It took me too long to notice that this mod was the cause of my game lagging and crashing so much. Been playing for like 20 hours, and then I went inside the Sandstone Cavern location, found a TON of mages, wisps, and werewolves, all fighting each other, and after a while the whole mess crashed my game everytime. Thankfully I THINK I managed to fix the issue by turning off the NPC variation esp, but I am scared this mod might cause more problems in the future, but I also dont wanna have to restart this playthrough and waste all the time I already put on it. Dont get me wrong, this mod does a lot of cool stuff, but the amount of stuff it does seems to be more than Oblivion can handle.
Oh, and dont get me started on how dirty the mod is. After cleaning it with TES4Edit it made such a big difference in stability.
this mod is a broken buggy mess and always has been, it caused many problems for me too. After uninstalling it and running with different overhaul mods like maskar's i have never crashed since. This mod was one of the main reasons for my game crashing every hour or less
BOSS notes which MMM esps should be cleaned & which shouldn't. These notes are not outdated, since MMM hasn't changed since BOSS was still being updated regularly. Do NOT use LOOT, since the person who does (or did) most of the work on that doesn't even use MMM and has no clue where these plugins are supposed to go, particularly in relation to various other overhaul mods. I've followed BOSS' suggestions for MMM for over 15 years and never had a problem.
The install instructions can get somewhat complicated depending on what other mods you might use, especially OOO. If the instructions on the MMM main page are followed precisely, it works wonderfully. (For MMM esps that aren't listed on the page or in BOSS, just use common sense, since MMM esps tell exactly what they do in the description in Wrye Bash, so it's very easy to fit them in where they should logically be placed in the load order.)
If a mod works perfectly for even one person, then it works period; obviously the complainers messed it up in terms of load order, or choosing the esps to use, or cleaning/not cleaning certain esps, so they rush to blame the mod when it their own fault entirely. You MUST use Wrye Bash's bashed patch for a huge overhaul like this. Any other mod organizer will most likely lead to disastrous results.
Pls explain me. How To Craft Arrows? Have tons of arrowheads looted from nps... and i want to use them. Nexus and Moddb have different explanation for this possibility. I can neither use crafting tools nor find Pelt Farm near Bruma. Help Please.
Odd, I installed this just earlier today and works fine. You trying to use Vortex for this or something? Lot of these Oblivion mods need to be manually downloaded and installed using WryeBash and cleaned with Tes4Edit, then sort load order and compatibility issues with BOSS/LOOT, lastly archive invalidation using your preferred method and then you good to go.
MMM works perfectly fine. Always has, and I use the vast majority of plug-ins that come with it. Maybe xilc oughta try actually reading the posts in here, before he rushes in to dramatically declare that a mod doesn't work, lol. Obviously you installed it incorrectly, and/or messed up the load order. If you don't take the time to set up a complex mod correctly, or read posts if you encounter problems, then you deserve the result you get.
If you get stuck at loading screen and are using OOO extended make sure that you are loading all MMM esps after it. Boss loaded it properly, LOOT did not, just a heads-up incase you use LOOT.
Not to disregard OPs issue and fix, but a caveat to this:
BOSS has not been updated in a very long time, its handling of MMM is not perfect either. I am not sure of when MMM was last updated in LOOTs master list, but from comparing both, LOOT for one has better cleaning instructions then BOSS for MMM (its the same as BOSS, recognising the plugins that should and shouldn't be cleaned while also recognising some others that BOSS did not pick up) It should also be noted that newer plugins like 'MMM for OOO shivering' is not even recognised by BOSS.
LOOT does load oooext.esp after mmmforooo.esp , though i have never had any issue with this.
I keep BOSS around but take the information it gives me with a heavy grain of salt.
In regards to this particular large and complex mod with so many modules, i would not put my trust completely in any automatic ordering (I would not recommended definitively to follow either LOOT or BOSS to the letter), but to see what works with your load order and what is working for other people.
LOOT makes radical, often godawful choices that will destroy load orders, and it is virtually worthless with Oblivion. I've checked it out and it stunningly wrecked my hand-sorted order that took me years to arrive at, to such an extent that the game wouldn't even start. If you have a full order, it's not even close to accurate. People tend to assume that if they're using relatively newer mods that LOOT lists but BOSS doesn't, LOOT will place them correctly just because it recognizes them. Not necessarily. It's made countless mistakes on both old & new mods to the extent that I'll never bother with it again.
The problem is that theoretically a mod may look like it'll go in a general spot in the order, so a lazy LOOT contributor puts it there permanently -- without bothering to test whether it will conflict in that spot with other mods that do similar things. On the very rare occasion a LOOT order will work, it's only because certain plugins can go in different spots w/o causing problems, and that person is primarily using those, so LOOT's haphazard order might work. But if you're using several major overhauls and other semi-complex mods, and/or you're using a lot of mods, LOOT will explode & destroy your game like a nuclear bomb.
By contrast, BOSS contributors back in the day did a lot of the *necessary* testing to check mod combinations out fully, and their load order choices still hold up today, for the most part. BOSS is the way to go for a general order idea, but common sense & experimentation are essential. Someone who thinks they can simply press a button & have a program auto-sort hundreds of mods with no problems is an ignoramus destined for endless CTDs. You have to experiment yourself with the order of almost every significant new mod you add, to make sure it's working properly all around in-game, though that becomes much less tedious over time as you grasp the logic of where various types of mods go in the order & what bash tags are needed that might not be there by default.
With MMM, the description on the main page is the best way to go, since BOSS' order of it is a bit unusual. I used BOSS' order of MMM for years, but it's not really sensible based on MMM's own explanation of where the esps go & the logic behind it. I reordered the plugins according to how the MMM description says they should be, and I'm confident that's the best way. The one aspect of BOSS' order that I kept intact was to put the mod Creature Diversity directly above MMM's Diverse Creature Expansion. It looks odd mixed in with the MMM esps, but someone must've had a reason for putting it there years ago. If you try sorting MMM with LOOT, good luck, since it will massacre the order, separating many of the esps, like whoever did that doesn't even understand what MMM is. The OOO Extended mistake, for example, just goes to show that somebody is too lazy to check out mod compatibility for mods he doesn't personally use.
BTW, you can combine some of the plugins to save load space: Farm Animals, Waterlife, and Hunting & Crafting, all of which take up active slots, can be merged into 1 esp with no problems that I've ever noticed, and I've done a lot of testing (don't forget to add the appropriate bash tags to the merged esp.) That esp has to go above any spawn rate plugin you might be using, as do *any* plugins which add or change creatures. Also More Wilderness & Extra Wounding can be merged, which has to go below the spawn rate plugin. But don't try to add 'Additional Enemy Variants" or 'Diverse Creatures Expansion' in; they don't work merged, and don't combine any plug-ins that are already mergeable (in green), obviously, since that's pointless. And don't use City Defenses at all, since the guards' AI gets wildly messed up when also using city wall-changing mods like Better Cities. All the guards are on the ground instead of the walls, perpetually walking into walls all over towns. Also, skip the MMM Dungeon esp; it's a very outdated dungeon that takes up 2 esp slots with UL patch & isn't worth it.
The advice above by songlife is solid, i have also had success with similar merges.
Despite the impassioned plea for BOSS which im sympathetic to, to a point, if you are struggling with the load order, i still just recommend LOOT to sort it.
There is no getting around the fact that BOSS is not updated. So no matter the shortcomings of LOOT, its still the one being updated and monitored, you can go talk to the people maintaining it, last time i checked it was Disp who was handling the masterlist and those seem like pretty patient, careful hands.
songlife is an experienced modder and takes time examining each mod, but not everyone is savvy enough to manage by hand their load order or can examine conflicts in Xedit and make their own bashed patch, or make sense of old BOSS entries when it does not recognize 90% of their load order.
If in doubt, just use LOOT, it will be fine. It will not be perfect though, and if you do run into an issue with the load order you wont be able to diagnose it easily, but the other option is to spend alot more time getting to know the ins and outs of the mods.
So I was having problems with missing meshes/textures. Imperial road watchmen and Nibenean soldiers had invisible torsos. And when hit, enemies would turn dark green for a while and stay dark green when dead. Pretty sure they were supposed to be blood-splattered, not green.
I learned that this was probably due to missing art that the newest versions of MMM don't have but are still reliant upon, which seems weird and unlikely, but results don't lie. I read that and its proposed fix here: https://web.archive.org/web/20120714071736/http://devnull.sweetdanger.net/convergence.html
So I uninstalled 3.8 and 3.8 BSA. Then installed 355 (OMOD). Then reinstalled 3.8 and 3.8 BSA. And finally, deactivated 355 (but did not delete) so the resources are still being called upon but the .esps aren't active and therefore won't conflict, supposedly. This completely fixed the two above issues for me. MMM 355 is here: https://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/14442
Alternatively, you could figure out how to take the data files from the 355 OMOD so you can install them with your preferred method instead and without having to worry about the .esps, but that has it's own set of headaches unless you know what you're doing.
Since 3.8 comes with Slofs Horses "complete", I assumed I wouldn't need the original mod. I was wrong. Invisible horses with visible armor is funny though. The readme says not to run Slof's horse plugins with MMM's horse plugins simultaneously, but I haven't had any trouble running both so far, and that's what fixed my invisible horses. At the very least, you probably need the data files from the original mod.
All that said, I still have yellow wtf markers where MMM's extra farm animals and diverse waterlife should be. They just don't work at all for me. So the old textures couldn't fix everything. Of course, I'm attempting an FCOM setup, so I may have just effed up somewhere.
If you are installing the most up to date versions of ooo and extended and following a recent guide (like Dispensations), and then following the MMM install instructions correctly (renaming BSA etc etc), and then installing MOO on top of that (if you so wish), you should not be getting CTDs and you should not be getting missing torsos or invisible creatures. This is not speaking for any oddities or other smaller bugs that may crop up.
Ive seen a few posts having these issues so i thought id give some testimony to this mods ..."workingness".
Do not run any other horse armor mods if you're using MMM's Slof plugins. The exception is, you need to use DLC Horse Armor if you're using MMM's plugin that puts steel armor on horses, because it's reliant on the DLC. No need to install the original Slofs; the resources for that are within MMM's bsa.
As for yellow markers, you installed MMM wrong. Slofs, Waterlife, & Farm Animals work fine. You have to follow MMM's install instructions very carefully, especially about changing the BSA name depending on what plugins you're using. That would most likely be why you needed the original Slofs; in-game you are not seeing MMM's version at all, only the original Slof's that you installed. MMM is apparently not reading the MMM BSA since you didn't change the name correctly. You don't need Slof's at all for MMM, and if you do, then you did something wrong.
Currently using the reduced reduced spawn plugin, but I'm seeing huge bandit warband's sometimes occupying certain area's of the game along with their guard dog's (as in nearly a dozen bandit's, not counting the dogs) in both exteriors and interiors. I have only these Mart's files enabled and in this order; Mart's Monster Mod for OOO.esp Mart's Monster Mod for OOO - Knights .esp Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Creatures Expansion.esp Mart's Monster Mod - Spawn Rates - Reduced Reduced.esp Mart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.esp Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp
I also have the Obscuro plugins loaded before all the Mart ones in this order; Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul - Knights of Nine.esp OOOExtended.esp
I then have Maskars loaded at the very end my load order.
Is there some conflict I must resolve, via rearranging my load order, or can I modify some aspect of Maskar's ini fie to be better suit my needs between both mart's and ooo? As apparently the author of Maskar's claims can be used as a framework between the two.
That patch is old use the one from the Cobl 174 mod "02 DevTweaks (Only install one)" Cobl Tweaks - MMM, v172 + v.esp FYI Loot and Boss have difficulties to sort this so just stick it where the original Cobl Twks - MMM.esp was.
Very strange. I have a mod, esp and esm are connected. But there is nothing in the game! There are no new monsters at all!The mod doesn't seem to work. I don't understand what's the matter.In addition to esp and esm, nothing else is worth from this mod. Is it a conflict with something else? I do not understand. The game doesn't crash.
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Been playing for like 20 hours, and then I went inside the Sandstone Cavern location, found a TON of mages, wisps, and werewolves, all fighting each other, and after a while the whole mess crashed my game everytime.
Thankfully I THINK I managed to fix the issue by turning off the NPC variation esp, but I am scared this mod might cause more problems in the future, but I also dont wanna have to restart this playthrough and waste all the time I already put on it.
Dont get me wrong, this mod does a lot of cool stuff, but the amount of stuff it does seems to be more than Oblivion can handle.
Oh, and dont get me started on how dirty the mod is. After cleaning it with TES4Edit it made such a big difference in stability.
The install instructions can get somewhat complicated depending on what other mods you might use, especially OOO. If the instructions on the MMM main page are followed precisely, it works wonderfully. (For MMM esps that aren't listed on the page or in BOSS, just use common sense, since MMM esps tell exactly what they do in the description in Wrye Bash, so it's very easy to fit them in where they should logically be placed in the load order.)
If a mod works perfectly for even one person, then it works period; obviously the complainers messed it up in terms of load order, or choosing the esps to use, or cleaning/not cleaning certain esps, so they rush to blame the mod when it their own fault entirely. You MUST use Wrye Bash's bashed patch for a huge overhaul like this. Any other mod organizer will most likely lead to disastrous results.
How To Craft Arrows?
Have tons of arrowheads looted from nps... and i want to use them.
Nexus and Moddb have different explanation for this possibility. I can neither use crafting tools nor find Pelt Farm near Bruma.
Help Please.
Click to see mod list
The game TES IV: Oblivion is not organic matter. It does not degrade.
If a mod worked in 2008 then it will work in 2023.
tldr;
As of Jan 2023, this mod still works fine
BOSS has not been updated in a very long time, its handling of MMM is not perfect either.
I am not sure of when MMM was last updated in LOOTs master list, but from comparing both, LOOT for one has better cleaning instructions then BOSS for MMM (its the same as BOSS, recognising the plugins that should and shouldn't be cleaned while also recognising some others that BOSS did not pick up)
It should also be noted that newer plugins like 'MMM for OOO shivering' is not even recognised by BOSS.
LOOT does load oooext.esp after mmmforooo.esp , though i have never had any issue with this.
I keep BOSS around but take the information it gives me with a heavy grain of salt.
In regards to this particular large and complex mod with so many modules, i would not put my trust completely in any automatic ordering (I would not recommended definitively to follow either LOOT or BOSS to the letter), but to see what works with your load order and what is working for other people.
The problem is that theoretically a mod may look like it'll go in a general spot in the order, so a lazy LOOT contributor puts it there permanently -- without bothering to test whether it will conflict in that spot with other mods that do similar things. On the very rare occasion a LOOT order will work, it's only because certain plugins can go in different spots w/o causing problems, and that person is primarily using those, so LOOT's haphazard order might work. But if you're using several major overhauls and other semi-complex mods, and/or you're using a lot of mods, LOOT will explode & destroy your game like a nuclear bomb.
By contrast, BOSS contributors back in the day did a lot of the *necessary* testing to check mod combinations out fully, and their load order choices still hold up today, for the most part. BOSS is the way to go for a general order idea, but common sense & experimentation are essential. Someone who thinks they can simply press a button & have a program auto-sort hundreds of mods with no problems is an ignoramus destined for endless CTDs. You have to experiment yourself with the order of almost every significant new mod you add, to make sure it's working properly all around in-game, though that becomes much less tedious over time as you grasp the logic of where various types of mods go in the order & what bash tags are needed that might not be there by default.
With MMM, the description on the main page is the best way to go, since BOSS' order of it is a bit unusual. I used BOSS' order of MMM for years, but it's not really sensible based on MMM's own explanation of where the esps go & the logic behind it. I reordered the plugins according to how the MMM description says they should be, and I'm confident that's the best way. The one aspect of BOSS' order that I kept intact was to put the mod Creature Diversity directly above MMM's Diverse Creature Expansion. It looks odd mixed in with the MMM esps, but someone must've had a reason for putting it there years ago. If you try sorting MMM with LOOT, good luck, since it will massacre the order, separating many of the esps, like whoever did that doesn't even understand what MMM is. The OOO Extended mistake, for example, just goes to show that somebody is too lazy to check out mod compatibility for mods he doesn't personally use.
BTW, you can combine some of the plugins to save load space: Farm Animals, Waterlife, and Hunting & Crafting, all of which take up active slots, can be merged into 1 esp with no problems that I've ever noticed, and I've done a lot of testing (don't forget to add the appropriate bash tags to the merged esp.) That esp has to go above any spawn rate plugin you might be using, as do *any* plugins which add or change creatures. Also More Wilderness & Extra Wounding can be merged, which has to go below the spawn rate plugin. But don't try to add 'Additional Enemy Variants" or 'Diverse Creatures Expansion' in; they don't work merged, and don't combine any plug-ins that are already mergeable (in green), obviously, since that's pointless. And don't use City Defenses at all, since the guards' AI gets wildly messed up when also using city wall-changing mods like Better Cities. All the guards are on the ground instead of the walls, perpetually walking into walls all over towns. Also, skip the MMM Dungeon esp; it's a very outdated dungeon that takes up 2 esp slots with UL patch & isn't worth it.
The advice above by songlife is solid, i have also had success with similar merges.
Despite the impassioned plea for BOSS which im sympathetic to, to a point, if you are struggling with the load order, i still just recommend LOOT to sort it.
There is no getting around the fact that BOSS is not updated. So no matter the shortcomings of LOOT, its still the one being updated and monitored, you can go talk to the people maintaining it, last time i checked it was Disp who was handling the masterlist and those seem like pretty patient, careful hands.
songlife is an experienced modder and takes time examining each mod, but not everyone is savvy enough to manage by hand their load order or can examine conflicts in Xedit and make their own bashed patch, or make sense of old BOSS entries when it does not recognize 90% of their load order.
If in doubt, just use LOOT, it will be fine. It will not be perfect though, and if you do run into an issue with the load order you wont be able to diagnose it easily, but the other option is to spend alot more time getting to know the ins and outs of the mods.
So I was having problems with missing meshes/textures. Imperial road watchmen and Nibenean soldiers had invisible torsos. And when hit, enemies would turn dark green for a while and stay dark green when dead. Pretty sure they were supposed to be blood-splattered, not green.
I learned that this was probably due to missing art that the newest versions of MMM don't have but are still reliant upon, which seems weird and unlikely, but results don't lie. I read that and its proposed fix here:
https://web.archive.org/web/20120714071736/http://devnull.sweetdanger.net/convergence.html
So I uninstalled 3.8 and 3.8 BSA. Then installed 355 (OMOD). Then reinstalled 3.8 and 3.8 BSA. And finally, deactivated 355 (but did not delete) so the resources are still being called upon but the .esps aren't active and therefore won't conflict, supposedly. This completely fixed the two above issues for me. MMM 355 is here: https://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/14442
Alternatively, you could figure out how to take the data files from the 355 OMOD so you can install them with your preferred method instead and without having to worry about the .esps, but that has it's own set of headaches unless you know what you're doing.
Since 3.8 comes with Slofs Horses "complete", I assumed I wouldn't need the original mod. I was wrong. Invisible horses with visible armor is funny though. The readme says not to run Slof's horse plugins with MMM's horse plugins simultaneously, but I haven't had any trouble running both so far, and that's what fixed my invisible horses. At the very least, you probably need the data files from the original mod.
All that said, I still have yellow wtf markers where MMM's extra farm animals and diverse waterlife should be. They just don't work at all for me. So the old textures couldn't fix everything. Of course, I'm attempting an FCOM setup, so I may have just effed up somewhere.
Good Luck
If you are installing the most up to date versions of ooo and extended and following a recent guide (like Dispensations), and then following the MMM install instructions correctly (renaming BSA etc etc), and then installing MOO on top of that (if you so wish), you should not be getting CTDs and you should not be getting missing torsos or invisible creatures. This is not speaking for any oddities or other smaller bugs that may crop up.
Ive seen a few posts having these issues so i thought id give some testimony to this mods ..."workingness".
As for yellow markers, you installed MMM wrong. Slofs, Waterlife, & Farm Animals work fine. You have to follow MMM's install instructions very carefully, especially about changing the BSA name depending on what plugins you're using. That would most likely be why you needed the original Slofs; in-game you are not seeing MMM's version at all, only the original Slof's that you installed. MMM is apparently not reading the MMM BSA since you didn't change the name correctly. You don't need Slof's at all for MMM, and if you do, then you did something wrong.
Mart's Monster Mod for OOO.esp
Mart's Monster Mod for OOO - Knights .esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Creatures Expansion.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Spawn Rates - Reduced Reduced.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp
I also have the Obscuro plugins loaded before all the Mart ones in this order;
Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp
Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul - Knights of Nine.esp
OOOExtended.esp
I then have Maskars loaded at the very end my load order.
Is there some conflict I must resolve, via rearranging my load order, or can I modify some aspect of Maskar's ini fie to be better suit my needs between both mart's and ooo? As apparently the author of Maskar's claims can be used as a framework between the two.
"(COBL) MMM-Cobl requires MMM v27 Beta 4. (You have a version prior to v1.37 Beta 5). Please upgrade or uninstall this patch."
I'm using version 3.8, which is the latest version on this site. What gives?
FYI Loot and Boss have difficulties to sort this so just stick it where the original Cobl Twks - MMM.esp was.