Skyrim for me. I was growing bored with the grind and having to do the same set of quests over and over again at the start of a new game.
I will leave it in. I have always been on the border with that feature, besides you can always skip it if you don't want to use it. Thanks for the feedback.
Looks good so far. I'm a big fan of CCO but I really like the major/minor skills aspect of your mod. I've got one suggestion for you so far though: in CCO you are given the "New Beginnings" book that you can read to undo the skill choices and also easily change your race. I find that feature extremely helpful because I like to setup a 'fresh' save that I can load up and then alter the character however I want for a new playthrough and I won't have to worry with changing all my MCM settings for all the mods I use. So, my suggestion is to add a feature, through a book or an MCM option, to change race and repick skills if you're still level one.
I also would recommend an option to use/not use your mods Carryweight values. I use Requiem which greatly reduces the carryweights, but even with your mod loaded before Requiem it still overwrites Requiem's carryweight values, probably because it changes them with scripting after the launch of the game.
Thanks for the feedback. I am working to make things more configurable. I am hoping to release the update this weekend if all goes well. The update will contain a MCM menu for the options that run after character creation.
Give Feedback
49 comments
The only thing that I can think of to augment this mod would be to include an option to get/select spell(s) that correspond to schools selected as primary skills; possibly secondary skills if it's done on a basis of primary skills get apprentice spells and secondary skills get novice spells. Note that I say an option for it; as I stated before, I think one of the best things about this mod is how customizable it is.
; the perks are defined in Skyrim.esm
ElseIf(skill == "Destruction")
If(!_bDestructionMax)
_bDestructionMax = isMax
ApplySkillPerks(level,
0x000F2CA8, 0,;/ Novice Destruction /;
0x000C44BF, 25, ;/ Apprentice Destruction/;
0x000C44C0, 50, ;/ Adept Destruction /;
0x000C44C1, 75, ;/ Expert Destruction /;
0x000C44C2, 100, ;/ Master Destruction /;
EndIf
However, I have a few problems with the mod. First, I was forced to use the mod before I had a chance to configure it. This is the opposite of the way a mod should work, in my opinion. I should be able to choose my configuration options and then use the mod. Many MCM mods these days include a checkbox to enable the mod. Perhaps this would be an option. Or at least code the mod to not activate until we have had a chance to configure it.
Second, I think 12 primary and secondary skills is way, way too high a number. This is what really prevents me from using this mod. There are only 18 skills in total in Skyrim. Picking 12 of them is far too many. Morrowind, with 27 skills, only had 5 Majors and 5 Minors. Oblivion, with 21 skills, had only 7 Majors.
If the primary and/or secondary skill numbers cannot be lowered then I think there should be an option to disable secondary skills altogether. Otherwise we are forced to pick practically every skill in the game for every character. The point of using a mod such as this, in my opinion, is to make each character unique as possible. If I have to choose magic skills for my warrior simply to fill some arbitrary quota then I feel I am taking a step backwards toward one-size-fits-all chargen, which is what I was trying to avoid.
I think you have laid the foundation for a really excellent character creation mod here. You are off to a great start. But I feel it needs more work before I can use it or endorse it. I hope you continue to work on Alternate Character System because I feel it has the potential to be the best character development mod out there.
Also I use Uncapper to give X amount of attributes upon level up and then to give X after like level 20 and so on, would turning on the extra attributes conflict with that? I like the concept of allowing more than just the one attribute at level up, but don't know if this would overwrite Uncapper's settings as levels increase.
The only conflict I see is my mod trying to figure out what attributes were chosen on level up. Since you can gain more than 1 level at a time this mod does two calculations:
1. Compares player level to determine how many levels were gained
2. Compares attribute levels to determine which attributes were chosen
The comparison done in 2 assumes the attributes have gone up 10 points. If the game allowed my mod to go first than everything will be fine. Otherwise you will get some unpredictable attribute gains. It wouldn't ruin your save or anything like that. However, that being said I would recommend only using one or the other.
- Added the ability to configure when auto perks start. Default is skill level 10, value range [0-15]. The voices in my head finally won. It hasn't sat well with me that a skill at level 0 had a perk. This fixes that. The downside is that if you spend a perk point for an auto perk before the start level, you basically lose that auto perk.
- Changed the way attributes are adjusted by focus, primary and secondary skill choices. It bugged me that you could skip the focus selection and then get a major bump in stats from selecting primary and secondary skills. I reduced the overall attribute penalty for choosing a focus to -10 for stealth and -20 for the other two. All skill choices for primary and secondary now give bonuses and a small penalty to attributes. Example: Primary Archery gets +8 Stamina and -4 Magicka.
Reasons for removing:
1. It makes the beginning easier (too easy in my opinion).
2. It completely removed any motivation to find any standing stone as I already picked the one I wanted.
3. Compatibility with mods that change the effects.
4. Reduces the complexity of the reset feature planned for the update
I was headed here to say I love the mod. I just discovered it a few days ago and I have been enjoying it ever since. Along with Alternate Start Live Another Life this mod gave new life to Skyrim for me. I was growing bored with the grind and having to do the same set of quests over and over again at the start of a new game.