the reason axes are blunt weapons is explained in the book "manual of arms" as it says this: "To the uninitiated, axes and hammers may seem to be very different weapons, but the rhythm, drill, and physical strength used by both weapon types are virtually identical"
i know it is small but YES i so happy i don't have to waste time usinf the console over something so annoyingly small. ty m8 keep up the small things, coz those little tykes get on my back XD.
Why not just use the console and the player.setav command followed by blade or blunt. for instance, if your blunt is 74, you would type: player.setav blade 74 Then just use "blunt" instead of "blade" to set blunt to whatever your blade level was.
Come on! everyone know the cornerstone of a blade is the ability to stab with it! Can you stab someone with an axe effectively? IF you can I'll apologize, and probably run away 'cuz ya know, anyone capable of stabbing with an axe is one Bass Ad mocker futher
Actually, despite how they look and SEEM like the damage is dealt, axes and claymores/broadswords too aren't bladed/slicing weapons (even though they do have a blade). They are in fact crushing weapons like a mace, but they crush on a smaller area and therefore make a slit looking hole in armor or flesh.
As a previous poster pointed out, after but a few swings an edge goes dull. For this reason beheadings (by an axeman) in the old days weren't as quick as you would think and the neck was often just crushed and only partially cut off, hence the invention of the guillotine. "Fun Fact:" People used to "bribe" the executioner a few coins to sharpen their axe a bit so they died as quickly as possible.
A magically enchanted edge made to always be sharp is another story altogether though I guess...
Well technically, even though an axe and a mace are similar in how they are swung, and axe should technically stil be considered a blade, as when you hit something with an axe it slices like a sword; whereas a mace crushes. Look at it this way; a mace and an axe are swung similarly, but produce different effects upon contact, crushing and slicing respectively. A sword and an axe are swung differently, but produce the same slicing effect.
It does what it says but an axe is more of a blunt than a blade. Bladed weapons and axes have a very different motion of use where as Axes and hammers have a very similar hacking motion and both become more powerful with momentum.
I will try to stick to the concepts of physics and not the precise units and math. It is very difficult to get some engineers and scientists to explain physics this way. However I dislike trying to use exact “units” as they can easily confuse a basically simple concept for some people. When you can find a way to eliminate the literal units and still be approximately correct it can be much easer to grasp the fundamental concept. Once this is done, then latter you can try to become more precise with the formulas.
Some people see the world in numbers, some in shapes. Some see the world a little both ways. It is possible to have complete comprehension using only formulas. But you will have great difficulty communicating to the other 2/3 of the world if that is your way. As Einstein once said "You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother."
The following is a VERY BRIEF and VERY SIMPLIFIED treatment on weapons physics. This is just to give you a very general idea of how weapon Length, Speed and Damage all balance out in the melee weapons.
Many people do not realize this, in general melee weapons are really just clubs. Very after several blows are thrown at shields and armor the sharp edge on these weapons all but disappear.
Kinetic Energy is the important realm of physics when talking about Weapons with very high-speed movement such as arrows and bullets. However with slower moving heavy weapons; mass and velocity are basically of equal importance in determining the physical effects on the target and how the weapon “handles” while getting to the target.
Momentum = Mass x Velocity
Momentum is the property of a moving object to continue moving. It is the combination of mass and movement. A slow moving, very massive body and a rapid moving, light body can have the same momentum. Like energy momentum is neither created nor destroyed. It is only transported and/or transformed from one place to another or one state to another.
If your 1 pound dagger swings with 10 units of speed and your 10 pound mace swings with 1 unit of speed they will both result in about the same damage in the first moment of contact. However the heavy hammer is much harder to stop moving, so it continues to create damage in a slightly longer duration than the dagger.
Thus, in game like Oblivion 10 hits with a dagger should result in about the same damage as 1 hit with a mace (all other factors such as the quality of the steel being the same).
A heavy mass at rest will offer resistance to start movement. Once it is moving it will offer resistance to stop moving, This means that a weapon will start slowly and progress slowly to faster speeds when starting at rest from a dead stop. For a sword to reach optimum speed, a sufficient amount of distance must be traveled. This distance will be determined by such factors as the mass of the weapon, the mechanical leverage and the power applied to the weapon to accelerate the tip.
In games a 10 pound mace takes 10 times the "time" to complete a swing as a 1 pound dagger if all other factors are the same.
Using two hands on a weapon allows you to place the fulcrum and effort points of control further away from each other. This results in better control leverage and less effort in directing the weapons tip movement on very long or very top heavy weapons. Using only one hand on a weapon results in the fulcrum and effort control points being only a few inches away from each other.
However the one handed weapon has the freedom to swing much faster, thus producing more Impulse force when it hits.
The arms are primarily used to GUIDE the sword blow and act as the transmission device to bring power from the body into the target in the same way a ridding crop snaps out to move momentum from the large heavy base to the smaller lighter tip.
I first discovered this while doing kinetic energy tests with different weapons in the 1980s. I was amazed to discover that the kinetic energy from a two-handed weapon was not significantly higher than from a one-handed weapon of the same weight and length. This may be hard to understand, because most of your experience may tell you that you normally hit harder with a two-handed weapon. This is because most two-handed weapons have much more mass and a longer lever for a blade. And NOT because your second hand is contributing that much more power to the shot.
Remember that using two hands on a weapon allows you to place the fulcrum and effort points of control further away from each other. This extra control leverage contributes a great deal to better handling of the tip movement. However the extra pushing force just from the leverage is almost insignificant for impact because it is so slow. As such, on it’s own this additional (but slow) pushing force creates very poor impulse (less efficient transfer of force).
If the weapon is not very long or not very tip heavy, using 2 hands to wield that weapon is not the most efficient way to use your pair of hands. In fact it can even slow down the tip speed of some weapons unless you hold it with a “baseball” grip where your hands are touching each other. This is because your arms cannot move in opposite directions with enough agility to keep up with the possible final tip speed at the end of your weapon swing. This is not so much a problem with the longer 2 handed weapons such as the Claymore because the longer lever (from the fulcrum to the tip of the weapon) creates more than enough extra speed from the mechanical advantage to compensate for your second hand slowing down the effort side of the weapon.
If you have a short but top-heavy weapon you may choose to wield it either way depending on your desired results.
Two hands on this kind of weapon (such as a 2 handed AXE) will give you much more initial speed and weapon agility but will greatly slow down the final tip speed resulting in less impact. However this additional agility allows you to recover the weapon back into your ready position quicker and more accurately for defense and allows you to start your second shot sooner. It is possible to slide one hand down into a baseball grip or switch from 2 hands to one hand in mid swing in order to try to trade a little more power for a little less agility and less recovery speed.
One hand on this kind of weapon (such as a MACE) will give you a greater final tip speed resulting in more impact force but you will loose agility and the return motion back into your ready position will be much slower. This could leave you open to a counter attack for a longer time and result in fewer number of attacks per second than would be possible if you were using 2 hands. It is possible to switch from one hand to two hands during the return to your ready position in order to try to gain some agility for defense. But the extra work required to place and remove the second hand will add more time to initiate the following one handed attack.
Many lay-people do not know this, but most real melee weapons must land several inches DOWN from the tip of the weapon (on the sweet spot) to hit effectively. On a faster moving weapons that use more speed than weight (like a sword) this is the CENTER OF PERCUSSION. On slower moving weapons that are top-heavy and use more weight than speed (like an axe or mace) it is the CENTER OF GRAVITY.
There is a heck of a lot more on the subject, but that is the boiled down version.
I am the author Duke Patrick's SCA MOD and some others.
You wrote:
This is just a Question. I like the idea of axes being with blades but I have spent hrs developing blunt. Is there any way that I can swap my blade skill with my blunt skill, because I would prefer not to console my blade up and make my level and strength and whatever else go up. I am not wanting to cheat and I thought it was rediculous that an axe was considered a blunt weapon. I would like to just flip flop the skills. Any help would be much apreciated!!!
15 comments
Then just use "blunt" instead of "blade" to set blunt to whatever your blade level was.
Viola, problem solved.
Axes use a blunt Technique, IE Circular strikes with a bent arm
i know it doesnt make sense calling axes blunt when theyre clearly sharp, but Bethesda got it right on this one
As a previous poster pointed out, after but a few swings an edge goes dull. For this reason beheadings (by an axeman) in the old days weren't as quick as you would think and the neck was often just crushed and only partially cut off, hence the invention of the guillotine. "Fun Fact:" People used to "bribe" the executioner a few coins to sharpen their axe a bit so they died as quickly as possible.
A magically enchanted edge made to always be sharp is another story altogether though I guess...
My book on sword fighting in the SCA has numerous chapters (over 100 pages) on weapons physics.
http://www.spookyfx.com/book/tromp.html
The following is copyright martial from my book.
I will try to stick to the concepts of physics and not the precise units and math. It is very difficult to get some engineers and scientists to explain physics this way. However I dislike trying to use exact “units” as they can easily confuse a basically simple concept for some people. When you can find a way to eliminate the literal units and still be approximately correct it can be much easer to grasp the fundamental concept. Once this is done, then latter you can try to become more precise with the formulas.
Some people see the world in numbers, some in shapes. Some see the world a little both ways. It is possible to have complete comprehension using only formulas. But you will have great difficulty communicating to the other 2/3 of the world if that is your way. As Einstein once said "You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother."
The following is a VERY BRIEF and VERY SIMPLIFIED treatment on weapons physics. This is just to give you a very general idea of how weapon Length, Speed and Damage all balance out in the melee weapons.
Many people do not realize this, in general melee weapons are really just clubs.
Very after several blows are thrown at shields and armor the sharp edge on these weapons all but disappear.
Kinetic Energy is the important realm of physics when talking about Weapons with very high-speed movement such as arrows and bullets. However with slower moving heavy weapons; mass and velocity are basically of equal importance in determining the physical effects on the target and how the weapon “handles” while getting to the target.
Momentum = Mass x Velocity
Momentum is the property of a moving object to continue moving. It is the combination of mass and movement. A slow moving, very massive body and a rapid moving, light body can have the same momentum. Like energy momentum is neither created nor destroyed. It is only transported and/or transformed from one place to another or one state to another.
If your 1 pound dagger swings with 10 units of speed and your 10 pound mace swings with 1 unit of speed they will both result in about the same damage in the first moment of contact. However the heavy hammer is much harder to stop moving, so it continues to create damage in a slightly longer duration than the dagger.
Thus, in game like Oblivion 10 hits with a dagger should result in about the same damage as 1 hit with a mace (all other factors such as the quality of the steel being the same).
A heavy mass at rest will offer resistance to start movement. Once it is moving it will offer resistance to stop moving, This means that a weapon will start slowly and progress slowly to faster speeds when starting at rest from a dead stop. For a sword to reach optimum speed, a sufficient amount of distance must be traveled. This distance will be determined by such factors as the mass of the weapon, the mechanical leverage and the power applied to the weapon to accelerate the tip.
In games a 10 pound mace takes 10 times the "time" to complete a swing as a 1 pound dagger if all other factors are the same.
Using two hands on a weapon allows you to place the fulcrum and effort points of control further away from each other. This results in better control leverage and less effort in directing the weapons tip movement on very long or very top heavy weapons. Using only one hand on a weapon results in the fulcrum and effort control points being only a few inches away from each other.
However the one handed weapon has the freedom to swing much faster, thus producing more Impulse force when it hits.
The arms are primarily used to GUIDE the sword blow and act as the transmission device to bring power from the body into the target in the same way a ridding crop snaps out to move momentum from the large heavy base to the smaller lighter tip.
I first discovered this while doing kinetic energy tests with different weapons in the 1980s. I was amazed to discover that the kinetic energy from a two-handed weapon was not significantly higher than from a one-handed weapon of the same weight and length. This may be hard to understand, because most of your experience may tell you that you normally hit harder with a two-handed weapon. This is because most two-handed weapons have much more mass and a longer lever for a blade. And NOT because your second hand is contributing that much more power to the shot.
Remember that using two hands on a weapon allows you to place the fulcrum and effort points of control further away from each other. This extra control leverage contributes a great deal to better handling of the tip movement. However the extra pushing force just from the leverage is almost insignificant for impact because it is so slow. As such, on it’s own this additional (but slow) pushing force creates very poor impulse (less efficient transfer of force).
If the weapon is not very long or not very tip heavy, using 2 hands to wield that weapon is not the most efficient way to use your pair of hands. In fact it can even slow down the tip speed of some weapons unless you hold it with a “baseball” grip where your hands are touching each other. This is because your arms cannot move in opposite directions with enough agility to keep up with the possible final tip speed at the end of your weapon swing. This is not so much a problem with the longer 2 handed weapons such as the Claymore because the longer lever (from the fulcrum to the tip of the weapon) creates more than enough extra speed from the mechanical advantage to compensate for your second hand slowing down the effort side of the weapon.
If you have a short but top-heavy weapon you may choose to wield it either way depending on your desired results.
Two hands on this kind of weapon (such as a 2 handed AXE) will give you much more initial speed and weapon agility but will greatly slow down the final tip speed resulting in less impact. However this additional agility allows you to recover the weapon back into your ready position quicker and more accurately for defense and allows you to start your second shot sooner.
It is possible to slide one hand down into a baseball grip or switch from 2 hands to one hand in mid swing in order to try to trade a little more power for a little less agility and less recovery speed.
One hand on this kind of weapon (such as a MACE) will give you a greater final tip speed resulting in more impact force but you will loose agility and the return motion back into your ready position will be much slower. This could leave you open to a counter attack for a longer time and result in fewer number of attacks per second than would be possible if you were using 2 hands. It is possible to switch from one hand to two hands during the return to your ready position in order to try to gain some agility for defense. But the extra work required to place and remove the second hand will add more time to initiate the following one handed attack.
Many lay-people do not know this, but most real melee weapons must land several inches DOWN from the tip of the weapon (on the sweet spot) to hit effectively. On a faster moving weapons that use more speed than weight (like a sword) this is the CENTER OF PERCUSSION. On slower moving weapons that are top-heavy and use more weight than speed (like an axe or mace) it is the CENTER OF GRAVITY.
There is a heck of a lot more on the subject, but that is the boiled down version.
I am the author Duke Patrick's SCA MOD and some others.
You wrote:
This is just a Question. I like the idea of axes being with blades but I have spent hrs developing blunt. Is there any way that I can swap my blade skill with my blunt skill, because I would prefer not to console my blade up and make my level and strength and whatever else go up. I am not wanting to cheat and I thought it was rediculous that an axe was considered a blunt weapon. I would like to just flip flop the skills. Any help would be much apreciated!!!