I have long been wanting a mod that does what this one does. The expansion on the vanilla system is well done, without bloating a ton of new ingredients. The system building on what is shown on the Alchemy table adds a lot of immersion value and feels like ALCHEMY, not CHEMISTRY, as many others seem to move to. I am currently running this with a Requiem play-through and it fits well in my mod list. Great work!
I ADORE what you came up with, but some of the features in how it works are a bit of a dealbreaker particularly in terms of compatibility; however it has similarities with another alchemy mod that I feel does something this one could also use.
"external" perk system.
Alchemy Redone is pretty similar in its features (breaking down ingredients and refining your supplies; adding standard mixtures that don't need perk investment; etc), but handles its progression (which seems to take the form of "perks" earned through reading notes at X alchemy level, with new ones becoming readable as you level up and unlocking new recipes, intermediate products, and processes) without touching the Alchemy perk tree. This allows it to be used with other mods without incident... I used it even with Vokriinator Black and CACO combined - without compatibility issues.
This approach might seriously benefit you and be worth your consideration; it opens a lot of doors as far as options.
I second this, I have a rule with mods touching perk trees outside of...well perk tree mods, in that I don't really use them for free of breaking something. So I'll definitely keep my eye on this mod if it ever decides to move away from the perk tree. It definitely looks like a good mod.
I second removing the Perk Tree. Why don't you add perks like Campfire does or something? Then there are no conflicts with SO MANY other mods that alter perk trees.
how's the compatibility with mods that add more diseases? I like the idea of several different disease curing potions but I'm worried that they won't be able to work on mod-added illnesses
It's still possible, though more difficult, to make a cure-all potion in this mod and that would still work normally. The more specific cure potions have a fixed list of what diseases they cure so they would need a patch to extend to new diseases
If you're thinking of a specific mod and it just adds a few more diseases I can probably make it for you quickly. If you do want to know how to do it yourself:
-The specific cures run a script that dispels a list of diseases on the player. -All 4 use the same script just with the properties pointing at different diseases. I've included the script sources in the mod so look at "ari_magescript.psc" -To add another disease, you would edit that script to include another property ("dis3 for example") and call the dispel function on that new property under the OnInit event. Then point that new property at the new disease. Probably easiest to do in the Creation Kit
Maybe you could consider making the disease add-on optional through a FOMOD installation? I think this is freezing my game because I also use Diseased Remastered.
After having done some more extensive playtesting in my own playthrough, I'm putting up a new version of this mod today that greatly overhauls its original direction:
-Working combinations were too difficult to find in the original mod, so now every refined ingredient has at least two properties.
-The brewer perk is no longer necessary to make recipes, it simply teaches a batch of recipes not found elsewhere. That means the new perk tree is no longer integral to the mod and any of the common perk mods can be used by simply loading it after this mod. No patches necessary now.
-The xp from recipe books has been buffed and may be buffed more in the future.
There is still more I need to do for this new version of the mod. Ingredient values and weights need tweaking, the AE ingredients need to be implemented, etc, but this covers the major changes I wanted to make.
This mod has me so excited. I can't believe I have never heard of it. Someone mentioned it on Diseased Revamped and now, I can't wait to try it!
Are you still working on it? Have you thought of adding a component that lets you break down and study potions already made in the game to learn their recipes?
I want to use this with Vokriinator (Black or regular). Is there an xedit plugin I can use to make the patch or will I need to go through the creation kit?
Not just yet. I took some time to actually play a bunch of Skyrim recently and that gave me the chance to playtest this more thoroughly. I'm currently going back and making some major balancing changes as well as making CC and hunterborn patches
I'm having a very strange bug and don't know what's causing it. Basically the whole Alchemy tree is broken (screenshot here), and can't navigate trough it. I'm using Vokrii and have both the main file and the patch. Thanks.
Hm, you're absolutely right, the version of the patch that was uploaded was super broken. Sorry about that, I've just uploaded fresh versions of all 3 perk mod patches to hopefully fix that issue. Let me know if its still giving you problems.
I really love the idea behind this mod (Spell Research for Alchemy!), but having a lot of conflicts with Apothecary is unfortunate. I'm thinking of delving into xEdit to try my hand at some advanced conflict resolution though, to see if I can get them working together. Anything big I should keep in mind?
Getting them to work together isn't necessarily the problem, its that this mod already does a lot of what apothecary does. They both alter the ingredients, the alchemy magic effects, and the base potions. Whichever one you load later will win all the conflicts. If you load this second, apothecary is basically redundant. If you load apothecary second, you'll have the crafting systems this adds but you'll still have all the regular ingredients with 4 effects, which wouldn't make much sense. I guess I'm not sure what your goal is by trying to deconflict them.
One other thing, in theory you should be able to use the food and drink add-on for apothecary on its own alongside this mod. I haven't tried it myself so there might be some minor overlap conflicts.
Honestly the concern to me is less about Apothecary itself and more on keeping it included in my modlist for other mods that have it as a dependency, not to mention it currently has more support for things like CC and Hunterborn, which I also use. But if I can implement some changes that make your system tie in with some Apothecary changes, that might work as well. Definitely looking forward to any patches you bring out for AE or Hunterborn though, as I think compatibility patches go a long way to making an overhaul like this attractive to the average modder. Don't get discouraged by an initial tepid reaction, I think this is a great idea and has a lot of potential, not to mention expanding what many find attractive about Spell Research to other areas of Skyrim.
I see, in that case I would load both mods in xEdit and look for records that apothecary changes and this mod doesn't. In particular, this mod leaves some of the magic effects untouched. If apothecary changes the magnitudes of vanilla effects that I didn't change then it could throw off the balance of this mod so you would want to either remove the record from apothecary or just add an ITM to this one (the latter might be the safest option.)
(Edit: and if it wasn't obvious I'm assuming you're loading this mod after apothecary)
And yeah a Hunterborn patch will be coming at some point, probably even before the AE patch cause hunting and survivalism is a big part of how I play the game.
55 comments
"external" perk system.
Alchemy Redone is pretty similar in its features (breaking down ingredients and refining your supplies; adding standard mixtures that don't need perk investment; etc), but handles its progression (which seems to take the form of "perks" earned through reading notes at X alchemy level, with new ones becoming readable as you level up and unlocking new recipes, intermediate products, and processes) without touching the Alchemy perk tree. This allows it to be used with other mods without incident... I used it even with Vokriinator Black and CACO combined - without compatibility issues.
This approach might seriously benefit you and be worth your consideration; it opens a lot of doors as far as options.
Also WarTherapy you forgot the : in your link, try this.
-The specific cures run a script that dispels a list of diseases on the player.
-All 4 use the same script just with the properties pointing at different diseases. I've included the script sources in the mod so look at "ari_magescript.psc"
-To add another disease, you would edit that script to include another property ("dis3 for example") and call the dispel function on that new property under the OnInit event. Then point that new property at the new disease. Probably easiest to do in the Creation Kit
-Working combinations were too difficult to find in the original mod, so now every refined ingredient has at least two properties.
-The brewer perk is no longer necessary to make recipes, it simply teaches a batch of recipes not found elsewhere. That means the new perk tree is no longer integral to the mod and any of the common perk mods can be used by simply loading it after this mod. No patches necessary now.
-The xp from recipe books has been buffed and may be buffed more in the future.
There is still more I need to do for this new version of the mod. Ingredient values and weights need tweaking, the AE ingredients need to be implemented, etc, but this covers the major changes I wanted to make.
Are you still working on it? Have you thought of adding a component that lets you break down and study potions already made in the game to learn their recipes?
One other thing, in theory you should be able to use the food and drink add-on for apothecary on its own alongside this mod. I haven't tried it myself so there might be some minor overlap conflicts.
Definitely looking forward to any patches you bring out for AE or Hunterborn though, as I think compatibility patches go a long way to making an overhaul like this attractive to the average modder. Don't get discouraged by an initial tepid reaction, I think this is a great idea and has a lot of potential, not to mention expanding what many find attractive about Spell Research to other areas of Skyrim.
(Edit: and if it wasn't obvious I'm assuming you're loading this mod after apothecary)
And yeah a Hunterborn patch will be coming at some point, probably even before the AE patch cause hunting and survivalism is a big part of how I play the game.