v0009 is a major leap forward in speed. I am using a much more advanced technique to thread the code which has yielded significant improvements when scanning large dense areas.
BUGGY.
If it seems like the mod isn't picking something up it should - it's because the game isn't feeding it too it. Some lists in the mod may not be complete (could have missed something on my end) and some objects in the game may not be tagged correctly (or at all) - such as some turrets lacking the "ActorTypeTurret" keyword. I tried to account for edge cases but that is chasing ghosts and I probably didn't catch them all.
RANGE.
You can go a lot more nuts now that you could before! My personal settings are manual scanning only, 500.0m range, 6000.0s timeout, filters based on need. That being said, it still takes time but it's getting better. Standing on the roof of the main building in the middle of Akila City with all filters and actions enabled, stealing enabled, clear ownership enabled it took my potato system 204 seconds to loot the place clean.
DONT RUN LIKE A MADMAN.
Okay, I said I made leaps forward in speed with v0009 but the engine is still slow by any measure. Also, you'll just outrun the loaded area and the looting context will be invalid as objects are unloaded behind you before the looting script gets to processing them. I suggest turning "NotifyOnComplete" on so that you can get feedback on that. If you see the scan times climb, slow down, lower the range, etc.
DO NOT POUR ANTIFREEZE - EVER!
Antifreeze was an early "oh s#*!" mechanism which was not really safe nor effective at protecting from unwanted asteroid impacts. Neither did it help LSSL all that much. Thankfully with better understanding and better code comes less of a need for "oh s#*!" break out code.
The TL;DR is, don't use it - it WILL break saves using v0004 or later!
If you pour Antifreeze WITHOUT me asking you to, then I will not provide any support at all as you have probably thrown the mod into a garbage state.
If you poured Antifreeze BECAUSE I asked you, then I will not provide any support at all as I have probably thrown the mod into a garbage state; however, I apologize and will donate 25 credits to Huong Le next time I'm in Neon.
Doesn't matter, as of v0009 you can't.
You may need to start a new character or wait until stepping into Unity to upgrade.
Unity will reset everything in the base game and all mods, including LSSL.
Standard Upgrade Instructions:
1) Optional: Run the LSSL Settings Export Command (0003 and later) to generate the Import Commands
2) Remove the current ESM package* 3) Install the new ESM package* 4) Make sure it's the same load order slot in Plugins.txt
Starfield is a very delicate flower and is looking for an excuse to break. Never run the game without the ESM installed and active in the same mod load order slot for a save that it has already been running on. You can and most likely WILL break your save. This is true of all mods, not just LSSL.
I think I encountered a bug!
If something seemingly goes wrong with the mod you need to do a few things so I can diagnose the issue and have any hope of fixing it:
If you have the mod verbosity already set to 3 or higher, skip to step 3 1) Load your last save before the issue occurred. 2) Turn the mod verbosity up to 3 using the console command: cgf "LSSL:Interface.SetIntControl" "Verbosity" 3
3) Run the export command: cgf "LSSL:Interface.GenerateSettingsExport" 4) Go back to the area you ran into a problem with and try to recreate the conditions from when you encountered the issue. 5) Run the loot scan so the mod can collect the data I need to diagnose the issue. 6) Wait* for the scan to complete or until a couple minutes after the problem occurs. 7) Exit the game. 8) Go to the logs folder - Windows users: %UserProfile%\Documents\My Games\Starfield\Logs\Script 9) Copy Papyrus.0.log, User\LSSL.0.log and, User\LSSL_Settings.0.log to somewhere safe - preferably neatly packaged into a single zip (or similar archive)
* Not the Wait/Sleep menu/action in the game, just take your hands of the controls and twiddle your thumbs for a few minutes.
Reporting on Nexus: 10) Open up the Nexus to this mod and go to the 'Bugs' tab 11) Create a new bug report with a brief description of the issue and attach the log files from step 9
Reporting on Discord: 10) Join the Annex The Commonwealth Discord Server (if you are not already a member) 11) Mention you have a bug with LSSL and a brief description of the issue. Attach the zip with the log files inside of it (preferred) from step 9
Using Discord will yield quicker responses than the Nexus as long as I am online. Also, Nexus doesn't allow user file attachments so you need to use a 3rd party hosting site for an archive, a text post site (like pastebin) or, copy-paste walls of text (gawd, please no) from the log files into code blocks in the bug report (if you must do it this way, please use the bbcode code block formatting for the logs).
I don't know why, but when the mod picks up Gunslinger's Guide 04 from the Freestar Rangers Outpost in Neon city it is marked as a stolen item. It doesn't count as stolen if I pick it up manually. Any clue? I don't have stealing filter on and I'm running a playthrough with 0 stolen items so that's the only reason I'm mentioning this for people that don't want to accidentally steal stuff. EDIT: Same thing happened with "Neon Nights 05" Magazine once I entered Xenofresh building, it's marked as stolen.. best keep the autoloot paused when in cities I guess
Thanks again - loving this mod! I've been having an issue since the Feb patch - the scanner gets hung in cancelling state with 50 or so threads still running. save / load does nothing - I have to disable the mod, load and save, then re-enable the mod. Thankfully that seems to reset whatever is getting stuck
Don't disable the mod and remove it like that, it will leave garbage in your save file. Just temporarily boost the maximum number of threads allowed when it does that - Be sure to do it in small increments (no more than 5 at a time) until the mod unblocks itself. I have it patched on my end but never got around to releasing the last updates, I kind of lost interest in Starfield. :\
Is there a way to remove the permanent elemental pull effect from around my character? May be a side effect of auto scan or mining, any help is appreciated :)
Awesome mod. I no longer need to spend a lot of time searching for the loot.
In my case specifically, I disabled AutoScan and I use a shortcut to call for the looting to run.
I have a question though. What happens if I set SetAllFilters to false and call for TryScanNow? When I tested it seemed to do nothing.
If that is true, than I have a suggestion. I am guessing that whenever a scan starts, it grabs the items in range, and then, based on it's type, goes through all of them and checks against the filter list to decide if they should be looted or not.
My suggestion would be that if SetAllFilters is set to false and a call to TryScanNow happens, it loots everything without checking the lists. Sure, it would still check for stealing and smugling, but would not look into the lists. This should be faster to loot as it does not go through the lists and we would not need to look into exceptions which are not properly added to some list.
Ok, I just checked Papyrus documentation and saw that the methods to find references actually need a list of possible object, it does not look for all in range.
I guess, nothing to do there.
For some reason, I felt like Dheuster's mod for FO4 which does something similar was a bit faster when collecting the objects.
What happens if I set SetAllFilters to false and call for TryScanNow? erm, if you tell the mod to do nothing and then ask it do what you asked (nothing), I wonder what it will do? (hint: nothing) ¬¸¬ Seriously though, I have no idea what you expect if you set all the filters to false. It won't take long for it to go through the top level loop of all the filters when you ask it to do a scan, but it won't start any threads for them because you disabled them all. I can't believe I had to explain this. :\
I am guessing that whenever a scan starts, it grabs the items in range, and then, based on it's type, goes through all of them and checks against the filter list to decide if they should be looted or not. Ok, I just checked Papyrus documentation... Each filter grabs it's own items and only items for it's filter. They each have their own lists of base objects and keywords. Even if there was a "give me everything around me" and that would be an incredibly BAD idea. I worked very hard to get the minimal number of objects so I don't have to waste time discarding items in the slow Papyrus VM when the engine can do it natively much faster (nanoseconds vs minutes). Even so, I still have to do several different checks, each of which induce single frame delays (synchronization) because the objects are enabled and visible.
This should be faster to loot as it does not go through the lists and we would not need to look into exceptions which are not properly added to some list. Exactly the opposite is true, trust me. I have already optimized the mod about as much as it's going to get without rewriting it as a native SFSE dll based mod and I am not interested enough in Starfield to put in that sort of effort.
For some reason, I felt like Dheuster's mod for FO4 which does something similar was a bit faster when collecting the objects. Okay? You are comparing apples and oranges. The Creation Engine 2 (Starfield) is not the Creation Engine (Fallout 4). Not every change makes things faster. The general performance and the Papyrus specific performance in Starfield is much worse than Fallout 4. Aside from that, I have no idea what mod you are talking about and you didn't even link to it for me to look at to see what differences there are in our code.
tbh, I am not sure what you are looking for. I have gone to great lengths to get this mod to be as fast as possible and it is much faster than it's initial release. Currently there is no other looting mod for Starfield that combines all of the options mine does, at least as far as I am aware of.
If you really want to look, the source has been included in the (ba2) archive of every release.
Although it saddens me to see all the free sarcasm, but well. It is your mod and your choice of words. I was the one to ask the questions. I guess I got what I asked for.
As for the questions, I was not aware of the differences between FO4 and SF performance differences. I wrongly expected the performance to be at least the same. I guess maybe it will improve when modding support is officially released.
The mod that I mentioned uses calls for FindAllReferencesOfType several times with some form lists. And, after re-reading this mod description page, I can see that you are most likely using FindAllReferencesWithKeyword which indeed is a smarter way of getting the items. If you are curious about said mod, it has a feature called Gather Loose Items, the mod is quite big and does many things. You can find the mod page here and the specific source code here.
And cheer man. I did not post the message with the intent of criticizing, but trying to understand and hope to find a solution that would best fit my play style while maybe giving clues for improvements based on other mod from a similar title.
Thanks again for taking the time to answer. OldBard.
Although it saddens me to see all the free sarcasm, but well. It is your mod and your choice of words. I was the one to ask the questions. I guess I got what I asked for. Well, the answer to the first part was quite sarcastic but it seemed like a silly question to ask "if I turn everything off what will happen?" The other responses, I wasn't being sarcastic at all.
I was not aware of the differences between FO4 and SF performance differences. I wrongly expected the performance to be at least the same. I guess maybe it will improve when modding support is officially released. Unfortunately, that won't happen. Grab a coffee and get ready for a brain dump...
In both Fallout 4 and Starfield (Creation Engine (CE) and Creation Engine 2 (CE2)) there is a system called "PackIns". A PackIn is a helper object that is a collection of other objects. Did you put a table in your dungeon? Need some clutter for it? There are tons of PackIns for table clutter or if you are bored, you can manually clutter the table. That clutter PackIn, when dropped on the table, actually creates all the individual objects in the PackIn separately. It's only use is to pre-create object combinations. Drop one in as a generic package, fiddle the objects to your specific needs/tastes. Okay, great - super time saver for level designers - throw down the basics, clutter it with PackIns. What's the problem?
Well, with CE - these are purely editor objects, meaning they are only accessible in the Creation Kit (CK). A dungeon is laid out and cluttered up. Then, the designer optimizes the dungeon by generating "precombined" objects. This is where the CK goes through the entire dungeon and combines objects that don't need (a) individual or (b) any handling by the game engine - such as walls, floors, that table, etc. It combines their visual and physics geometries so the game itself can quickly handle them while at the same time, all those precombined objects never show up as actual objects in the game (and cannot be selected in the console). Things like doors and chests, loose ammo, etc are not included in this process for obvious reasons. The next step in optimizing the dungeon is generating "Previs" or "predetermined visibility" which, in laymen's terms, tells the game "you can't see this at this angle from this area, don't bother rendering it" so it only needs to render what the player has in front of them and isn't obscured.
Sounds great, right? Big fancy dungeon that is optimized down to what objects the game engine (player) needs to interact with and hints on when not to render things. Well, NONE of that happens in CE2. With Starfield, the PackIn system pulls the objects in right in the game. Every wall, table, smear of dirt, etc is an individual object the game has to handle. There is no visibility or object handling optimizations of any kind. All of that is calculated frame-by-frame in real time.
So, why would they do this? Because of procedural generation. By having PackIns get pulled in by the engine and plonked down wholesale, they can do other things with them. eg, they can have "connection links" that remove portions of one PackIn to accommodate another one being "attached" to it. Those artifacts in "regular" dungeons? The dungeon itself is a PackIn they randomly picked and plopped down on the world map and how the artifact part works within the dungeon itself. They don't need to design every possible combination of dungeon, they can just have a tree of "what can be attached here" and build it like that. Super powerful system that level designers are going to be able to harness for pure awesome once the CK2 comes out.
Unfortunately this means if we created the same dungeon in both engines but took advantage of the optimizations available in CE, a 10000 object dungeon may be reduced down to 1000 or so of actual interactable objects with the rest precombined into a hundred or so "lighter" objects only for rendering and physics with the dungeon as a whole having visual optimization hints to further "do less" in a given frame, where as with CE2 - it is 10000 individual objects that each must be handled separately every frame.
But that's the objects and rendering, what does that have to do with Papyrus and Scripting? The Papyrus Virtual Machine has the lowest priority of the game engines many subsystems. It's not meant to have actual programs written in it but just have a couple lines or a small function to perform a simple task so a frame or two delay in processing item handling wouldn't normally be an issue. Under both engines if you have 100 items to process, because the underlying scene load is different in the game engine, the "same" script take longer to run in CE2 than CE. Note, this hobbling wasn't intentional, they never set out to make Papyrus run slower; it's a by-product of them taking a massive dump on the graphics and physics pipelines which causes everything else to slow down as rendering and physics have the highest priority in the game engine.
The mod that I mentioned... So, I had a look at that mod and it's not doing things much different than I did with LSSL at the beginning and in some ways it's overall performance would be much worse in the same conditions as it does not thread the code at all. LSSL has almost 50 looting filters, each one is run in it's own parallel thread. Each of those further threads itself if there is a lot of items to process within it's filter. AFT runs the looting in a single thread, each filter after the other and it doesn't thread the item handling either. If it was ported to Starfield with no changes to the logic/algorithm - For a very small handful of items, it might get better performance by not having overhead of starting new threads; but for large arrays of objects I guarantee it will be no where near as fast as LSSL; it wouldn't even be a close race. How can I guarantee this is the case? Because the very basic "loop (in a loop (in a loop)) 'till done" method AFT uses is how LSSL started.
Additionally, the looting feature presented in AFT is no where near as complete or robust as LSSL For example, AFT grabs everything in a container, LSSL looks at each item in the container and checks if it's allowed by the enabled filters. LSSL does a LOT of inventory management for you, AFT does NONE. That is to say, that also takes time and makes it an apples-to-oranges comparison.
I did not post the message with the intent of criticizing, but trying to understand and hope to find a solution that would best fit my play style while maybe giving clues for improvements based on other mod from a similar title. I didn't take it as criticism so much as "argument from ignorance" - no offense intended. Trust me, I never anticipated how slow Papyrus would be in CE2 compared to CE which is rather sad as CE made huge improvements over the older Skyrim engine with regards to rendering and Papyrus performance. That is, I also made "assumptions from ignorance" and had to do a major refactor around v0003 because of the poor performance.
Ok, about the responses, no worries, I did not take it personaly.
I did not know that Starfield did not optimise the game for occlusion culling. I am quite surprised, as this is a very basic optimisation method. I guessed there would be some issues with precombines, as the meshes are merged, if even one object is seem, the whole mesh is rendered. I understand their reasoning there, but with GPU Instancing, it might be ok not to pre combine that much and go back to a culling approach.
Thanks for the explanation regarding how they went on for setting up their dynamic content, or procedural generation. I understand their thinking, but indeed, it does harm the modding community a lot.
Would that also affect SFSE performance? Or would it be just as bad as it was on FO4?
About that mod. What you wrote here: "AFT grabs everything in a container, LSSL looks at each item in the container and checks if it's allowed by the enabled filters. LSSL does a LOT of inventory management for you, AFT does NONE" is exactly the behaviour I wanted when disabling the filters. I have no issue getting everything if I disable the filtering. What your code is doing is checking the results of the Find methods against a white list. If there is no checking against that, and if there is no check about where it should go, the char inventory or the ships, it should be a cheaper algorithm.
Does it make sense?
Thanks again for sharing all the information. It actually helps me understand some of the issues I had with modding in FO4.
I have no issue getting everything if I disable the filtering. That is the exact opposite of how this mod functions. You turn ON the things you want to pick up by the specific filter. If you turn OFF all the filters you will pick up nothing.
What your code is doing is checking the results of the Find methods against a white list. No it is not. At least, not in the way you are presenting that assertion. Please look at the source before commenting on what the code is doing.
If there is no checking against that, and if there is no check about where it should go, the char inventory or the ships, it should be a cheaper algorithm. Look mate, you haven't even looked at the code to see what it's doing and how it works. Nor have you profiled the code to see where it's being delayed - I have - intensively. As far as "a cheaper algorithm" goes, first it has to do the thing; removing functionality doesn't make a "cheaper algorithm" is makes it "an incorrect algorithm that does not do what it supposed to do". Given it must do a thing, any talk about not doing the thing is a non-starter.
LSSL does a LOT of inventory management for you, AFT does NONE" is exactly the behaviour I wanted when disabling the filters. That is a single command line away and in the readme. Turn off the "ToShip" option for all filters. fwiw, using this or not does NOT impact the speed of the looting AT ALL.
Seriously dude, the mod can loot an entire interior dungeon in about 30 seconds on my computer and a large exterior dungeon in around 90 seconds on the FIRST scan, subsequent scans are MUCH faster because the mod sets "I already looted this" flag on objects and checks that first so it doesn't repeat work. I don't know why you think this is slow other than having the most insanely unrealistic expectations imaginable.
Thanks for this fabulous and flexible mod! So well thought out and even documented!! Huge thanks!
Quick tips if you are confused like I was lol
By default, this mod should auto loot, hack and unlock stuff within a radius while your scanner is open. For some reason, it wasn't doing anything at first.. might be when I loaded it, not sure, but after forcing a scan snf setting my settings, it works great! It is controlled through the console.
I wanted it to simply save my poor 'E' key from wearing out (and the tedium of hunting down containers...) - in other words, loot everything to my inventory that is nearby. I did not want doors or terminals unlocked since This is often part of a story or mission. I use the universal stash with huge carry weight on me, so sending things to the ship makes no sense for my playstyle at present.
This sets a 25(m?) scan radius, give it 90 seconds to complete (1.5 minutes - sometimes there are a LOT of bodies lol). Disabled ship sending, turn on looting to inventory for everything, enabled looting contraband, disables unlocking doors or terminals.
Just run in console and it will persist (Note the settings after the gap are the defaults just in case they got scrambled) cgf "LSSL:Interface.SetFloatControl" "ScanRadius" 25.0 cgf "LSSL:Interface.SetFloatControl" "ScanTimeout" 90.0 cgf "LSSL:Interface.SetAllFiltersByAction" "ToShip" false cgf "LSSL:Interface.SetAllFiltersByAction" "Loot" true cgf "LSSL:Interface.SetAllFiltersByAction" "Smuggle" true cgf "LSSL:Interface.SetFilter" "Doors" false cgf "LSSL:Interface.SetFilter" "Terminals" false cgf "LSSL:Interface.SetBoolControl" "NotifyOnComplete" true
Finally, to kick off a scan, run the command cgf "LSSL:Interface.TryScanNow" false true
It seems after doing this, it starting working. I'm still not sure how you trigger a scan when auto mode is off; nor am I sure if scanning stops when you close the scanner - need to check or ask. Will update when I know.
UPDATE: Because the looting process is fairly time consuming, I'm leaning toward only triggering it using a hotkey and waiting for it to finish. Especially since I likes to steal 😈.
Will be interested to see how this changes gameplay when I don't have to spend so much time tapping e lol
For some reason, it wasn't doing anything at first Do you mean right at the start of the game (before getting access to the Frontier) or to a more established save game? I thought I fixed the former, the latter would be a bug.
I'm still not sure how you trigger a scan when auto mode is off You setup a Hotkey to run the console command to start a scan. Thankfully Console Hotkeys is not an extra mod per-say, just vanilla functionality that needs to be enabled.
Because the looting process is fairly time consuming Depends on how greedy you are, you thieving space hobo.
Will be interested to see how this changes gameplay ermagurd - I got sick of that hacking/picking mini game and hitboxes on mining nodes being so friggen wonky - it makes the game playable depending on the type of annoyance you are looting to bypass.
Ok, this is my new favorite mod and needs more love!
I suggest renaming it to the friggin Inception mod 😊
I LOVE the explosions and sheer chaos when looting outposts, it reminds me of the scene from inception where the city explodes around Ariadne. So freaking cool.
This is awesome. I've changed that space distance loot setting you mentioned, and it's HUGELY EASIER, just with that in space. FYI folks, take a look at that setting if space looting makes you nuts. There's a mod that does it for you over here: https://www.nexusmods.com/starfield/mods/1013.
I enjoy the big explosions of the barrels and stuff, and I suspect that started about the time the mod turned on flora looting. I'm not sure, but I wouldn't be surprised to see that was when that issue appeared.
The purge of invisible items fix seems to have helped the performance. No longer two seconds of stutter when looting over 1k items.
Right now, I can only think of a Missable Item Looting. Right now it seems like some of the journals from the Kryx Legacy quest fall into non-lootable space during the docking and combat motion. They are unique and only exist in that single zone. Not sure how this would be done, maybe a recognition of other items in the zone that are unique to trigger a count of the items? or a quest list?
As mentioned repeatedly before, quest items are specifically added to filter exclusion lists as to not break quests. If you want to risk breaking a quest by auto-looting them then add them specifically to the "Custom" filter - that's what it's for.
Hello. First of all, the mod is wonderful. But I have a little problem and hope you can help me. I have all the loot options on and every time I enter a settlement or building and turn on the scanner, it not only loots the items but also causes the explosive barrels etc. to explode. Do I have to set a loot option to off so that this doesn't happen?
That's because those objects are tagged with the keywords that cause them to explode when using Elemental Pull, which is used for auto-mining. Nothing I can do (read: will do) about that, you need a mod to make those objects specifically not respond to that keyword.
ok so i have an issue and im not sure if its from this mod or something else... its not really a major problem i mean i have the whole auto loot working and all.. but there is a annoying sound.. not sure if its when im picking up something special.. or what but it ticks off like a machine gun untill the area im looting is done looting... is there a way to turn that sound off?
other then that the mod works great... just need to figure out how to get rid of that annoying noise.. again im not sure if its something to do with this mod or if its just part of the orignial game any info would be helpful thx
In order to auto-mine, the mod invokes the Starborn power Elemental Pull. Mining requires activation by a weapon or spell with a specific keyword and I have not looked into how to replicate the spell at the time of this writing. This means you will get the sound effect from the Elemental Pull spell for every mining node around you. For everything else the mod just plays the visual effect from that spell without the sound and directly loots it.
For now, you will just have to live with it, or temporarily mute the game audio while looting around mining nodes.
Come January I will have more time to look into things like this but along with invisible bodies [insert old man muttering and cursing sounds here] - it's one of those "minor inconveniences" we all just have to live with for now.
If not before, when the Starfield Creation Kit (SFCK) comes out hopefully I will be able to completely replicate the effect for mining without the sound but as of writing this I have not yet figured out how to do so correctly.
ok thx for the info.. i might just disable mining for the time being i really only wanted auto loot for the stuff that clutters the inside areas... for such items like ammo and what not... thx for the fast reply as well... other then that its a great mod thx again
210 comments
Starfield is SLOW and BUGGY!
SLOW. But I'm whipping that pig!
v0009 is a major leap forward in speed. I am using a much more advanced technique to thread the code which has yielded significant improvements when scanning large dense areas.
BUGGY.
If it seems like the mod isn't picking something up it should - it's because the game isn't feeding it too it. Some lists in the mod may not be complete (could have missed something on my end) and some objects in the game may not be tagged correctly (or at all) - such as some turrets lacking the "ActorTypeTurret" keyword. I tried to account for edge cases but that is chasing ghosts and I probably didn't catch them all.
RANGE.
You can go a lot more nuts now that you could before! My personal settings are manual scanning only, 500.0m range, 6000.0s timeout, filters based on need. That being said, it still takes time but it's getting better. Standing on the roof of the main building in the middle of Akila City with all filters and actions enabled, stealing enabled, clear ownership enabled it took my potato system 204 seconds to loot the place clean.
DONT RUN LIKE A MADMAN.
Okay, I said I made leaps forward in speed with v0009 but the engine is still slow by any measure. Also, you'll just outrun the loaded area and the looting context will be invalid as objects are unloaded behind you before the looting script gets to processing them. I suggest turning "NotifyOnComplete" on so that you can get feedback on that. If you see the scan times climb, slow down, lower the range, etc.
DO NOT POUR ANTIFREEZE - EVER!
Antifreeze was an early "oh s#*!" mechanism which was not really safe nor effective at protecting from unwanted asteroid impacts. Neither did it help LSSL all that much. Thankfully with better understanding and better code comes less of a need for "oh s#*!" break out code.
The TL;DR is, don't use it - it WILL break saves using v0004 or later!
If you pour Antifreeze WITHOUT me asking you to, then I will not provide any support at all as you have probably thrown the mod into a garbage state.
If you poured Antifreeze BECAUSE I asked you, then I will not provide any support at all as I have probably thrown the mod into a garbage state; however, I apologize and will donate 25 credits to Huong Le next time I'm in Neon.
Doesn't matter, as of v0009 you can't.
You may need to start a new character or wait until stepping into Unity to upgrade.
Unity will reset everything in the base game and all mods, including LSSL.
Standard Upgrade Instructions:
1) Optional: Run the LSSL Settings Export Command (0003 and later) to generate the Import Commands
2) Remove the current ESM package*
3) Install the new ESM package*
4) Make sure it's the same load order slot in Plugins.txt
5) Optional: Run the Import Commands you Exported
* Everything inside the archives \Data\ directory maintaining it's exact structure.
The game is what it is.
Starfield is a very delicate flower and is looking for an excuse to break. Never run the game without the ESM installed and active in the same mod load order slot for a save that it has already been running on. You can and most likely WILL break your save. This is true of all mods, not just LSSL.
I think I encountered a bug!
If something seemingly goes wrong with the mod you need to do a few things so I can diagnose the issue and have any hope of fixing it:
If you have the mod verbosity already set to 3 or higher, skip to step 3
1) Load your last save before the issue occurred.
2) Turn the mod verbosity up to 3 using the console command: cgf "LSSL:Interface.SetIntControl" "Verbosity" 3
3) Run the export command: cgf "LSSL:Interface.GenerateSettingsExport"
4) Go back to the area you ran into a problem with and try to recreate the conditions from when you encountered the issue.
5) Run the loot scan so the mod can collect the data I need to diagnose the issue.
6) Wait* for the scan to complete or until a couple minutes after the problem occurs.
7) Exit the game.
8) Go to the logs folder - Windows users: %UserProfile%\Documents\My Games\Starfield\Logs\Script
9) Copy Papyrus.0.log, User\LSSL.0.log and, User\LSSL_Settings.0.log to somewhere safe - preferably neatly packaged into a single zip (or similar archive)
* Not the Wait/Sleep menu/action in the game, just take your hands of the controls and twiddle your thumbs for a few minutes.
Reporting on Nexus:
10) Open up the Nexus to this mod and go to the 'Bugs' tab
11) Create a new bug report with a brief description of the issue and attach the log files from step 9
Reporting on Discord:
10) Join the Annex The Commonwealth Discord Server (if you are not already a member)
11) Mention you have a bug with LSSL and a brief description of the issue. Attach the zip with the log files inside of it (preferred) from step 9
Using Discord will yield quicker responses than the Nexus as long as I am online. Also, Nexus doesn't allow user file attachments so you need to use a 3rd party hosting site for an archive, a text post site (like pastebin) or, copy-paste walls of text (gawd, please no) from the log files into code blocks in the bug report (if you must do it this way, please use the bbcode code block formatting for the logs).
EDIT: Same thing happened with "Neon Nights 05" Magazine once I entered Xenofresh building, it's marked as stolen.. best keep the autoloot paused when in cities I guess
item.WouldBeStealing( PlayerRef )So...I dunno - lolI've been having an issue since the Feb patch - the scanner gets hung in cancelling state with 50 or so threads still running. save / load does nothing - I have to disable the mod, load and save, then re-enable the mod. Thankfully that seems to reset whatever is getting stuck
In my case specifically, I disabled AutoScan and I use a shortcut to call for the looting to run.
I have a question though. What happens if I set SetAllFilters to false and call for TryScanNow? When I tested it seemed to do nothing.
If that is true, than I have a suggestion. I am guessing that whenever a scan starts, it grabs the items in range, and then, based on it's type, goes through all of them and checks against the filter list to decide if they should be looted or not.
My suggestion would be that if SetAllFilters is set to false and a call to TryScanNow happens, it loots everything without checking the lists. Sure, it would still check for stealing and smugling, but would not look into the lists. This should be faster to loot as it does not go through the lists and we would not need to look into exceptions which are not properly added to some list.
Cheers,
OldBard
I guess, nothing to do there.
For some reason, I felt like Dheuster's mod for FO4 which does something similar was a bit faster when collecting the objects.
erm, if you tell the mod to do nothing and then ask it do what you asked (nothing), I wonder what it will do? (hint: nothing) ¬¸¬ Seriously though, I have no idea what you expect if you set all the filters to false. It won't take long for it to go through the top level loop of all the filters when you ask it to do a scan, but it won't start any threads for them because you disabled them all. I can't believe I had to explain this. :\
I am guessing that whenever a scan starts, it grabs the items in range, and then, based on it's type, goes through all of them and checks against the filter list to decide if they should be looted or not.
Ok, I just checked Papyrus documentation...
Each filter grabs it's own items and only items for it's filter. They each have their own lists of base objects and keywords. Even if there was a "give me everything around me" and that would be an incredibly BAD idea. I worked very hard to get the minimal number of objects so I don't have to waste time discarding items in the slow Papyrus VM when the engine can do it natively much faster (nanoseconds vs minutes). Even so, I still have to do several different checks, each of which induce single frame delays (synchronization) because the objects are enabled and visible.
This should be faster to loot as it does not go through the lists and we would not need to look into exceptions which are not properly added to some list.
Exactly the opposite is true, trust me. I have already optimized the mod about as much as it's going to get without rewriting it as a native SFSE dll based mod and I am not interested enough in Starfield to put in that sort of effort.
For some reason, I felt like Dheuster's mod for FO4 which does something similar was a bit faster when collecting the objects.
Okay? You are comparing apples and oranges. The Creation Engine 2 (Starfield) is not the Creation Engine (Fallout 4). Not every change makes things faster. The general performance and the Papyrus specific performance in Starfield is much worse than Fallout 4. Aside from that, I have no idea what mod you are talking about and you didn't even link to it for me to look at to see what differences there are in our code.
tbh, I am not sure what you are looking for. I have gone to great lengths to get this mod to be as fast as possible and it is much faster than it's initial release. Currently there is no other looting mod for Starfield that combines all of the options mine does, at least as far as I am aware of.
If you really want to look, the source has been included in the (ba2) archive of every release.
Although it saddens me to see all the free sarcasm, but well. It is your mod and your choice of words. I was the one to ask the questions. I guess I got what I asked for.
As for the questions, I was not aware of the differences between FO4 and SF performance differences. I wrongly expected the performance to be at least the same. I guess maybe it will improve when modding support is officially released.
The mod that I mentioned uses calls for FindAllReferencesOfType several times with some form lists. And, after re-reading this mod description page, I can see that you are most likely using FindAllReferencesWithKeyword which indeed is a smarter way of getting the items. If you are curious about said mod, it has a feature called Gather Loose Items, the mod is quite big and does many things. You can find the mod page here and the specific source code here.
And cheer man. I did not post the message with the intent of criticizing, but trying to understand and hope to find a solution that would best fit my play style while maybe giving clues for improvements based on other mod from a similar title.
Thanks again for taking the time to answer.
OldBard.
Well, the answer to the first part was quite sarcastic but it seemed like a silly question to ask "if I turn everything off what will happen?" The other responses, I wasn't being sarcastic at all.
I was not aware of the differences between FO4 and SF performance differences. I wrongly expected the performance to be at least the same. I guess maybe it will improve when modding support is officially released.
Unfortunately, that won't happen. Grab a coffee and get ready for a brain dump...
In both Fallout 4 and Starfield (Creation Engine (CE) and Creation Engine 2 (CE2)) there is a system called "PackIns".
A PackIn is a helper object that is a collection of other objects. Did you put a table in your dungeon? Need some clutter for it? There are tons of PackIns for table clutter or if you are bored, you can manually clutter the table. That clutter PackIn, when dropped on the table, actually creates all the individual objects in the PackIn separately. It's only use is to pre-create object combinations. Drop one in as a generic package, fiddle the objects to your specific needs/tastes. Okay, great - super time saver for level designers - throw down the basics, clutter it with PackIns. What's the problem?
Well, with CE - these are purely editor objects, meaning they are only accessible in the Creation Kit (CK). A dungeon is laid out and cluttered up. Then, the designer optimizes the dungeon by generating "precombined" objects. This is where the CK goes through the entire dungeon and combines objects that don't need (a) individual or (b) any handling by the game engine - such as walls, floors, that table, etc. It combines their visual and physics geometries so the game itself can quickly handle them while at the same time, all those precombined objects never show up as actual objects in the game (and cannot be selected in the console). Things like doors and chests, loose ammo, etc are not included in this process for obvious reasons. The next step in optimizing the dungeon is generating "Previs" or "predetermined visibility" which, in laymen's terms, tells the game "you can't see this at this angle from this area, don't bother rendering it" so it only needs to render what the player has in front of them and isn't obscured.
Sounds great, right? Big fancy dungeon that is optimized down to what objects the game engine (player) needs to interact with and hints on when not to render things. Well, NONE of that happens in CE2. With Starfield, the PackIn system pulls the objects in right in the game. Every wall, table, smear of dirt, etc is an individual object the game has to handle. There is no visibility or object handling optimizations of any kind. All of that is calculated frame-by-frame in real time.
So, why would they do this?
Because of procedural generation. By having PackIns get pulled in by the engine and plonked down wholesale, they can do other things with them. eg, they can have "connection links" that remove portions of one PackIn to accommodate another one being "attached" to it. Those artifacts in "regular" dungeons? The dungeon itself is a PackIn they randomly picked and plopped down on the world map and how the artifact part works within the dungeon itself. They don't need to design every possible combination of dungeon, they can just have a tree of "what can be attached here" and build it like that. Super powerful system that level designers are going to be able to harness for pure awesome once the CK2 comes out.
Unfortunately this means if we created the same dungeon in both engines but took advantage of the optimizations available in CE, a 10000 object dungeon may be reduced down to 1000 or so of actual interactable objects with the rest precombined into a hundred or so "lighter" objects only for rendering and physics with the dungeon as a whole having visual optimization hints to further "do less" in a given frame, where as with CE2 - it is 10000 individual objects that each must be handled separately every frame.
But that's the objects and rendering, what does that have to do with Papyrus and Scripting?
The Papyrus Virtual Machine has the lowest priority of the game engines many subsystems. It's not meant to have actual programs written in it but just have a couple lines or a small function to perform a simple task so a frame or two delay in processing item handling wouldn't normally be an issue. Under both engines if you have 100 items to process, because the underlying scene load is different in the game engine, the "same" script take longer to run in CE2 than CE. Note, this hobbling wasn't intentional, they never set out to make Papyrus run slower; it's a by-product of them taking a massive dump on the graphics and physics pipelines which causes everything else to slow down as rendering and physics have the highest priority in the game engine.
The mod that I mentioned...
So, I had a look at that mod and it's not doing things much different than I did with LSSL at the beginning and in some ways it's overall performance would be much worse in the same conditions as it does not thread the code at all. LSSL has almost 50 looting filters, each one is run in it's own parallel thread. Each of those further threads itself if there is a lot of items to process within it's filter. AFT runs the looting in a single thread, each filter after the other and it doesn't thread the item handling either. If it was ported to Starfield with no changes to the logic/algorithm - For a very small handful of items, it might get better performance by not having overhead of starting new threads; but for large arrays of objects I guarantee it will be no where near as fast as LSSL; it wouldn't even be a close race. How can I guarantee this is the case? Because the very basic "loop (in a loop (in a loop)) 'till done" method AFT uses is how LSSL started.
Additionally, the looting feature presented in AFT is no where near as complete or robust as LSSL For example, AFT grabs everything in a container, LSSL looks at each item in the container and checks if it's allowed by the enabled filters. LSSL does a LOT of inventory management for you, AFT does NONE. That is to say, that also takes time and makes it an apples-to-oranges comparison.
I did not post the message with the intent of criticizing, but trying to understand and hope to find a solution that would best fit my play style while maybe giving clues for improvements based on other mod from a similar title.
I didn't take it as criticism so much as "argument from ignorance" - no offense intended. Trust me, I never anticipated how slow Papyrus would be in CE2 compared to CE which is rather sad as CE made huge improvements over the older Skyrim engine with regards to rendering and Papyrus performance. That is, I also made "assumptions from ignorance" and had to do a major refactor around v0003 because of the poor performance.
I did not know that Starfield did not optimise the game for occlusion culling. I am quite surprised, as this is a very basic optimisation method. I guessed there would be some issues with precombines, as the meshes are merged, if even one object is seem, the whole mesh is rendered. I understand their reasoning there, but with GPU Instancing, it might be ok not to pre combine that much and go back to a culling approach.
Thanks for the explanation regarding how they went on for setting up their dynamic content, or procedural generation. I understand their thinking, but indeed, it does harm the modding community a lot.
Would that also affect SFSE performance? Or would it be just as bad as it was on FO4?
About that mod. What you wrote here: "AFT grabs everything in a container, LSSL looks at each item in the container and checks if it's allowed by the enabled filters. LSSL does a LOT of inventory management for you, AFT does NONE" is exactly the behaviour I wanted when disabling the filters.
I have no issue getting everything if I disable the filtering. What your code is doing is checking the results of the Find methods against a white list. If there is no checking against that, and if there is no check about where it should go, the char inventory or the ships, it should be a cheaper algorithm.
Does it make sense?
Thanks again for sharing all the information. It actually helps me understand some of the issues I had with modding in FO4.
Cheers,
OldBard.
That is the exact opposite of how this mod functions. You turn ON the things you want to pick up by the specific filter. If you turn OFF all the filters you will pick up nothing.
What your code is doing is checking the results of the Find methods against a white list.
No it is not. At least, not in the way you are presenting that assertion. Please look at the source before commenting on what the code is doing.
If there is no checking against that, and if there is no check about where it should go, the char inventory or the ships, it should be a cheaper algorithm.
Look mate, you haven't even looked at the code to see what it's doing and how it works. Nor have you profiled the code to see where it's being delayed - I have - intensively. As far as "a cheaper algorithm" goes, first it has to do the thing; removing functionality doesn't make a "cheaper algorithm" is makes it "an incorrect algorithm that does not do what it supposed to do". Given it must do a thing, any talk about not doing the thing is a non-starter.
LSSL does a LOT of inventory management for you, AFT does NONE" is exactly the behaviour I wanted when disabling the filters.
That is a single command line away and in the readme. Turn off the "ToShip" option for all filters. fwiw, using this or not does NOT impact the speed of the looting AT ALL.
Seriously dude, the mod can loot an entire interior dungeon in about 30 seconds on my computer and a large exterior dungeon in around 90 seconds on the FIRST scan, subsequent scans are MUCH faster because the mod sets "I already looted this" flag on objects and checks that first so it doesn't repeat work. I don't know why you think this is slow other than having the most insanely unrealistic expectations imaginable.
Quick tips if you are confused like I was lol
By default, this mod should auto loot, hack and unlock stuff within a radius while your scanner is open. For some reason, it wasn't doing anything at first.. might be when I loaded it, not sure, but after forcing a scan snf setting my settings, it works great! It is controlled through the console.
I wanted it to simply save my poor 'E' key from wearing out (and the tedium of hunting down containers...) - in other words, loot everything to my inventory that is nearby. I did not want doors or terminals unlocked since This is often part of a story or mission. I use the universal stash with huge carry weight on me, so sending things to the ship makes no sense for my playstyle at present.
This sets a 25(m?) scan radius, give it 90 seconds to complete (1.5 minutes - sometimes there are a LOT of bodies lol). Disabled ship sending, turn on looting to inventory for everything, enabled looting contraband, disables unlocking doors or terminals.
Just run in console and it will persist (Note the settings after the gap are the defaults just in case they got scrambled)
cgf "LSSL:Interface.SetFloatControl" "ScanRadius" 25.0
cgf "LSSL:Interface.SetFloatControl" "ScanTimeout" 90.0
cgf "LSSL:Interface.SetAllFiltersByAction" "ToShip" false
cgf "LSSL:Interface.SetAllFiltersByAction" "Loot" true
cgf "LSSL:Interface.SetAllFiltersByAction" "Smuggle" true
cgf "LSSL:Interface.SetFilter" "Doors" false
cgf "LSSL:Interface.SetFilter" "Terminals" false
cgf "LSSL:Interface.SetBoolControl" "NotifyOnComplete" true
cgf "LSSL:Interface.SetBoolControl" "ClearOwnership" false
cgf "LSSL:Interface.SetBoolControl" "AllowStealing" false
cgf "LSSL:Interface.SetBoolControl" "AutoScan" true
cgf "LSSL:Interface.SetBoolControl" "HandScannerOnly" true
cgf "LSSL:Interface.SetBoolControl" "PauseScan" false
Finally, to kick off a scan, run the command
cgf "LSSL:Interface.TryScanNow" false true
It seems after doing this, it starting working. I'm still not sure how you trigger a scan when auto mode is off; nor am I sure if scanning stops when you close the scanner - need to check or ask. Will update when I know.
UPDATE: Because the looting process is fairly time consuming, I'm leaning toward only triggering it using a hotkey and waiting for it to finish. Especially since I likes to steal 😈.
Will be interested to see how this changes gameplay when I don't have to spend so much time tapping e lol
Do you mean right at the start of the game (before getting access to the Frontier) or to a more established save game? I thought I fixed the former, the latter would be a bug.
I'm still not sure how you trigger a scan when auto mode is off
You setup a Hotkey to run the console command to start a scan. Thankfully Console Hotkeys is not an extra mod per-say, just vanilla functionality that needs to be enabled.
Because the looting process is fairly time consuming
Depends on how greedy you are, you thieving space hobo.
Will be interested to see how this changes gameplay
ermagurd - I got sick of that hacking/picking mini game and hitboxes on mining nodes being so friggen wonky - it makes the game playable depending on the type of annoyance you are looting to bypass.
I suggest renaming it to the friggin Inception mod 😊
I LOVE the explosions and sheer chaos when looting outposts, it reminds me of the scene from inception where the city explodes around Ariadne. So freaking cool.
Thanks soo much!
Inception: Ariadne's Lesson (City Explosion Scene) [HD] Starting at 0:53
(Jump ahead to 0:53 - couldn't find a shorter clip and can't embed with start time)
Not that it might be a good default setting, but it could be fun ")
I enjoy the big explosions of the barrels and stuff, and I suspect that started about the time the mod turned on flora looting. I'm not sure, but I wouldn't be surprised to see that was when that issue appeared.
The purge of invisible items fix seems to have helped the performance. No longer two seconds of stutter when looting over 1k items.
Right now, I can only think of a Missable Item Looting. Right now it seems like some of the journals from the Kryx Legacy quest fall into non-lootable space during the docking and combat motion. They are unique and only exist in that single zone. Not sure how this would be done, maybe a recognition of other items in the zone that are unique to trigger a count of the items? or a quest list?
First of all, the mod is wonderful.
But I have a little problem and hope you can help me.
I have all the loot options on and every time I enter a settlement or building and turn on the scanner, it not only loots the items but also causes the explosive barrels etc. to explode.
Do I have to set a loot option to off so that this doesn't happen?
other then that the mod works great... just need to figure out how to get rid of that annoying noise.. again im not sure if its something to do with this mod or if its just part of the orignial game any info would be helpful thx
For now, you will just have to live with it, or temporarily mute the game audio while looting around mining nodes.
Come January I will have more time to look into things like this but along with invisible bodies [insert old man muttering and cursing sounds here] - it's one of those "minor inconveniences" we all just have to live with for now.
If not before, when the Starfield Creation Kit (SFCK) comes out hopefully I will be able to completely replicate the effect for mining without the sound but as of writing this I have not yet figured out how to do so correctly.