I assume it would be safe to move the changes from Lalup's NPC replacer to your patch instead of making yet another patch to incorporate the NPC changes.
Note that this detailed report contains some spoilers like quest titles, objectives, and names.
I really, wanted to play the Extended Cut but only found out it existed after I'd played with the base Saints and Seducers installed on a very high-level, 100+ hours save. After a bit of reading up and thinking, I reasoned if I could get the DLC to belive it hadn't automatically initialized itself yet, we might be able use that behavior to get a clean start for the Extended Cut without a New Game. I've written step by step account of this experiment and its results. In summary, it largely worked and did not have the dialog topic problem, but several quest activators were missing and required console commands to pass.
NOTE: This was an experiment. If you start with precisely the same conditions, and take precisely the same actions, you're likely to get the same results. If your quest progress for Mind of Madness and Saint and Seducers is not identical to where I began this experiment, or if you have wildly game-changing mods, then predicting what might happen with that save is not realistic. That said, if you have the know-how and don't mind a little rocket surgery, feel free to conduct your own experiments, find out, and share your results.
INITIAL SETUP: - I had vanilla Saints and Seducers installed on Skyrim SE 1.5.97.0.8. - I also had Staff of Sheogoratth, Shadowrend, and Ruins' Edge installed. - Extended Cut and this Quest Patch were NOT INSTALLED yet. - I had the ReSaver and LOOT utilities installed and ready to use. - I had received the note for the vanilla quest from an innkeeper. - I had not yet read the vanilla note. - I also had not cleared the base Skyrim SE Mind of Madness quest. (Extended Cut uses it as a prerequisite instead of the note.)
I loaded my latest existing save file.
I saved to a new, separate file, leaving the previous save as backup in case the experiment failed and I had to change things back.
I exited Skyrim SE fully to the desktop.
I opened the most recent save in ReSaver.
In ReSaver, I filtered the objects shown by selecting the mod's filename, ccbgssse025-advsgs.esm, in the listbox at the top. (The listbox is beside the "Clear Filters" button.)
I deleted all changeforms and script instances that were listed with that filter active.
I saved the modified file under a new name, and exited ReSaver. (All I did was change the number at the end from a 1 to a 2.)
I installed and enabled Extended Cut, all its optional patches for Community Content items, and this Quest Patch.
I sorted my mod list with LOOT.
I launched Skyrim SE and loaded the modified save file. (It loaded successfully. The game ran without any apparent difference.)
I saved to a new file. (I then peeked at it in ReSaver. There were different scripts and changeforms under ccbgssse025-advsgs.esm, which meant the mod had reinitialized itself, under the Extended Cut!)
I tested unlocking, and then playing Saints and Seducers, starting with completing the Mind of Madness quest.
The problems I encountered appeared to largely be due to missing activators.
After the quake signaling the start of the Extended Cut questline, the activator for the sewer cover never spawned in Solitude. I had to use the console to coc ccBGSSSE025RootDungeon.
Everything from the Sewers through reaching the Doors worked without issue.
For the The Roots of Madness, only some objectives would register completion. Burning the Grove and burning the Lab worked. Framing the Priests also worked. Neither obtaining a Soul Tomato nor framing the Apostles would complete without console commands. Lastly, retrieving Nerveshatter never show as a cleared objective, but apparently the questgiver's dialog only checks if you possess the weapon, as I was still able to progress to the final confrontation..
The climactic battle worked properly, except Thoron was missing his weapon and hilariously decided to attack with his fists at the end.
Accidentally speaking to Thoron as he was dying caused the scripted sequence to break and remain whited out after the questline was complete. It's going to take a while to reach Lv20 on a completely new game to see if this still happens under normal conditions.
Overall, this was a largely playable result, without weird consequences for the rest of the game. I hope this encourages further experimentation and helps lead to a reliable way to add the Extended Cut for players who had it installed, but have not begun that vanilla content yet.
I recently found out I had made two mistakes: - The lack of a functioning sewer entrance was due to a conflict with the Community Content Thief Hideouts mod. I did not have the appropriate patch which explicitly states it works for both vanilla and the Extended Cut. - I needed to rebuild my Bashed Patch after activating the Extended Cut and its related mods
I will retest at a later time with the Thief Hideouts patch and a Bashed Patch rebuild as part of step 8.
You're my hero. Since I tried both at the same time, I don't know if it was your patch or if it was your walkthrough in the articles but you got me through the Isle of Madness.
I see no reason why it wouldn't be. All that changed was some of Staada's skill levels and an outfit entry related to her helmet or something. Nothing that affects actual behavior.
I haven't installed the Extended Cut mod yet because I'm waiting until I start a new game. What I want to know is, how do I know if any mod I already have affects Thoron, so I will know if I need to add this patch. If I don't have a mod that affects him, I don't want to add a patch I really don't need. Is there a list anywhere that shows what mods affect Thoron?
There's not really an exhaustive list. You'd just need to check Thoron's NPC record in xEdit to know for certain. The entire reason this became an issue is because no one expected anyone else to edit Thoron, or for a conflicting edit to break the entire quest. It blindsided a ton of people, myself included. Power of Creation is the only one I know of, but that's just because it's the land mine I happened to step on. Anything that edits his appearance, inventory, or stats is fair game, and many mods that do that are likely to have a broad range of changes (like an item overhaul, for some reason). It's worth noting that this patch is a hard override intended to prevent unknown or overlooked edits from breaking the quest. Mods that are made for Extended Cut specifically are exempt, since they're already forwarding the necessary edits. Check and make sure there isn't an Extended Cut patch for whatever mods you use that edit Saints and Seducers already, and if you aren't confident after that then install this if you really, really want to make sure your quest won't break.
If it helps, I think I saw at least one person mention Morrowloot as well. I use OWL in my current playthrough, but ML Ultimate does have an AE patch so it checks out. A lot of people have the issue, but not a lot of people seem to be actually checking for what the conflict is. It's annoying, because I'd provide a list of mods that definitively cause the issue if I knew, but I'd feel pretty stupid just listing the one, especially because I feel it might mislead people and make them feel like it's only one or two mods causing it when there could well be others.
I also have installed MLU and have conflict with Saind and Seducer - Extended Cut. Thornton appear in sewer without any armor, only in helmet. And he try go throw the wall. Thanks for this fix.
I have the same issue. Thoron, non hostile, staring at a wall in the sewers. I wonder if i just leave him there and continue with the quest if he will appear in a different spot later on in the quest. I dont know because ive never played the extended cut quest before.
Sorry, haven't played Skyrim in a minute. The only thing the new version changed were some of Staada's records. None of the quest records were affected as far as I can tell. That said, I updated it anyway, so everything should line up now.
absolute biggest mistake by those devs was straight up changing the original questline... the simplest solution would be for this to be a continuation of that questline with brand new characters. what makes it worse is the devs don't do anything to remediate this issue because you know everyone who ever mods skyrim only has this one single mod and no other mods that may or may not conflict with things. surprise pikachu face.
Is it really not possible to add the Extended cut mid playthrough? i know the mod page says it requires a new game, but i was wondering if some console commands wouldn't be able to circumvent this.. i have a long playthrough that i really cannot start over and i would really like to be able to enjoy the extended cut still :(
You're probably gonna have to start over, no other choice. Mod your game as much as possible before playing, check that you have everything you want such as maps, quests, character creation, weapons, armours, weathers, landscapes etc. before starting a new game so you won't have to start over everytime. I've been modding my Skyrim non-stop for over 3 months now lol, still haven't made a proper playthrough yet (only did tests to see if everything works properly) but I'll do so once I have everything I could possibly want in the game.
As far as I've seen while testing some mods in an older save, they planted a big fat blocking code into the mod that tells you in every conversation with everyone you meet that the mod is disabled if not started with a new save.
So, yeah, without modding that part (the blocking code) out of the mod, you can't play it on an existing save.
24 comments
I really, wanted to play the Extended Cut but only found out it existed after I'd played with the base Saints and Seducers installed on a very high-level, 100+ hours save. After a bit of reading up and thinking, I reasoned if I could get the DLC to belive it hadn't automatically initialized itself yet, we might be able use that behavior to get a clean start for the Extended Cut without a New Game. I've written step by step account of this experiment and its results. In summary, it largely worked and did not have the dialog topic problem, but several quest activators were missing and required console commands to pass.
NOTE: This was an experiment. If you start with precisely the same conditions, and take precisely the same actions, you're likely to get the same results. If your quest progress for Mind of Madness and Saint and Seducers is not identical to where I began this experiment, or if you have wildly game-changing mods, then predicting what might happen with that save is not realistic. That said, if you have the know-how and don't mind a little rocket surgery, feel free to conduct your own experiments, find out, and share your results.
INITIAL SETUP:
- I had vanilla Saints and Seducers installed on Skyrim SE 1.5.97.0.8.
- I also had Staff of Sheogoratth, Shadowrend, and Ruins' Edge installed.
- Extended Cut and this Quest Patch were NOT INSTALLED yet.
- I had the ReSaver and LOOT utilities installed and ready to use.
- I had received the note for the vanilla quest from an innkeeper.
- I had not yet read the vanilla note.
- I also had not cleared the base Skyrim SE Mind of Madness quest. (Extended Cut uses it as a prerequisite instead of the note.)
The problems I encountered appeared to largely be due to missing activators.
Overall, this was a largely playable result, without weird consequences for the rest of the game. I hope this encourages further experimentation and helps lead to a reliable way to add the Extended Cut for players who had it installed, but have not begun that vanilla content yet.
- The lack of a functioning sewer entrance was due to a conflict with the Community Content Thief Hideouts mod. I did not have the appropriate patch which explicitly states it works for both vanilla and the Extended Cut.
- I needed to rebuild my Bashed Patch after activating the Extended Cut and its related mods
I will retest at a later time with the Thief Hideouts patch and a Bashed Patch rebuild as part of step 8.
Power of Creation is the only one I know of, but that's just because it's the land mine I happened to step on. Anything that edits his appearance, inventory, or stats is fair game, and many mods that do that are likely to have a broad range of changes (like an item overhaul, for some reason).
It's worth noting that this patch is a hard override intended to prevent unknown or overlooked edits from breaking the quest. Mods that are made for Extended Cut specifically are exempt, since they're already forwarding the necessary edits. Check and make sure there isn't an Extended Cut patch for whatever mods you use that edit Saints and Seducers already, and if you aren't confident after that then install this if you really, really want to make sure your quest won't break.
A lot of people have the issue, but not a lot of people seem to be actually checking for what the conflict is. It's annoying, because I'd provide a list of mods that definitively cause the issue if I knew, but I'd feel pretty stupid just listing the one, especially because I feel it might mislead people and make them feel like it's only one or two mods causing it when there could well be others.
So, would I still need this for 1.0.0.6? Since we have the damn notice screaming how it's not a malicious file, this is a fair question.
The only thing the new version changed were some of Staada's records. None of the quest records were affected as far as I can tell.
That said, I updated it anyway, so everything should line up now.
So, yeah, without modding that part (the blocking code) out of the mod, you can't play it on an existing save.