Looks cool but the only reason Geralt is pale is due to his loss of pigmentation, which occured when he had undergone the mutation of the Trials, but only because he went over additional mutation (due to his exceptional resistance) that other witchers didn't.
Also it makes them extraordinary healthy, because of how well their body work (fast metabolism, immune to poisons and deceases, etc...) that amongst other, is the reason they age much slower than humans. So they look quite the contrary than "sick".
Plus I don't know how the glowing eyes became a thing since I've never in my life seen a cat's eyes glow like it's some kind of magma. Much like most mammals, their pupils retract under heavy light, and dilate in the darkness, other that those two extremes, their eyes look normal. Witchers being human, their eyes's color remain human-like, despite being able use them as wild predators.
Sorry for the rant, just wanted to adress some of the common misconceptions I often see here.
You are quite right above, except the quoted part, and in whole went a bit over the top with this glorious interpretation. Along the books, it is fe. clearly described, that Geralt suffers from potion taking (and also from his "jobs") ... not necessarily directly after the potion works, but in sum in the aftershow, sotospeak. And overdosis should be avoided, of course. That is also quite properly depicted in-game, just with the toxicity mechanics.
@DaVincix yes he suffers from intoxication but can't die from it, his potions also have some side-effects like erectile-dysfonction, other than that, it's clearly stated that he is indeed immune to all common poisons, like poison from plants and poisonous animals, which are injected to witcher during the Trials, but of course this leads to another issue, if it is a rare or exotic poison, or magical one, he is not immune, since he didn't develop any immunity because not injected in the Trials.
@Akatoshka7 This information comes from the only canon source there is : the original books written by Andrzej Sapkowski, more preciselly in the Voice of Reason 4 shortstory of the first book The Last Wish, in which he talks to Iola, a priestess from Nenneke's Melitele temple. There he says :
"First the Trial of the grasses, and then the usual things : hormones, plants, contamination by virus. Once. Twice. Until it succeeded. I heard that I endured those changes very well, I wasn't sick for long. So I was considered as a kid with great resistance and chosen for other...more complicated experiments. There, it wasn't that easy. Way less easier."
Well, i know. But it is also open for interpretation. And after all, witchers were once more or less normal guys, many died during the witcher education. There is also no absolute description in this matter about Geralt. We can assume though as quasi certain, that Geralt is meant to be not immune but much more resistant versus all such impacts. And he was a special witcher, no question, because he managed to survive the hardest treatments (as you correctly cited).
In general, where normal humans die or become sick instantly, he goes fairly well with it. If overall, like getting a light form flu, versus others would suffer a lot from a more or less deadly virus. That calls high resistance, not immunity. And certainly, it depends on the impacts and his then current condition. It can also be interpreted that he is "immune" to the deseases of the time, the game lore is doing it.
To all this comes the fact, that we play an old Geralt in Witcher 3. And also, when we allow to consider game lore as something valid, suffered/suffers from amnesia, which can also lead (interpreted) to additional impacts like physical malfunctions, which lowering conditions ... quasi (comparative) disfunctions, which but can be repaired.
And, the according descriptions in the books which you mention is from periods way way back in the past. And as said, there are passages where it is described that he suffers from his job where it stated that it comes also from potion consumption. Plus in one of the last books it is described how Vilgefortz made mincemeat out of him, and that he physically suffers from it also post Brokilon, where he got his "salvation", in all his following combat actions.
In sum, there is quite some interpretation possible for the Witcher 3 Geralt. But for example not, imo. at least, that he looks "now" like a young man and is fit like the young witcher, that he once was. Nonetheless, he has exceptionel abilities.
Agreed that high resistance would be more accurate than immune, he isn't afraid of the Variola in Baptism of Fire, but when Sorel Edgerlund poisons him in Season of Storms, he does not resist the poison indeed.
Also I have to say the game-lore is sometimes out of canon about his mutations, although they got right the fact that his mutations do not strip him of emotions (unlike netflix's Shitcher) they went too far when Vesemir died and he said he would cry if he could, well, in the books he is completely capable of crying, he shed a tear when he retrieved Ciri in LOTL.
And I disagree that we play an "old" Geralt, since in the Voice of Reason shortstories take place in 1252 and the very last shortstory Something More is 1264, when Ciri is about 12yo, that's not really "way back intime". And considering the five novels end in 1268 (peace of Cintra), that's only 4 years before the game's timeline. Also since witchers are supposed to live very old, Vesemir being around 250-300yo and looking in his 50's and Geralt being 80-90yo when the games take place, I don't think he is supposed to be old there, he is still fairly in his prime, and should not even look a day older than 30-35yo.
To this belongs also the apparent timeline. Here is a more or less accurate one (German language though): Chronik
Geralt is born 1180. Witcher 3 starts 1275 (corrected date), so he is 95 along this timeline. His age is also mentioned by Vesemir in White Orchard in a dialog "...almost 100", so there the game is pretty accurate. Witcher 3 Wild Hunt ends 1277. We have then still HoS and BaW. One can probably agree that at the end of BaW he is almost 100 or rather above.
How and in what way the aging of witchers goes with their appearance, ie. skin aging etc., is imo. up to interpretation! Unless you have a reliable source. Also, there is no common rule. I would say, like in real life, one can interprete it so that this is actually very individual. For example Vesemir is mentioned to be a very exception in this regard, in so far that even the young witchers, aka Vesemir's "pupils" and everybody envy Vesemir for his agility!
Commonly, witchers have no easy life. They are almost always outside by wind and weather. Often might have not enough good food, good sleep etc.. and then the potion consumption, and job stress. Geralt is supposed to have had a hell of a time prior to the game's start, incl. extreme injuries and even almost death. That causes imprints. So we must agree to disagree in the matter of "fairly young appearance".
Anyways, mods or whatever productions, that show Geralt as young man of 20-25 are imo. complete nonsense ;)
Edit: Almost forgotten, please add the source, if you have one, that says Vesemir is 250-300 years old, and that witchers can get such age, and much more. After all Vesemir looks like 50'ish, so he would have still a good time in front? I could only find the indicator "Vesemir ... probably older than Kaer Morhen itself", but that could have been also a joke about the teacher. I guessed him around 150, just when Geralt was let's say 12 as he came to Kaer Morhen, Vesemir was the experienced trainer.
Edit2: In 'Blood of Elves' seems to be a quite close description of Geralt's according appearance. As Triss meets him again after a longer time, and thinks '... face full of wrinkles ...'. Likewise, the same passage tells about '... mutation hinders the physical aging ...' but '... not the psychological...'.
Well the timeline I based my conclusions is this one?, and I try to stay clear out of wikis which are often filled with errors.
When I say Geralt is around 80 in the books I do also agree that he is in his 90's in the games when Vesemir reminds him. The issue is, that his birth-date was never confirmed or canonically mentioned (canon being just the books or Sapkowski himself), and the games just took that assumption (CDPR did wonderful, just saying). But I agree about him being in his late 90's at the end of DLC's, assuming BaW takes place a couple years after the main story.
I never said that Geralt is "fairly young", I said "fairly in his prime" which is reffering to his habilities and skill, which I based uppon the same excerpt that says that Vesemir's agility could make 20yo men envious. (not witchers btw) The productions that show Geralt as a young man of 20-25yo are also nonsense to me (except depictions of the shortstories, especially Grain of Truth) but the productions or mods that make him look 50-60 are even more nonsense. Entering in Kaer Morhen in BoE, Triss says this.
"He had changed. He gave the impression of having aged. Triss knew that it was biologically impossible. Sure, witchers aged, but at a pace too slow for simple mortals or a mage like her to notice the effects of time on them. Nonetheless it took her just a glance to understand that the mutation can slow down the physical process, but not the psychological one. Geralt's face, weathered with wrinkles, was flagrant proof of that"
Now that leaves room for interpretation, so I don't think there is a right/wrong answer, but if "mortals or mages like her" can't notice the effects of time on them, I'm surely positive that witchers live way longer than just 2/3 times more than the lifespan of an average human. (especially in medieval times) So my interpretation of this is that Geralt's face aged, but there is limits to that, a 30yo man can look older than he is, but he will never look as a 70yo man, if anything, I interpret his wrinkles as signs of fatigue and hard-life, more like the common joke about men before and after having kids, that's why I think he looks around 35 in the books and maybe 40 in the games, so basically CDPR imo, nailed his appearance age-wise, around 40ish, and also maybe the only thing that Cavill has physically in common with Geralt from the books. Being wrinkled doesn't mean you look like an old man, it's more or less that your facial expressions show some aging. (as I was just rewatching True Detective recently, Matthew McConaughey's is really wrinkled and he still looks fairly young but was 44 at that time)
As for Vesemir, my source about him being 250-300yo is the same as your own source about him being 150, which is nothing but interpretations. The mention of him potentially being older than Kaer Morhen does not come from a joke or any characters, it's the narrator himself (through Triss's POV still)
"Yes, Vesemir was really old. Who knows if he wasn't older than Kaer Morhen"
Now this makes me question my own interpretation of him looking in his 50's, Sapkowski often uses very specific terms, and "really old" sounds more like he looks around 70yo, if he trully looked 50, I think he would have been described as just "old" and there is still a contrast between him and Geralt, which would not be the same as if he looked 50 and Geralt around 40. After she says that Geralt looks older, not old.
"in so far that even the young witchers, aka Vesemir's "pupils" and everybody envy Vesemir for his agility!"
Not really the text just after that says "He came towards her, in a quick, energetic, and agile step" and later on "VEsemir was a witcher. That he was also a man of a very advanced age didn't change anything to the fact that young people might envy him for his health" not agility, and while I don't think the younger witchers could beat him (except Geralt maybe) because of his skill and experience, I don't think they'd envy his agility.
So from what we've gathered here, I think it's safe to say that Geralt is between 80-100, looks like a wrinkled 35-40yo, and if we assume that very healthy normal humans can live up to 110-120 years, I'd say that witchers can indeed reach 300 years old and maybe even more. As to Vesemir, if he looks 70-80yo, then I'd say it's safe to assume that he is around 200-250yo.
Interesting source and interesting post by you again. You'll get a kudos for all of that.
My "short" commentation still to some points.
- Single researchers can be admired, no question, for all the work they did. But better don't take it as "peer reviewed", aka a most reliable source. They can't serve as such. The guy also does not claim reliability, and has provided even two different timeline interpretations. Nonetheless, I like what and how he did it, good work, but it won't be my new The Witcher timeline bible.
- Wiki (fan) pages are at least quasi "peer reviewed", aka constantly under observation and thus receive corrections/improvements. Thus consequently must be rather preferred vs single researchers. Until there is (merely unexpected) a consensus by Witcher/Sapkowski experts, that a single researcher did it better than a source that gathers specific information all the time (or just as purpose of its existence). While that is a contradiction, because normally one would assume that the place where information is gathered would take over the consent results of a researchment. So here we must agree to disagree again, when you say, that this is your overall valid source for dates.
- And actually "safe" is here imo. almost nothing. You were rather right when and where you mention "room for interpretation". Here refering mainly to the question, the outward appearance of Geralt.
- So speaking of W3: Depicting him (his face) typically as around 35-40 or around 45-50 or even around 55-60 can be imo. assumed as plausible, just feasable and believable. But fe. i do not like mods which make him look as aged as Vesemir or even older. While the main issue is rather that Vesemir looks relatively too young. Instead of seeing still new Geralt face mods, somebody capable should show mercy and make a proper Vesemir face mod ;) And Geralt looking younger than 35 for W3 WH incl. HoS and BaW does not go for my personal "lore realism" feeling.
- As for Vesemir "agility" or "health" ... you are right, and that's exactly the passage i referred to, but quite inaccurate described. While the point was not that, but just Vesemir's exceptionel person in this whole regard.
- We can't know how old a usual or special witcher actually can get. It's open to interpretations as there is probably not a single reliable source.
That said, i enjoyed this discussion very much, thanks a lot!
Closing notes to the theme "sources" and according authencity in productions, which are just re-productions and interpretations of the books:
I ignore the Netflix The Witcher show, since i observed the pre-release/development period. It's rather wannabe Hollywood persiflage to me. Not intending to hurt the makers, they certainly tried their best, the results are but not my taste.
I completely agree, of course, that the books are the only valid sources. While i also believe that a) Sapkowski made some inaccuracies here and there, what can happen also easily when doing that much short stories & novels with such complex stuff, b) quite something leaves room for interpretation, and that can also be seen as advantage (fe. otherwise CDPR had an even greater problem in or with their productions in diverse respects).
The CDPR Witcher teams made roughly viewed a very good job, despite the many flaws.
17 comments
Sent 26 October 2020 - 02:04 PM
Fan
Hi!
I like your Gwynbleidd mod. Nice work!
Can I get permission by you for use yours textures?
pudi0072000
Sent 29 October 2020 - 06:18 PM
Enthusiast
Thank you! Feel free to use the textures. I'd love to see what you do with them!
Nexuer
Sent 29 October 2020 - 07:16 PM
Fan
Many thanks!
Can I publish my mod with your's textures, right?
pudi0072000
Sent 30 October 2020 - 12:03 AM
Enthusiast
Yes, absolutely
Of course.
Also it makes them extraordinary healthy, because of how well their body work (fast metabolism, immune to poisons and deceases, etc...) that amongst other, is the reason they age much slower than humans. So they look quite the contrary than "sick".
Plus I don't know how the glowing eyes became a thing since I've never in my life seen a cat's eyes glow like it's some kind of magma. Much like most mammals, their pupils retract under heavy light, and dilate in the darkness, other that those two extremes, their eyes look normal. Witchers being human, their eyes's color remain human-like, despite being able use them as wild predators.
Sorry for the rant, just wanted to adress some of the common misconceptions I often see here.
You are quite right above, except the quoted part, and in whole went a bit over the top with this glorious interpretation.
Along the books, it is fe. clearly described, that Geralt suffers from potion taking (and also from his "jobs") ... not necessarily directly after the potion works, but in sum in the aftershow, sotospeak. And overdosis should be avoided, of course.
That is also quite properly depicted in-game, just with the toxicity mechanics.
I'm curious where this information came from.
There he says :
"First the Trial of the grasses, and then the usual things : hormones, plants, contamination by virus. Once. Twice. Until it succeeded. I heard that I endured those changes very well, I wasn't sick for long. So I was considered as a kid with great resistance and chosen for other...more complicated experiments. There, it wasn't that easy. Way less easier."
There is also no absolute description in this matter about Geralt. We can assume though as quasi certain, that Geralt is meant to be not immune but much more resistant versus all such impacts. And he was a special witcher, no question, because he managed to survive the hardest treatments (as you correctly cited).
In general, where normal humans die or become sick instantly, he goes fairly well with it. If overall, like getting a light form flu, versus others would suffer a lot from a more or less deadly virus. That calls high resistance, not immunity. And certainly, it depends on the impacts and his then current condition. It can also be interpreted that he is "immune" to the deseases of the time, the game lore is doing it.
To all this comes the fact, that we play an old Geralt in Witcher 3. And also, when we allow to consider game lore as something valid, suffered/suffers from amnesia, which can also lead (interpreted) to additional impacts like physical malfunctions, which lowering conditions ... quasi (comparative) disfunctions, which but can be repaired.
And, the according descriptions in the books which you mention is from periods way way back in the past. And as said, there are passages where it is described that he suffers from his job where it stated that it comes also from potion consumption. Plus in one of the last books it is described how Vilgefortz made mincemeat out of him, and that he physically suffers from it also post Brokilon, where he got his "salvation", in all his following combat actions.
In sum, there is quite some interpretation possible for the Witcher 3 Geralt. But for example not, imo. at least, that he looks "now" like a young man and is fit like the young witcher, that he once was. Nonetheless, he has exceptionel abilities.
Also I have to say the game-lore is sometimes out of canon about his mutations, although they got right the fact that his mutations do not strip him of emotions (unlike netflix's Shitcher) they went too far when Vesemir died and he said he would cry if he could, well, in the books he is completely capable of crying, he shed a tear when he retrieved Ciri in LOTL.
And I disagree that we play an "old" Geralt, since in the Voice of Reason shortstories take place in 1252 and the very last shortstory Something More is 1264, when Ciri is about 12yo, that's not really "way back intime". And considering the five novels end in 1268 (peace of Cintra), that's only 4 years before the game's timeline.
Also since witchers are supposed to live very old, Vesemir being around 250-300yo and looking in his 50's and Geralt being 80-90yo when the games take place, I don't think he is supposed to be old there, he is still fairly in his prime, and should not even look a day older than 30-35yo.
To this belongs also the apparent timeline. Here is a more or less accurate one (German language though): Chronik
Geralt is born 1180. Witcher 3 starts 1275 (corrected date), so he is 95 along this timeline. His age is also mentioned by Vesemir in White Orchard in a dialog "...almost 100", so there the game is pretty accurate. Witcher 3 Wild Hunt ends 1277. We have then still HoS and BaW. One can probably agree that at the end of BaW he is almost 100 or rather above.
How and in what way the aging of witchers goes with their appearance, ie. skin aging etc., is imo. up to interpretation! Unless you have a reliable source. Also, there is no common rule. I would say, like in real life, one can interprete it so that this is actually very individual. For example Vesemir is mentioned to be a very exception in this regard, in so far that even the young witchers, aka Vesemir's "pupils" and everybody envy Vesemir for his agility!
Commonly, witchers have no easy life. They are almost always outside by wind and weather. Often might have not enough good food, good sleep etc.. and then the potion consumption, and job stress. Geralt is supposed to have had a hell of a time prior to the game's start, incl. extreme injuries and even almost death. That causes imprints. So we must agree to disagree in the matter of "fairly young appearance".
Anyways, mods or whatever productions, that show Geralt as young man of 20-25 are imo. complete nonsense ;)
Edit: Almost forgotten, please add the source, if you have one, that says Vesemir is 250-300 years old, and that witchers can get such age, and much more. After all Vesemir looks like 50'ish, so he would have still a good time in front? I could only find the indicator "Vesemir ... probably older than Kaer Morhen itself", but that could have been also a joke about the teacher. I guessed him around 150, just when Geralt was let's say 12 as he came to Kaer Morhen, Vesemir was the experienced trainer.
Edit2: In 'Blood of Elves' seems to be a quite close description of Geralt's according appearance. As Triss meets him again after a longer time, and thinks '... face full of wrinkles ...'.
Likewise, the same passage tells about '... mutation hinders the physical aging ...' but '... not the psychological...'.
When I say Geralt is around 80 in the books I do also agree that he is in his 90's in the games when Vesemir reminds him.
The issue is, that his birth-date was never confirmed or canonically mentioned (canon being just the books or Sapkowski himself), and the games just took that assumption (CDPR did wonderful, just saying). But I agree about him being in his late 90's at the end of DLC's, assuming BaW takes place a couple years after the main story.
I never said that Geralt is "fairly young", I said "fairly in his prime" which is reffering to his habilities and skill, which I based uppon the same excerpt that says that Vesemir's agility could make 20yo men envious. (not witchers btw)
The productions that show Geralt as a young man of 20-25yo are also nonsense to me (except depictions of the shortstories, especially Grain of Truth) but the productions or mods that make him look 50-60 are even more nonsense.
Entering in Kaer Morhen in BoE, Triss says this.
"He had changed. He gave the impression of having aged. Triss knew that it was biologically impossible. Sure, witchers aged, but at a pace too slow for simple mortals or a mage like her to notice the effects of time on them. Nonetheless it took her just a glance to understand that the mutation can slow down the physical process, but not the psychological one. Geralt's face, weathered with wrinkles, was flagrant proof of that"
Now that leaves room for interpretation, so I don't think there is a right/wrong answer, but if "mortals or mages like her" can't notice the effects of time on them, I'm surely positive that witchers live way longer than just 2/3 times more than the lifespan of an average human. (especially in medieval times)
So my interpretation of this is that Geralt's face aged, but there is limits to that, a 30yo man can look older than he is, but he will never look as a 70yo man, if anything, I interpret his wrinkles as signs of fatigue and hard-life, more like the common joke about men before and after having kids, that's why I think he looks around 35 in the books and maybe 40 in the games, so basically CDPR imo, nailed his appearance age-wise, around 40ish, and also maybe the only thing that Cavill has physically in common with Geralt from the books. Being wrinkled doesn't mean you look like an old man, it's more or less that your facial expressions show some aging. (as I was just rewatching True Detective recently, Matthew McConaughey's is really wrinkled and he still looks fairly young but was 44 at that time)
As for Vesemir, my source about him being 250-300yo is the same as your own source about him being 150, which is nothing but interpretations.
The mention of him potentially being older than Kaer Morhen does not come from a joke or any characters, it's the narrator himself (through Triss's POV still)
"Yes, Vesemir was really old. Who knows if he wasn't older than Kaer Morhen"
Now this makes me question my own interpretation of him looking in his 50's, Sapkowski often uses very specific terms, and "really old" sounds more like he looks around 70yo, if he trully looked 50, I think he would have been described as just "old" and there is still a contrast between him and Geralt, which would not be the same as if he looked 50 and Geralt around 40. After she says that Geralt looks older, not old.
"in so far that even the young witchers, aka Vesemir's "pupils" and everybody envy Vesemir for his agility!"
Not really the text just after that says "He came towards her, in a quick, energetic, and agile step" and later on "VEsemir was a witcher. That he was also a man of a very advanced age didn't change anything to the fact that young people might envy him for his health" not agility, and while I don't think the younger witchers could beat him (except Geralt maybe) because of his skill and experience, I don't think they'd envy his agility.
So from what we've gathered here, I think it's safe to say that Geralt is between 80-100, looks like a wrinkled 35-40yo, and if we assume that very healthy normal humans can live up to 110-120 years, I'd say that witchers can indeed reach 300 years old and maybe even more. As to Vesemir, if he looks 70-80yo, then I'd say it's safe to assume that he is around 200-250yo.
My "short" commentation still to some points.
- Single researchers can be admired, no question, for all the work they did. But better don't take it as "peer reviewed", aka a most reliable source. They can't serve as such. The guy also does not claim reliability, and has provided even two different timeline interpretations. Nonetheless, I like what and how he did it, good work, but it won't be my new The Witcher timeline bible.
- Wiki (fan) pages are at least quasi "peer reviewed", aka constantly under observation and thus receive corrections/improvements. Thus consequently must be rather preferred vs single researchers. Until there is (merely unexpected) a consensus by Witcher/Sapkowski experts, that a single researcher did it better than a source that gathers specific information all the time (or just as purpose of its existence). While that is a contradiction, because normally one would assume that the place where information is gathered would take over the consent results of a researchment. So here we must agree to disagree again, when you say, that this is your overall valid source for dates.
- And actually "safe" is here imo. almost nothing. You were rather right when and where you mention "room for interpretation". Here refering mainly to the question, the outward appearance of Geralt.
- So speaking of W3: Depicting him (his face) typically as around 35-40 or around 45-50 or even around 55-60 can be imo. assumed as plausible, just feasable and believable. But fe. i do not like mods which make him look as aged as Vesemir or even older. While the main issue is rather that Vesemir looks relatively too young. Instead of seeing still new Geralt face mods, somebody capable should show mercy and make a proper Vesemir face mod ;) And Geralt looking younger than 35 for W3 WH incl. HoS and BaW does not go for my personal "lore realism" feeling.
- As for Vesemir "agility" or "health" ... you are right, and that's exactly the passage i referred to, but quite inaccurate described. While the point was not that, but just Vesemir's exceptionel person in this whole regard.
- We can't know how old a usual or special witcher actually can get. It's open to interpretations as there is probably not a single reliable source.
That said, i enjoyed this discussion very much, thanks a lot!
Closing notes to the theme "sources" and according authencity in productions, which are just re-productions and interpretations of the books:
I ignore the Netflix The Witcher show, since i observed the pre-release/development period. It's rather wannabe Hollywood persiflage to me. Not intending to hurt the makers, they certainly tried their best, the results are but not my taste.
I completely agree, of course, that the books are the only valid sources. While i also believe that a) Sapkowski made some inaccuracies here and there, what can happen also easily when doing that much short stories & novels with such complex stuff, b) quite something leaves room for interpretation, and that can also be seen as advantage (fe. otherwise CDPR had an even greater problem in or with their productions in diverse respects).
The CDPR Witcher teams made roughly viewed a very good job, despite the many flaws.