If th3t3rribl3on3 is still working on this, I just want to show some support for the ideas I read in some of the most recent posts. Granted, they're a few months old, but who's to say real life didn't just get in the way for a little while?
To be honest, I already collect dishrags, soap, toothbrushes and toothpaste as a sort of self-imposed roleplay thing. I carry a lot of dead weight like tools I specifically don't use for crafting unless absolutely necessary, and of course hygiene items when I can find them (it blows my mind that actual towels aren't a cloth-component Junk item.). I like realism mechanics quite a bit, and I use a handful of mods to nerf my character in an effort to make daily survival, even uneventful days, a bit more challenging (lower starting SPECIALs, lower carry weight, fewer loot and ammo spawns, etc).
Thinking of the possibilities in seeing this idea expanded make me really happy and I hope we'll see craftable toiletries and some version of the daily upkeep mechanics mentioned below (maybe the debuffs should max out at -3?). Maybe a +1 maximum each for brushing+washing (daily max being +2 CHA total), but the debuffs I imagine could stop at -3 for folks who don't tend to focus on CHA? I'd actually really enjoy a version where the items only provided 0.5, and would need to be used together for a max combined daily bonus of +1, but if used alone, would prevent a(nother) potential -1 debuff from stacking. I'd have fun using that as incentive to explore new areas. Food and water are so plentiful in survival that I could do with some added complexity there.
Say my character has only been able to find one bar of soap and enough toothpaste to brush twice - If I needed to, I could prevent CHA debuffs for three days in a row by using one of the items each morning, or use two items together to get my +1 if I run into a trader, with one item left over to maintain 'neutral' CHA for tomorrow's adventure.
As it stands, I fail to see why I ought to play with this mod active. I like the general idea, but there is no (or little) incentive to go along with this. Allow me to explain: .Firstly, +4 Charisma is something of an exaggeration IMHO (an opinion shared by others, it would seem). A +2 would be far easier to justify. .Secondly, if being dirty caused me to lose 2 points of Charisma, I'd certainly be motivated to clean up my act! A character with 1 Charisma would devolve to 0, I suppose, as it is somewhat difficult to imagine -1 Charisma in anything but a joke. .Thirdly, having to make a trip to a store that may or may not have soap and toothpaste in stock (and in what quantities, one wonders? If stocks allowed, I'd buy a month's supply, at least!) is a drag. Now, if we were capable of making our own (note that toothpaste doesn't necessarily have to come in a compressible tube), that would be convenient and much more fun. Besides, for once, both items should be produces at the alchemy workshop!
Soap is animal fat (usually) or some oil added to lye (ashes left in water for some time); there is oil, ashes and water in the game while some plants could be added for scent (hubflowers?). Toothpaste is basically a gentle abrasive (such as sodium bicarbonate, or very finely ground bone meal as a substitute), turned into a paste (adding fat would do that, such as shortening) and a strong flavour such as essence of mint (or mutfruit; nobody knows what that tastes like, so this is to your advantage. It's a fruity flavour. Good enough, no?). In any case, if you should ever allow for the production of soap and toothpaste, steps should be taken to insure that sufficient resources are available in game. For example, I mentioned shortening which is a rare product; it can be produced using oil and a beater but then again oil is also a very uncommon resource. Oil can be extracted from corn by pressing it. Which would leave you to figure out the 'beater' and 'press' parts out should you opt to adopt my suggestions in part or in whole. Happy modding!
I did not mean the above as harsh criticism. On the contrary, I'm very interested in the idea you've put forth, just not in the form you chose for it. With respectful regards, Yappy118
I also like the idea of craftable soap and toothpaste (and really I don't imagine a washcloth or toothbrush is that hard to make, either). I also wouldn't mind a full conversion of junk soap/toothpaste to aid items rather than junk. I've seen it done with smoking mods, in which all cigarettes and cigars are converted to be aid items rather than junk; and I imagine it can't have gone that bad, even after 200 years.
I also like the suggestion of making the player take a penalty for NOT bathing/brushing rather than conferring a bonus for doing so. Certainly people can survive off water baths alone, but I imagine in a post-nuclear survival situation that things might be a little different. Perhaps adding the ability to bathe without soap to negate the penalty of being "stinky", but conferring a small bonus for using soap?
Also, completely ignoring dental hygiene can lead to dire consequences! Receding gums, plaque buildup, cavities, you name it! I imagine not brushing one's teeth would lead to significant penalties, while brushing consistently could confer some small bonus. Also, there are alternatives to traditional toothbrush/toothpaste (arak twigs spring to mind).
Just my two cents. I'm still really excited to try out this mod!
Here's a very humble idea I got for this mod, what about you make the Player addicted to the Soap & Toothpaste while the addiction will penalty their Charisma, this way the Players will now have to take care of their hygiene! If you can add this, it will add so much more immersion for me. Thanks!
Seconding this. Just put chance of addiction to 100% after using soap, withdrawal of 24 hours with an effect of -2 and we're ready to go. It makes more sense for people to notice that you're dirty.
I'm extending these withdrawal mechanics and have some additional ideas to run by you.
If I could make the withdrawal effects of not washing stack per day, so that the first day you didn't wash was -1 Cha and the second day was -2 Cha, should it go so far as to temporarily reduce your Cha all the way to 0 if you go long enough without washing?
If I can also grant permanent Cha bonuses for long term hygiene, by making a quest that keeps track of use, how many total uses of an item should equate to a permanent +1 Cha bonus? For example, if the player separately applies a temporary +2 Cha bonus 30 times, which would mean 30 separate 24 hour periods, that would represent about a month of regular hygiene and the quest would grant a +1 permanent Cha bonus while the regular soap continues to work to apply a temporary bonus. Keep in mind that I don't think the game allows Special points to be removed once they're applied so permanently reducing Cha for not washing long term may not be possible, but the temporary reduction could be increased as time passed.
I uploaded a new file, NMM may not show that the previous file is outdated. The new file corrects the display images in the inventory menus, and moves the Toothbrush and Wash Rag to the Misc Inventory instead of the Junk inventory. I had to make new objects for this so you will need to get the new versions from DC Surplus, and the Junk toothbrush will not work with toothpaste to apply the charisma benefit. The Misc toothbrush and Wash Rag will also not be scrapped or used as Junk Jet ammo.
The first rule of Fight Club is you do not talk about Fight Club. The second rule of Fight Club is you do not talk about Fight Club. And the third rule is ...
Forgot to mention that there is a way to put these two items in the world via random loot, altho I don't know if they really fit the medicine category . With that said, you would, again, have to rename the items and give them some sort of unique world models to distinct them from generic soap and toothpaste that we use for junk. This sounds like a hassle, so once again, I advise you to just create a "Hygiene bag" consumable from the 4 items you can construct in a chemistry workbench.
Thanks for all the feedback. I contemplated making it possible to craft the items but instead I'm going to make them very rare items, like the Shampoo in the movie The Book of Eli. Renaming them is a good idea, but I thought it wouldn't be necessary because the Soap and Toothpaste from this mod show up in the Aid menu instead of the Junk menu as the vanilla soap and toothpaste. I don't think I'll get rid of the Cloth Rag and Toothbrush links, but would it be less annoying if I made a different Cloth Rag and Toothbrush which also showed up in the Aid menu? Some sort of hygiene bag might also be a good idea but I couldn't think of "consumable" things to put in the bag except Soap, Toothpaste and Shampoo (Soap, Soap and Soap), so I could add things like tweezers and such but what would they actually "do" in the game?
Degrading the effect over time is a good idea but I'm not sure how I would do it. I'll look into it. I'm not sure what you mean by having it stack to 3, three times a day, can you elaborate?
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To be honest, I already collect dishrags, soap, toothbrushes and toothpaste as a sort of self-imposed roleplay thing. I carry a lot of dead weight like tools I specifically don't use for crafting unless absolutely necessary, and of course hygiene items when I can find them (it blows my mind that actual towels aren't a cloth-component Junk item.). I like realism mechanics quite a bit, and I use a handful of mods to nerf my character in an effort to make daily survival, even uneventful days, a bit more challenging (lower starting SPECIALs, lower carry weight, fewer loot and ammo spawns, etc).
Thinking of the possibilities in seeing this idea expanded make me really happy and I hope we'll see craftable toiletries and some version of the daily upkeep mechanics mentioned below (maybe the debuffs should max out at -3?). Maybe a +1 maximum each for brushing+washing (daily max being +2 CHA total), but the debuffs I imagine could stop at -3 for folks who don't tend to focus on CHA? I'd actually really enjoy a version where the items only provided 0.5, and would need to be used together for a max combined daily bonus of +1, but if used alone, would prevent a(nother) potential -1 debuff from stacking. I'd have fun using that as incentive to explore new areas. Food and water are so plentiful in survival that I could do with some added complexity there.
Say my character has only been able to find one bar of soap and enough toothpaste to brush twice - If I needed to, I could prevent CHA debuffs for three days in a row by using one of the items each morning, or use two items together to get my +1 if I run into a trader, with one item left over to maintain 'neutral' CHA for tomorrow's adventure.
.Firstly, +4 Charisma is something of an exaggeration IMHO (an opinion shared by others, it would seem). A +2 would be far easier to justify.
.Secondly, if being dirty caused me to lose 2 points of Charisma, I'd certainly be motivated to clean up my act! A character with 1 Charisma would devolve to 0, I suppose, as it is somewhat difficult to imagine -1 Charisma in anything but a joke.
.Thirdly, having to make a trip to a store that may or may not have soap and toothpaste in stock (and in what quantities, one wonders? If stocks allowed, I'd buy a month's supply, at least!) is a drag. Now, if we were capable of making our own (note that toothpaste doesn't necessarily have to come in a compressible tube), that would be convenient and much more fun. Besides, for once, both items should be produces at the alchemy workshop!
Soap is animal fat (usually) or some oil added to lye (ashes left in water for some time); there is oil, ashes and water in the game while some plants could be added for scent (hubflowers?). Toothpaste is basically a gentle abrasive (such as sodium bicarbonate, or very finely ground bone meal as a substitute), turned into a paste (adding fat would do that, such as shortening) and a strong flavour such as essence of mint (or mutfruit; nobody knows what that tastes like, so this is to your advantage. It's a fruity flavour. Good enough, no?). In any case, if you should ever allow for the production of soap and toothpaste, steps should be taken to insure that sufficient resources are available in game. For example, I mentioned shortening which is a rare product; it can be produced using oil and a beater but then again oil is also a very uncommon resource. Oil can be extracted from corn by pressing it. Which would leave you to figure out the 'beater' and 'press' parts out should you opt to adopt my suggestions in part or in whole. Happy modding!
I did not mean the above as harsh criticism. On the contrary, I'm very interested in the idea you've put forth, just not in the form you chose for it.
With respectful regards,
Yappy118
I also like the suggestion of making the player take a penalty for NOT bathing/brushing rather than conferring a bonus for doing so. Certainly people can survive off water baths alone, but I imagine in a post-nuclear survival situation that things might be a little different. Perhaps adding the ability to bathe without soap to negate the penalty of being "stinky", but conferring a small bonus for using soap?
Also, completely ignoring dental hygiene can lead to dire consequences! Receding gums, plaque buildup, cavities, you name it! I imagine not brushing one's teeth would lead to significant penalties, while brushing consistently could confer some small bonus. Also, there are alternatives to traditional toothbrush/toothpaste (arak twigs spring to mind).
Just my two cents. I'm still really excited to try out this mod!
I wish I could go from a 6 to a 10 in real life just because I brushed my teeth.
I think what people notice depends on what they're used to, so in a society where everyone is dirty it would stand out more if someone is clean.
If I could make the withdrawal effects of not washing stack per day, so that the first day you didn't wash was -1 Cha and the second day was -2 Cha, should it go so far as to temporarily reduce your Cha all the way to 0 if you go long enough without washing?
If I can also grant permanent Cha bonuses for long term hygiene, by making a quest that keeps track of use, how many total uses of an item should equate to a permanent +1 Cha bonus? For example, if the player separately applies a temporary +2 Cha bonus 30 times, which would mean 30 separate 24 hour periods, that would represent about a month of regular hygiene and the quest would grant a +1 permanent Cha bonus while the regular soap continues to work to apply a temporary bonus. Keep in mind that I don't think the game allows Special points to be removed once they're applied so permanently reducing Cha for not washing long term may not be possible, but the temporary reduction could be increased as time passed.
The second rule of Fight Club is you do not talk about Fight Club.
And the third rule is ...
tyler's gone away.