I lost my 15 health ranger for 21 days after he took a single point of damage in a mission from poison and was gravely wounded.If you think losing a character for the entire game is fun when they take 1 point of damage, more power to ya. For people that don't find that fun or fair there's mods like this.
When i downloaded this, it was working fine, even with SPARKs. but after a couple days, my sparks would not recieve repairs. at all. 002, with one hp after a hard mission, has been in repair ward for about ... i dunno, a year in game? still has one hp. other than that, great mod, it helps players like me IMMENSELY. just wished i had this mod earlier due to a certain incident... all i had left was a damaged robot and two rookies. 10/10 would get karma for not having this mod earlier again.
I am not sure this mod is actually working. I was on a retaliation mission just now and my ranger with 15 hp got hit by Chryssalid for 5 dmg.So i was left with 10 hp which should have resulted in light wounds since i was still over 60% of total hp.However the result was a Gravely Wounded without staffed AWC and Wounded with staffed AWC.Even with the vanilla values i should have gotten only Wounded(since then i would be just below the 75% threshold). Gravely Wounded should have happened at 7.5 hp with the vanilla threshold or at 4.5 with the mod threshold.My ranger never got less than 10 hp. So it seems that something is wrong with the values because neither the mod nor the vanilla thresholds for wounds make sense in my case.
EDIT:I managed to change the initial result of Gravely Wounded(14 days) with no engineer in AWC and Wounded(7 days) with engineer in AWC to Wounded(6 days) with no engineer in AWC and Lightly Wounded(3 days) with engineer in AWC only by changing who and how kills the last enemy in the mission. So it seems that with the same minimum hp that my ranger got down to(10hp) i was able to get in 2 of the wounds thresholds which is not supposed to hapen as far as i understand.The only variable should be the amount of days that i am recovering within the wounds threshold range. Either i just can't understand how exactly those thresholds for the wounds categories work or they are not working correctly even tho the percentages that are set look ok.
Not entirely sure this mod is actually a benefit to commanders.
Lets take a pretty early game soldier that still wears Kevlar and only half their ranks, so about 10 hp.
+ With vanilla values, a light wound is within 2.5 points of damage ...which is pretty much never going to happen with conventional weapon fire and damage. + With the modded values, a light would is within 4 points of damage..which is pretty much never going to happen outside of lance advent melee attacks or feedback attacks.
This means generally ...you're always going to be pushed into the wounded or grievous wounds categories.
+ With vanilla values, a wound is within 5 points of damage; and a grievous wound is within 8 points of damage. That is a pretty common average of damage for combat with a single attack that doesn't outright kill your soldier. + With modded values, a wound is within 7 points of damage; and a grievous wound is within 9 points of damage. A better threshold than light wounds ..but still within the 5 to 8 range of vanilla to where you are petty much going to always be either at the top of wounded or just over the hump for grievous.
All in all, even if the modded values are more reasonable percentage wise, in practical numbers from combat it's almost moot. A typical exchange of gunfire / explosions / etc. is going to do about 5-11 damage depending on if it crits or not...or which alien tech hits you. Even if you are lucky and just take 4 damage...its enough that the game rounds you up to the next wound bracket...which pushes you out of light wounds for the modded value.
This is important for the next part:
Vanilla heal recovery values have a very wide variance...while modded values are more closely averaged. This means one of two things:
1. If using vanilla values...you could walk away with only a 10 day vacation for critical wounds ( the worst of the worst ) , or 40 days ( ouch ). You could also spend only 1 day at the nurses office for a light wound, or 10 days. This means you could get away with never spending any real time recovering ...or never see a second mission. For those that luck out...getting really short recovery times is the real reward at the end of a mission.
2. You're always going to spend a good chunk of your time at the ER with modded values, because a light wound has a minimum 3.5 day recovery period, even if its max is ony 7.5 days. A critical wound is going to keep you occupied for a minimum of 22 days, with a max of 28 days.
While this is great for averages....the vanilla values are almost equal averages to the modded ones. The kicker...which I'm sure most people will focus on...is when you could have gotten a really short recovery period in vanilla compared to the 3x as long minimums of the modded version. And none of this is taking into consideration extra factors that reduce recovery time like having an engineer on hand at the facility.
3.5 days might not seem like a big deal when missions are so spaced out ...but like pointed out before getting a light wound is almost as rare as getting a critical wound. You're going to be in that middle ground of wounded or greatly wounded...and that's where the mandatory 7.5+ days is going to add up; especially if you want to be doing training.
I haven't gotten into late game to tell if the scaling of Xcom armor vs Alien tech keeps at the same pace as Early game ( making the bigger health pools moot ), but from the early to mid game... I'm not seeing the tangible benefit to using the mod values over vanilla ones. ( My opinion and observation ).
I think that maybe it would be better to see vanilla-like minimum ranges. I don't think changing the percentages is going to do much good unless you made light wounds go further down past 60% ...which would rather defeat the "light" part of that category; it's just a downfall of how combat dmg vs hp is in the game. You would have to re-adjust weapon damage to almost half for the recovery percentages to adequately reflect practical health loss.
Edit: ( An Idea ) It's possible that the recovery needs to be less linear / predictable. Cut it down to 3 wound brackets.
Say, Light wounds are treated as "Freebee" damage that isn't counted against you. Make the health % threshold stick to 60%...since its relatively hard to stay in that anyway ( or raise it to 70% ), but make recovery really short, like 1-2 days.
Equivalent to a grazing wound ( like the dodge mechanic ). You just patch it and continue on.
"Normal" wounds, which would make up 90% ( not expressively in the actual % recovery values ) of recovery. This would use the largest range in time..something akin to vanilla, but still require that the player not stand in tiles of fire.
So it would cover the wound and grievous wound categories in one...while raising its minimum % to be more in line with the large variance for light wounds. IE: it would cover the 59 to 20 % threshold ( give or take some % ). Recovery time would be equally similar, so somewhere between 5 days and 15.
This accounts for various types of wounds, like shoulder hits, open wounds from melee / claw attacks, concussions, arrows to the knee, etc.Each requiring a different amount of recovery..and allows for "multiple wounds" for RP effect. ( like when getting hit ----> med kit ---- Hit again. )
The lowest end...that last 20% ..would account for near death events. The kind that actually keeps you in the hospital for weeks on end. So it would jump to the 20+ days mark right off the bat.
So recovery would look like this:
1-2 days or 5-15 days or 20+ days. Rather than a linear curve where each bracket just starts where the last one left off.
It sort of forgives players for that minor infraction, while severely punishing for still having a soldier that should have pretty much died; while having the common every day recovery be at least somewhat random without being downright annoying that you "just missed" a bracket that would have gotten you a better recovery time..."maybe".
Just a possible thought I had after my initial post.
It's, on average, a benefit - while you're right that the raised minimums can hurt, the lowered maximums means you no longer have 30 day wound timers or anything especially egregious like that.
I do like your ideas, though, and my hopes and plans are to tie it into a new wound system that works similar to long war - the armor you wear creates a health buffer that does not affect wound status, and wounds are calculated more polynomially once you get wounded (1 damage = 1 day, and as you take more damage, each damage is worth more), and then randomized within a fair and sometimes wildly beneficial field.
I created this much more as a stopgap due to the erroneous ways wounds were actually tracked and recorded, due to the existing failure to track wound points to wound timers in a 1 to 1 ratio.
I just released an update though, since the game was calling wounds grave even when they were not.
I understand one of the benefits of the mod being the lack of 40 day recovery periods, and it helps ( though very rarely would I see something like that because they would pretty much just be dead soldiers at that point anyway ). The gameplay / strategic part though is whether 28 days is any different.
With the standard allotment of soldiers, you're going to need new recruits anyway if you are not the meticulous "safety first" kind of commander. Would an extra 12 days ( at a worst case scenario..which with your mod we're talking less than 9% of the time, on top of the rare case of even taking enough damage in a single shot to go critical and not die to begin with ) really make a difference when it counts?
If a soldier is 28 days in recovery or 40..they're pretty much forgotten for 2 supply drop cycles; which mean's when you realize how long they are out...your first choice is how to replace them for the meantime. A lower recovery period ( like 10-15 days ), and you might just tough it out with the soldiers you still have, and/or forgo getting soldier recruits whenever you have the chance since you wont be facing long periods of recovery. Having an extra 12 days wait time would really only matter if your "replacement" just happen to be unfortunate enough to get its own set of grave wounds; so we're adding more rng into the mix.
Having an entire squad in recovery for 28 days vs 40 days is pretty much the exact same outcome ...you've lost, or are going to take a lot of hits to avatar progress / retaliation / etc.On the other hand..having an entire squad out for 1 day vs 7 days is not that much of a difference, but adds up, and in particular cases changes your strategic planning dramatically. A 1 day recovery break could mean an extra mission or two each time ...or being able to respond to a facility before it starts pumping out avatar progress.
The comparative point I was making though was that generally you'll never see light or critical wounds ...only normal / grave ones because of the minimum damage of attacks vs how much health a soldier will have. And that while the mod helps with consistency of recovery ranges / overlapping ...it removes any chance for speedy recovery or catastrophic failure that vanilla provided.In the end...it really doesn't better your chances at getting lower recovery times, but rather just makes recovery predictable from the tighter "averages". Both versions will average to the same point.
I wouldn't say it's a positive or negative change, just predictable. Aesthetically, that can be boring, but that's a different discussion to have.
From an initial design perspective though, from what you explained as the reasoning for the changes on the mod's front page , I don't see how the mod allows soldiers to "buck up" and keep going. With pushing the recovery period back several days ..it just means at a bare minimum soldiers will be waiting it out longer compared to vanilla, or no different. They may not be waiting for 40 days, but they are also not right back out into the field after a single day. Which is fine as a purposeful design decision..but seems to not match up with what you perceived to intend the mod to do. ( Just an observation ).
That all being said, it definitely requires more "finesse" for it to work 'right', as you pointed out. Having it on a per health point basis would definitely get it in the right direction, but also render this mod moot / unrelated at the same time, since they'll be using vastly different means of recovery. I think a per health system is interesting and even more consistent...but might not be what people are looking for ( which is entirely fine ).
Id like to see both options available though, and possibly the original trimmed up a bit later. Looking forward to its progress.
My goal with this mod, initially, was to prevent 1 damage from being a grave wound, and limiting that firmly to a "light wound" territory - and I hope, but don't believe, that I've succeeded in that due to the absolutely asanine way that the game handles wound timer distributions.
So the benefits of this, ultimately, are minor at best, and flavorful at worst. Also, shaken status should happen a lot less often. But yeah, I get what you're saying, and I definitely do believe in a stronger wound overhaul design - but the static function wall is making editing existing systems a mite trickier than expected, so it's been slow going.
The new v1.111 of the mod causes my game to crash on startup. When i disable the mod - the game launches fine. Will revert back to the previous version for now.
About to test this out, because it seems our saviours of humanity are busy taking extensive sickdays, rather than being, well, supersoldiery. Pretty annoying, so here's to hoping.
Also, side-note, Kwahn ? Love you for the "Contains the mod that does the things"-bit
For some reason the mod launcher does not detect this mod for me.It does not show up in the list. At first i thought it was because the folder structure was Less Gravely Wounded/Less Gravely Wounded/"Mod files/folders".So i moved the inner Less Gravely Wounded folder to the root of Mods folder to no avail. Then i tried removing the spaces in the folder name to no avail again. Then i realized that all the other mods that i have and the mod launcher detects have a .XComMod file in the root folder of the mod while this mod lacks this file.I then tried changing the .XComMod extension on one of the other mods to something like ._XComMod and surely enough the mod with the changed extension no longer showed in the mod launcher. I opened one of the .XComMod files with notepad and saw that it only has few things in it like: publishedFileId= Title= Description= tags= contentImage= The Title,Description,tags and contentImage are self-explanatory, but i don't know what the publishedFileId is or where i can find out its value. Could the author pls update the mod or at least give me some info on what i need to put in those fields so i can create that file myself?Thanks.
And I wanna apologize for how wonky this has been - Xcom mods are super new, and this is my first nexus mod, which has combined into a bit of newbishness on my end.
I see no difference with this mod, had my soldie lose 2hp and get gravely wounded, another lost 5 and got wounded. Now im waiting 16 days for recovery.
I updated it, and it should be more consistent now. Before, different wound thresholds had overlapping HealPoint costs (which translate to heal times), and so light and grave wounds would occasionally share the same HealPoint costs. The game would then define a person as gravely wounded based on their HealPoint cost, prioritizing more-wounded identifiers first.
I made it so that wounds no longer share HealPoint costs, keeping a 1:to:1 ratio so that the functions can go back and forth without messing up how wounded the soldier *actually* was.
29 comments
you might have to create the mods folder
I was on a retaliation mission just now and my ranger with 15 hp got hit by Chryssalid for 5 dmg.So i was left with 10 hp which should have resulted in light wounds since i was still over 60% of total hp.However the result was a Gravely Wounded without staffed AWC and Wounded with staffed AWC.Even with the vanilla values i should have gotten only Wounded(since then i would be just below the 75% threshold).
Gravely Wounded should have happened at 7.5 hp with the vanilla threshold or at 4.5 with the mod threshold.My ranger never got less than 10 hp.
So it seems that something is wrong with the values because neither the mod nor the vanilla thresholds for wounds make sense in my case.
EDIT:I managed to change the initial result of Gravely Wounded(14 days) with no engineer in AWC and Wounded(7 days) with engineer in AWC to Wounded(6 days) with no engineer in AWC and Lightly Wounded(3 days) with engineer in AWC only by changing who and how kills the last enemy in the mission.
So it seems that with the same minimum hp that my ranger got down to(10hp) i was able to get in 2 of the wounds thresholds which is not supposed to hapen as far as i understand.The only variable should be the amount of days that i am recovering within the wounds threshold range.
Either i just can't understand how exactly those thresholds for the wounds categories work or they are not working correctly even tho the percentages that are set look ok.
Turns out Firaxis reads the wound table ass-backwards, so while I fixed the inconsistency, it was actually now consistently wrong.
Flipped it, should be consistently right now.
Lets take a pretty early game soldier that still wears Kevlar and only half their ranks, so about 10 hp.
+ With vanilla values, a light wound is within 2.5 points of damage ...which is pretty much never going to happen with conventional weapon fire and damage.
+ With the modded values, a light would is within 4 points of damage..which is pretty much never going to happen outside of lance advent melee attacks or feedback attacks.
This means generally ...you're always going to be pushed into the wounded or grievous wounds categories.
+ With vanilla values, a wound is within 5 points of damage; and a grievous wound is within 8 points of damage. That is a pretty common average of damage for combat with a single attack that doesn't outright kill your soldier.
+ With modded values, a wound is within 7 points of damage; and a grievous wound is within 9 points of damage. A better threshold than light wounds ..but still within the 5 to 8 range of vanilla to where you are petty much going to always be either at the top of wounded or just over the hump for grievous.
All in all, even if the modded values are more reasonable percentage wise, in practical numbers from combat it's almost moot. A typical exchange of gunfire / explosions / etc. is going to do about 5-11 damage depending on if it crits or not...or which alien tech hits you. Even if you are lucky and just take 4 damage...its enough that the game rounds you up to the next wound bracket...which pushes you out of light wounds for the modded value.
This is important for the next part:
Vanilla heal recovery values have a very wide variance...while modded values are more closely averaged. This means one of two things:
1. If using vanilla values...you could walk away with only a 10 day vacation for critical wounds ( the worst of the worst ) , or 40 days ( ouch ). You could also spend only 1 day at the nurses office for a light wound, or 10 days. This means you could get away with never spending any real time recovering ...or never see a second mission. For those that luck out...getting really short recovery times is the real reward at the end of a mission.
2. You're always going to spend a good chunk of your time at the ER with modded values, because a light wound has a minimum 3.5 day recovery period, even if its max is ony 7.5 days. A critical wound is going to keep you occupied for a minimum of 22 days, with a max of 28 days.
While this is great for averages....the vanilla values are almost equal averages to the modded ones. The kicker...which I'm sure most people will focus on...is when you could have gotten a really short recovery period in vanilla compared to the 3x as long minimums of the modded version. And none of this is taking into consideration extra factors that reduce recovery time like having an engineer on hand at the facility.
3.5 days might not seem like a big deal when missions are so spaced out ...but like pointed out before getting a light wound is almost as rare as getting a critical wound. You're going to be in that middle ground of wounded or greatly wounded...and that's where the mandatory 7.5+ days is going to add up; especially if you want to be doing training.
I haven't gotten into late game to tell if the scaling of Xcom armor vs Alien tech keeps at the same pace as Early game ( making the bigger health pools moot ), but from the early to mid game... I'm not seeing the tangible benefit to using the mod values over vanilla ones. ( My opinion and observation ).
I think that maybe it would be better to see vanilla-like minimum ranges. I don't think changing the percentages is going to do much good unless you made light wounds go further down past 60% ...which would rather defeat the "light" part of that category; it's just a downfall of how combat dmg vs hp is in the game. You would have to re-adjust weapon damage to almost half for the recovery percentages to adequately reflect practical health loss.
Edit: ( An Idea ) It's possible that the recovery needs to be less linear / predictable. Cut it down to 3 wound brackets.
Say, Light wounds are treated as "Freebee" damage that isn't counted against you. Make the health % threshold stick to 60%...since its relatively hard to stay in that anyway ( or raise it to 70% ), but make recovery really short, like 1-2 days.
Equivalent to a grazing wound ( like the dodge mechanic ). You just patch it and continue on.
"Normal" wounds, which would make up 90% ( not expressively in the actual % recovery values ) of recovery. This would use the largest range in time..something akin to vanilla, but still require that the player not stand in tiles of fire.
So it would cover the wound and grievous wound categories in one...while raising its minimum % to be more in line with the large variance for light wounds. IE: it would cover the 59 to 20 % threshold ( give or take some % ). Recovery time would be equally similar, so somewhere between 5 days and 15.
This accounts for various types of wounds, like shoulder hits, open wounds from melee / claw attacks, concussions, arrows to the knee, etc.Each requiring a different amount of recovery..and allows for "multiple wounds" for RP effect. ( like when getting hit ----> med kit ---- Hit again. )
The lowest end...that last 20% ..would account for near death events. The kind that actually keeps you in the hospital for weeks on end. So it would jump to the 20+ days mark right off the bat.
So recovery would look like this:
1-2 days or 5-15 days or 20+ days. Rather than a linear curve where each bracket just starts where the last one left off.
It sort of forgives players for that minor infraction, while severely punishing for still having a soldier that should have pretty much died; while having the common every day recovery be at least somewhat random without being downright annoying that you "just missed" a bracket that would have gotten you a better recovery time..."maybe".
Just a possible thought I had after my initial post.
I do like your ideas, though, and my hopes and plans are to tie it into a new wound system that works similar to long war - the armor you wear creates a health buffer that does not affect wound status, and wounds are calculated more polynomially once you get wounded (1 damage = 1 day, and as you take more damage, each damage is worth more), and then randomized within a fair and sometimes wildly beneficial field.
I created this much more as a stopgap due to the erroneous ways wounds were actually tracked and recorded, due to the existing failure to track wound points to wound timers in a 1 to 1 ratio.
I just released an update though, since the game was calling wounds grave even when they were not.
With the standard allotment of soldiers, you're going to need new recruits anyway if you are not the meticulous "safety first" kind of commander. Would an extra 12 days ( at a worst case scenario..which with your mod we're talking less than 9% of the time, on top of the rare case of even taking enough damage in a single shot to go critical and not die to begin with ) really make a difference when it counts?
If a soldier is 28 days in recovery or 40..they're pretty much forgotten for 2 supply drop cycles; which mean's when you realize how long they are out...your first choice is how to replace them for the meantime. A lower recovery period ( like 10-15 days ), and you might just tough it out with the soldiers you still have, and/or forgo getting soldier recruits whenever you have the chance since you wont be facing long periods of recovery. Having an extra 12 days wait time would really only matter if your "replacement" just happen to be unfortunate enough to get its own set of grave wounds; so we're adding more rng into the mix.
Having an entire squad in recovery for 28 days vs 40 days is pretty much the exact same outcome ...you've lost, or are going to take a lot of hits to avatar progress / retaliation / etc.On the other hand..having an entire squad out for 1 day vs 7 days is not that much of a difference, but adds up, and in particular cases changes your strategic planning dramatically. A 1 day recovery break could mean an extra mission or two each time ...or being able to respond to a facility before it starts pumping out avatar progress.
The comparative point I was making though was that generally you'll never see light or critical wounds ...only normal / grave ones because of the minimum damage of attacks vs how much health a soldier will have. And that while the mod helps with consistency of recovery ranges / overlapping ...it removes any chance for speedy recovery or catastrophic failure that vanilla provided.In the end...it really doesn't better your chances at getting lower recovery times, but rather just makes recovery predictable from the tighter "averages". Both versions will average to the same point.
I wouldn't say it's a positive or negative change, just predictable. Aesthetically, that can be boring, but that's a different discussion to have.
From an initial design perspective though, from what you explained as the reasoning for the changes on the mod's front page , I don't see how the mod allows soldiers to "buck up" and keep going. With pushing the recovery period back several days ..it just means at a bare minimum soldiers will be waiting it out longer compared to vanilla, or no different. They may not be waiting for 40 days, but they are also not right back out into the field after a single day. Which is fine as a purposeful design decision..but seems to not match up with what you perceived to intend the mod to do. ( Just an observation ).
That all being said, it definitely requires more "finesse" for it to work 'right', as you pointed out. Having it on a per health point basis would definitely get it in the right direction, but also render this mod moot / unrelated at the same time, since they'll be using vastly different means of recovery. I think a per health system is interesting and even more consistent...but might not be what people are looking for ( which is entirely fine ).
Id like to see both options available though, and possibly the original trimmed up a bit later. Looking forward to its progress.
So the benefits of this, ultimately, are minor at best, and flavorful at worst. Also, shaken status should happen a lot less often. But yeah, I get what you're saying, and I definitely do believe in a stronger wound overhaul design - but the static function wall is making editing existing systems a mite trickier than expected, so it's been slow going.
I shall keep working at it, commander. *salute*
When i disable the mod - the game launches fine.
Will revert back to the previous version for now.
I'm working on a fix to fix the fix now. Bear with me!
Also, side-note, Kwahn ? Love you for the "Contains the mod that does the things"-bit
At first i thought it was because the folder structure was Less Gravely Wounded/Less Gravely Wounded/"Mod files/folders".So i moved the inner Less Gravely Wounded folder to the root of Mods folder to no avail.
Then i tried removing the spaces in the folder name to no avail again.
Then i realized that all the other mods that i have and the mod launcher detects have a .XComMod file in the root folder of the mod while this mod lacks this file.I then tried changing the .XComMod extension on one of the other mods to something like ._XComMod and surely enough the mod with the changed extension no longer showed in the mod launcher.
I opened one of the .XComMod files with notepad and saw that it only has few things in it like:
publishedFileId=
Title=
Description=
tags=
contentImage=
The Title,Description,tags and contentImage are self-explanatory, but i don't know what the publishedFileId is or where i can find out its value.
Could the author pls update the mod or at least give me some info on what i need to put in those fields so i can create that file myself?Thanks.
And I wanna apologize for how wonky this has been - Xcom mods are super new, and this is my first nexus mod, which has combined into a bit of newbishness on my end.
I made it so that wounds no longer share HealPoint costs, keeping a 1:to:1 ratio so that the functions can go back and forth without messing up how wounded the soldier *actually* was.
Redownload if it's still being goofy.