What about the raised sea levels, shouldn't the various continents be smaller? I'm not that familiar with FO4 lore but it seems like a thermonuclear war would add to global warming. Then again a thermonuclear winter would counteract it but Fallout always seem to consist of deserts and not snow and I guess a thermonuclear winter would still show its effects after only 200 years?
Global warming is a farce. We are actually in the beginning of an ice age. Ice ages happen when the Sun goes long periods without sunspots. That is exactly what is happening at this time in history.
Most U.N. countries agree climate change and global warming are real, even the United States administration's own research (though they denied their own research). Also sunspots are a reduction in heat. More sunspots means less heat. So that's not correlated. But the fact that the Fallout world never switched wholeheartedly to renewable energy does mean that they should've experienced some significant climate change events, including larger hurricanes, wildfires, glacier melting, and higher sea levels (hey sounds familiar). So a map with reduced land mass with water over coastal or low-lying regions would actually be more technically accurate to the world (though I'm doubtful Bethesda would've been willing to make this supposedly controversial call). They are a rather pro-American company. This also I think reinforces the idea that the Mediterranean very likely still had water in the Fallout world. While it would be hard to say what effect global thermonuclear war in the Fallout world would've done to the sea level, ironically the absence of humanity probably would've been the best thing to happen to the climate in regard to sea levels, you know, aside from the nuclear devastation.
One counterpoint to all of that though, Fallout clearly doesn't use real-world science. The science of the '50's is reality in the Fallout world, just look at how they thought radiation worked. Therefore, you could argue sea levels wouldn't have risen because that's just not how science works in that world. Still though, they knew fossil fuels could cause damage, and the wasteland is the epitome of it. I could see the sea levels risen being justified. Possibly even having receded in the 200 years since the war back to the normal state thanks to humanity's disappearance.
So, where do you get all the information of the Fallout world to translate it to a map? I understand the big differences such as the USSR being still present, and all the talk here about Mediterranean being drained was stated in the Fallout Bible, but what about all the other changed borders, such as the changes in South America and Africa? I trust you know what you're talking about, and I've already downloaded the mod, but what are your sources? This got me interested and I want to learn more about the Fallout universe now.
Most information of the Fallout world before the war outside of America is hard to come by. Much of it is not known. What is known is that the United States annexed Canada and Mexico. Canada became an incorporated commonwealth of America shortly before the Great War, but Mexico remained an militarized territory. The European Commonwealth was one large country that dissolved during the Resource Wars shortly before the Great War. One major difference in the Fallout world was the fate of the two major Communist countries. In our world, the Soviet Union became the major opponent of the United States, with China struggling to keep up (because Mao starved his people.) In the Fallout world, instead China far outpaces the Soviet Union, with the Soviet Union essentially just being China's wing-man. This is because the Fallout world is a projection of the fears of America in the '50's. At the time, the Soviet Union was an unlikely ally for the United States, but China was something far scarier in their minds. Therefore in Fallout that fear became exacerbated, with China becoming the major opponent. It makes sense then that China's landmass would've expanded. Since we know they fought a war in Alaska, it stands to reason they siphoned off territory from the Soviet Union. The fates of any other countries is unfortunately not well documented. With a map like this, the mod author naturally had to improvise, due to the lack of complete information in the apocalypse.
A comparison of vanilla versus your map would be good. I don't spend enough time staring at the maps on the globes in-game to know what they look like.
There really is no need, the vanilla map is the exact same as a normal 2015 political map. If you want to see what the vanilla map looks like, all you have to do is search for political world map, as it's no different.
I just did it and going back and forth trying to see a difference between the two is a pain. Literally all you need to do is add the image, it's more of a pain doing this rather than simply uploading a single picture to see the difference. Even the vanilla map would be nice to see just to compare it easier as world and political maps have all sorts of BS on them. It'd be nice to see the original vs the new.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Literally what I was thinking :| I'm a Geography and History teacher, if you can't tell the difference between this new map and our real map, please open up a Geography or History text
Ar7ifc1al's request was not an unreasonable one, people. Part of the reason he was asking is because the mod author's description was so short. I personally was confused by which map was which, because this mod portrays two alternate world maps, both are modded in origin, which are different from the one in the game, which are different from the one in real life. The confusion is understandable, especially to people who never looked close enough at the map to realize it wasn't actually our own. Apparently the vanilla map is like a 2015 map but with an error of the Mediterranean not being filled in blue. If it truly was intentional, we probably would've heard about the Alantropa project completed, don't you think? Not to mention the devastation that would cause.
The idea of draining the Mediterranean comes right out of the alternate reality set out in the book by Philip K. Dick The Man in the High Castle. (Adolf Hitler, still alive, has nevertheless long-since succumbed to syphilitic incapacitation. Chancellor Martin Bormann has assumed power as Führer of Germany in his place. Bormann has, by now, created a colonial empire to increase Germany's Lebensraum by using technology to drain the Mediterranean Sea and convert it into farmland (see Atlantropa). The real world idea came from Atlantropa, also referred to as Panropa,[1] was a gigantic engineering and colonization idea devised by the German architect Herman Sörgel in the 1920s and promoted by him until his death in 1952. Its central feature was a hydroelectric dam to be built across the Strait of Gibraltar, which would have provided enormous amounts of hydroelectricity, it was also stuped and insane and one of the reasons I will only download the non-drained version as that it has no real inclusion in the Fallout word given that the Nazi’s still lost the War and it was a Nazi idea of after war dream plans. After the Second World War, interest was piqued again as the Western Allies sought to create closer bonds with Africa and combat communism, but the invention of nuclear power, the cost of rebuilding, and the end of colonialism left Atlantropa technologically unnecessary and politically unfeasible.
I also want to point out that geologist have thought for several decades that the Mediterranean has been drained at least once before, about 5 MYA. That might have inspired the Fallout choice too.
Yea, idk why you assumed that was the only explanation for what was being depicted... If we are on the way towards an ice age, for example, or if water became in high demand, these things could also lead to lower sea levels. In fact, even over population could create a demand for more land, causing ideals like draining the med to be reconsidered...
Idk why the med being drained is most unsettling to you out of all the changes depicted. lol.
Also, for the record, your beloved EU is working on creating a Mediterranean Union, so once that happens, it will be perfectly sensible to drain the med itself to connect the two areas, purely because Europe is not big enough to house all the North Africans which will be coming once they are given free travel to do so... EU/MU will need to expand their geographic territories, which will mean not only forcefully including the Eastern block, and eventually Russian territory, but draining the Med or something could be a less violent alternative for the new Europeans that are replacing your civilization...
I think the Mediterranean Sea was drained for water resources, which was kind of scarce. In Fallout lore, it's said the Resource Wars begun due to wars about essential resources, like water, food and energy, so much is that, small nations went to failure in 2050's to 2070's. Only the idea to drain Mediterranean came to "The Man in High Castle", however, in Fallout, the reasons are different.
Couldn't really find any info on this. But why is the USSR only Russia basically? And couldn't find any info on China invading the USSR either... Thx for info in advance!
Vanilla maps show the Mediterranean as land. European countries, in desperation for resources, must have drained the Mediterranean in search for oil and habitation.
Europe is harder to define since it's only mentioned in the Fallout Bible which is not technically canon. All we really know about it is that it was one state (unlike the EU which is comprised of still-sovereign states), and Britain and Italy were the most prominent parts of the Commonwealth but by the time the bombs fell it was dissolved entirely. There's no mention of the Mediterranean Sea in any of the lore, so it's probably just a mistake made by the texture artist.
Germany is even smaller, because with the USSR still going strong in the Fallout universe, the soviet occupied territories (the German Democratic Republic) would probably never have been reunited with the Federal Republic of Germany (if that even existed in the Fallout universe...). Of course this is highly speculative, because we have next to no information on european politics outside of the fallout bible, which is AFAIK non-canon...
Give Feedback
45 comments
But seriously, they are becoming more and more Marxist IRL.
One counterpoint to all of that though, Fallout clearly doesn't use real-world science. The science of the '50's is reality in the Fallout world, just look at how they thought radiation worked. Therefore, you could argue sea levels wouldn't have risen because that's just not how science works in that world. Still though, they knew fossil fuels could cause damage, and the wasteland is the epitome of it. I could see the sea levels risen being justified. Possibly even having receded in the 200 years since the war back to the normal state thanks to humanity's disappearance.
I understand the big differences such as the USSR being still present, and all the talk here about Mediterranean being drained was stated in the Fallout Bible, but what about all the other changed borders, such as the changes in South America and Africa? I trust you know what you're talking about, and I've already downloaded the mod, but what are your sources? This got me interested and I want to learn more about the Fallout universe now.
Literally what I was thinking :| I'm a Geography and History teacher, if you can't tell the difference between this new map and our real map, please open up a Geography or History text
Idk why the med being drained is most unsettling to you out of all the changes depicted. lol.
Also, for the record, your beloved EU is working on creating a Mediterranean Union, so once that happens, it will be perfectly sensible to drain the med itself to connect the two areas, purely because Europe is not big enough to house all the North Africans which will be coming once they are given free travel to do so... EU/MU will need to expand their geographic territories, which will mean not only forcefully including the Eastern block, and eventually Russian territory, but draining the Med or something could be a less violent alternative for the new Europeans that are replacing your civilization...
Think the picture in globes actually is 2077, so... who still makes actual 2287 maps? :/
Thx for info in advance!
There's no mention of the Mediterranean Sea in any of the lore, so it's probably just a mistake made by the texture artist.
Of course this is highly speculative, because we have next to no information on european politics outside of the fallout bible, which is AFAIK non-canon...